How different would ESO be if it pushed it's 'M' rating?

WalksonGraves

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

First time I hacked apart some bandits like I'm The Hound and watched their limbs fly I fell in love with that game.

SydneyGrey

I'm fine with that, but only if you can toggle off the gore. I don't want to make myself sick every time I slice them with a sword. LOL! Yes, I know it's more realistic, but that blade of woe animation is graphic enough for me.
But if you could toggle the gore on or off as an option, that would be great. I'm a huge fan of players having multiple options.

dday3six

The game would lag worst than it does now without trimming somewhere else and people would likely be offended.

More visceral combat would be interesting, but I think much of the direct impact would get washed out unless you played zoomed in or first person. Something I don't do, and in my experience most don't either. IMO the game is not set up in the best way to display the visual weight of more brutal combat.

I like my characters to be aesthetically pleasing, but I don't have an overwhelming desire to see them nude. Nor does the prospect of fat orcs frolicking in the buff sound all that intriguing. Ultimately though I don't care if the game has nudity or not.

Jitterbug

Breast implants in crown crates you say?

Let's go!

ArchMikem

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I'm fine with that, but only if you can toggle off the gore. I don't want to make myself sick every time I slice them with a sword. LOL! Yes, I know it's more realistic, but that blade of woe animation is graphic enough for me.
But if you could toggle the gore on or off as an option, that would be great. I'm a huge fan of players having multiple options.

I agree, I know you can't toggle the effects themselves of the Blade of Woe, but I did turn off the Assassination Camera. Put way too much emphasis on me stabbing someone in the throat.

Don't know why I mentioned dismemberment cause that would be somewhat of a physics nightmare. But something as simple as dirtying your bladed weapon whenever you do a physical attack would be leagues better. And about the Nudity, perhaps just removing the tops on female characters would be enough, since the lower bits are far more controversial, and even though lady bits are easier to hide, I highly doubt people want to see every male's Rod of Stendarr flopping in the breeze all the time.

theher0not

If they pushed for it

"the Lusty Argonian Maid" would have pictures too

As for adding "mature" stuff I'd be ok with if there is an option to toggle it on and off.

Browiseth

Elder scrolls has more or less always been afraid to tackle mature themes, instead preferring to look onward from the distance and make awkward jokes in its discomfort on the topic

Its part of why i consider Dragon Age and The Witcher to be far better fantasy games

Kiralyn2000

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

Ugh, Witcher. Was never able to get past the first game. Just. Don't. Like. Geralt.

(also, kind of tired of the whole "dark & gritty" movement of the past few years. No, I have no interest in watching Game of Thrones. )

Browiseth

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

Ugh, Witcher. Was never able to get past the first game. Just. Don't. Like. Geralt.

(also, kind of tired of the whole "dark & gritty" movement of the past few years. No, I have no interest in watching Game of Thrones. )

Odd that you describe "dark and gritty" as a movement. Its not like dark fantasy is a hip new thing or anything

danno8

I always think it's funny watching naked characters trying to have sex in a video game. Even with really good character models like in Witcher 3 or something, the models always look like stiff robots going through the motions with fake animations and expressions, and the fact that they can't quite touch each other or else their vertices will clip and ruin the already terrible level of immersion.

I think nudes would be funny, since it would require an anatomical explanation for Argonians and Khajiit which would never satisfy anyone.

Blood and gore is ok, but honestly only cool for the first 10 times you see every animation, then it just fades into the background and you ignore it evermore after that.

So I am not against any of it, but I am not sure it would be worth the hassle of all the attention it would get from parents who can't keep tabs on their kids playing habits.

Kiralyn2000

Browiseth wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

Ugh, Witcher. Was never able to get past the first game. Just. Don't. Like. Geralt.

(also, kind of tired of the whole "dark & gritty" movement of the past few years. No, I have no interest in watching Game of Thrones. )

Odd that you describe "dark and gritty" as a movement. Its not like dark fantasy is a hip new thing or anything

Guess I just remember it as being a Big Thing that everyone was gushing over, from around the time the first Dragon Age came out (at least, in the video game world). Sure, Dark & Gritty existed, but I don't remember it being a super-mainstream thing in games/movies/TV until the last decade or so. Eh, whatever.

WalksonGraves

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

Ugh, Witcher. Was never able to get past the first game. Just. Don't. Like. Geralt.

(also, kind of tired of the whole "dark & gritty" movement of the past few years. No, I have no interest in watching Game of Thrones. )

Well you just robbed yourself of seeing the best fantasy ever put on screen.

komodozermike

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

Ugh, Witcher. Was never able to get past the first game. Just. Don't. Like. Geralt.

(also, kind of tired of the whole "dark & gritty" movement of the past few years. No, I have no interest in watching Game of Thrones. )

I refuse to play any game where I don't design my own character (which is why I have zero interest in Breath of the Wild as well).

Thanks a lot, Bethesda.

Browiseth

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

Ugh, Witcher. Was never able to get past the first game. Just. Don't. Like. Geralt.

(also, kind of tired of the whole "dark & gritty" movement of the past few years. No, I have no interest in watching Game of Thrones. )

Odd that you describe "dark and gritty" as a movement. Its not like dark fantasy is a hip new thing or anything

Guess I just remember it as being a Big Thing that everyone was gushing over, from around the time the first Dragon Age came out (at least, in the video game world). Sure, Dark & Gritty existed, but I don't remember it being a super-mainstream thing in games/movies/TV until the last decade or so. Eh, whatever.

@Kiralyn2000 the 80's are a wonderous cesspool of raunchy fantasy B-movies, so it's hardly a recent development that "the kids" are only enjoying, you closet hipster you

speaking of Dragon Age, i wish elder scrolls would tackle the darker themes like those games do. there's a reason why "argonian slavery" is usually joked about amongst the community; because the games always shy away from showing how awful it must be and subsequently leaving a gross taste in your mouth like Dragon Age's depiction of elven opression
just as an example

by the way i like Dragon Age

Browiseth

komodozermike wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

Ugh, Witcher. Was never able to get past the first game. Just. Don't. Like. Geralt.

(also, kind of tired of the whole "dark & gritty" movement of the past few years. No, I have no interest in watching Game of Thrones. )

I refuse to play any game where I don't design my own character (which is why I have zero interest in Breath of the Wild as well).

Thanks a lot, Bethesda.

why though? a pre-written and established character will always be more interesting (and subsequently result in a more interesting story) than any player-designed protaganist made silent and blank to accomodate that player choice

MarshRangerHaz

Mature storytelling would be good, as long as it doesn't tip into the 'edgy teen fanfiction' realm. Just using an M rating to show some blood and boobies would be a waste.

WalksonGraves

komodozermike wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Reading this topic makes me wish CD Projekt would make an MMO set in The Witcher universe.

Ugh, Witcher. Was never able to get past the first game. Just. Don't. Like. Geralt.

(also, kind of tired of the whole "dark & gritty" movement of the past few years. No, I have no interest in watching Game of Thrones. )

I refuse to play any game where I don't design my own character (which is why I have zero interest in Breath of the Wild as well).

Thanks a lot, Bethesda.

I'm usually the same way, I have a lvl 300 character in gta online and am 15% of the way through single player. Witcher I got in to after several failed attempts by my brother to convince me.

Rohamad_Ali

Kharnis

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm talking like fleshed out Gore in combat mechanics such as dismemberment from physical attacks, blood on your sword from jabbing with Ransack, etc. Or including full on nudity for character models when you don't have anything equipped. The pros would be the fanbase actually praising ZOS for once for giving us an experience that allows more of the nitty gritty, the cons however would force more parents to keep this game out of the hands of their kids they let play, not to mention the expected flesh parties that would take place in every player hub.

Then there's the obvious question of, "does the game even need that stuff?" Need? Of course not, it's fine as is, and the problems that kind of mature, adult content could and or would create probably may outweigh any kind of beneficial outcome to our gaming experience. But just for poops n' giggles anyway, how would you as the player react to a bit more of a darker, red light district Elder Scrolls? Would it enhance your experience in the game world, or would you just discard that armor and dance like a dark elf in front of people trying to use the Banker.

I partially agree with you. I've always said Zeni should own their "M" rating, but I don't want to necessarily go as far as you wish. Gore? Sure. Within reason. Having fountains of blood every time you hack into someone or something would get comical after a while. But the occasional spray or spatter of it, such as when a critical hit is made? Sure. Dismemberment is too far, in my opinion, as that gets old quickly, too.

Nudity is also not needed. But the showing of skin? Absolutely. Especially with some NPC outfits and the costumes. I like the chainmail bikini as much as the next person, but I rather like the armours the artists have come up with. Some of them, mostly in the medium armours (in my personal opinion) look damn good on characters, even if they're covering up the body.
So, since I'm a big believer in player choice, give us a choice: players can have their characters wear costumes if they want that so-called sexy look, and the players who want "realism" (which always made me laugh in a game with magic and the ability for characters to survive a hit to the head with a mace, especially while wearing a cloth cap) can show their armour.

More important than anything, though, is that Zeni needs to get a lock on the atmosphere of the game. This is supposed to be a world where society broke down (the Empire) and the various warlords are trying to fill the vacuum (the Alliances). And this is on top of a number of supernatural threats that have decided this is a great time to start making trouble. The world should feel dangerous, and un-natural. A lot can be said against The Secret World (and it has), but the one thing they nailed was how dark and dangerous and creepy the world felt. That is what the game should be aiming for. It should feel extremely unsafe to step outside the city walls, especially at night. It doesn't have to actually be more dangerous than it currently is, it just has to feel it. For instance, there's a cabin in Stormhaven called "Uncle Sheo's Cabin." There's no one in it, and only a single note amongst a bunch of...well, stuff, we'll call it. Creepy as hell, though. This is what there should be more of in the game, only ramped up to an 11 here and there. They came close in Rivenspire, but didn't quite hit the mark.

Browiseth

Kharnis wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm talking like fleshed out Gore in combat mechanics such as dismemberment from physical attacks, blood on your sword from jabbing with Ransack, etc. Or including full on nudity for character models when you don't have anything equipped. The pros would be the fanbase actually praising ZOS for once for giving us an experience that allows more of the nitty gritty, the cons however would force more parents to keep this game out of the hands of their kids they let play, not to mention the expected flesh parties that would take place in every player hub.

Then there's the obvious question of, "does the game even need that stuff?" Need? Of course not, it's fine as is, and the problems that kind of mature, adult content could and or would create probably may outweigh any kind of beneficial outcome to our gaming experience. But just for poops n' giggles anyway, how would you as the player react to a bit more of a darker, red light district Elder Scrolls? Would it enhance your experience in the game world, or would you just discard that armor and dance like a dark elf in front of people trying to use the Banker.

I partially agree with you. I've always said Zeni should own their "M" rating, but I don't want to necessarily go as far as you wish. Gore? Sure. Within reason. Having fountains of blood every time you hack into someone or something would get comical after a while. But the occasional spray or spatter of it, such as when a critical hit is made? Sure. Dismemberment is too far, in my opinion, as that gets old quickly, too.

Nudity is also not needed. But the showing of skin? Absolutely. Especially with some NPC outfits and the costumes. I like the chainmail bikini as much as the next person, but I rather like the armours the artists have come up with. Some of them, mostly in the medium armours (in my personal opinion) look damn good on characters, even if they're covering up the body.
So, since I'm a big believer in player choice, give us a choice: players can have their characters wear costumes if they want that so-called sexy look, and the players who want "realism" (which always made me laugh in a game with magic and the ability for characters to survive a hit to the head with a mace, especially while wearing a cloth cap) can show their armour.

More important than anything, though, is that Zeni needs to get a lock on the atmosphere of the game. This is supposed to be a world where society broke down (the Empire) and the various warlords are trying to fill the vacuum (the Alliances). And this is on top of a number of supernatural threats that have decided this is a great time to start making trouble. The world should feel dangerous, and un-natural. A lot can be said against The Secret World (and it has), but the one thing they nailed was how dark and dangerous and creepy the world felt. That is what the game should be aiming for. It should feel extremely unsafe to step outside the city walls, especially at night. It doesn't have to actually be more dangerous than it currently is, it just has to feel it. For instance, there's a cabin in Stormhaven called "Uncle Sheo's Cabin." There's no one in it, and only a single note amongst a bunch of...well, stuff, we'll call it. Creepy as hell, though. This is what there should be more of in the game, only ramped up to an 11 here and there. They came close in Rivenspire, but didn't quite hit the mark.

it's good to see someone else understands that "mature themes" are more than just gratuitous sex and violence

there really should've been more focus put into the worldbuilding of the darker side of this society; a world that could be full of mistrust, political complexity, racial tension and outright violent bigotry, etc.

by extension this is something that should be applied to the franchise as a whole, if they're so intent on keeping their M ratings

Balamoor

The conan MMO pushed it's M theme....it drew the most immature Bevis and Buttheads on the planet, the community was one of the reasons Funcom more or less put it on maintenance mode.

The game is fine the way it is.

Kiralyn2000

WalksonGraves wrote: »

@Kiralyn2000 the 80's are a wonderous cesspool of raunchy fantasy B-movies, so it's hardly a recent development that "the kids" are only enjoying, you closet hipster you

Heh. Perhaps it's too long ago for me to remember, but I don't recall those as being "dark & gritty". Raunchy camp, sure.


(Dark & gritty to me, is all these "post modern" no-such-thing-as-good journeys through ambiguous morality. "Flawed anti-hero screws up and watches world fall into misery" instead of "Hero saves world!" That kind of stuff.)


...that said, I did enjoy (for a certain value of 'enjoy') my recent playthrough of Super Depressing World, er, Nier:Automata.

CapnPhoton

ES games are not about full on nudity, disproportionate or otherwise, nor is it necessary story wise. Other games rely on it to boost sales, but it really isn't necessary here. The gore is fine. If you want more gore, there are other games out there. As for the alcohol reference, it is likely because at least in North America there is a minimum drinking age (varies by region), and it's not 13.

idk

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Game is way too soft imo

@SHADOW2KK

Much that could be added cannot be added due to restrictions in other countries. This has been pointed out a few times in this thread. Zos does not really have a choice.

KochDerDamonen

In this game that we have?
Pffff-hahaha oh no kill me. It would be a total disconnect from the mood of the rest of the game, I wouldn't like it at all. I think that would manage to make it feel more kiddish.

In a fresh TES online, built from the ground up to be more serious?
I could see the dismemberment in a game with many less foes to be felled, executions and 1v(or 2 or 3 at once, maybe a few more in dungeons) combat taking priority. Assuming for some magical reason this just does not cause issues with corpses having to fade instantly or general performance screw-ery during larger combat.
Full nudity? No thanks, really. I cannot imagine this being done in a way that wouldn't just be a meme of development time. Some artist painstakingly rendering what an orc's weewee would look like while another dev has to work out the physics on that thing, all for someone to wobble around and laugh at for a few seconds before putting on some pants. Or if the player in question is a big fan of gutter/shock humour, never puts on pants again because "hehe xd it's a floppy dongle"

EDIT: Note to self, we are not adults here and we cannot talk about *** without referring to them with goofy words. This makes this conversation look much more mature

Kharnis wrote: »

Nudity is also not needed. But the showing of skin? Absolutely. Especially with some NPC outfits and the costumes. I like the chainmail bikini as much as the next person, but I rather like the armours the artists have come up with. Some of them, mostly in the medium armours (in my personal opinion) look damn good on characters, even if they're covering up the body. So, since I'm a big believer in player choice, give us a choice: players can have their characters wear costumes if they want that so-called sexy look, and the players who want "realism" (which always made me laugh in a game with magic and the ability for characters to survive a hit to the head with a mace, especially while wearing a cloth cap) can show their armour. .

It's nice in concept and all, but really a player like myself wouldn't be happy til we had a "*** armor off" button.

At least when there's a Skyrim mod for DDD-cup hourglass-figure broken-back-babes(tm) clad in the armor equivalent of a corset and thong, it effects me 0% by just not having it in to begin with. It doesn't belong in a game trying to hold any semblance of seriousness, in my opinion. That is not me hating on anyone for liking that sort of thing, it's me saying that in an MMO we all have to make sacrifices to have a game that thousands of us will get along at all in standing next to eachother. open-PvP hounds can't cut another player down in the streets, roleplayers can't own and run their own shops, hardcore PvErs don't have any one-time mega bosses to slay and have their name on a plaque, puzzlers are pretty much left out to dry entirely, explorers have very little that isn't found under a map marker, and gawkers don't have as much exposed flesh as they'd like.

FrancisCrawford

The health bar/healing mechanism that almost all RPGs have, including ESO, seems to conflict with any kind of combat "realism". Ditto resurrections.

But then, I don't want combat realism anyway. For example, I enjoy real-life fencing. But DWing at somebody with no attempt to defend myself doesn't seem like swordplay to me. (The Game of Thrones dual-wield fight was so awesome precisely because it's almost impossible to do. It really underscored the greatness of Sir Arthur Dayne.) Perhaps not coincidentally, I find magicka characters more fun than stamina ones.

As for sex and so on -- yeah, I'd love to take one of the dancer/prostitutes into my private room and have them dance naked. But alternative sources of *** are very easily available, so not having that is hardly a big deal.

And for those who question the game's "Maturity":

• There's quite a bit of gay marriage or romance in this game, and that makes some people queasy.
• There are a lot of references to people having casual sex, including at least one prostitute who proposes it to you.
• The Blade of Woe is of course rather gory.

KochDerDamonen

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

The health bar/healing mechanism that almost all RPGs have, including ESO, seems to conflict with any kind of combat "realism". Ditto resurrections.

But then, I don't want combat realism anyway. For example, I enjoy real-life fencing. But DWing at somebody with no attempt to defend myself doesn't seem like swordplay to me. (The Game of Thrones dual-wield fight was so awesome precisely because it's almost impossible to do. It really underscored the greatness of Sir Arthur Dayne.) Perhaps not coincidentally, I find magicka characters more fun than stamina ones.

As for sex and so on -- yeah, I'd love to take one of the dancer/prostitutes into my private room and have them dance naked. But alternative sources of *** are very easily available, so not having that is hardly a big deal.

And for those who question the game's "Maturity":

• There's quite a bit of gay marriage or romance in this game, and that makes some people queasy.
• There are a lot of references to people having casual sex, including at least one prostitute who proposes it to you.
• The Blade of Woe is of course rather gory.

@FrancisCrawford It's the tone that matters, not the references. The lusty argonian maid is not mature, it's a jokey tale told in euphemisms. The problem is, the rest of the game is presented as clean (currently a potentially world-ending war going on, civilian life seems unaffected enough to keep the streets clean), humorous (most references to serious content are said with a smirk), simple (even including the blade of woe, people just kind of fall over and die. There's no disgusting twitching or ceremony afterwards) and light (the 'bad' pretty much always loses with minimal losses on the part of the 'good', the end of the main singleplayer storyline is pretty much the only counter example I can think of and it's ham-fisted).

Because of this tone, anything 'mature' added is not going to be taken as 'mature'. It's going to be another joke toy in the play pen, more akin to the ***-bat from Saint's Row 3 than anything tasteful or immersive.

Shgon_Dunstan

Well... One of the eight divines is the goddess of beauty, sex, and prostitution. Oh whom a culturally accepted method of worship involves... Well, prostitution.


... Oddly enough, Dibella has for the most part just been kept to herself in the background since Daggerfall. No idea why.

central_scrutinizer

Bring back the stripper inkies of daggerfall!

Rouven

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

That's the hag in Glenumbra. If you cc her for 10 seconds she'll become friendly and give you a hidden quest.