Stop nerfing nightblades.

Shadowasrial

First off let's go over how pvp balance should be. You have roles. Dps heals and tanks.
Now your ideal dps has high damage low health medium to low defense and decent sustain. Your ideal healer is low damage medium to low defense and high sustain. And your classic tank is low damage high def and high sustain. Now somewhere along the road you lost site of what class balance was. Now we have tanks with high damage high defense and high sustain. Along with the healers: while us dps have medium to high damage unless against shields. Low survival and low defense.

Now how many nightblades have you see who are able to rank against 6+ players and kill them? I haven't seen any. But how many sorcs and templars and dks have you seen do it? The answer? About half of them these days. Whether it's a sorc who's shield stacking then burning the entire group with a destro ultimate or a blazing shield Templar who kills as he takes damage the more he takes the harder you get hit or dks that block everything just to dragon leap your group and kill everyone. But us nightblades when faced by a larger group like that what can we do? Tuck tail and stealth away.

Yep people claim that we are op because we can burst you down from stealth when your at your most vulnerable. A nightblade is supposed to be a silent killer. A rogue who takes you by surprise. We aren't meant to be back and slash warriors carving our way around the battlefield. It's bad enough that we are the weakest class for pve but now we are steadily becoming the weakest class for pvp.
You already nerfed crit damage in pvp setting a crit chance cap. Now your removing the ability to get bonus damage from crit and lowering our sustain to the ground. Stop stomping us into the ground. Players say they can't survive being ganked? I'm a nightblade and half the other nightblades who try to gank me end up dead. Because I learned to react and turn the fight around. So if another squishy nightblade can survive being ganked I don't want to hear it that we are too op. Learn to react and stop thinking your class is supposed to be unkillable.

So to all my other nightblades out there stand up and unite. Flood these forums asking to buff us again. Post vids of the other classes tanking entire serfs while you get ran down like a rat. Speak out and get zos attention to give us back our power.

mb10

ZOS needs to just come forward and tell us they want to delete NBs because theyre basically going to be extinct in PVP too soon.

They already are in PVE which really sucks

Only thing left for them is that theyre good for a RP character in solo PVE content which you can do with a broom, bucket and a control pad that has no battery

gediv2

Get a clue ZOS.

Daemons_Bane

In the spirit of "Stop X", please stop making these threads There are tons of them already.. Post your opinion in one of the existing ones

UnversedNumber3

ZOS bases their nerfs and buffs off of game data and users that actually give ideas on how to fix the problem. Not what you all think should be nerfed.

If you want to help give constructive feedback. Dont make forms titled "Stop nerfing night blades"

If you find some useful data or statistics that ZOS can use to improve the game please share it. Your opinion dosent go very far on game production.

Xvorg

UnversedNumber3 wrote: »

ZOS bases their nerfs and buffs off of game data and users that actually give ideas on how to fix the problem. Not what you all think should be nerfed.

If you want to help give constructive feedback. Dont make forms titled "Stop nerfing night blades"

If you find some useful data or statistics that ZOS can use to improve the game please share it. Your opinion dosent go very far on game production.

Wrobel, is that you?

We have been giving constructive feedback for the last 3 years just to get the EXACTLY OPPOSITE to what is suggested.

So, you think it is good everyone in PvP is playing sorc, because ZOS doesn't nerf it, because it is the most popular class?

gediv2

UnversedNumber3 wrote: »

ZOS bases their nerfs and buffs off of game data and users that actually give ideas on how to fix the problem. Not what you all think should be nerfed.

If you want to help give constructive feedback. Dont make forms titled "Stop nerfing night blades"

If you find some useful data or statistics that ZOS can use to improve the game please share it. Your opinion dosent go very far on game production.

Your post represents everything wrong in game development today. You'd make a good middle manager at a fortune 10,000 company.

1) don't presume to tell people what they can or can't title their post on a friggen game forum.
2) the only "uselful data" ZOS needs is their customers overwhelmingly communicating their dissatisfaction with the performance of their class comparitively.
3) "Your opinion dosent go very far on game production" With laser like acuity you've summarized exactly how ZOS is failing.

Vipstaakki

Agreed. We need more Sorc tears instead.

Tryxus

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Agreed. We need more Sorc tears instead.

They alrdy have an official thread up for that

Daemons_Bane

gediv2 wrote: »

UnversedNumber3 wrote: »

ZOS bases their nerfs and buffs off of game data and users that actually give ideas on how to fix the problem. Not what you all think should be nerfed.

If you want to help give constructive feedback. Dont make forms titled "Stop nerfing night blades"

If you find some useful data or statistics that ZOS can use to improve the game please share it. Your opinion dosent go very far on game production.

Your post represents everything wrong in game development today. You'd make a good middle manager at a fortune 10,000 company.

1) don't presume to tell people what they can or can't title their post on a friggen game forum.
2) the only "uselful data" ZOS needs is their customers overwhelmingly communicating their dissatisfaction with the performance of their class comparitively.
3) "Your opinion dosent go very far on game production" With laser like acuity you've summarized exactly how ZOS is failing.

You're not coming off as the best type yourself pal

2) the only "uselful data" ZOS needs is their customers overwhelmingly communicating their dissatisfaction with the performance of their class comparitively.

IF they started changin stuff on this basis alone, the games would evolve into chaos

Nyladreas

Xvorg wrote: »

So, you think it is good everyone in PvP is playing sorc, because ZOS doesn't nerf it, because it is the most popular class?

AND THIS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IS THE PROBLEM!

If nerfing Sorcs (Or rather buffing all other classes to bring them up to par with Sorcs) will create a S**tstorm as large as with Templars (If not 100x bigger), ZOS will simply NOT DO IT!


The devs and corporate leadership have to realise that the only reason these classes are so popular and so often played is streaming from the fundamental problem of other classes simply UNDERPERFORMING!

Some players might be pissed off and leave, some players will unsub, others will complain for days, weeks even moths and years. But at the same time you'll gain just as many subs and players back because they will finally be able to play the class they love and truly want to play.

IT IS NOT A BAD BUSINESS DECISION! IT'S ACTUALLY GOOD.

Ask yourself this question: Do more people WANT TO play sorcs? Or do more people want to play the other 3 classes but DONT becuase they suck?

F Logic. Somebody please hit ZOS into their heads so they can light up their thinking.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

Nightblades in stealth are like sharks in the water. I like the excitement of these stealth killers. They keep me on my toes and that makes pvp more interesting.

Stealth killers are very useful in warfare. Snipers/Nightblades create tension and paranoia in the enemy, which will make the enemy think twice before siitting on a horse in the middle of a field or racing towards a castle to reinforce their team.

You need that balance or pvp would just be a big horse race from castle to castle with no fear of being ripped off their horse.

Stealth Nightblades picking off zerg stragglers causes the zerg to loose numbers and confidence.

Hate them or Love them, Nightblades and Stealth are a necessary balance.

Floki

gediv2

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

gediv2 wrote: »

UnversedNumber3 wrote: »

ZOS bases their nerfs and buffs off of game data and users that actually give ideas on how to fix the problem. Not what you all think should be nerfed.

If you want to help give constructive feedback. Dont make forms titled "Stop nerfing night blades"

If you find some useful data or statistics that ZOS can use to improve the game please share it. Your opinion dosent go very far on game production.

Your post represents everything wrong in game development today. You'd make a good middle manager at a fortune 10,000 company.

1) don't presume to tell people what they can or can't title their post on a friggen game forum.
2) the only "uselful data" ZOS needs is their customers overwhelmingly communicating their dissatisfaction with the performance of their class comparitively.
3) "Your opinion dosent go very far on game production" With laser like acuity you've summarized exactly how ZOS is failing.

You're not coming off as the best type yourself pal

2) the only "uselful data" ZOS needs is their customers overwhelmingly communicating their dissatisfaction with the performance of their class comparitively.

IF they started changin stuff on this basis alone, the games would evolve into chaos

I agree with your counterpoint. I should have said when a significant majority of customers believe a class is underperforming it needs improvement NOT nerfs.

And don't call me pal, buddy!

Shadowasrial

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

Nightblades in stealth are like sharks in the water. I like the excitement of these stealth killers. They keep me on my toes and that makes pvp more interesting.

Stealth killers are very useful in warfare. Snipers/Nightblades create tension and paranoia in the enemy, which will make the enemy think twice before siitting on a horse in the middle of a field or racing towards a castle to reinforce their team.

You need that balance or pvp would just be a big horse race from castle to castle with no fear of being ripped off their horse.

Stealth Nightblades picking off zerg stragglers causes the zerg to loose numbers and confidence.

Hate them or Love them, Nightblades and Stealth are a necessary balance.

Floki

Exactly. And by nerfing these assassin characteristics of the nightblade they are essentially killing a valuable strategy for warfare. When I jump one of thier stragglers their whole group wagon wheels around to pick them up. And you know they are warning thier group that it's a nightblade. You hear it in your own group all the time. Be careful there's a nightblade here. You try to Rez your fallen teammates and one of your other group members gets taken down. This silent hit and run stategy is effective and useful.

Koolio

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

Nightblades in stealth are like sharks in the water. I like the excitement of these stealth killers. They keep me on my toes and that makes pvp more interesting.

Stealth killers are very useful in warfare. Snipers/Nightblades create tension and paranoia in the enemy, which will make the enemy think twice before siitting on a horse in the middle of a field or racing towards a castle to reinforce their team.

You need that balance or pvp would just be a big horse race from castle to castle with no fear of being ripped off their horse.

Stealth Nightblades picking off zerg stragglers causes the zerg to loose numbers and confidence.

Hate them or Love them, Nightblades and Stealth are a necessary balance.

Floki

Exactly. And by nerfing these assassin characteristics of the nightblade they are essentially killing a valuable strategy for warfare. When I jump one of thier stragglers their whole group wagon wheels around to pick them up. And you know they are warning thier group that it's a nightblade. You hear it in your own group all the time. Be careful there's a nightblade here. You try to Rez your fallen teammates and one of your other group members gets taken down. This silent hit and run stategy is effective and useful.

Especially when the strategy nowadays is just let them stack then destro ult. On my nightblade I travel around to the back of the groups with detect pots to kill the bomb blades. I wait until the right moment and a lot of the time it's what makes it breaks the fight. Especially when you know who is bombing. You take them out and then we can kill them. When they take that away you might as well blob up throw a destro on and join the party.

davey1107

I'm with the OP. Other notes:

Nightblades have low health, low resistance and these small HoTs. This has remained consistent with the original game concept that only Templars got mass heals. But now Sorcs and DKs put out MASSIVE heals. I've been fighting DKs with 30k+ health who when at 20% just zap their bar to full health. If anything, tanky classes should have small heals and NBs should have better ones.

Core Nightblade skills are constantly being given counters. Dark Cloak is made increasingly ineffective. Vigor is being nerfed. Now another core skill, siphoning attacks, is being made useless. Sneaking is the NB play style, but at every turn they make it harder to sneak and kill.

Core weaknesses aren't compensated for. I've played six vet toons for 2+ years. In that time, all of the other classes have been handed abilities that make up for their weak areas, whether in changes, in new sets or in CPs. My sorc went from the squishiest toon to one of the tankiest. My DK puts out a lot of damage now. My Templar is nearly invincible with the harness magicka + jabs. But my NB still has the same challenges he had when I started - low resistance, no good shields, mediocre heals, etc.

I understand that the data shows that NBs win a lot of their fights. THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOILD BE, ZOS. A DK or Templar should pick a fight with everyone, but a NB chooses their battles. I engage when I'm 90% sure I can win. We are Darwin at work...we exploit weakness and foolish behavior. If your data doesn't show NBs killing solo players in 3-5 hits, you haven't designed them right.

And right now, ZOS, for over a year, your whole community is telling you that both stamblades and magblade underperform in end game pve and in certain respects in pvp, and you consistently ignore this input and every patch note is a list of jerks and important promise to fix cloak. Enough already.

Shadowasrial

davey1107 wrote: »

I'm with the OP. Other notes:

Nightblades have low health, low resistance and these small HoTs. This has remained consistent with the original game concept that only Templars got mass heals. But now Sorcs and DKs put out MASSIVE heals. I've been fighting DKs with 30k+ health who when at 20% just zap their bar to full health. If anything, tanky classes should have small heals and NBs should have better ones.

Core Nightblade skills are constantly being given counters. Dark Cloak is made increasingly ineffective. Vigor is being nerfed. Now another core skill, siphoning attacks, is being made useless. Sneaking is the NB play style, but at every turn they make it harder to sneak and kill.

Core weaknesses aren't compensated for. I've played six vet toons for 2+ years. In that time, all of the other classes have been handed abilities that make up for their weak areas, whether in changes, in new sets or in CPs. My sorc went from the squishiest toon to one of the tankiest. My DK puts out a lot of damage now. My Templar is nearly invincible with the harness magicka + jabs. But my NB still has the same challenges he had when I started - low resistance, no good shields, mediocre heals, etc.

I understand that the data shows that NBs win a lot of their fights. THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOILD BE, ZOS. A DK or Templar should pick a fight with everyone, but a NB chooses their battles. I engage when I'm 90% sure I can win. We are Darwin at work...we exploit weakness and foolish behavior. If your data doesn't show NBs killing solo players in 3-5 hits, you haven't designed them right.

And right now, ZOS, for over a year, your whole community is telling you that both stamblades and magblade underperform in end game pve and in certain respects in pvp, and you consistently ignore this input and every patch note is a list of jerks and important promise to fix cloak. Enough already.

Your exactly right. Most data will show a nightblade victory because we actually have to choose our targets carefully. We won't attack unless we are 100% sure we can overwhelm our target. If we are wrong we die or have to run. And if they are in a group then good luck getting away. Between all the stealth breaking abilities out there now it's getting harder to run away as a nightblade

gediv2

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

Nightblades in stealth are like sharks in the water. I like the excitement of these stealth killers. They keep me on my toes and that makes pvp more interesting.

Stealth killers are very useful in warfare. Snipers/Nightblades create tension and paranoia in the enemy, which will make the enemy think twice before siitting on a horse in the middle of a field or racing towards a castle to reinforce their team.

You need that balance or pvp would just be a big horse race from castle to castle with no fear of being ripped off their horse.

Stealth Nightblades picking off zerg stragglers causes the zerg to loose numbers and confidence.

Hate them or Love them, Nightblades and Stealth are a necessary balance.

Floki

Ya, i want to hang out on the fringe picking off the young and the weak. So thrilling. Rewatch this cinematic that ZOS made. THAT'S the nightblade I wanted to play. Kill with bow and then run in to slice and dice relying on dexterity and speed to kill the iron clad enemy. Not hide behind a bush until I can pick off the unsuspecting. Fun starts a little after the 3:00 mark. Enjoy the idealized version of a horribly unrealized class that ZOS offers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soKDyDjc3KQ

Kode

There seems to be a common consensus that the game is currently in a bad state, and has been. ZOS has changes coming, so unless these comments are aimed at the test server, in which case they should be on that forum, then I'm not sure what they will accomplish because the deck is about to be redealt.
I understand your apprehension to the Nightblade nerfs, but unless you are testing the changes, the best that you can do is speculate to the outcome. Multiple moving parts means that changes to other classes could affect where Nightblades fall when hands are redealt.
The problem is, ZOS isnt very good at making changes... instead of fine tuning the game, they keep overhauling the whole damn thing. Then they introduce new features, sets, or changes that unbalance everything and take another shot at a massive overhaul. It has gotten to the point that they should call it a "feature" and make the changes into seasons where they are at least intentionally shuffling the deck.
Then people would expect to be winning some seasons, and getting the shaft in others... "Oh man, Nightblades are really dominating this season"...

deepseamk20b14_ESO

What's wrong with NB? Broken cloak but good class.

max_only

It's real easy. Leave Siphoning Attacks alone.

Make our spectral bow execute auto recast.

That's it. That's all you have to do to get nightblades on equal level. Will we be best tanks? No. Will we be best healers? No. Will we be best dps? No. We will go from "wet noodle only good for ganking" to "a challenging play style focused on careful planning".

Nyladreas

max_only wrote: »

It's real easy. Leave Siphoning Attacks alone.

Make our spectral bow execute auto recast.

That's it. That's all you have to do to get nightblades on equal level. Will we be best tanks? No. Will we be best healers? No. Will we be best dps? No. We will go from "wet noodle only good for ganking" to "a challenging play style focused on careful planning".

I agree and disagree.

Make our spectral bow execute auto recast. <- THIS SHOULD BE A BASELINE ESSENTIAL

I would love to see the Devs keep the skillcap of playing a NB properly but reward the player with numbers equal to every other class and the ability to perform every role in every setting. PvE, PvP, vet PVE, BGs, Solo. W/E it is. Add more stam morphs if necessary. And I'm not saying make the numbers the best. Hell I don't care being last on the DPS/Tank/Heal meter or statistics as long as it's almost identical numbers. Just leave it difficult to play as it is. What I hate is the fact that there's a HUGE GAP making us worthless outside of PVP ganking at the moment.

I would also love to see a NB stamina self-heal equal to Vigour just for the immersion purposes.. Equal strength, mechanics and cost. So people dont stack both and become OP (if 1 was a longer dot or InstaHeal for example). Or tie it into a buff. Blur and it's morphs for example, but keep the cost. Idk there's tons of options, just use the head.

I'm a shadowy rogue, frontline or not, magicka or not, I'm using DARK MAGIC.

I DO NOT WANT TO SHINE like a MF'ing Templar every 5 seconds, because there's no useful class self-heal.

Thanks.

Edit: Phone typos and grammar mistakes.

Xvorg

christopher.duvalub17_ESO wrote: »

There seems to be a common consensus that the game is currently in a bad state, and has been. ZOS has changes coming, so unless these comments are aimed at the test server, in which case they should be on that forum, then I'm not sure what they will accomplish because the deck is about to be redealt.
I understand your apprehension to the Nightblade nerfs, but unless you are testing the changes, the best that you can do is speculate to the outcome. Multiple moving parts means that changes to other classes could affect where Nightblades fall when hands are redealt.
The problem is, ZOS isnt very good at making changes... instead of fine tuning the game, they keep overhauling the whole damn thing. Then they introduce new features, sets, or changes that unbalance everything and take another shot at a massive overhaul. It has gotten to the point that they should call it a "feature" and make the changes into seasons where they are at least intentionally shuffling the deck.
Then people would expect to be winning some seasons, and getting the shaft in others... "Oh man, Nightblades are really dominating this season"...

Do you really think peope who's enraged against the nerfs is posting without going to PTS?

There's a lot of data in the PTS forum supporting the complaint

TheRiverBlues

max_only wrote: »

It's real easy. Leave Siphoning Attacks alone.

Make our spectral bow execute auto recast.

That's it. That's all you have to do to get nightblades on equal level. Will we be best tanks? No. Will we be best healers? No. Will we be best dps? No. We will go from "wet noodle only good for ganking" to "a challenging play style focused on careful planning".

As a rogue class should be. They should be high risk, high reward playstyle. Yet we are missing the high reward aspect for our risky playstyle.

ShiroFong

I am agreeing with the fact that Nightblades are getting weaker, and do hope that we can get an update patch with it to balance out the class, maybe some faults lays with us but you get what i mean.

zyk

I felt in 2.2, NB was a well-balanced class. But then Templars continued to get buffed. DKs got buffed. Sorcs are Sorcs. NBs, since 2.2, have received net nerfs, despite never being OP.

Gilvoth

gediv2 wrote: »

Get a clue ZOS.

they would already know this if they played their game daily and all day long like we do. (i'm referring to PvP)

Gilvoth

max_only wrote: »

It's real easy. Leave Siphoning Attacks alone.

Make our spectral bow execute auto recast.

That's it. That's all you have to do to get nightblades on equal level

no, that's all it requires for YOUR nightblade playstyle.
that has nothing to do with other people, just you and your personal playstyle

the fact of the matter remains that nightblades are easily killed and simply do not do as much damage as the other classes do.

Gilvoth

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

Nightblades in stealth are like sharks in the water. I like the excitement of these stealth killers. They keep me on my toes and that makes pvp more interesting.

Stealth killers are very useful in warfare. Snipers/Nightblades create tension and paranoia in the enemy, which will make the enemy think twice before siitting on a horse in the middle of a field or racing towards a castle to reinforce their team.

You need that balance or pvp would just be a big horse race from castle to castle with no fear of being ripped off their horse.

Stealth Nightblades picking off zerg stragglers causes the zerg to loose numbers and confidence.

Hate them or Love them, Nightblades and Stealth are a necessary balance.

Floki

we cant survive properly in toe to toe fights like the other classes can.
that's our problem. people see us as a thorn in the side that's easily removed.

Fingolfinn01

on a positive note they are good thieves

WalksonGraves

UnversedNumber3 wrote: »

ZOS bases their nerfs and buffs off of game data and users that actually give ideas on how to fix the problem. Not what you all think should be nerfed.

If you want to help give constructive feedback. Dont make forms titled "Stop nerfing night blades"

If you find some useful data or statistics that ZOS can use to improve the game please share it. Your opinion dosent go very far on game production.