Housing-Furnishing-putting Books to Bookshelf

Gargath

Not a new thing since I already read a bit about it here, but want to address it as a bug because lack of interaction between books and bookshelfs is not only very annoying but also means we loose mats and money on crafting or purchasing things which are in fact not usable.

As an example - nord bookshelfs, I crafted and placed 4 to create a nice galery of books, then I bought all lorebooks for ~85k gold, just to realise that I cannot put any of these books inside!

With Surface Drag On I cannot put books inside, so they can just "float" outside - not acceptable.
With Surface Drag Off I can put books inside, but once I did it, they are "consumed" by the bookshelf and not readable (not interactable) from now on - not acceptable.

Honestly I've no idea why do you ZOS created empty bookshelf and so many readable books, if they cannot react together. Should I put inside those books just to see a library without actually read anything? That's a completely bad design. And now once I spent so much gold on damaged functionality I feel like being cheated by devs who could not make it properly and didn't make any warning.

Do you even work on this issue ZOS or you don't care about our problems?

Couldn't you do the attunable bookshelfs treated like containers to which the books would be added and from now on placed automatically on fixed places, no need to manually position and all readable? should not be hard...

Gargath

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Could you please write if you consider this a bug or not and is it on your to-do list?

Anyone could share their knowledge about which bookshelf (if any) actually let us read books that are put inside?
Is the Orcish bookshelf readable, as was stated in the thread linked above?

Teulisch

additionally, i have found placement of books on the floor under or beside a trestle table also prevents reading them, however those atop the table are fine (easiest placement). i suspect that all furniture has an invisible 'box' that occludes.

to solve this, it would be nice if we had a green/yellow highlight for books similar to chairs that would show if it was still accessible. a mechanic already exists, it just needs to be applied more broadly.

Gargath

I managed to solve the puzzle with bookshelf and used a simple plank and put all books from mage guild series on this plank. A bit of work but I love the effect and have all books in one place ready to read .

kaffeend

I just purchased the furnished version of a home, only to discover that the only objects I can activate are candles. I too have empty bookshelves that cannot have books placed on them. I expected a bookshelf to be a container for books, like the bookshelves in Skyrim. I expected the containers like dressers to allow storage, like the ones in Skyrim (and every Bethesda game). What I have is terrible. I can't even sit on my chairs!

Hippie4927

kaffeend wrote: »

I just purchased the furnished version of a home, only to discover that the only objects I can activate are candles. I too have empty bookshelves that cannot have books placed on them. I expected a bookshelf to be a container for books, like the bookshelves in Skyrim. I expected the containers like dressers to allow storage, like the ones in Skyrim (and every Bethesda game). What I have is terrible. I can't even sit on my chairs!

I purchased the furnished version of Earthtear Cavern. In order to use the chairs, I had to pickup and put back down every single chair in the house. Once I did that, they were sittable.

kaffeend

@Hippie4927 Thanks! Thankfully my abode isn't as cavernous as yours.

Stopnaggin

I use the racial design shelves to store book, I would be nice to use an actual bookshelf, hopefully it will get fixed

metal4k

I also have the same issue, after purchasing all collections, over 150000g, went to place in bookcases,denied. This system is wack. The system from Skyrim would work. I emailed them to explain. There response was basically oh we're sorry, go to the forum to complain there. "Because that's how things get fixed" ie glitched out gap closers, bugged out areas not rendering, pvp balancing, and the rest. But, hey we'll sell you mounts for 4k crowns and higher. Long time elder scrolls fan, first time MMO player. Growing more disappointed over time.

Stopnaggin

metal4k wrote: »

I also have the same issue, after purchasing all collections, over 150000g, went to place in bookcases,denied. This system is wack. The system from Skyrim would work. I emailed them to explain. There response was basically oh we're sorry, go to the forum to complain there. "Because that's how things get fixed" ie glitched out gap closers, bugged out areas not rendering, pvp balancing, and the rest. But, hey we'll sell you mounts for 4k crowns and higher. Long time elder scrolls fan, first time MMO player. Growing more disappointed over time.

Unfortunately it's true, I have been a fan boy of eso, but all the bugs that effect actual gameplay are getting out of hand. Don't get me wrong, getting exploits fixed is important, but why can't we get simple things fixed. Ie runestones that dissappear when picking them up, books that fit on an actual bookshelf, gap closer that don't make me fall through the map, actual rendering when entering a zone. Also some quality of life improvement would be nice, an actual search function for guild stores, being able to mail bulk messages to my guild, more than a 6 item limit in mail and trades.

metal4k

Long time Elder Scrolls fan, first time MMO player. Love this game, been playing since console launch, (Xbox) NA. Still not happy with bookcases, why do some racial style bookcases appear full of books, and others don't? It would be great if they offered it in every style bookcase. Hopefully in the future.

idk

It is odd that a bookshelf cannot be a bookshelf. I understand chests not opening. However, book shelves just needed to be tall enough to handle a book properly.

purple-magicb16_ESO

This bug still exists with Nord Bookshelf, Alcove. Any interactive (readable) books placed on its shelves render them unusable. The larger version, Nord Bookcase, Alcove however works fine. Does anyone know if they have plans to revisit this?

Titain

lol this is not a bug, but to understand this you need to understand 3-D modeling, and that all 3-D models have what is called a bounding box. you will not be able to touch an object that is inside another objects bounding box, this is why you have no interaction with a book inside the bounding box, of the book shelf. it's not a bug. want to read a book put it on a table, or a shelf where the book is outside the bounding box of the object it is on top of. the only reason you may touch something inside a house is because you your self are inside the houses bounding box.
It is possible to create a custom bounding box giving the object a physical shape, but doing this also give an object a much higher rendering value, and make the object very heavy. if this method of building where to be used in ESO you could kiss your FPS good bye.
the only actual time this is needed to be done, is for a door way to allow your avatar to pass through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIx6qLsULUQ

Araneae6537

Both the Alinor and Wood Elf bookshelves are useable, at least so long as you have the books positioned near the front of the shelf (I suspect that is the problem you’re encountering with the Nord bookshelves). If you’re on PC, I would highly recommend using EHT add-on to fine tune book placement.

While I’m all for increased options and functionality, I would not wish to lose the option to place books and other objects on bookshelves exactly how I like (I would want bookshelves to become “containers” for which I could not customize display of their contents).

Shadowshire

@Gargath @metal4k @Titain

FYI: although it can be a bit "tricky" and a time-consuming task (at least with the in-game Housing Editor), I have been able to store "Lore books" on Breton and Dark Elf bookshelves:

1. The distance between one shelf and another can require books to be placed "flat" on the shelf, but at least two or three can be placed in a stack.
   
   
   
2. For other bookshelves, some books must be placed with the binding "up" and one end of the book exposed in the opening of the bookshelf. (In the image below, note that the 4 books on the top shelf "clip" through the top of the bookcase.)
   
   
   

Each book in the above images has an Interactive Prompt (I.P.), which enables my character to open the book so that I can read it. However, the character must be able to stand close to the bookshelf or bookcase while opening a book, else the I.P. will not work.

I doubt that a character can sit on a furnishing while reading a book, but I have not attempted to do that. A character can sit on a floor or other surface by using the /sit emote, but I have never attempted to obtain an I.P. for an object after I used the /sit emote.

Albeit, as far as I know, when an I.P. is shown on the HUD for a book that is placed anywhere, then the character can open it (if the character is close enough to it, as noted above). So, a book cannot be read if the player places it in a location or orientation for which the game software will not display an I.P.

In my experience, often an I.P. will be displayed -- not only for books, but also for other interactive furnishings -- only after some careful adjustment of its height above a surface, and/or of its "pitch" and/or of its "yaw", etc. Also, sometimes an I.P. is shown, but it will not function until the location or position of the object is adjusted to make it possible.

Unfortunately, I have not had time enough to store more books on shelves than I have already placed. I do not have any experience with Nord or Alinor crafted bookshelves or bookcases. Also, I have not attempted to store any books in the built-in shelves of the Grand Psijic Villa on the island of Artaeum, which is the only homestead that I currently own that has any such.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Titain wrote: »

lol this is not a bug, but to understand this you need to understand 3-D modeling, and that all 3-D models have what is called a bounding box. you will not be able to touch an object that is inside another objects bounding box, this is why you have no interaction with a book inside the bounding box, of the book shelf. it's not a bug. want to read a book put it on a table, or a shelf where the book is outside the bounding box of the object it is on top of. the only reason you may touch something inside a house is because you your self are inside the houses bounding box.
It is possible to create a custom bounding box giving the object a physical shape, but doing this also give an object a much higher rendering value, and make the object very heavy. if this method of building where to be used in ESO you could kiss your FPS good bye.
the only actual time this is needed to be done, is for a door way to allow your avatar to pass through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIx6qLsULUQ

Yes you do need to understand it. Some bookshelves allow this while others do not? Yes for sure it's a bug without a doubt. Only programmers with limited ability would say that it's impossible to achieve this and that it has anything to do with fps.

Shadowshire

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_AntonioP

idk wrote: »

It is odd that a bookshelf cannot be a bookshelf. I understand chests not opening. However, book shelves just needed to be tall enough to handle a book properly.

The basic problem in this issue is that the lorebooks which are available for the players to obtain and place in bookcases and on bookshelves are much, much larger than the ones that appear in-game.

The ZOS developers should down-size the lorebooks which our characters obtain so that they can be stored in the furnishings (which are the same size as the corresponding furnishings that appear in-game). This should not be hard to do with an OOP software design.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Shadowshire wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_AntonioP

idk wrote: »

It is odd that a bookshelf cannot be a bookshelf. I understand chests not opening. However, book shelves just needed to be tall enough to handle a book properly.

The basic problem in this issue is that the lorebooks which are available for the players to obtain and place in bookcases and on bookshelves are much, much larger than the ones that appear in-game.

The ZOS developers should down-size the lorebooks which our characters obtain so that they can be stored in the furnishings (which are the same size as the corresponding furnishings that appear in-game). This should not be hard to do with an OOP software design.

Well said. Thank you for clarifying. I agree 100%

c363b

I used a mod in Skyrim that allowed very simple placement and arranging of books on bookshelves in game-provided or mod- created houses. If an author of a mod could manage that, why can't the presumably much more advanced ZOS developers do the same?

Shadowshire

c363b wrote: »

I used a mod in Skyrim that allowed very simple placement and arranging of books on bookshelves in game-provided or mod- created houses. If an author of a mod could manage that, why can't the presumably much more advanced ZOS developers do the same?

FWIW, I have been playing TESO almost every day for at least 5 years. Obviously, TESO is not "Skyrim".

In my humble opinion, the issue is probably not the skill and experience of the ZOS developers (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary). Rather, it is whether the ZOS managers allow the developers enough time to make the effort to do it right. Producing good quality, reliable, and correctly functioning software requires time to apply the developer's knowledge, skill, and effort. As the adage says, " Rome was not built in a day."

Because of the governing financial plan to profit by producing at least one Chapter and three DLCs each year, producing executable source code quickly, regardless of errors, is strongly emphasized. (That practice is called "quick and dirty programming" AKA "agile development"). There doesn't seem to be any Quality Assurance team to test for bugs and design flaws before the software is released to the PTS. Nor are there many -- if any -- maintenance programmers, only developers.

There is nothing inherently wrong with such a financial plan. However, the cost of the resources to produce software worth using while achieving those goals is evidently beyond what Zenimax Online Media, Inc. (the Zenimax Online Services owner) is willing to invest.

As long as players are willing to continue buying the ZOS bugware, that is what they will be using to play TESO.

If you do not find it acceptable, then don't buy it. The quick and dirty hack of the core game design to implement Tamriel One was inspired by the discovery that the solo-player game (The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim) was the biggest "competitor" to TESO. Evidently, whether enough of the software sells is the only concern to which Zenimax management will pay much of their attention.

[snip]

[edited to remove political comments]