Maintenance for the week of March 3:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 3
• NA megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 11:00AM EST (16:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 16:00 UTC (11:00AM EST)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 6, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EST (21:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – March 3
• NA megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 11:00AM EST (16:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – March 5, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 16:00 UTC (11:00AM EST)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 6, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EST (21:00 UTC)
Templar Healer Changes...
exeeter702
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
✭✭
First i should say that of course since its the pts, things are subject to change and nothing is set in stone...
However i would just like to give a big thanks to ZOS for finally putting the nail in the coffin that is the monopoly that templars have had over the healing role. Now i have subscribed to and championed the logic for a VERY long time that tempars were never intended by core design to the primary healer in this game. I have often gotten into it numerous times here in the forums in various threads with a great many individuals who attack that logic with two primary arguments.
-Templars are the only real healers. They have a dedicated healing skill line
This has always been untrue to a certain extent. While in name, it would suggest that yes the skill line's primary focus is that of restoring, but the truth to it is more of the flavor text variety as the skill line also contains critical tools for templar tanks as well as a valuable sustain tool for any role.
-Templars are the only real healer because they and they alone have access to the most critical of utilities, stamina sustain
Interesting to note here is that with this argument, a key contributing factor is a skill that exists not in the "healing" skill line which dictates what makes a templar the primary healer. But while that itself isnt really a strong argument, i always felt that this next point is - Outside of true end game content ie. hm vet trials, resource sustain utility is largely redundant and in those trials you would never need more than a single templar on shard duty.
One only needs to take a quick look at the other 3 (soon to be 4) classes to realize that ZOS has always envisioned each and every class to take up the reigns of a primary healer. Understand that whether or not certain class healing options are over or under tuned is not the discussion here, but rather the INTENT of said skills and how they are implemented on a conceptual and fundamental level. As an example, take a look at the dragon knights cauterize skill, a skill widely considered by many to be pretty low tier (imo it can use a bit of love but is not that bad). Regardless of how effective it is or isnt is irrelevant. The reality is that ZOS provided the DK an entirely selfless healing skill. So with that frame work in mind, take a look at all the powerful healing abilities that each class aside from the templar has..
Sorcerers
Twilight matriarch - A powerful burst heal, potentially strongest in game, the price for that power comes with 2 bars and pet micro.
Absorption field - A aoe healing ultimate
Nightblade
Funnel Health - A strong heal over time with a damage component (subjected to a target limit nerf similar to BoL, signifying a like minded philosophy of healing potency for smart cast heals)
Restoring path - Simple ground based group heal over time with a damage component
Soul siphon - An entirely selfless aoe group healing ultimate
Veil of Blades - A ground based group mitigation buff
Dragon Knight
Cauterize - Casted selfless heal over time
Igneous Shield - While not a direct heal, and provides a weaker shield when casted by a healer instead of a tank, this skill is actually the best application of major mending in the game (and will be even more so come Morrowind)
Molten Shell - A (recently changed from being a very risky and clunky synergy) group wide damage shield ultimate
From a design standpoint, templars and wardens may not need to rely as heavily on the restoration staff skills under certain scenarios as much as the other 3 may, however with all things combined the rough healing output from all classes is roughly the same. Which is where alot of the arguments come to play, heals per second is not the factor, but the added utility is........
Well, viewing the patch notes today, i could not be more satisfied, i should note that none of the changes surprised me in the least, i knew this was coming and i had called it many many months ago.
There will still be growing pains for the first few months come morrowind, as many players will likely be too stubborn to even consider a non templar as they do now. New threads will still pop up by new players asking about "healing on X class" or "i was kicked from a vet dungeon finder group for healing as Y class" but i hope in time that this *** is laid to rest and we can finally have non templar healers to partake in most content without added scrutiny by those less informed or educated.
Templars were never the intended primary healers in this game. You would be foolish to believe that each of the 4 classes is at their core are built to perform well exclusively in a particular role. Such a limitation for an MMO with 4(5) classes which supports the trinity system is truly short sighted and demonstrates a complete lack of understand on this games class design spectrum and nuance that comes with it.
DK =/= Tank
Templar =/= Healer
Sorc & NB =/= DPS
I feel vindicated to an extent by todays PTS notes and would like to thank ZOS.
However i would just like to give a big thanks to ZOS for finally putting the nail in the coffin that is the monopoly that templars have had over the healing role. Now i have subscribed to and championed the logic for a VERY long time that tempars were never intended by core design to the primary healer in this game. I have often gotten into it numerous times here in the forums in various threads with a great many individuals who attack that logic with two primary arguments.
-Templars are the only real healers. They have a dedicated healing skill line
This has always been untrue to a certain extent. While in name, it would suggest that yes the skill line's primary focus is that of restoring, but the truth to it is more of the flavor text variety as the skill line also contains critical tools for templar tanks as well as a valuable sustain tool for any role.
-Templars are the only real healer because they and they alone have access to the most critical of utilities, stamina sustain
Interesting to note here is that with this argument, a key contributing factor is a skill that exists not in the "healing" skill line which dictates what makes a templar the primary healer. But while that itself isnt really a strong argument, i always felt that this next point is - Outside of true end game content ie. hm vet trials, resource sustain utility is largely redundant and in those trials you would never need more than a single templar on shard duty.
One only needs to take a quick look at the other 3 (soon to be 4) classes to realize that ZOS has always envisioned each and every class to take up the reigns of a primary healer. Understand that whether or not certain class healing options are over or under tuned is not the discussion here, but rather the INTENT of said skills and how they are implemented on a conceptual and fundamental level. As an example, take a look at the dragon knights cauterize skill, a skill widely considered by many to be pretty low tier (imo it can use a bit of love but is not that bad). Regardless of how effective it is or isnt is irrelevant. The reality is that ZOS provided the DK an entirely selfless healing skill. So with that frame work in mind, take a look at all the powerful healing abilities that each class aside from the templar has..
Sorcerers
Twilight matriarch - A powerful burst heal, potentially strongest in game, the price for that power comes with 2 bars and pet micro.
Absorption field - A aoe healing ultimate
Nightblade
Funnel Health - A strong heal over time with a damage component (subjected to a target limit nerf similar to BoL, signifying a like minded philosophy of healing potency for smart cast heals)
Restoring path - Simple ground based group heal over time with a damage component
Soul siphon - An entirely selfless aoe group healing ultimate
Veil of Blades - A ground based group mitigation buff
Dragon Knight
Cauterize - Casted selfless heal over time
Igneous Shield - While not a direct heal, and provides a weaker shield when casted by a healer instead of a tank, this skill is actually the best application of major mending in the game (and will be even more so come Morrowind)
Molten Shell - A (recently changed from being a very risky and clunky synergy) group wide damage shield ultimate
From a design standpoint, templars and wardens may not need to rely as heavily on the restoration staff skills under certain scenarios as much as the other 3 may, however with all things combined the rough healing output from all classes is roughly the same. Which is where alot of the arguments come to play, heals per second is not the factor, but the added utility is........
Well, viewing the patch notes today, i could not be more satisfied, i should note that none of the changes surprised me in the least, i knew this was coming and i had called it many many months ago.
There will still be growing pains for the first few months come morrowind, as many players will likely be too stubborn to even consider a non templar as they do now. New threads will still pop up by new players asking about "healing on X class" or "i was kicked from a vet dungeon finder group for healing as Y class" but i hope in time that this *** is laid to rest and we can finally have non templar healers to partake in most content without added scrutiny by those less informed or educated.
Templars were never the intended primary healers in this game. You would be foolish to believe that each of the 4 classes is at their core are built to perform well exclusively in a particular role. Such a limitation for an MMO with 4(5) classes which supports the trinity system is truly short sighted and demonstrates a complete lack of understand on this games class design spectrum and nuance that comes with it.
DK =/= Tank
Templar =/= Healer
Sorc & NB =/= DPS
I feel vindicated to an extent by todays PTS notes and would like to thank ZOS.
2
-
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭Templars were intended to be primary healers.
And healing in this game is not just about resetting one's ally to full again. It's been more than that. If you truly are a healer, you know your main role is to buff your allies (which includes resource management) and debuff your enemies. And then heal. Yes you can be a healer as a DK/sorc/nb, but nerfing templar to how they want it to be nerfed makes no sense. A healer is suppose to support, not just heal. Just like a tank is not only to mitigate and absorb dmg, it also needs to support it's group. If templars weren't suppose to be primary healers they why not give sorcs and nbs the same resource management aid templars HAD? Why does a DK and an NB doesn't have a burst heal templars have? and why don't templars have burst damage like sorcs have?
Thinking that this game doesn't have classes more suitable for tanking or healing or causing damage is foolish, because by design they are. It is how you play your game that defines your role. But that doesn't mean you should heal like a templar or tank like a DK or have burst damage like Sorcs and NBs have. It means, if you choose a class and you want to be in this role you have to understand your strengths and weaknesses, and make it work. It doesn't mean you should be equally as good as any class in any given role. Because if that is the case then we should just all be tanks and healers and dpsers, right? I know an Orc-sorc healer and he does pretty well in vtrials. Not the most optimal, but he does good.Edited by me_ming on April 18, 2017 2:15AM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]12 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭What i am concerning with is warden's major mending uptime.
If they make sure that Warden's Major mending uptime is as low as DK's, I will have no problem with it. It's good for the game.
But, if it plays out that Warden's major mending uptime is high, it's clear that warden healer will be de facto healer, so we just replace a de facto healer with another de facto healer. Nothing will change.
I will wait and see how it plays out.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
nemisan✭✭✭Wow, I thought I read enough crazy stuff in the PTS Patch Notes...lol, temps never intended to be healers...really ? OP, I guess your main is a sorc, yes? ...with pets?4 -
bareheiny✭✭✭✭✭People can say what they want about Templars being the only real healers....and I'll just carry on carrying on with my DK healer thanks....no Templar nerf required.2 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Templars were intended to be primary healers.
And healing in this game is not just about resetting one's ally to full again. It's been more than that. If you truly are a healer, you know your main role is to buff your allies (which includes resource management) and debuff your enemies. And then heal. Yes you can be a healer as a DK/sorc/nb, but nerfing templar to how they want it to be nerfed makes no sense. A healer is suppose to support, not just heal. Just like a tank is not only to mitigate and absorb dmg, it also needs to support it's group. If templars weren't suppose to be primary healers they why not give sorcs and nbs the same resource management aid templars HAD? Why does a DK and an NB doesn't have a burst heal templars have? and why don't templars have burst damage like sorcs have?
Thinking that this game doesn't have classes more suitable for tanking or healing or causing damage is foolish, because by design they are. It is how you play your game that defines your role. But that doesn't mean you should heal like a templar or tank like a DK or have burst damage like Sorcs and NBs have. It means, if you choose a class and you want to be in this role you have to understand your strengths and weaknesses, and make it work. It doesn't mean you should be equally as good as any class in any given role. Because if that is the case then we should just all be tanks and healers and dpsers, right? I know an Orc-sorc healer and he does pretty well in vtrials. Not the most optimal, but he does good.
No one with an inkling of knowledge to the healer role would suggest anything along the lines of healers are only supposed to heal so im not entirely sure why you feel the need to bring that up. Outside of stamina utility, all classes have access to the various buffs and debuffs of which is expected of a healer. Templars have never had an edge over the other healers outside of that.
If templars weren't suppose to be primary healers they why not give sorcs and nbs the same resource management aid templars HAD?
Simply put, a trial group would always have a templar, at least one, that could provide this utility. It wouldnt have to be a healer. At least by ZOSs design. You are admitting that you believe they were intended to be the primary healer based exclusively on stamina utility? you say resource management aid, yet everyone has access to orbs for example.
Why does a DK and an NB doesn't have a burst heal templars and sorcs have? and why don't templars have burst damage like sorcs have?
Well because different classes operate and function differently, not sure what else to say about that. You are being very reductive here.....
Your last paragraph seems to suggest that im taking the special snowflake mentality. IE, trying to make something work within the means of my desires despite the game not supporting that specific approach. The point stands that healing on a non templar is by no means the same as trying to make a holy resto magic, bow wielding, bosmer tree wizard perform appropriately in an end game group environment. Every class's approach to each role comes with concessions, strengths and weaknesses. I apologize by im not entirely sure you read my OP based on your sticking points. Or perhaps i should have been more thorough.Edited by exeeter702 on April 18, 2017 2:44AM0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow, I thought I read enough crazy stuff in the PTS Patch Notes...lol, temps never intended to be healers...really ? OP, I guess your main is a sorc, yes? ...with pets?
No. I primarily play templar and NB since beta. Dont be confused... templars never intended to be healers is not the same as templars never intended is the exclusive healer of ESO.Edited by exeeter702 on April 18, 2017 2:45AM0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »What i am concerning with is warden's major mending uptime.
If they make sure that Warden's Major mending uptime is as low as DK's, I will have no problem with it. It's good for the game.
But, if it plays out that Warden's major mending uptime is high, it's clear that warden healer will be de facto healer, so we just replace a de facto healer with another de facto healer. Nothing will change.
I will wait and see how it plays out.
DKs will not have low MM uptime though. A dk healer is refreshing igneous every 6 seconds anyways, and outside of major unavoidable trial wide damage, the sheild is not going to fall off on a DK healer. Templars having to resort to resto staff heavies does kind of suck, but i suppose the constant minor mending will cushion that if only a little.Edited by exeeter702 on April 18, 2017 2:51AM0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nevermind I don't need a ban.Edited by TequilaFire on April 18, 2017 2:55AM3 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Simply put, a trial group would always have a templar, at least one, that could provide this utility. It wouldnt have to be a healer. At least by ZOSs design. You are admitting that you believe they were intended to be the primary healer based exclusively on stamina utility? you say resource management aid, yet everyone has access to orbs for example.
Exactly the reason why they are most viable for healing. Because they can restore magicka AND stamina. Templars can have orbs and shards and repentance. No other class do that. In a trial guild it would be silly to have your DPS do orbs, wouldn't you agree? But hey if that's what your trial guild is doing, go ahead. lolexeeter702 wrote: »
Well because different classes operate and function differently, not sure what else to say about that. You are being very reductive here.....
Exactly so why make the templar act like every other class? Why nerf BoL, Repentance and Shards, when these skills were what defined a templar?
Edited by me_ming on April 18, 2017 2:57AM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]2 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Simply put, a trial group would always have a templar, at least one, that could provide this utility. It wouldnt have to be a healer. At least by ZOSs design. You are admitting that you believe they were intended to be the primary healer based exclusively on stamina utility? you say resource management aid, yet everyone has access to orbs for example.
Exactly the reason why they are most viable for healing. Because they can restore magicka AND stamina. Templars can have orbs and shards and repentance. No other class do that. In a trial guild it would be silly to have your DPS do orbs, wouldn't you agree? But hey if that's what your trial guild is doing, go ahead. lolexeeter702 wrote: »
Well because different classes operate and function differently, not sure what else to say about that. You are being very reductive here.....
Exactly so why make the templar act like every other class? Why nerf BoL, Repentance and Shards, when these skills were what defined a templar?
Templars are not exempt from the resource sustain nerf hammer that is being applied across the board. They are hit the hardest because they had exclusive access to a certain tool that revolves around resource sustain which was collateral if anything.
Yes dps doing orbs is ridiculous and i never suggested such a thing, im saying that at worst, you could have a dps magplar provide the occasional shard if need be, if said trial group runs 2 non templar healers, i know that sounds like a stretch but that is just a basic observation as to the possible thought process ZOS may have had when in the design stages of this game. They did not go "hey, lets give them stamina restore utility because we want them to be the main healers in our game". The current patch notes only confirm this to be true now. BoL has nothing do with this, my only point is in regards to ZOS providing a critical tool to all healers instead of just one.
If everyone was given a different way to restore stamina to group members and templars where left untouched would you still be upset? Do you truly believe that only 1 of 5 classes in this game should have any business healing content that matters?
0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »What i am concerning with is warden's major mending uptime.
If they make sure that Warden's Major mending uptime is as low as DK's, I will have no problem with it. It's good for the game.
But, if it plays out that Warden's major mending uptime is high, it's clear that warden healer will be de facto healer, so we just replace a de facto healer with another de facto healer. Nothing will change.
I will wait and see how it plays out.
DKs will not have low MM uptime though. A dk healer is refreshing igneous every 6 seconds anyways, and outside of major unavoidable trial wide damage, the sheild is not going to fall off on a DK healer. Templars having to resort to resto staff heavies does kind of suck, but i suppose the constant minor mending will cushion that if only a little.
They nerf it, the buff only takes place if the shield is up. So, if you are taking hit, major mending's uptime will not be too high.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
RT_Frank✭✭✭Wow, I thought I read enough crazy stuff in the PTS Patch Notes...lol, temps never intended to be healers...really ? OP, I guess your main is a sorc, yes? ...with pets?
Honestly, the way it's been in the forums since the patch notes just assume that anyone who thinks that these changes are "fair" main sorcs hardcore. Don't get me wrong, I play on my sorc a lot, but unlike most I can be objective and these changes are, objectively, dumb. Oh and the argument about having every class effectively tank/heal is short-sighted for the reasons @me_ming is correctly saying.0 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »If everyone was given a different way to restore stamina to group members and templars where left untouched would you still be upset? Do you truly believe that only 1 of 5 classes in this game should have any business healing content that matters?
No. I wouldn't be upset with that. But then again, when that happens do you think this game is still diverse? And that is my point, there was a reason these skills are in a Templar kit and not in any other class. that's what makes this game diverse, and that's what make the Templar class the best class for healing. Because you have a class that has resource management and a burst heal, but DPS and tank wise you may not do as well. If they nerf these defining skills then what is the difference between a templar from a sorc or a nightblade or a DK or a warden? With this nerf I could just be a sorc wearing SPC + worm or whatnot and with a resto staff. I wouldn't be much of a difference from a templar.
SO yeah, to answer your question, no I wouldn't be upset, but I am asking you, do you think what you are suggesting would be fun, just because you want to heal on your sorc? You want to be just like a templar healer? When you are not!Edited by me_ming on April 18, 2017 5:35AM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]0 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »If everyone was given a different way to restore stamina to group members and templars where left untouched would you still be upset? Do you truly believe that only 1 of 5 classes in this game should have any business healing content that matters?
No. I wouldn't be upset with that. But then again, when that happens do you think this game is still diverse? And that is my point, there was a reason these skills are in a Templar kit and not in any other class. that's what makes this game diverse, and that's what make the Templar class the best class for healing. Because you have a class that has resource management and a burst heal, but DPS and tank wise you may not do as well. If they nerf these defining skills then what is the difference between a templar from a sorc or a nightblade or a DK or a warden? With this nerf I could just be a sorc wearing SPC + worm or whatnot and with a resto staff. I wouldn't be much of a difference from a templar.
SO yeah, to answer your question, no I wouldn't be upset, but I am asking you, do you think what you are suggesting would be fun, just because you want to heal on your sorc? You want to be just like a templar healer? When you are not!
I never said that only templars can heal. But they are the only ones viable to heal, because they are designed to be healers not as a tank or DPS."We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]0 -
teladoy✭✭✭✭✭As Templar healer I have to say i don't like these changes if i want to play with my templar, but from the other side, this will help me to don't be discriminated if i would like to heal with my sorcerer.
What i want to say is that Templars are like the most wanted as healer and when someone see a Sorcerer with a Bird they think this is a completly fail...
Now people will be more open mind.Edited by teladoy on April 18, 2017 5:46AM0 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭As Templar healer I have to say i don't like these changes if i want to play with my templar, but from the other side will, this would help me if i want to heal with my sorcerer to don't being discriminate.
What i want to say is that Templars are like the most wanted as healer and when someone see a Sorcerer with a Bird they think this is a completly fail...
Now people will be more open mind.
This is exactly why the nerfs shouldn't go live. What they did was disable templars. Why? So other classes can be viable healers too? Why make something worse when there is nothing wrong with it. Why hate on templars. You (and I am talking generally, not to the one who posted the comment) chose to be a sorc healer. YOU wanted it. Why do you want to be like a templar healer? Maybe you should just have been a templar healer then. Not a sorc.Edited by me_ming on April 18, 2017 5:43AM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »If everyone was given a different way to restore stamina to group members and templars where left untouched would you still be upset? Do you truly believe that only 1 of 5 classes in this game should have any business healing content that matters?
No. I wouldn't be upset with that. But then again, when that happens do you think this game is still diverse? And that is my point, there was a reason these skills are in a Templar kit and not in any other class. that's what makes this game diverse, and that's what make the Templar class the best class for healing. Because you have a class that has resource management and a burst heal, but DPS and tank wise you may not do as well. If they nerf these defining skills then what is the difference between a templar from a sorc or a nightblade or a DK or a warden? With this nerf I could just be a sorc wearing SPC + worm or whatnot and with a resto staff. I wouldn't be much of a difference from a templar.
SO yeah, to answer your question, no I wouldn't be upset, but I am asking you, do you think what you are suggesting would be fun, just because you want to heal on your sorc? You want to be just like a templar healer? When you are not!
Then as an extension, do you truly believe that with how the game is designed at its foundation, templars are the only class that has a right to heal end game content?
For what its worth ZOS doesnt think so and at the VERY least havent since TG. Todays patch notes are culmination of that vision.
Next time a templar dps thread pops up please be sure to jump in there and politely explain to them upset / frustrated players that they have no business or right having comparable dps to sorc or nbs.Edited by exeeter702 on April 18, 2017 5:51AM1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »What i am concerning with is warden's major mending uptime.
If they make sure that Warden's Major mending uptime is as low as DK's, I will have no problem with it. It's good for the game.
But, if it plays out that Warden's major mending uptime is high, it's clear that warden healer will be de facto healer, so we just replace a de facto healer with another de facto healer. Nothing will change.
I will wait and see how it plays out.
DKs will not have low MM uptime though. A dk healer is refreshing igneous every 6 seconds anyways, and outside of major unavoidable trial wide damage, the sheild is not going to fall off on a DK healer. Templars having to resort to resto staff heavies does kind of suck, but i suppose the constant minor mending will cushion that if only a little.
They nerf it, the buff only takes place if the shield is up. So, if you are taking hit, major mending's uptime will not be too high.
im aware of the changes. In pve, the igneous nerf will not effect DK healers as they wont be likely to lose the shield and the fact that they are refreshing it every 6 seconds anyways.0 -
method__01✭✭✭✭✭templar healer is not the only healer in trials...with my magDk and some weird set compo (soulshine heavy armor+mighty chudan+some light pieces Lolllll) went helra without knowing the mechs
did it fine and at the end ppl didnt believe im a Dk
ps:got a templar healer as well so im not leaning towards one side or the otherPC EU/NA /// PS4 EU/NA
Vasanha
This one hears nothing. Sees nothing. This one only sweeps.
desperately need a survey assistant0 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »If everyone was given a different way to restore stamina to group members and templars where left untouched would you still be upset? Do you truly believe that only 1 of 5 classes in this game should have any business healing content that matters?
No. I wouldn't be upset with that. But then again, when that happens do you think this game is still diverse? And that is my point, there was a reason these skills are in a Templar kit and not in any other class. that's what makes this game diverse, and that's what make the Templar class the best class for healing. Because you have a class that has resource management and a burst heal, but DPS and tank wise you may not do as well. If they nerf these defining skills then what is the difference between a templar from a sorc or a nightblade or a DK or a warden? With this nerf I could just be a sorc wearing SPC + worm or whatnot and with a resto staff. I wouldn't be much of a difference from a templar.
SO yeah, to answer your question, no I wouldn't be upset, but I am asking you, do you think what you are suggesting would be fun, just because you want to heal on your sorc? You want to be just like a templar healer? When you are not!
Then as an extension, do you truly believe that with how the game is designed at its foundation, templars are the only class that has a right to heal end game content?
For what its worth ZOS doesnt think so and at the VERY least havent since TG. Todays patch notes are culmination of that vision.
Next time a templar dps thread pops up please be sure to jump in there and politely explain to them upset / frustrated players that they have no business or right having comparable dps to sorc or nbs.
Yes. I don't consider vet pledges end game content. But yes, templars are the ones that can effectively heal end game content. All other classes fall off. Just like DKs are the only ones viable to tank end game content. Which leads me to think that you have never been in any vtrial content, have you? Maybe do it on your sorc, and tell me how bad you did. Because I am pretty sure by then you'd wish you were a templar.
ZoS have always designed Templars to be the healer. The only reason why they are nerfing templars to the ground is so the warden would more interesting so they can be sure people will buy Morrowind. This nerf has nothing to do with them wanting every class to be a healer/dps/tank, but for them to gain revenue. Don't fool yourselves into thinking you will be as viable as a healer in end game content.
I have made mention in YOUR thread that Sorcs and NBs have the burst dmg. Templars know that already. Believe me.Edited by me_ming on April 18, 2017 6:04AM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]3 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
No. I wouldn't be upset with that. But then again, when that happens do you think this game is still diverse? And that is my point, there was a reason these skills are in a Templar kit and not in any other class. that's what makes this game diverse, and that's what make the Templar class the best class for healing... SO yeah, to answer your question, no I wouldn't be upset, but I am asking you, do you think what you are suggesting would be fun, just because you want to heal on your sorc?
Please answer my question. You never answered this. Do you think every class should have the same skill kit, just so you as a sorc healer could be viable for healing too?
Is that what diversity is to you? All classes should have the same skill set, so that they can all be viable heals, dps and tank?
Edited by me_ming on April 18, 2017 6:10AM"We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭I never said that only templars can heal. But they are the only ones viable to heal, because they are designed to be healers not as a tank or DPS.
Yup, by introducing 2 skills trees damage dealing abilities, ZOS didn't design Templar as DPS. Said it to yourself next time some magplar/stamplar kills you in cyrodiil.
Don't get me start on tanking. Templar is the #1 tank in PvP right now. Yup, not designed for tanking.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
me_ming✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »I never said that only templars can heal. But they are the only ones viable to heal, because they are designed to be healers not as a tank or DPS.
Yup, by introducing 2 skills trees damage dealing abilities, ZOS didn't design Templar as DPS. Said it to yourself next time some magplar/stamplar kills you in cyrodiil.
Don't get me start on tanking. Templar is the #1 tank in PvP right now. Yup, not designed for tanking.
OMG! Templars have DoT dmg. Even Jesus Beam is a DoT. nothing in the templar skill can one shot you. There are no burst dmg in templars. Compare that to an incap strike + light attack + execute on a NB or a curse to crystal frags to mage's wrath from a sorc. All those will burst you in an instant unless you're wearing full heavy armor.
Anyhow I am done talking to you kid. It is very clear to me you are a noob. And I am not letting you waste anymore of my time. Good luck in cyro AD scrub."We're heroes, my boon companion, and heroes always win! Let that be a lesson to you."
-Caldwell, "The Final Assault"
"There is always a choice. But you don't get to choose what is true, you only get to choose what you will do about it..."
-Abnur Tharn, "God of Schemes"]0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »What i am concerning with is warden's major mending uptime.
If they make sure that Warden's Major mending uptime is as low as DK's, I will have no problem with it. It's good for the game.
But, if it plays out that Warden's major mending uptime is high, it's clear that warden healer will be de facto healer, so we just replace a de facto healer with another de facto healer. Nothing will change.
I will wait and see how it plays out.
DKs will not have low MM uptime though. A dk healer is refreshing igneous every 6 seconds anyways, and outside of major unavoidable trial wide damage, the sheild is not going to fall off on a DK healer. Templars having to resort to resto staff heavies does kind of suck, but i suppose the constant minor mending will cushion that if only a little.
They nerf it, the buff only takes place if the shield is up. So, if you are taking hit, major mending's uptime will not be too high.
im aware of the changes. In pve, the igneous nerf will not effect DK healers as they wont be likely to lose the shield and the fact that they are refreshing it every 6 seconds anyways.
Hmmmm if it's the case DK might be very strong in healing next patch.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »I never said that only templars can heal. But they are the only ones viable to heal, because they are designed to be healers not as a tank or DPS.
Yup, by introducing 2 skills trees damage dealing abilities, ZOS didn't design Templar as DPS. Said it to yourself next time some magplar/stamplar kills you in cyrodiil.
Don't get me start on tanking. Templar is the #1 tank in PvP right now. Yup, not designed for tanking.
OMG! Templars have DoT dmg. Even Jesus Beam is a DoT. nothing in the templar skill can one shot you. There are no burst dmg in templars. Compare that to an incap strike + light attack + execute on a NB or a curse to crystal frags to mage's wrath from a sorc. All those will burst you in an instant unless you're wearing full heavy armor.
Anyhow I am done talking to you kid. It is very clear to me you are a noob. And I am not letting you waste anymore of my time. Good luck in cyro AD scrub.
Want to do it that way? Fine. Listen. If you are a magplar, and you get killed by anyone in a 1v1, doesn't matter if it's a sorc, a nightblade, or anything, then you are a noob. Magplars in heavy armour are super strong in PvP.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
nemisan✭✭✭hmsdragonfly, I can't add anything more to what me-ming has typed to you.... exeeter702, well, your not the only one to be playing a temp since beta: you know well enough that they were intended to be the healer of the trinity. I understand zos are going for the' play how you like like' way, irregardless classes should be role specific to a certain degree, and so far zos have nerfed 2/3 of said trinity, and half the remainer, all it needs now is for the lovely nerf hammer to come down on sorcs, of the magic kind, and then wardens, and boom: everyone will be p£$sed off! Hard to imagine that less than 10 hours ago I was bouncing at the thought of the new expansion, kinda glad I didn't pre order it atm, tbh ...0
-
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »
No. I wouldn't be upset with that. But then again, when that happens do you think this game is still diverse? And that is my point, there was a reason these skills are in a Templar kit and not in any other class. that's what makes this game diverse, and that's what make the Templar class the best class for healing... SO yeah, to answer your question, no I wouldn't be upset, but I am asking you, do you think what you are suggesting would be fun, just because you want to heal on your sorc?
Please answer my question. You never answered this. Do you think every class should have the same skill kit, just so you as a sorc healer could be viable for healing too?
Is that what diversity is to you? All classes should have the same skill set, so that they can all be viable heals, dps and tank?
Take a look at Templar's tanking kit. Take a look at Nightblade's tanking kit. Then, take a look at DK's tanking kit. They are not the same. That's diversity.
Same with DPS. Take a look at Nightblade's DPS kit. Then take a look at Sorc's DPS kit. Are they the same? No. The playstyle of a Templar DPS is different from the playstyle of a Sorc DPS. That's diversity.
Same will go for healing. Playing a DK healer will be a completely different experience from playing a Templar healer. That's diversity.
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
teladoy✭✭✭✭✭As Templar healer I have to say i don't like these changes if i want to play with my templar, but from the other side will, this would help me if i want to heal with my sorcerer to don't being discriminate.
What i want to say is that Templars are like the most wanted as healer and when someone see a Sorcerer with a Bird they think this is a completly fail...
Now people will be more open mind.
This is exactly why the nerfs shouldn't go live. What they did was disable templars. Why? So other classes can be viable healers too? Why make something worse when there is nothing wrong with it. Why hate on templars. You (and I am talking generally, not to the one who posted the comment) chose to be a sorc healer. YOU wanted it. Why do you want to be like a templar healer? Maybe you should just have been a templar healer then. Not a sorc.
In other words what you are saying is: I play a Templar healer, I don't play Sorcerer and I want to be better than any other class when it comes to heal, to always be the most prefered.
In my opinion is not a matter of chose... Templars would still be the best option in healing Terms, but now with the nerfs, people will start to think and see that Sorcerers, well... now they are not too far behind Templars in healing Terms... and that a Bird can heal and etc.
I'm saying to you, my main healers is a Templar and now I'm playing a sorcerer and really i don't like when I want to heal with it and the people don't like, because of this reason.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o57I4SSaGp8