PvE Stamina Nightblade after Morrowind Patch

Shardaxx

Thanks for the very informative post. As a stamblade I'm fearing the worst from the morrowind update but I'll see how it plays on the day, plenty of new solo quests to do and get a good feel for how its affected my character.

Just a point on the vid example, if you drop everything out of adding damage and put it into resource management, then presumably every fight will last longer, so it might be counterproductive. Higher damage = shorter fights = less resources required. But we'll see how it plays out. If NBs truly have been nerfed too severely, I'm sure they will get a buff down the line.

Izaki

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hrolfkel wrote: »

Don't see why peeps crying about Stamblabes need. NBs Will be OP this patch tested my stamblade I can get 20k single target with my build off light attacks alone. Weaving in skills I can hit 28 - 30k single target and it barely puts a dent in my stam

I see that you, I, and soon to be Alcast are the few who seem to think that NBs as a whole will be doing pretty well for PVE this patch. I am glad I am not alone. People will be proved wrong with numbers once it goes live. Don't forget that Nightblades will have the highest uptime by far for the new trials set which will be buffing 2 other dps also.

What buff did the StamNB get that every other class did not? Grim Focus and Cloak, that's it. Resources still nerfed so I would like to know how is it StamNB got buffed so much? Also, Alcast only said the MagNB was going to be good, he never mentioned StamNB.

https://imgur.com/rDTuwRV

With a Surprise Attack setup in Homestead, these numbers were impossible. the highest parse I've seen from anyone without vMA weapons was Gilliam with 42k. Now, I'm doing 43.5k and Jeckll is there too. And that's on PTS with 300 ping, means that it will be possible to get to 46k. The DPS definitely went way up for stamina nightblades this patch. Stamblades are the only class that conserves the ability to light attack weave basically all the time next patch with a full damage setup (no cost reduction or regen glyphs or any of that crap) unlike other classes which have to heavy attack. So i essence, NBs not only pull competitive DPS to other stam classes (including stam DK) but they also have a unique playstyle. I don't see how these are nerfs.

Gilliam already said 46k was possible in homestead with raid buffs. .... Nowhere near a Sorc. I have not seen any Gilliam video showing morrowind PTS sustain. Gilliam has yet to post a positive StamNB video after the siphon nerf. So where are you getting your information?

From myself. This is my parse and my testing and I'm not the only one to believe that Stamina Nightblades are the only class (along with the magicka counter part) that will be able to conserve light attack weaving while maintaining a full damage setup. The 43.5k in this parse is fully selfbuffed. With proper ping and no lag, 46k is largely doable selfbuffed. So how about this?
In Homestead you could do 42k self buffed on a non vMA setup and 45k on a vMA setup. Now its largely possible to do 46k without vMA weapons. I don't know where you're getting the 46k raid buffed, because that is some low DPS.
Just because Gilliam doesn't post anything positive *yet*, doesn't mean there are no positive things. Go onto the PTS and test for yourself. Leeching Strikes still makes the difference between having to do heavy attacks and being able to sustain without heavy attacks at all.
Nightblades in general may not be the best this patch, but they are in a much better spot than they were before. And they get to conserve the light attack weaving playstyle, whereas a Sorc has no other choice but to heavy attack at least once per 9 second rotation (and even then run into resource issues without good group support).

@DPShiro Thank you for the kind words! I'm just going to say the same thing as I did when I posted the DPS into guild chat: nightblade is back!

Izaki

gediv2 wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Why cant people just adjust their builds like everyone else instead of complaining on the forums? Things are finally going back to normal. Dont like a class? Play something else!

Why can't people stop saying "why can't people..." when it is obvious people... can't?

There are miles of text and hours of video showing the comparative shortcomings of Nightblades. Why can't people understand that, and stop complaining about people who complain about it? Mirrors within mirrors! Gaaaah!!!

Those short comings of Nightblades were mostly released during the first 2 weeks of PTS, where the situation was indeed terrible for Nightblades. Now? Things have changed in a big way. Siphoning Strikes is actually pretty good, the Light Attack damage buff helps Nightblades more than other classes (because they are the only ones to light attack weave constantly with a full damage setup) and the Grim Focus buff, which literally doubled the DPS contribution of the ability making it as good as Frags used to be (back when it was actually used by Sorcs, which is no longer the case in most solo sustainable builds).

gediv2

So... A Stam NB with legendary/glyphed crafted gear and... let's say... Spriggans and Monster set will enjoy dps parity with Sorcs with same gear after the patch? No? Oh, a future nerf removes Sorcs from the equation? OK, then they will do as much dps and utility as a DK? No? OK,... So the point is they will still be lower on the totem pole but by less of a difference?

<Insert Oliver Twist meme here>

Typing "L2P" would have been a more economical response.

valkaneer2b14_ESO

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

gediv2 wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Why cant people just adjust their builds like everyone else instead of complaining on the forums? Things are finally going back to normal. Dont like a class? Play something else!

Why can't people stop saying "why can't people..." when it is obvious people... can't?

There are miles of text and hours of video showing the comparative shortcomings of Nightblades. Why can't people understand that, and stop complaining about people who complain about it? Mirrors within mirrors! Gaaaah!!!

Those short comings of Nightblades were mostly released during the first 2 weeks of PTS, where the situation was indeed terrible for Nightblades. Now? Things have changed in a big way. Siphoning Strikes is actually pretty good, the Light Attack damage buff helps Nightblades more than other classes (because they are the only ones to light attack weave constantly with a full damage setup) and the Grim Focus buff, which literally doubled the DPS contribution of the ability making it as good as Frags used to be (back when it was actually used by Sorcs, which is no longer the case in most solo sustainable builds).

I saw no change in Siphoning from 3.03 and 3.04 and both Alcast and Gilliam said it was was a horrible change the nerfed it to the ground basically. I heard there may be a change inc to Siphoning soon that will make it decent once again, but both Alcast and Gilliam said might as well not even put it on your bar. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong. I just want to know where the buff was that changed everyone's opinion between 3.03 and 3.04?

Izaki

gediv2 wrote: »

So... A Stam NB with legendary/glyphed crafted gear and... let's say... Spriggans and Monster set will enjoy dps parity with Sorcs with same gear after the patch? No? Oh, a future nerf removes Sorcs from the equation? OK, then they will do as much dps and utility as a DK? No? OK,... So the point is they will still be lower on the totem pole but by less of a difference?

<Insert Oliver Twist meme here>

Typing "L2P" would have been a more economical response.

Stam NBs pull more DPS than Stam Sorcs this patch. Tested with just Major Fracture, the NB was ahead in basically 10 of the tests we did on both classes. Oh yeah, and the Sorc was tested with both vMA weapons and without and not only did we have to run Dubious Camoran Throne to sustain light attack weaving but also even then the sustain was pretty terrible in comparison to NB on which you could use food and be just fine.
What utility does a Stam DK offer? Chains? They don't have the bar space for it. Igneous? Besides not having the bar space for it, Igneous doesn't stack, so a stam DK with its 17k health pool is going to overwrite the Tank's Igneous shield. Stam DKs don't offer any utility. And Stamblades also have potentially more utility than most stam classes due to War Machine and providing insanely high Major Slayer uptimes. So at this point, they are one of the better stamina classes.

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

gediv2 wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Why cant people just adjust their builds like everyone else instead of complaining on the forums? Things are finally going back to normal. Dont like a class? Play something else!

Why can't people stop saying "why can't people..." when it is obvious people... can't?

There are miles of text and hours of video showing the comparative shortcomings of Nightblades. Why can't people understand that, and stop complaining about people who complain about it? Mirrors within mirrors! Gaaaah!!!

Those short comings of Nightblades were mostly released during the first 2 weeks of PTS, where the situation was indeed terrible for Nightblades. Now? Things have changed in a big way. Siphoning Strikes is actually pretty good, the Light Attack damage buff helps Nightblades more than other classes (because they are the only ones to light attack weave constantly with a full damage setup) and the Grim Focus buff, which literally doubled the DPS contribution of the ability making it as good as Frags used to be (back when it was actually used by Sorcs, which is no longer the case in most solo sustainable builds).

I saw no change in Siphoning from 3.03 and 3.04 and both Alcast and Gilliam said it was was a horrible change the nerfed it to the ground basically. I heard there may be a change inc to Siphoning soon that will make it decent once again, but both Alcast and Gilliam said might as well not even put it on your bar. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong. I just want to know where the buff was that changed everyone's opinion between 3.03 and 3.04?

"Alcast and Gilliam said this and that". Why don't you test for yourself? Just because 2 good players said something doesn't mean its true. Everyone can be wrong. "Nerfed to the ground" sure, but its still basically a must have on the bar.
Also I never said Siphoning was amazing or that it received some buff that made it amazing. I said it made the difference between having to do heavy attacks and being able to sustain without them. Just because its nothing in comparison to what it used to be, doesn't mean its not good or useful.

Soleya

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Stam NBs pull more DPS than Stam Sorcs this patch. Tested with just Major Fracture, the NB was ahead in basically 10 of the tests we did on both classes. Oh yeah, and the Sorc was tested with both vMA weapons and without and not only did we have to run Dubious Camoran Throne to sustain light attack weaving but also even then the sustain was pretty terrible in comparison to NB on which you could use food and be just fine.

I've seen quite a few people say that NB tends to parse a bit better on the test dummy because of 100% up time of Minor Brutality (Relentless Focus), whereas other classes get it from the healer casting Combat Prayer. So during your tests did you have someone cast combat prayer on the stam sorc?

Izaki

Soleya wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Stam NBs pull more DPS than Stam Sorcs this patch. Tested with just Major Fracture, the NB was ahead in basically 10 of the tests we did on both classes. Oh yeah, and the Sorc was tested with both vMA weapons and without and not only did we have to run Dubious Camoran Throne to sustain light attack weaving but also even then the sustain was pretty terrible in comparison to NB on which you could use food and be just fine.

I've seen quite a few people say that NB tends to parse a bit better on the test dummy because of 100% up time of Minor Brutality (Relentless Focus), whereas other classes get it from the healer casting Combat Prayer. So during your tests did you have someone cast combat prayer on the stam sorc?

Yes we did, I had a template magicka nightblade casting Piercing Mark and Combat Prayer in every test and then we swapped and I was doing the testing while Mark and Combat Prayer were applied for me. When the NB wasn't using Relentless Focus it was parsing lower than a Stam Sorc, but that's due to the huge damage contribution of Assassin's Scourge with the recent buffs, so we figured that we had to use Combat Prayer in the tests. And surely enough, the NB does parse higher consistently. But then again, the NB has a much higher skill cap too, so it does require a lot more practice to "get gud" on a NB than on a Sorc, but the results are also higher.

Voxicity

My stamblade main was retired from PvE for over half a year now in replace of magsorc and then magdk, of which I went on to clear vMoL. Definitely looking forward to getting him back into PvE and running a support dps build with war machine and NMG.

samandhi

While I have not tested any of these changes, on paper it seems to me that with the CP changes (specifically to melee and bow now being ALL direct attacks, not just light/heavy) you should actually need less stam overall to do the same amount of dmg.

FuriousFridge

mb10 wrote: »

Lol my friend, just bury any NB you have and wear a condom before you consider making a new one.

Foreal though haha I rerolled a stam sorcs a couple days ago and never had more fun playing

acw37162

Stamina NB will actually be fairly nice next patch even PVE trials DPS.

Echoing one of the posters above @Vaoh I believe reducing pet damage and buffing magica warden are bigger concerns then stam or magica NB and magica NB is going to be very very strong this patch.

Also my understanding there are subusysntial changes coming 5/22

FuriousFridge

acw37162 wrote: »

Stamina NB will actually be fairly nice next patch even PVE trials DPS.

Echoing one of the posters above @Vaoh I believe reducing pet damage and buffing magica warden are bigger concerns then stam or magica NB and magica NB is going to be very very strong this patch.

Also my understanding there are subusysntial changes coming 5/22

Nah wardens new. nightblades have been waiting it's there turn now

Absolut_Turkey

Stamina NBs are doing fine in Vvardenfell. It turns out people were freaking out over nothing

gediv2

There has been no substantive buff to stam NB this patch (1 class skill that requires 6 key presses to utilize? lol). They remain at or near bottom due to vet/hm mechanics in pve. They are still fun in Open World adventuring though.

To the test dummy dummies: Test dummies don't hit back.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7t0t-lG0L1k

Izaki

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Stamina NBs are doing fine in Vvardenfell. It turns out people were freaking out over nothing

Been saying that for 2 weeks before Morrowind released and got laughed at.

Izaki

gediv2 wrote: »

There has been no substantive buff to stam NB this patch (1 class skill that requires 6 key presses to utilize? lol). They remain at or near bottom due to vet/hm mechanics in pve. They are still fun in Open World adventuring though.

To the test dummy dummies: Test dummies don't hit back.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7t0t-lG0L1k

Yet they demonstrate the potential of a class. So just wait and see until we get some parses from vHoF.

Balamoor

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Stamina NBs are doing fine in Vvardenfell. It turns out people were freaking out over nothing

What??!!!!

You mean all the hair pulling, the predictions of doom, the food flying from their mouth unhinged Video rants and mock funerals were for nothing?

Wow.....who'd a thunk it?

FlyLionel

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hrolfkel wrote: »

Don't see why peeps crying about Stamblabes need. NBs Will be OP this patch tested my stamblade I can get 20k single target with my build off light attacks alone. Weaving in skills I can hit 28 - 30k single target and it barely puts a dent in my stam

I see that you, I, and soon to be Alcast are the few who seem to think that NBs as a whole will be doing pretty well for PVE this patch. I am glad I am not alone. People will be proved wrong with numbers once it goes live. Don't forget that Nightblades will have the highest uptime by far for the new trials set which will be buffing 2 other dps also.

What buff did the StamNB get that every other class did not? Grim Focus and Cloak, that's it. Resources still nerfed so I would like to know how is it StamNB got buffed so much? Also, Alcast only said the MagNB was going to be good, he never mentioned StamNB.

https://imgur.com/rDTuwRV

With a Surprise Attack setup in Homestead, these numbers were impossible. the highest parse I've seen from anyone without vMA weapons was Gilliam with 42k. Now, I'm doing 43.5k and Jeckll is there too. And that's on PTS with 300 ping, means that it will be possible to get to 46k. The DPS definitely went way up for stamina nightblades this patch. Stamblades are the only class that conserves the ability to light attack weave basically all the time next patch with a full damage setup (no cost reduction or regen glyphs or any of that crap) unlike other classes which have to heavy attack. So i essence, NBs not only pull competitive DPS to other stam classes (including stam DK) but they also have a unique playstyle. I don't see how these are nerfs.

Gilliam already said 46k was possible in homestead with raid buffs. .... Nowhere near a Sorc. I have not seen any Gilliam video showing morrowind PTS sustain. Gilliam has yet to post a positive StamNB video after the siphon nerf. So where are you getting your information?

From myself. This is my parse and my testing and I'm not the only one to believe that Stamina Nightblades are the only class (along with the magicka counter part) that will be able to conserve light attack weaving while maintaining a full damage setup. The 43.5k in this parse is fully selfbuffed. With proper ping and no lag, 46k is largely doable selfbuffed. So how about this?
In Homestead you could do 42k self buffed on a non vMA setup and 45k on a vMA setup. Now its largely possible to do 46k without vMA weapons. I don't know where you're getting the 46k raid buffed, because that is some low DPS.
Just because Gilliam doesn't post anything positive *yet*, doesn't mean there are no positive things. Go onto the PTS and test for yourself. Leeching Strikes still makes the difference between having to do heavy attacks and being able to sustain without heavy attacks at all.
Nightblades in general may not be the best this patch, but they are in a much better spot than they were before. And they get to conserve the light attack weaving playstyle, whereas a Sorc has no other choice but to heavy attack at least once per 9 second rotation (and even then run into resource issues without good group support).

@DPShiro Thank you for the kind words! I'm just going to say the same thing as I did when I posted the DPS into guild chat: nightblade is back!

Hey, i'm on console. Can you provide a video of this 40k+ dps on NB using a real trial setup(do you still use surprise attack in trial?) VMA/Non VMA. If you can, thanks. @IzakiBrotherSs