ZOS What was the "Issue" with the stealth speed stack ?

RouDeR

Why are you taking away the most fun role-play PVE and PVP vampire builds , Shadow Dancer , and Night Silence are crapy sets by themselves , but stacking with Vampire Passive is what makes them good , The ability to move fast in stealth is the nature of the Vampires and u just destroyed that.
By the same Logic ZOS you need to make all sets that provide SPRINT Bonus speed or general movement speed to not stack with Werewolve movement speed Cuz Sprinting and running is the nature of Werewolves ... rip logic ZOS.
Video of the "issue"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNcibW2X-eg&t=1s

lookstwice

OMG!! Just logged on to the pts to try this and wow, I don't know if I could play the game that way. It was such an awful experience on the PTS like it's even clunkier as well.

I know for most people the big deal is all the other balance changes and those are ones I can deal with and adapt to. I even understand them and I can even see how the game might be improved because of them.

But this stealth change will be the one that I don't think I can overcome.

With limited time during the week. I log on and do my crafting dailies on multiple toons. Run and get my toxin satchel and maybe run to the bank. Sometimes do the undaunted daily or dark brotherhood.

This change is just such a huge quality of life issue. It would be like taking away the craft bag for me. All of my toons are vamps using those sets in town. I just hate slow.

I mean the horse is so damn slow even a fully maxed horse 60's on everything and sprinting. Heck maybe they can just buff all speeds up by 10% and maybe 20% for sprinting for character and horse. Especially with the nerfs to sustain what would be so bad about buffing the crap out of sprinting?

IcyDeadPeople

Can you explain this a bit more? Change was made to those armor sets or to the vampire passive?

zaria

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Can you explain this a bit more? Change was made to those armor sets or to the vampire passive?

Night Silence and shadow dancer let you sneak at normal running speed, I use Night Silence for the heist dailies
vampires has an bonus to sneak speed who stack with the set sneak bonus.

This stacking will be removed, hardly see the point yes its a bit stupid to sneak faster than running but it don't have much effect as the sets are pretty crappy for combat.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

There's no issue with it. It's just fun and unique and ZOS is currently nerfing anything fun and unique. Homogenize the classes and buy a warden.

Enslaved

zaria wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Can you explain this a bit more? Change was made to those armor sets or to the vampire passive?

Night Silence and shadow dancer let you sneak at normal running speed, I use Night Silence for the heist dailies
vampires has an bonus to sneak speed who stack with the set sneak bonus.

This stacking will be removed, hardly see the point yes its a bit stupid to sneak faster than running but it don't have much effect as the sets are pretty crappy for combat.

But were great for Cyrodiil infiltration and scouting. Now they became decon tier stuff.

Nerouyn

Hasn't this stacking come and gone a few times now? I didn't realise they had swung back to stacking again.

Stealth has always been problematic and that became even more apparent to me when I played through the thieve's guild stuff recently.

No particular class, eg. nightblades, or disease, eg. vampirism, should have an advantage for any particular content. And if they, you'll find that many players who don't like those classes or diseases will just ignore that content.

Julianos

RouDeR wrote: »

Why are you taking away the most fun role-play PVE and PVP vampire builds , Shadow Dancer , and Night Silence are crapy sets by themselves , but stacking with Vampire Passive is what makes them good , The ability to move fast in stealth is the nature of the Vampires and u just destroyed that.
By the same Logic ZOS you need to make all sets that provide SPRINT Bonus speed or general movement speed to not stack with Werewolve movement speed Cuz Sprinting and running is the nature of Werewolves ... rip logic ZOS.

Obviously its a bug because it says "ignores sneak speed penalty" not increase or double... People only play this game to abuse bugs and exploit.

RouDeR

Axorn wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

Why are you taking away the most fun role-play PVE and PVP vampire builds , Shadow Dancer , and Night Silence are crapy sets by themselves , but stacking with Vampire Passive is what makes them good , The ability to move fast in stealth is the nature of the Vampires and u just destroyed that.
By the same Logic ZOS you need to make all sets that provide SPRINT Bonus speed or general movement speed to not stack with Werewolve movement speed Cuz Sprinting and running is the nature of Werewolves ... rip logic ZOS.

Obviously its a bug because it says "ignores sneak speed penalty" not increase or double... People only play this game to abuse bugs and exploit.

You know they can simply change the tooltip to "Increase stealth speed by 50% " instead of killing entire playstyle.

PS.Posted a video in my first post with the Shadow Dancer / Spinner build in action , for those who don't know what is the result of combining a vampire + SD set.

ljb2k5_ESO

RouDeR wrote: »

Why are you taking away the most fun role-play PVE and PVP vampire builds , Shadow Dancer , and Night Silence are crapy sets by themselves , but stacking with Vampire Passive is what makes them good , The ability to move fast in stealth is the nature of the Vampires and u just destroyed that.
By the same Logic ZOS you need to make all sets that provide SPRINT Bonus speed or general movement speed to not stack with Werewolve movement speed Cuz Sprinting and running is the nature of Werewolves ... rip logic ZOS.
Video of the "issue"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNcibW2X-eg&t=1s

It may have been a bug, but instead of realizing that it was fun, albeit unintentionally, and capitalizing on that, they took a page out of the BLizzard play book; Fun detected, fun removed.

zaria

Nerouyn wrote: »

Hasn't this stacking come and gone a few times now? I didn't realise they had swung back to stacking again.

Stealth has always been problematic and that became even more apparent to me when I played through the thieve's guild stuff recently.

No particular class, eg. nightblades, or disease, eg. vampirism, should have an advantage for any particular content. And if they, you'll find that many players who don't like those classes or diseases will just ignore that content.

Classes has benefits DK is the best tank because of class skills. pet sorc good for soloing stuff even with low skills because he bring his own tank. Templar (Warden) is the best healer because of class skills.
NB has stealth skills.

And you can do the heist with any character, here medium armor and night silence is perfect. has used an cp150 set for it on magsorc and magplar, just unlock the sneak bonus.

Kay1

ZO$ is too busy counting money

lookstwice

RouDeR wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

Why are you taking away the most fun role-play PVE and PVP vampire builds , Shadow Dancer , and Night Silence are crapy sets by themselves , but stacking with Vampire Passive is what makes them good , The ability to move fast in stealth is the nature of the Vampires and u just destroyed that.
By the same Logic ZOS you need to make all sets that provide SPRINT Bonus speed or general movement speed to not stack with Werewolve movement speed Cuz Sprinting and running is the nature of Werewolves ... rip logic ZOS.

Obviously its a bug because it says "ignores sneak speed penalty" not increase or double... People only play this game to abuse bugs and exploit.

You know they can simply change the tooltip to "Increase stealth speed by 50% " instead of killing entire playstyle.

PS.Posted a video in my first post with the Shadow Dancer / Spinner build in action , for those who don't know what is the result of combining a vampire + SD set.

I agree. Just something where you give up something to go fast. Even if you disable it Cyrodiil. It really is just a huge quality of life issue when doing your daily chores.

IcyDeadPeople

Enslaved wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Can you explain this a bit more? Change was made to those armor sets or to the vampire passive?

Night Silence and shadow dancer let you sneak at normal running speed, I use Night Silence for the heist dailies
vampires has an bonus to sneak speed who stack with the set sneak bonus.

This stacking will be removed, hardly see the point yes its a bit stupid to sneak faster than running but it don't have much effect as the sets are pretty crappy for combat.

But were great for Cyrodiil infiltration and scouting. Now they became decon tier stuff.

What I would like to confirm is this does not affect concealed weapon + dark stalker + major expedition, correct?

alexkdd99

Nerouyn wrote: »

Hasn't this stacking come and gone a few times now? I didn't realise they had swung back to stacking again.

Stealth has always been problematic and that became even more apparent to me when I played through the thieve's guild stuff recently.

No particular class, eg. nightblades, or disease, eg. vampirism, should have an advantage for any particular content. And if they, you'll find that many players who don't like those classes or diseases will just ignore that content.

Yes they should and they do. All the classes shouldn't be the same across the board. Each one should have it's own strength and weakness.

If different classes didn't excel at different types of content then what is the point in even having different classes.

Mmo's have been this way since the beginning and still are. So I really have no idea where you came up with that.

Koolio

These nerfs is why I'm unsubscribing. Then you want to be salty and immediately go after someone's else's build because yours got nerfed. Don't touch my fiords orc stam sorc werewolf. Only build I run now and if they nerf that too I'm deleting this game.

FrancisCrawford

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Can you explain this a bit more? Change was made to those armor sets or to the vampire passive?

Night Silence and shadow dancer let you sneak at normal running speed, I use Night Silence for the heist dailies
vampires has an bonus to sneak speed who stack with the set sneak bonus.

This stacking will be removed, hardly see the point yes its a bit stupid to sneak faster than running but it don't have much effect as the sets are pretty crappy for combat.

But were great for Cyrodiil infiltration and scouting. Now they became decon tier stuff.

What I would like to confirm is this does not affect concealed weapon + dark stalker + major expedition, correct?

If it doesn't, I'm happy. Concealed Weapon + Night's Silence + Retreating Maneuvers on a non-vamp is already pretty fast.

I do however dislike the bug where casting Retreating Maneuvers in a town is often construed as an attempted attack on an innocent. And of course I also dislike the bug where the slowdown-cancellation sometimes doesn't work, even when you're supposedly hidden. (Sometimes a spate of invisibility with Cloak fixes that, but sometimes it doesn't.)

WalksonGraves

So I have been using the combo and it's clearly broken. The sneak speed reduction isn't supposed to stack to the point where you run so fast you dc. It's not like it makes stealing much easier since you get no stealth radius reduction and you move so fast you slide. Trying to inch towards a target and you sprint.

You can just use the minor speed buff set + the usual stuff post nerf.

Koolio

WalksonGraves wrote: »

So I have been using the combo and it's clearly broken. The sneak speed reduction isn't supposed to stack to the point where you run so fast you dc. It's not like it makes stealing much easier since you get no stealth radius reduction and you move so fast you slide. Trying to inch towards a target and you sprint.

You can just use the minor speed buff set + the usual stuff post nerf.

But it's the creative thinking/using of sets to make unique play styles that's makes people enjoy the game. But they are directly nerfing it. This goes with almost every direct nerf they did.

It's like Zos went into PVP one day saw someone not using the meta and went out of their way to nerf it.
Oh you like ganking "nerf"
Oh you like tanking "nerf"
Oh you like healing "nerf"
Oh you like to encase spam "nerf"

At this rate they need to tell us what they allow as acceptable and lock everyone out of any other choices.

Like here's your gear for nightblade class and you can't change it. Trying to use something else in this areas is not allowed.

lookstwice

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Can you explain this a bit more? Change was made to those armor sets or to the vampire passive?

Night Silence and shadow dancer let you sneak at normal running speed, I use Night Silence for the heist dailies
vampires has an bonus to sneak speed who stack with the set sneak bonus.

This stacking will be removed, hardly see the point yes its a bit stupid to sneak faster than running but it don't have much effect as the sets are pretty crappy for combat.

But were great for Cyrodiil infiltration and scouting. Now they became decon tier stuff.

What I would like to confirm is this does not affect concealed weapon + dark stalker + major expedition, correct?

Even with all those three is sure felt dog slow to point where I don't even think I would use it anymore. Maybe I'll play with it some more this weekend. But yes using rapids with those two, I did speed up. But not really all that much. But my perspective might be jaded at this point.

I actually some routes timed from before so I'll try with the above. I've actually used a stop watch to test things.

Theoldsalem

As long as this does not mess with concealed weapon and dark stalker im happy.

Duiwel

OP your reaction and resentment towards this is how I felt when they nerfed animation cancelling a year ago and slowed it down to what we now have.

Goshua

Shadow dancer, vampire and passives for reduced cost in sneak was crazy fast and sustainable.
I'm not surprised its got fixed. I'm sad mind because unmounted speed was really handy for many reasons.

QuebraRegra

Enslaved wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Can you explain this a bit more? Change was made to those armor sets or to the vampire passive?

Night Silence and shadow dancer let you sneak at normal running speed, I use Night Silence for the heist dailies
vampires has an bonus to sneak speed who stack with the set sneak bonus.

This stacking will be removed, hardly see the point yes its a bit stupid to sneak faster than running but it don't have much effect as the sets are pretty crappy for combat.

But were great for Cyrodiil infiltration and scouting. Now they became decon tier stuff.

There goes a "scout" build that killed NO ONE ever... must nerf tho right?

There needs to be a turnover in devs with this kind of decision making.

ShedsHisTail

RouDeR wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

Why are you taking away the most fun role-play PVE and PVP vampire builds , Shadow Dancer , and Night Silence are crapy sets by themselves , but stacking with Vampire Passive is what makes them good , The ability to move fast in stealth is the nature of the Vampires and u just destroyed that.
By the same Logic ZOS you need to make all sets that provide SPRINT Bonus speed or general movement speed to not stack with Werewolve movement speed Cuz Sprinting and running is the nature of Werewolves ... rip logic ZOS.

Obviously its a bug because it says "ignores sneak speed penalty" not increase or double... People only play this game to abuse bugs and exploit.

You know they can simply change the tooltip to "Increase stealth speed by 50% " instead of killing entire playstyle.

PS.Posted a video in my first post with the Shadow Dancer / Spinner build in action , for those who don't know what is the result of combining a vampire + SD set.

The point being made is that the tooltip explains the -intent- of the speed change. It's not intended to increase your speed beyond normal movement speed. It's only intended to keep you from being slowed while sneaking.

Lecter

Do concealed weapon/ dark path and the vamp passive stack? I’m told the NC set and vamp passive won’t but no further info
I’d become a vamp anyway but I’m a magblade healer and the sustaining is real bad

Gilvoth

Koolio wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

So I have been using the combo and it's clearly broken. The sneak speed reduction isn't supposed to stack to the point where you run so fast you dc. It's not like it makes stealing much easier since you get no stealth radius reduction and you move so fast you slide. Trying to inch towards a target and you sprint.

You can just use the minor speed buff set + the usual stuff post nerf.

But it's the creative thinking/using of sets to make unique play styles that's makes people enjoy the game. But they are directly nerfing it. This goes with almost every direct nerf they did.

It's like Zos went into PVP one day saw someone not using the meta and went out of their way to nerf it.
Oh you like ganking "nerf"
Oh you like tanking "nerf"
Oh you like healing "nerf"
Oh you like to encase spam "nerf"

At this rate they need to tell us what they allow as acceptable and lock everyone out of any other choices.

Like here's your gear for nightblade class and you can't change it. Trying to use something else in this areas is not allowed.

this^
well said.


and please, Please, increase sneak speeds.
it's like crawling in mud, we move too slow, please increase both running and sneaking speeds.

Kanar

If ZOS is gonna continue to refuse to nerf cloak, then at least they should remove the sneak speed buff of vampire.

In b4 "necro wah wah"

SpacemanSpiff1

Kanar wrote: »

If ZOS is gonna continue to refuse to nerf cloak, then at least they should remove the sneak speed buff of vampire.

In b4 "necro wah wah"

Vampirism isn't exclusive to nightblades.

starkerealm

Lecter wrote: »

Do concealed weapon/ dark path and the vamp passive stack? I’m told the NC set and vamp passive won’t but no further info
I’d become a vamp anyway but I’m a magblade healer and the sustaining is real bad

Yeah. You could have started this in a new thread, but, as of November 2018, Concealed Weapon does stack with Nightstalker. I'm not sure about dark path, but my recollection is that it takes you out of stealth when cast, which turns off concealed weapon, until you get out of the area, anyway.

ganzaeso

Wow this is over 1 year past being posted.

Totally necromancy