Can someone explain dungeons to me.

Violynne

For all those who are complaining about the upcoming changes, try taking a year long break and then coming back to the game.

What I remember:
- Going into a dungeon as a group meant the dungeon scaled to the group leader.

What I know:
- Game level scales low level players as all enemies are CP160 now. As player approaches 50, scaling drops off a cliff.
- Some dungeons have a I or II, and the latter is scaled for more seasoned players.

Background:
A couple of weeks ago, a new player reached out to me and I've been helping them understand the game, though their experience with "Never Winter" seems to be dependent on how he plays this game. I've no MMO history beyond ESO, so whatever.

He begged me repeatedly to get into the Banished Cells in Auridon. He just had to go there. Now, I'm a CP160, but am in a quasi-state of leveling up because I hit CP without the necessary Skyshards to unlock my skills and passive (Jester's and Anniversary 100% exp gains back-to-back will do this).

I knew I wasn't completely ready to take on a dungeon at my level without all my skills/passives unlocked, but I figured I could at least be supportive.

It was a fiasco.

Partly because, despite all advice to him how to play his stamBlade, he pretty much ignored it because "Ooh, look, I'm making the same mistake every new stamBlade makes by shadow killing my first kill! Check it, bruh!" After I showed him why it's a problem (by also performing the same attack as a magBlade), he finally got it.

Once we finally managed to sync our attacks, the trash mobs tore me up. I mean, jeez, I know I don't have much CC, but this was brutal.

We finally managed to get to the first boss, some wraith with 800k health. Here's the kicker: I had zero problem with it as I had to take it on solo (partner didn't have enough soul gems and had to wayshrine to the entrance), even with that nasty drain spell. As soon as it dropped, we moved on to another group of 7 trash mobs, and both wiped.

At this point, he finally gave in and said, "You were right." I said, "No, I'm not. Based on what people have said, the both of us should easily clear this level dungeon."

That's why I'm lost as to what in the world changed with dungeons. If they're not scaled to the leader, how are they scaled, and how does the game "balance" a CP160 and a lvl 39?

This bugs me because *I* shouldn't be having problems with these infernal trash mobs, but they're toasting me despite not having my full rotation unlocked yet.

I must exact my revenge. This was embarrassing.

Merlin13KAGL

Violynne wrote: »

What I know:
- Game level scales low level players as all enemies are CP160 now. As player approaches 50, scaling drops off a cliff.
- Some dungeons have a I or II, and the latter is scaled for more seasoned players.

Everything scales to CP160 (previous VR16 equivalent), that includes your character + all mobs There is no more 'Group finder / Battle Spirit," so to speak, since scaling has already taken place.

For those aspects, as long as you are wearing level appropriate gear, you'll be scaled as a CP160 would be. If you're wearing gear 10 levels lower, you won't be getting the full benefit (thus the 'star' rating in upper right of your character stat screen)

The I & II correspond to the old "normal" and "Vet" versions of dungeons, referring to the content contained within. Some dungeons never received their "Vet" counterpart, so there is no II (direfrost, for instance).

(Norm will give you blue quality drops, Vet gives you purple.)

Do not confuse this with the difficulty setting in group finder. "Normal" is basically scaled down and much easier. "Veteran" is about where the original dungeon difficulty was before. You have to do the Vet difficulty if you're trying for a monster helm. There is also a Hard Mode version only available in Vet.

Your gear drops will always scale to your actual level, up to the gear cap of 160.

Background:
A couple of weeks ago, a new player reached out to me and I've been helping them understand the game, though their experience with "Never Winter" seems to be dependent on how he plays this game. I've no MMO history beyond ESO, so whatever.

He begged me repeatedly to get into the Banished Cells in Auridon. He just had to go there. Now, I'm a CP160, but am in a quasi-state of leveling up because I hit CP without the necessary Skyshards to unlock my skills and passive (Jester's and Anniversary 100% exp gains back-to-back will do this).

This part confuses me a little. At CP 160, you usually have enough skillpoints from simply being max level to have your class skills unlocked, at least one weapons line unlocked, and most of the passives you need.

If you're missing some key passives, shard hunt to unlock the ones you need, then unlock the ones you want.

I knew I wasn't completely ready to take on a dungeon at my level without all my skills/passives unlocked, but I figured I could at least be supportive.

It was a fiasco.

Partly because, despite all advice to him how to play his stamBlade, he pretty much ignored it because "Ooh, look, I'm making the same mistake every new stamBlade makes by shadow killing my first kill! Check it, bruh!" After I showed him why it's a problem (by also performing the same attack as a magBlade), he finally got it.

Once we finally managed to sync our attacks, the trash mobs tore me up. I mean, jeez, I know I don't have much CC, but this was brutal.

We finally managed to get to the first boss, some wraith with 800k health. Here's the kicker: I had zero problem with it as I had to take it on solo (partner didn't have enough soul gems and had to wayshrine to the entrance), even with that nasty drain spell. As soon as it dropped, we moved on to another group of 7 trash mobs, and both wiped.

At this point, he finally gave in and said, "You were right." I said, "No, I'm not. Based on what people have said, the both of us should easily clear this level dungeon."

That's why I'm lost as to what in the world changed with dungeons. If they're not scaled to the leader, how are they scaled, and how does the game "balance" a CP160 and a lvl 39?

This bugs me because *I* shouldn't be having problems with these infernal trash mobs, but they're toasting me despite not having my full rotation unlocked yet.

I must exact my revenge. This was embarrassing.

The remainder of this is likely a combination of factors.

Most of those dungeons are intended for 4 man, not 2 (at least not until you are vastly familiar, can self heal and mitigate.) If you're just going for the experience, or to see the mechanics, do them on Normal difficulty, as mentioned above.

Next, make sure you're wearing CP160 gear.

Make sure you've spent your champion points (use the champion point menu keybind). They will give you more resources (health, magicka, stamina) for each point spent, some good passives, and they do make a difference.

Don't underestimate the trash mobs, especially in large #'s. They don't hit hard, but those little hits add up, especially when you have no tank and are two groupmembers short.

Sadly, with the way scaling works now, your level 39 friend is likely to appear more powerful than you, until he hits 50 and suddenly everything simply becomes what it is.

Sounds like you entered a Vet difficulty instance of the dungeon.

So, short version, everything and everyone (except players CP0 - CP159) is scaled to CP160 (VR16), including the mobs, and in veteran difficulty, they get more health and about 2x the mitigation.

Make sure your gear is at 4 stars (at or near your level(s)), you're using food (Blue for health + primary stat), and you're practicing the Normal dunegons before you step up to the vet. It's probably more about the damage you're taking (look into the Hardy and Elemental Defender stars in CP) than the damage you're (not) putting out.

Key thing with soloing or 2 manning, staying alive comes first. DPS comes second.

Good luck & let us know if this helps.

Greydir

Ok lets start of with how the eff does the Level Scaling work:

First of the Scaling is majorly dependant on two factors
1) The Level (seems easy right?) Since the nominal level of all content is 160cp all Players lower than that are scaled towards this threshold. This means the lower a Player is in Level the more the game will boost his Stats in a Direction, that is Partially determined by the Attribute Points spend so far. The System registers if you put an emphasis on say magica and will Scale your Maximal Ressource with that destinction, so you will get a higher Magica pool than Stamina pool
2) The Gear. This is a bit Tricky, more so if you hit the Jump from level 49 to CP160. The Gear is Scaled as if you would wear that gear, tailored to your level boosted to CP 160, so if you wear Level 10 Gear and Are Level 10 your gear will recive a Buff for the missing 40 Levels and 160 CP. If you wear level 10 Gear and are level 30 Your gear will only recive a Boost for the missing 20 Levels and 160 CP. This in Turn means you are missing out on about 10 Levels of Gear Progression and will, in turn have worse stats than a player equipped with gear on his level.

How Does the Game Balance a 160 CP and a level 39?
As Described , the 160Cp player will recive no Buffs at all, while the level 39 Player is Scaled to 160 in accordance to the Scheme described above.

What about the Dungeon?
The Dungeon will always be at 160CP Regardless the Composition of players Trying to Complete it.

What About dungeons with a II?
Dungeons with a II are also Scaled to 160CP but they are Story and mechanics wise the Dungeons that were formerly known as Veteran Dungeons. In Most cases the Story of the second part of a Dungeon is a continuation of the first part. Ths does not necessary mean that dungeons with a II are Harder to complete but they will have some more Specialised Mechanics, since they originally where intended for the more veteran players. This does not mean that the Enemys are by default stronger.

Normal or Vet?
All Dungeons have a Normal and a Veteran version now, the difference being that Enemys in the Veteran versions have significant bigger Health pools and will hit you significantly harder. Since you are Teaming up with a Player that has yet to reach the Champion Ranks you will only be able to play the normal versions.

Why was it such a fiasco then?
Maybe you did not play to your strengths, maybe you did not know some things, maybe you did some other mistakes.
The Dungeons are geared towards groups of four Players. It will be possible to play them with fewer Players but you would have to invest some time into your Build to gear yourself up accordingly.
The Strong Point of a Magica Nightblade will be your amazing Selfheal with AOE Damage Abilitys. That should give you a decent Starting Point to increase your survivability when trying to two man four man dungeons.

Zakor

Hey,

since the big One Tamriel patch there is a new scaling mechanic in place. EVERYTHING in this game world (players, npc, bosses, we) is scaled up to cp160. Yes, even a lvl39 is counted as cp160 since his stats are all scaled up. That means the two of you tried a 4-man cp160 dungeon. While some people easily solo those at cp600+ it is no wonder you had such problems.

As for balancing:
Depending on current gear and stats every player under cp160 will be scaled to a calculated power level.
An example maybe:
Lvl 10 sorc with 5k Magicka and complete lvl 10 armor(green) scales to 25k magicka, with blue armor he would have 30k. If he only wears blue lvl8 armor he would still get 26k. The numbers here are arbitrary but you should get the idea.

Content in ESO currently is balanced somewhat around 300cp. To sum it up, you two lacked around 140cp each to do the dungeon easily, while not having enough experience or power (through missing skills and passives or bad gear maybe?) to duo it.

I suggest to collect your shards, make sure your partner has good gear and try it again. If you fail again you should consider using the grouping tool or lfg chat for reinforcements

I hope this helps and Good luck!

Khenarthi

I think the issue was lack of experience combined with no dedicated healer or tank, which would make a normal dungeon a breeze. The people bragging they solo these fast have their characters fully developed, with mitigation, selfheals, and know the dungeon inside and out.

Are you on PC EU? I'll happily come tank it on my magblade (if we have no healer, I hopefully will be able to keep you guys alive with the offheals from funnel health and sap essence).

Violynne

Thanks, guys, for all your help. I pretty much knew the dungeon required at least 3 people, with either a tank/healer as backup, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't off my rocker (more than I am).

I need to drag my friend kicking and screaming to the internet so he can stop bickering with me, especially with the constant comparison to "Never Winter". Sometimes, you just want to smack people.

I guess what really threw me off was me being able to handle a 800k+ enemy by myself, yet can't handle a bunch of trash mobs. Then again, magBlades + CC = non-existent.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

This part confuses me a little. At CP 160, you usually have enough skillpoints from simply being max level to have your class skills unlocked, at least one weapons line unlocked, and most of the passives you need.

Sorry, yes, it is confusing. I created my magBlade about a week before Jester and 2Yr anniversary festivals came out. I was doing the TG quest line, and the weeks of 100% exp gain put me at level 50 pretty much overnight. The only skill points I've acquired came through level at every 10 + one or two from TG.

Most of those went to a couple of skills, a couple of light armor passives, and the rest into TG/crafting just to get through the TG quests and low-level writs.

This weekend, I intend to respec my shards (done with TG) and go skyshard hunting. Then, actually get back to leveling the skills.

That's why I knew going in I wasn't as strong as I could be, but foolishly thought I could add support. HAHAHA. Nope.

Waffennacht

You got me wondering, what about Neverwinter?

I haven't played it since Eso dropped but I'm very curious as to what he keeps bringing up?

Merlin13KAGL

Violynne wrote: »

This weekend, I intend to respec my shards (done with TG) and go skyshard hunting. Then, actually get back to leveling the skills.

That's why I knew going in I wasn't as strong as I could be, but foolishly thought I could add support. HAHAHA. Nope.

Go to each zone and knock out the Group Event in each Public Dungeon. Most can be solo'd (really) and will give you a full skillpoint on completion. You can also pick up any skyshards along the way.

Makes it go a little faster than strictly shard hunting.

Kilavkid

I used to play ESO before the imperial city DLC was a thing, I just recently got back and first thing that stumped me was the new dungeon system,champ system and the new scaling for areas...