To Everyone Claiming Stam DKs Are So OP

Vapirko

I get so many tells in PvP when I kill someone, and here so much bs on this forum. Go out and try playing one if you're one of the people yelling on the forums about how the nerfs are so needed. Feel free to post your videos of how very OP you suddenly become. Since so many people seem to know how OP they are and have yelled until they got nerfed into the ground I would love some enlightenment from these people on how to to play them so well. In fact real sustain is quite difficult on a stam DK. Anyone can permablock and spam heals on a big resource pool. But I'm just curious to hear from people who think they're so OP.

Waffennacht

Vapirko wrote: »

I get so many tells in PvP when I kill someone, and here so much bs on this forum. Go out and try playing one if you're one of the people yelling on the forums about how the nerfs are so needed. Feel free to post your videos of how very OP you suddenly become. Since so many people seem to know how OP they are and have yelled until they got nerfed into the ground I would love some enlightenment from these people on how to to play them so well. In fact real sustain is quite difficult on a stam DK. Anyone can permablock and spam heals on a big resource pool. But I'm just curious to hear from people who think they're so OP.

You're not a sorc?! Lmao, everything and everyone is OP.

I demand that you be nerfed

Imo, no, stamDK is not OP

FlyLionel

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

NBrookus

If my stam DK fought one of my mag DKs, my stam DK would win every time. Access to all the utility of DK skills, all the single target damage and burst potential of the weapon lines, Major Mending, a powerful HoT and more mobility than mag DK. Put a stam DK in heavy armor and they are super tanky and have tons of sustain and damage while being very, very forgiving of mistakes. Medium armor DKs can dish out even more damage, but heavy armor synergizes so well with the class at the moment it's not worth the tradeoff.

Stam DK is easily one of of the strongest open world classes right now on live. Next patch... probably not.

Waffennacht

NBrookus wrote: »

If my stam DK fought one of my mag DKs, my stam DK would win every time. Access to all the utility of DK skills, all the single target damage and burst potential of the weapon lines, Major Mending, a powerful HoT and more mobility than mag DK. Put a stam DK in heavy armor and they are super tanky and have tons of sustain and damage while being very, very forgiving of mistakes. Medium armor DKs can dish out even more damage, but heavy armor synergizes so well with the class at the moment it's not worth the tradeoff.

Stam DK is easily one of of the strongest open world classes right now on live. Next patch... probably not.

See that just sounds like a solid class, I think too many people don't truly know what OP is. Not saying you said that mind you.

Of course there will be a better choice over others, that does not mean it's OP.

To those out there claiming everything under the sun is OP

Joy_Division

Waffennacht wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If my stam DK fought one of my mag DKs, my stam DK would win every time. Access to all the utility of DK skills, all the single target damage and burst potential of the weapon lines, Major Mending, a powerful HoT and more mobility than mag DK. Put a stam DK in heavy armor and they are super tanky and have tons of sustain and damage while being very, very forgiving of mistakes. Medium armor DKs can dish out even more damage, but heavy armor synergizes so well with the class at the moment it's not worth the tradeoff.

Stam DK is easily one of of the strongest open world classes right now on live. Next patch... probably not.

See that just sounds like a solid class, I think too many people don't truly know what OP is. Not saying you said that mind you.

Of course there will be a better choice over others, that does not mean it's OP.

To those out there claiming everything under the sun is OP

The problem is, not every class is as "solid."

The bigger problem is that ZoS seeks to correct these disparities via class nerfs and generic buffs through things like gear and the CP system.

Durham

Right now in PVP on the test the stam DK is a joke

Durham

NBrookus wrote: »

If my stam DK fought one of my mag DKs, my stam DK would win every time. Access to all the utility of DK skills, all the single target damage and burst potential of the weapon lines, Major Mending, a powerful HoT and more mobility than mag DK. Put a stam DK in heavy armor and they are super tanky and have tons of sustain and damage while being very, very forgiving of mistakes. Medium armor DKs can dish out even more damage, but heavy armor synergizes so well with the class at the moment it's not worth the tradeoff.

Stam DK is easily one of of the strongest open world classes right now on live. Next patch... probably not.

Not probably..... they will be the worst keep in mind a stam DK is a single target DPS that is also a stand your ground meta..... so they are naturally going to be the best at dueling ..however this setup is only good for small man setups... they lack mobility for solo... they lack solid AOE for large setups....

RajinPVP

Live=stam dk op ... pts=Terrible and needs to be deleted as a class. Nough said.

Durham

FlyLionel wrote: »

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

Ingenous is 900 stamina on test .... can t spam it can only cast this 4500 cost spell 2 times ... keep in mind you armor spell is magicka also it's expensive also...

4500 magicka for 900 stamina is not logical when you have only 14k to 16kmagicka... and you have to also utilize another magicka spell...

Metemsycosis

I think we haven't come up with proper counter play to the Stamdk in one on one situations. They have it all so it's hard to build for high penetration, to debuff heals, to reliably break block, to out dps vigor rally and health recovery with mostly melee skills (unless you're a squishy night blade and have fun with that match up) - and defend against dots, snares, dizzying swing, leap, executioner while fossilized. I think though this class is balanced, not op, and could serve as a model for class balancing generally.

ETA: there's only one stam dk I know of that can beat me regularly -- most others struggle to balance damage and survivability. If they hit hard I can defend myself and return fire. If I can't damage them they can't damage me either.

Vapirko

FlyLionel wrote: »

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

I'd agree with what you say at the end here. And that's exactly my point. Right now stam DK are one of the most BALANCED classes. But they are definitely not OP. And if they are OP then so are sorcs and those aren't getting touched. Last night in tf I fought a sorc with six other people who could endlessly streak and shield away, far tankier than most DKs I run into. Right now DKs can put out decent adamage without the fast paced bursts of the other classes, and can obviously tank very well but they will sacrifice damage. A lot of good players who used to main stam DKs have long since switched. The one simple fact is that Stam DKs are in a good place balance wise. They're not OP in any sense. They may be easier to use initially, but unless you're playing mag there's very little opportunity to use class skills, we use no burst spam, our heals are ok but other classes have more options, we have a laughable shield that only servers the purpose of major mending. If you run into lag on a stam DK you're basically just a slow moving target. I ageee that in perfect cyrodill conditions Stam DKs are very powerful contenders. But I know that with the current patch notes being put out, that for the average player in average cyrodill the DK and especially stam DK is dead.

mbn89

Stam Nightblade....hate ittttttt

Airyus

Nerf sorc

D0ntevenL1ft

Pick up a shield and block someones attacks and everyone thinks you're OP.

Alphaa

Stam DK's just punish people for their mistakes a lot easier than other set ups.

And when people are afraid to admit they made a mistake, they blame the thing that made them make the mistakes.

NBrookus

I do think stam DKs are overtuned. No class should be so forgiving of player mistakes while still being so powerful when others make mistakes. By comparison, mag sorcs are very strong, but VERY unforgiving. Mess up your shields and you are dead. That to me is more balanced. A bad sorc is very easy to kill. Magplars are very forgiving, but slow to capitalize on the mistakes of others. Again, more balanced.

But I don't think stam DK deserved the nerf sledgehammer, and I sure as hell don't think mag DK did.

Vapirko

NBrookus wrote: »

I do think stam DKs are overtuned. No class should be so forgiving of player mistakes while still being so powerful when others make mistakes. By comparison, mag sorcs are very strong, but VERY unforgiving. Mess up your shields and you are dead. That to me is more balanced. A bad sorc is very easy to kill. Magplars are very forgiving, but slow to capitalize on the mistakes of others. Again, more balanced.

But I don't think stam DK deserved the nerf sledgehammer, and I sure as hell don't think mag DK did.

Magplars have crazy burst potential with jabs and seem pretty well equipped to take advantage of screw ups. Sorcs sure if you mess up with shields you're done, but they also have very strong heals, can camp mines, have frags which is insanely powerful. So there's a lot of options for counterplay.

Vapirko

What I'm really gathering from these comments is that people feel like DKs have more utility and can be suited to a very wide range of situations. However, this is definitely not the same as being OP. Stam/Mag DKs do not dominate the field in any sense. But, because of much complaining by people who don't know what they're taking about DKs are now set to loose this utility in a big way, and along with it the only real reason to play them. I would really like to here from ZOS why they are hitting DKs so hard.

Allu07neb18_ESO

some stam DK builds are littlebit op in live. the problem is not stam dk it is heavy armor, cp system, shield ultimate and certain sets.

Brrrofski

On live, some Stam DK setups are op.

Put fury, wearwolf hide and bloodspawn on a dk. So much stronger than anything else other Stam classes can do.

But the nerfs on pts are way too much. It's zero uptime on major mending. It's pointless. Heavy armor and cp is the issue.

Next patch, stamblade will outheal Stam do in PvP if they use leeching. Believe that.

olsborg

Stamdks needed the nerfs tho, maybe not all of them, but the helping hands and batteroar sure was needed.

kyle.wilson

Vapirko wrote: »

I get so many tells in PvP when I kill someone, and here so much bs on this forum. Go out and try playing one if you're one of the people yelling on the forums about how the nerfs are so needed. Feel free to post your videos of how very OP you suddenly become. Since so many people seem to know how OP they are and have yelled until they got nerfed into the ground I would love some enlightenment from these people on how to to play them so well. In fact real sustain is quite difficult on a stam DK. Anyone can permablock and spam heals on a big resource pool. But I'm just curious to hear from people who think they're so OP.

Most of the crying about op builds in pvp are usually talking about the do nothing tank builds. So many pugs get tricked by the shiny.
https://youtu.be/8whTWQ-RHkk
I've stood on top of these people doing nothing to prove to the pugs just how harmless their builds are. I took 0 damage in 2 min.
It takes a "special" kind of person to run one of those builds. But, none of those builds are op, its just that pugs rarely take the 5 min to learn how to counter the play.

The only people I see running blazing builds anymore are pvers that watched 6 month a old youtube vid.

WhiteMage

Magplars can build so that they can make mistakes but not be able to capitalize on them, but don't believe for a second they can't rip you a new one in a different build either. You don't see many of them around these days (I ragequit 3 hours ago when I saw ANOTHER relactive magplar in an EP zerg... smdh y'all are giving us a bad name!) but if you make a mistake against a light armored PvP-dps magplar without some group support, you just got rekt.

davey1107

Stam DKs might only be OP owing to the general power creep. They're intended to have high health, tackiness, with lower dps and sustain issues. The CP power creep has skin away resource management, so they've maxed their damage output with gear and the best ability spams and they overperform.

If resource manage,end coming back works well, the problem should fix itself.

Vapirko

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I get so many tells in PvP when I kill someone, and here so much bs on this forum. Go out and try playing one if you're one of the people yelling on the forums about how the nerfs are so needed. Feel free to post your videos of how very OP you suddenly become. Since so many people seem to know how OP they are and have yelled until they got nerfed into the ground I would love some enlightenment from these people on how to to play them so well. In fact real sustain is quite difficult on a stam DK. Anyone can permablock and spam heals on a big resource pool. But I'm just curious to hear from people who think they're so OP.

Most of the crying about op builds in pvp are usually talking about the do nothing tank builds. So many pugs get tricked by the shiny.
https://youtu.be/8whTWQ-RHkk
I've stood on top of these people doing nothing to prove to the pugs just how harmless their builds are. I took 0 damage in 2 min.
It takes a "special" kind of person to run one of those builds. But, none of those builds are op, its just that pugs rarely take the 5 min to learn how to counter the play.

The only people I see running blazing builds anymore are pvers that watched 6 month a old youtube vid.

And yet the class is now being punished because of that? Seems shortsighted.

NBrookus

WhiteMage wrote: »

Magplars can build so that they can make mistakes but not be able to capitalize on them, but don't believe for a second they can't rip you a new one in a different build either. You don't see many of them around these days (I ragequit 3 hours ago when I saw ANOTHER relactive magplar in an EP zerg... smdh y'all are giving us a bad name!) but if you make a mistake against a light armored PvP-dps magplar without some group support, you just got rekt.

Oh I agree, but with magplar there's a trade-off. As it should be. Likewise there are some incredibly tanky heavy armor sorcs, magblades and mag DKs, but they are not going to 2-3 shot you. Put a stam DK in WW Hide, Bloodspawn and Fury/7th Legion and there is no tradeoff. That's the builds I think were being "punished," but ZOS has a bad track record of realizing how OP certain sets and combinations can be and is reluctant to fix the problems at the source.

The problem was how to tone down stam DKs while not removing what little mag DKs had going for them. They did not succeed.

Biro123

How I see it..

Can't kill the average stamDK without at least 4 others beating on him - and that's probably just cos my burst Is pretty insane at the mo.

Avg StamDK kills me very quick as soon as I make a mistake or run out of mag OR stam. StamDK's sustain for ever.

Some good StamDK's out there who's health doesn't budge when I unload a full burst - and 2-shot me with leap/dizzying/heavy attack combo once all their buffs are up.

When in trouble I see most of them just mistform to a rock they can run around - and a bit of talons spam nicely reduces the amount of attackers at any one time.


Now I don't play DK and so don't really understand the class - but next to my OP sorc, StamDK looks OP. But I know a lot of this is perception - some builds can tank everything - some can't. Some hit really hard, some don't.

But the nerfs man, on paper they look harsh, really harsh..

NBrookus

@Biro123 A mistforming, talons DK is probably a magicka DK. LoS when outnumbered is essential to a class with little burst; you need to peel people off from their healer's LoS and have a few seconds to work on the one that chased the fastest. Or just find a better spot to fight multiple people in.

The alternative is what, to stand there and die? Wrobel may think you are just supposed to die when you are outnumbered, but that doesn't mean you have to give up.

Biro123

NBrookus wrote: »

@Biro123 A mistforming, talons DK is probably a magicka DK. LoS when outnumbered is essential to a class with little burst; you need to peel people off from their healer's LoS and have a few seconds to work on the one that chased the fastest. Or just find a better spot to fight multiple people in.

The alternative is what, to stand there and die? Wrobel may think you are just supposed to die when you are outnumbered, but that doesn't mean you have to give up.

I'm sure I've seen plenty of stamDK's mistform to make space too - probably with a sprinkling of mag pots too - ofc not as much as a magDK does..

But as I say, these things are often perception based.. people see stuff that a class does and just assume all builds can do it - as well as everything that other builds do too. . I see it with sorcs all the time :-)

FlyLionel

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

Ingenous is 900 stamina on test .... can t spam it can only cast this 4500 cost spell 2 times ... keep in mind you armor spell is magicka also it's expensive also...

4500 magicka for 900 stamina is not logical when you have only 14k to 16kmagicka... and you have to also utilize another magicka spell...

@Durham I'm speaking not in universal terms but just tanking(what I main now). We spam igneous to get our stam back up when in dire need(tanking 6 mini bosses on the last round of VDSA with no healer). Even since a while ago 2h/bow igneous spam was a thing...I'm confused; so you're saying it's not logical to spam igneous when out of stamina as a stamina character? Alright.

@Vapirko I agree, they won't be dead next patch though; it'll just take more skill now to use(CC or igneous dodgeroll into vigor/rally).