Get aggro man!

OldGamerESO

I run 2-3 dungeons a day on my tanks using the group finder. A common theme is being berated for not "getting aggro" in trash packs. For example in Wayrest Sewers II last night it was a real mess. The trash pacts are large and spread out and no one was interested in me doing a line-of-sight pulls... they just ran ahead of me and had this free for all with no grouping. Elden Hollow was even worse because there are a few extremely large rooms with a lot of ranged enemies. Normally I would LOS pull those rooms back to the group, but NO ONE would listen to me. I did the best I could (I was on a Mag Sorc Tank) to aggro everything in the room with either a ranged taunt or melee taunt, starting with any hard hitting things first, just as I always do. But throughout the dungeon I was berated for being a terrible tank and told to "stop standing there doing nothing" or "why aren't you taunting" which is bewildering because I was running Tremor Scale and Restraining Prison and I can very well see that I am applying aggro. But really... trash packs? I of course do the best I can in trash packs, but when I run a DPS I never expect the tank to "save" me from trash, much of which I could solo myself anyway. Do any of you run into similar complaints from random groups regarding their expectations of aggro in trash packs? If you are a DPS what do you expect from your tank?

Fvh09NL

On my tank I, mostly, only taunt the larger adds which will wipe some dd's, imo that should always do. On my dd I expect a tank to do just that, taunt the ones that really hit hard and a lot of times CC you. But if the tank doesn't in trash packs I don't mind that much actually, as long as you can keep aggro on the bosses and stay alive I think a tank does fine.

They were probably just really bad dd's that couldn't stay out of stupid

Turelus

PUG's are not meant to be highly efficient and organised groups.

If you want those you need to play with other players who you know or are on board for that and will run tactics or knowing fully how to work with others (as you don't know their builds/tactics/expectations).

If you want those things you need to play with friends or guild members who you can slowly form a team which knows one another well enough to do such things.

Generally go into a PUG expecting a casual, slow and average run, ignore morons who smack, clear the dungeon, go home.

OrphanHelgen

I usually run in first as well, but then I don't complain about aggro either.
If there is a large mob pack, I suggest start with taunting the melee guys first, then root the rest and chain in the range.
When you root them, they do reduced dmg. If people stack on you, you can use circle of protection as well. Large mob packs shouldn't be any problem since it's usually only a few mobs that are actually a danger to your dd's.

Wir2ality

yeah i run in and pierce armor as many as poss just keep the damage away from ur team at what ever cost. talons help too if u play dk. sadly i only get kicked for bein too low lvl or on super bosses .
when tank dies everything dies

Silver_Strider

I love those DPS that blame everyone else for them dying.

"You suck tank, why didn't you get aggro?" vs vDirefrost final boss

"F***ing healer, why didn't you heal me?"
Dead in 3 different AoE circles.

My ignore list needs a buff.

Magdalina

A lot of the dps don't actually understand how tanking works. Like, at all. It's my first mmo and when I started I didn't undertand either, stuff like "there's no aoe taunt"(wut is taunt? Wut is aoe? ) meant nothing to me back then. I didn't try tanking til much later so to me tanks stayed some mystical beings that are somehow able to keep the danger off you, but they cannot always do it and they cannot do it with every mob if there's an lot of them, I noted that much down. It was much later that I actually found out what taunt even is and how it works and all lol.

I think a lot of people just get that first part down - "mythical creature supposed to keep danger off everyone else". Then when they get hit by untaunted mob in a pack of 20, then complain. When they get hit by a boss that's untauntable because mechanics, they complain. When they stand in red and die to it...yes, they also complain because tank didn't take this danger away from them lol. They simply don't understand that even though there is a tank and healer they STILL need to look out for themselves and it's impossible(in most fights, anyway) even for a good tank and healer to prevent them from ever getting damage. We really need an in depth tutorial of sorts teaching people to block, shield, dodge and do other good stuff while doing damage in dungeons. While we don't have one...just laugh at them, they'll either learn eventually or they never will and then hf to them with actually challenging content like dlc dungeons/vDSA/vMA/trials etc.

NeillMcAttack

So you pugged on a tank, as an ACTUAL tank and people still complained! I swear I'd have just left as soon as they started barking. Screw that noise!

Nestor

I have said it before and I will say it again, if you want a good dungeon experience, don't use the Group Finder.

Dungeon Finder Pugs are not always bad, but typically are populated with people in afterburner mode who want to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible. Tanks need to set the pace for the dungeon, sometimes just to regen, but to scope out the mobs and get the ones pulled that need to be aggro'd before the DPS come with the band and boom. If they don't want to listen to you, then leave the group. Your the tank, you will find another one. They are the DPS that is desperate for a Tank.

Autolycus

Nestor wrote: »

I have said it before and I will say it again, if you want a good dungeon experience, don't use the Group Finder.

Dungeon Finder Pugs are not always bad, but typically are populated with people in afterburner mode who want to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible. Tanks need to set the pace for the dungeon, sometimes just to regen, but to scope out the mobs and get the ones pulled that need to be aggro'd before the DPS come with the band and boom. If they don't want to listen to you, then leave the group. Your the tank, you will find another one. They are the DPS that is desperate for a Tank.

That's what makes the whole thing so.... funny? For lack of a better word, I guess that will suffice.

We see day after day on the forums people continually posting about how it's so hard to find a tank via GF, or about how the tank will leave after a short time due to things like having low CP in group, or catching grief, etc. That certainly does happen, I won't deny that. But as someone who basically just tanks, and who actually enjoys pugging into dungeons and helping out others who aren't the most geared or experienced players, the one thing I simply cannot stand and have nerdraged over is how utterly disrespectful people can be to tanks.

I once spent an hour very patiently teaching a low-level group how to fight the Planar Inhibitor... you know, how to do the leet strats without the dps to just burn her down. And lemme tell ya... I sincerely regretted having helped that group. All that time invested and one of the dps (who was obviously doing many things wrong after me explaining it a dozen times, it's not hard to spot) had the nerve to blame me for all of his mistakes. Well... okay then. Cya!

It happens a lot actually... people have the nerve to pin their own shortfalls on the tank (or healer) because their ego won't allow them to recognize and learn from their mistakes. Some people (because I've had really good pug runs too) don't even realize how lucky they are to have someone who knows what they're doing and is willing to spend the time on them (for no reason other than to help, like for me the last thing I need is more keys or achievements) until they go into a group with a "tank" doing nothing but cleaving without any taunts even.

I think it's respectable to start a forum thread to make sure you aren't doing something wrong @OldGamerESO . That's called due diligence. Every good tank has to get bombarded by criticisms or to get completely rekt by a boss every once in awhile to keep them humble. The more experience you get, the easier it is for you to recognize when the fault is not your own. You can just as easily make the counterargument that their dps is too low because that trash is even still alive, but that wouldn't be productive either, would it? Or perhaps their problem is that they standing in fire for 5 straight seconds, and dps is low because they are dead. There is no skill in the game that taunts the stupid out of people, just mobs, unfortunately.

You'll be alright. It sounds like you're doing okay. We have room to improve and clean up our builds and rotation, and we all have something still to learn. Keep double-checking yourself and identifying where your inefficiencies are at, and you'll eventually be able to keep stupid people alive too. Well, from most things, at least.

PokeMaule

So many flash backs with this post. As one of the comments said this was also my 1st MMO ever and the same thing taunting, trash, pulling and all that fun stuff. I didn't have a clue but built a tank anyway as my 1st toon. I had a nightmare to start with but soon picked up the ropes and got regular players and 6 months later I have tanked successfully all Vet 4 man dungeons and led a few raids on normal trials all in all I consider myself a good tank.
Anyone I run with new or not to playing with me gets told what is coming if they know it or not i.e. "remember guys this boss is un-tauntable" or "you guys go to the left and kill those archers while i group the rest" I picked up very quickly that if you don't take charge they will run all over you.
I still PUG it occasionally and same thing applies no matter their CP.

Lastly a favourite little trick of mine this works on both PUGs and my friends if they are getting cocky and Stam Sorcing their asses through dungeons faster than I can keep up. Simple answer (I DON'T) just stand at the exit of one room and watch those health bars disappear. They soon learn either wait or F off I'm the tank you will follow my lead haha.

Wow reading that I sound like a right d1ck but I'm actually a very chilled and nice person (insert crazy laughter)

Flameheart

OldGamerESO wrote: »

I run 2-3 dungeons a day on my tanks using the group finder. A common theme is being berated for not "getting aggro" in trash packs. For example in Wayrest Sewers II last night it was a real mess. The trash pacts are large and spread out and no one was interested in me doing a line-of-sight pulls... they just ran ahead of me and had this free for all with no grouping. Elden Hollow was even worse because there are a few extremely large rooms with a lot of ranged enemies. Normally I would LOS pull those rooms back to the group, but NO ONE would listen to me. I did the best I could (I was on a Mag Sorc Tank) to aggro everything in the room with either a ranged taunt or melee taunt, starting with any hard hitting things first, just as I always do. But throughout the dungeon I was berated for being a terrible tank and told to "stop standing there doing nothing" or "why aren't you taunting" which is bewildering because I was running Tremor Scale and Restraining Prison and I can very well see that I am applying aggro. But really... trash packs? I of course do the best I can in trash packs, but when I run a DPS I never expect the tank to "save" me from trash, much of which I could solo myself anyway. Do any of you run into similar complaints from random groups regarding their expectations of aggro in trash packs? If you are a DPS what do you expect from your tank?

I use all my 4 magicka-build chars occasionally as a tank in PUGs to get my slayer achievements done. I know what you mean. I don't taunt all adds, but I try to taunt a lot (I have the ressources for that). Usually I try to get initial aggro by using an AoE, the rest does a taunt here and there and Swarm Mother or chains as a DK. If you aren't a DK I would advise Swarm Mother even as meta in 4-men-content for trash groups. For bosses take Bloodspawn for ultimate regeneration in 4-man-content. Swarm Mother even pulls mobs you can't pull with chains.
I still try to pile the trash to a nice bulk, so that the DDs can AoE them down nicely. You should pile up at least the melees and then don't move as a tank, there is Swarm Mother or chains and a ranged taunt for archers and casters. The first thing a DD will do is placing a ground DoT (Eruption, spear shard, liquid lightning, Path) where the tank stands and piles up adds. Moving the mobs out of AoE is not clever. When playing DD I f... hate "Ritalin-tanks".

This won't help much for the following experiences:

Stage 0: Players running ahead without letting the tank grab initial aggro.
Stage 1: The DDs lack any AoE dps capability. Instead of AoEing them down (usually within seconds even as a low CP if well build), the trash packs live an eternity. Sadly you can't find any ground dots for synergizing because DDs don't use them...You watch a bow/bow build running like a chicken all over the place from one(!) mob, because he did damage only this one.
Stage 2a: As stage 1 but the healer thinks his role is ...well healing and nothing else, no bubbles, no shards, no repetance, nothing. No meta build tank - so even with prismatic enchants - will have the ressources to tank AND taunt a 10-mob trash pack for longer than 1 minute without any support. As no ground dots to synergize -> no ressources for you as a tank from them and no additional dps from the synergy. With synergies, Blazing Shield, own shards and Solar Barrage I am able to achieve with my Templar tank up to 20k dps in trash groups and this even with a heavy support build, but it's no fun to read in Combat Metrix that you as the tank did almost 50% of the group dps...As a measure for DDs...20k AoE dps is nothing I would post into the group chat but only to make myself ridiculous. Serious AoE dps starts at 50k+ dps...
- Stage 2b: As stage 1, but your DDs and the healer think it's a clever idea to stand on 28m range relative to the trashmobs in a perfect triangle and pull the mobs all over the place.
- Stage 3 of Stupidness: Healer and DDs have never heard anything about blocking and shielding.
- Stage 4 (happened really, but just once): You read in group chat "we won't make it because tank does too less dps!"...

Best solution so far for me at stage 2 already: Faking a disconnect.

Rolo42

It's not a perfect world.

But all is not unworkable.

Your best guard against this problem is to keep ahead of everyone else. When I first started tanking, I quickly understood why tanks I've pugged with were always in a hurry; it was for this very reason.

Not giving anyone a chance to pull before you do is the only way to guarantee this won't happen. This may affect your build since you can't rely on any recovery time in between fights.


Other ways to approach this problem:

You can try to correct winsomely.

Enlist the healer's help since it's his problem also.
As a healer, I'll state--when it's an issue--that I won't heal anyone standing in avoidable red zones or any non-tank who insists on pulling mobs and ignoring the tank. I'll also remind everyone to run towards the group or to me if they're in trouble; I can't heal (or pull) out-of-range.

Make a macro that states your expectations and asking for questions or if everyone understands.

When things get rough, state that this is the reason why the community lacks tanks (it killed my wife's interest in tanking and grouping years ago, so now she doesn't open herself to that kind of rudeness--understandable since this is supposed to be fun).

subtlezeroub17_ESO

I'd tank more if we could have double specs. That's the main reason why I can't bring myself to go full tank.

Back in WoW, I had no problem occasionally tanking lfg dungeons on my druid. But in eso, tanking or even healing is an all in thing and that's a turn off.


On another note, I've noticed that many times, the difference between a decent tank and an amazing tank is one that can keep control on mobs in this game. Often times, I see DK and sorc tanks not using their cc when the cc they offer is so precious.

Xvorg

Nestor wrote: »

I have said it before and I will say it again, if you want a good dungeon experience, don't use the Group Finder.

Dungeon Finder Pugs are not always bad, but typically are populated with people in afterburner mode who want to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible. Tanks need to set the pace for the dungeon, sometimes just to regen, but to scope out the mobs and get the ones pulled that need to be aggro'd before the DPS come with the band and boom. If they don't want to listen to you, then leave the group. Your the tank, you will find another one. They are the DPS that is desperate for a Tank.

Moar than XP, I'll just go for age groups...

Here are the +25 Y/O players and there, in that far, far corner are the kids

subtlezeroub17_ESO

Xvorg wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I have said it before and I will say it again, if you want a good dungeon experience, don't use the Group Finder.

Dungeon Finder Pugs are not always bad, but typically are populated with people in afterburner mode who want to get through the dungeon as quickly as possible. Tanks need to set the pace for the dungeon, sometimes just to regen, but to scope out the mobs and get the ones pulled that need to be aggro'd before the DPS come with the band and boom. If they don't want to listen to you, then leave the group. Your the tank, you will find another one. They are the DPS that is desperate for a Tank.

Moar than XP, I'll just go for age groups...

Here are the +25 Y/O players and there, in that far, far corner are the kids

Not always true. As a 23 yo, I've met quite a lot of terrible man children in my day. At the same time, I've met very mature and level headed 16-17 yo players.

Back when I was teenager, I was one of those mature and level headed gamers. So it's a bit unfair to blanket a whole entire age group off stereotypes.