Bow needs a new ultimate

killimandrosb16_ESO

I double checked my build, and yes, I have effectively removed it and replaced it with dawnbreaker. Maybe ill go for another one, but not bow. I am obviously not enough of a player to effectively use it, unfortunately. But for weak players like me and I suspect the big majority of the bow user players please change it to be more noob friendly. Like make it instant or cc

Toc de Malsvi

This is the same forum though where everyone whined about how powerful Ballista and Onslaught would be and how gimpy the destro ultimate was even after the buff.....

It's crazy though, cause everyone keeps using that destro ult and virtually no one is using Ballista or Onslaught....I guess they all like being weak.

hedna123b14_ESO

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

As text says. I admit I am a snipe monkey in pvp/cyrodiil, so feel free to mock me for that, but, the bow ultimate is a total joke. In theory the damage isnt bad, but is it really? 4 second channeling of damage (which actually can be OUT damaged by 4 secs of normal gameplay/weaving -.- ) which can be dodged. I dont really understand what the developers were thinking, and I doubt its very useful in PvE either (as a decent bow damage dealer should anyway be able to outdps the channeling spell in 4 secs). So what would I have instead of this? Either a good AoE targeted ground attack (like sorcs) or a movable shield of some sort or at least a good single target burst attack

In PvE it is anazing if you want to keep the 8% from Dawnbreaker on your main bar. A very strong aingle target ulti.

danno8

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

so that means you have a good way of actually using this ultimate in cyrodiil? I would very much love to be enlightened as I have it specced but not slotted after a lot of testing. I just can not find any reason why I would slot this ultimate at all, and as a NB I am then stuck with melee ultis, while I want a ranged ulti to go with my bow specc

Pardon me, I was assuming you meant the Ballista one that allows you to keep fighting while it hits your opponent. I would never use the other morph.

Also I would not use this Ultimate until you have taken your opponent down a bit in health and/or resources, then at around half health cast it and keep applying pressure, after a couple seconds apply an unblockable CC like fear, Petrify (not sure what your class is) and hope for the best.

Is it a super popular Ulti? No. But that's because Dawnbreaker is the king of all (stamina) Ultimates still, except maybe for DK's take flight.

Rohamad_Ali

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

That's strange because on my stamblade I get hate tells all the time for that ultimate . Double check your build .

Back when I used to run a pure one shot build with Alchemist I would get tells all the time then too, didn't make it good, you couldn't reliably kill anyone who put any real effort into defenses. It reliably kills offensive players who are used to being protected by zergs.

Alchemist is not optimal for bow build in my opinion . It is optimized for a gank build and that is all . Hawkeye and Marksmen work way better in a fight that goes beyond any initial surprise bow attacks .

IcyDeadPeople

The toxic barrage morph is pretty strong if you are wearing Morag Tong. Keep in mind after it finishes there is another DoT that does the same damage all over again.

Ballista is the better choice overall though. You can set it then fear enemy, dps them down while it's firing.

hmsdragonfly

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Stun them before using the ballista you genius.

There is a one second delay before damage starts, this means they can break free and mitigate.

If you wait to stun, they see it coming and mitigate.

If Ballista was worth a damn, you would see good players and steamers using it everywhere. It isn't.

It can kill people sure, just like anything in the game can kill people. It has too high of a cost, for pathetic effectiveness.

Oh hell yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whw4guvk_dA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQuWV1AXvnc
9:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3w0ZmuzGcA

Anything else you would like to say?

Rohamad_Ali

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

The toxic barrage morph is pretty strong if you are wearing Morag Tong. Keep in mind after it finishes there is another DoT that does the same damage all over again.

Ballista is the better choice overall though. You can set it then fear enemy, dps them down while it's firing.

^ An that is the optimal execution of ballista . The fear stun is is so hard to break it gives the ballista time to run undefended while finishing a rotation .

But let's be honest . Not everyone is a candidate for a bow gank . Someone running 30K plus in tank gear is not a good target for any class to believe they can just jump and take down quickly . An no ultimate should give any class that option to everyone .

That heartland set gives a big damage reduction to player attacks and from siege damage . I attacked a guy in the middle of siege fire and he was tanking that damage no problem . There are a lot of sets to consider someone could be wearing .

Toc de Malsvi

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

Thats not what Im asking for. Im asking for a bow ultimate which is compareable for a bow user to other classes ultimate. The ballistas best advantage point is the fact I can do damage while the ballista fires. I know it has its situational uses. What the bow user needs is a burst ultimate preferably or even a good cc ultimate. Id take roots with poison anyday as an example. I followed and tried Alcasts build and I have all his abilities/gear/skills slotted and Im happy, but not with the ultimate. Its weak. Its not good Im considering using Soul Assault

Bow ultimate is the deadliest single-target ultimate in the game. Yes, the deadliest. But, you have to learn how to us it, bow ult is not an one trick pony so you can't just click it anytime and hope it will kill an enemy, no, no, bow ult actually requires skills, that's what I like about it.
There are 2 ways to utilize bow ult:
1) Burst. You cannot just use bow ult and expect it will kill something, nope, what I usually do, is firstly keep pressure on the enemy, to drain their stamina. When I know the enemy is low on stam, I cc him then bow ult immediately. Fear + bow ult for stamblade, power of the light + jav + bow ult for stamplar, fossilize + bow ult for stamdk, ballista + streak for stamsorc. You can also use Draining Shot, Bombard or another CC of your choice.
2) If someone is chasing you and you don't want to pick up that fight because you are low in health or in resources, pop up bow ult. Then, you can safely retreat and come back to fight when you are ready.

P/S: I used to be a sniper when i first started PvPing. But once i got better, I deleted my bow one-shot build, it's just too boring because it requires no skills. No shame in being a sniper when you are learning PvP, (you don't know how to utilize bow ult so you must be new). The only thing matters is that what you will do when you get better.

Clearly, your either a troll, or have never used the bow ult against any half baked PVPer.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Bow ultimate is the deadliest single-target ultimate in the game. Yes, the deadliest.

Yes as long as they don't do anything to try an stop you it's amazing.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

1) Burst. You cannot just use bow ult and expect it will kill something, nope, what I usually do, is firstly keep pressure on the enemy, to drain their stamina. When I know the enemy is low on stam, I cc him then bow ult immediately. Fear + bow ult for stamblade, power of the light + jav + bow ult for stamplar, fossilize + bow ult for stamdk, ballista + streak for stamsorc. You can also use Draining Shot, Bombard or another CC of your choice.

Clearly you are fighting potatoes, if you think you can use a bow to wear down someones stamina while being impervious to damage. If you CC then Bow ult, they will have the time to break free before damage hits them, then shield, LOS, block dodge, reflect. The only way this is possible is with Stam drain poisons and an open field. Which is a ton of resources put into killing one player.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

2) If someone is chasing you and you don't want to pick up that fight because you are low in health or in resources, pop up bow ult. Then, you can safely retreat and come back to fight when you are ready.

It's like you have never PVP'd before... I mean other players certainly cant dodge roll while chasing you right? Or mist, or streak+shield?

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

P/S: I used to be a sniper when i first started PvPing. But once i got better, I deleted my bow one-shot build, it's just too boring because it requires no skills. No shame in being a sniper when you are learning PvP, (you don't know how to utilize bow ult so you must be new). The only thing matters is that what you will do when you get better.

Ah yes, here's the troll coming out. GTFO and go back to your meta AP farming trash.

Troll, hah. Nice insult. Well at least i am educated, which you clearly aren't. We are in a civilized discussion here, if you think you can't stand a civilized discussion, there's always a door behind you.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Clearly you are fighting potatoes, if you think you can use a bow to wear down someones stamina while being impervious to damage. If you CC then Bow ult, they will have the time to break free before damage hits them, then shield, LOS, block dodge, reflect. The only way this is possible is with Stam drain poisons and an open field. Which is a ton of resources put into killing one player.

Who said I wear down people's resource with a bow. Dual wield, two-handed, sword and board, hello? Yes, people can break free, that's why I try to wear down their stamina first you genius. Does it always work? No. Nothing always works. Just like the meteor + CC combo, it doesn't always work, but why people still use that combo genius? Because when it works, it works, and the chance of success is high enough for people to use, get it?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

It's like you have never PVP'd before... I mean other players certainly cant dodge roll while chasing you right? Or mist, or streak+shield?

You realize that they have to dodge roll out of ballista's range, right? That means 2 or 3 dodge rolls continuously. By the time they get out of it, with many times dodge rolling, mistform, or whatever, I already get behind cover, get my resources back, buff up, and ready to get back to the fight. Never heard of resetting a fight?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ah yes, here's the troll coming out. GTFO and go back to your meta AP farming trash.

More insults. Mere. Well good thing I am educated and it looks like someone here isn't :P

You must be the type of person who says meteor is useless because it can be blocked lol.

It stopped being civilized when you started patronizing other players.

No they don't have to dodge roll out of ballista's range, which you would know if you had used it for any decent amount of time. They only need to dodge roll twice. That will mitigate 90% if not all of the damage.

One shield from a Sorc will keep them alive, two shields will keep them at full health, Mist will mitigate the damage by itself without slowing down to even cast. Gap closing will keep them on you between casts if they even need to cast.

Telling players they can just Ballista an run is so ignorant that it can only be considered either a lie from lack of knowledge, or a lie because you are deliberately trolling.

Beyond the fact that, the situation which you espouse is so unique that it is useless for PVP combat. One person chasing you alone, with enough gap for you to use the bow ult to try an pressure and escape. It's ridiculous and misleading.

You can't already get behind cover if they are chasing you, you might get a second maybe two if you are lucky. I know its revolutionary but most players can dodge roll and move forward at the same time. And roughly half of the stam players in PVP get a speed boost for doing it. Mist gives speed boost so they can chase faster, and that is ignoring simply gap closing to your position.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Troll, hah. Nice insult. Well at least i am educated, which you clearly aren't.

You try to insult me with my education, while leaving your 'i' un-capitalized....GOLDEN

killimandrosb16_ESO

I didnt know there were so many bad players and why do I never meet them. Every time I tried that fear plus ballista setup in what would be ok scenarios (enemy used some stamina) I never got anything out of it. Maybe because TF, I dont know, but I never in 3 weeks of much testing and looking at those videos pulled it off. And in a keep defence/zergfight it doesnt look appealing at all (and since I never was very good 1v1 and I prefer teamplay to ganking I hate it). I find it puzzling this ability must have so many circumstances to be optimal to be any good, but what do I know. I want an easy to use ultimate which can be applied in all pvp settings at trueflame. Which apply either damage or cc to tanks, sorcerers and whatever. Something wich is of value I can add to the fight. I cant find the value in this ultimate. I dont want to super prepare for a skill before I can use it. I want a full functional ultimate on par with the other classes ultimate for a ranged damage dealer.

ArchMikem

Honestly though the Bow Ultimate has saved my skin a few times in the past in Cyrodiil. I got jumped once by a ganker that was part of a repelled siege, and if it had been before the Weapon Ult update I would've certainly lost that fight, but I cast Toxic Barrage and it was obvious the ganker wasn't prepared for that. That sudden pressure gave me the advantage.

Ballista would be even better as it would free you up to continue your own attacks while it channels by itself, increasing the damage done. That can also be beneficial in PvE.

Toc de Malsvi

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Stun them before using the ballista you genius.

There is a one second delay before damage starts, this means they can break free and mitigate.

If you wait to stun, they see it coming and mitigate.

If Ballista was worth a damn, you would see good players and steamers using it everywhere. It isn't.

It can kill people sure, just like anything in the game can kill people. It has too high of a cost, for pathetic effectiveness.

Oh hell yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whw4guvk_dA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQuWV1AXvnc
9:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3w0ZmuzGcA

Anything else you would like to say?

LMAO

Your first video he NEVER uses the bow ultimate....

Your next two Alcast only uses it on players that are standing AFK for him to attack to demonstrate

TRYAGAIN

killimandrosb16_ESO

ah true, they do look like afk...well..guess point proven

Rohamad_Ali

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

I didnt know there were so many bad players and why do I never meet them. Every time I tried that fear plus ballista setup in what would be ok scenarios (enemy used some stamina) I never got anything out of it. Maybe because TF, I dont know, but I never in 3 weeks of much testing and looking at those videos pulled it off. And in a keep defence/zergfight it doesnt look appealing at all (and since I never was very good 1v1 and I prefer teamplay to ganking I hate it). I find it puzzling this ability must have so many circumstances to be optimal to be any good, but what do I know. I want an easy to use ultimate which can be applied in all pvp settings at trueflame. Which apply either damage or cc to tanks, sorcerers and whatever. Something wich is of value I can add to the fight. I cant find the value in this ultimate. I dont want to super prepare for a skill before I can use it. I want a full functional ultimate on par with the other classes ultimate for a ranged damage dealer.

Magnum shot / ballista + snipes works as well . But if you want easy mode ultimate Eye of the storm is always available . You can also run a dominant 2handed set up and one shot people with 2 handed Ult and get it back for free every time .

If you are anywhere near a Zerg , you are not going to enjoy anything except AOE ultimates .

killimandrosb16_ESO

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

I didnt know there were so many bad players and why do I never meet them. Every time I tried that fear plus ballista setup in what would be ok scenarios (enemy used some stamina) I never got anything out of it. Maybe because TF, I dont know, but I never in 3 weeks of much testing and looking at those videos pulled it off. And in a keep defence/zergfight it doesnt look appealing at all (and since I never was very good 1v1 and I prefer teamplay to ganking I hate it). I find it puzzling this ability must have so many circumstances to be optimal to be any good, but what do I know. I want an easy to use ultimate which can be applied in all pvp settings at trueflame. Which apply either damage or cc to tanks, sorcerers and whatever. Something wich is of value I can add to the fight. I cant find the value in this ultimate. I dont want to super prepare for a skill before I can use it. I want a full functional ultimate on par with the other classes ultimate for a ranged damage dealer.

Magnum shot / ballista + snipes works as well . But if you want easy mode ultimate Eye of the storm is always available . You can also run a dominant 2handed set up and one shot people with 2 handed Ult and get it back for free every time .

If you are anywhere near a Zerg , you are not going to enjoy anything except AOE ultimates .

I think I already mentioned Im happy with the ultimate I got on my sorc (eots) and DK. I am not happy with the bow ultimate But imagine if I had an AoE trap instead of ballista, with 2 morph possibilities; 1 snake trap (magica use) a venom trap which can be fired from a relative safe distance in the path of the rolling zerg, or 2; den of traps (stamina use) which stuns/locks players within the AoE cirle. WOuld be good against zergs and I would slot it instead of dawnbreaker. But if you play on EU Trueflame maybe you could learn me how to use the ballista?

Edziu

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

That's strange because on my stamblade I get hate tells all the time for that ultimate . Double check your build .

yeah this is strange and funny when I get hate tells after killed someone with combo with balista but they was really weak..
When I was fighting agains someone just better, not very good balista was nonsense agains him, after put balista and then cc and trying to finish him this better player after just after 1st second of balista duration have cc immunity and just healing/blocking/shielding/rolldodging so rest 3 seconods of balista is wasted as for expensive ulti.

much better is working just dawnbreaker or also meteor with cc in moment before hit

Toc de Malsvi

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

That's strange because on my stamblade I get hate tells all the time for that ultimate . Double check your build .

Back when I used to run a pure one shot build with Alchemist I would get tells all the time then too, didn't make it good, you couldn't reliably kill anyone who put any real effort into defenses. It reliably kills offensive players who are used to being protected by zergs.

Alchemist is not optimal for bow build in my opinion . It is optimized for a gank build and that is all . Hawkeye and Marksmen work way better in a fight that goes beyond any initial surprise bow attacks .

I do not disagree. Point is getting tells because you killed someone with something, is not a good argument for the usefulness and effectiveness of that something. I still get the occasional tell just for killing someone using a bow, it doesn't mean that bow is OP.

SodanTok

From PVP point of view. If you think this ult is good because you used 175 ranged ulti with melee CC to hold someone for 1-2sec so they eat 25-50% of its damage. I would like to offer you this 100 cost ulti that has CC built in with even better damage for that 1sec, all while being AoE, passively increase your weapon damage and is night impossible to avoid it.

Maybe if there were some ranged stam CC, and it was cheaper and maybe even undodgable then at least ballista could be considered good. The second morph would have to work like destro ult to be ever even usable.

hmsdragonfly

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

Thats not what Im asking for. Im asking for a bow ultimate which is compareable for a bow user to other classes ultimate. The ballistas best advantage point is the fact I can do damage while the ballista fires. I know it has its situational uses. What the bow user needs is a burst ultimate preferably or even a good cc ultimate. Id take roots with poison anyday as an example. I followed and tried Alcasts build and I have all his abilities/gear/skills slotted and Im happy, but not with the ultimate. Its weak. Its not good Im considering using Soul Assault

Bow ultimate is the deadliest single-target ultimate in the game. Yes, the deadliest. But, you have to learn how to us it, bow ult is not an one trick pony so you can't just click it anytime and hope it will kill an enemy, no, no, bow ult actually requires skills, that's what I like about it.
There are 2 ways to utilize bow ult:
1) Burst. You cannot just use bow ult and expect it will kill something, nope, what I usually do, is firstly keep pressure on the enemy, to drain their stamina. When I know the enemy is low on stam, I cc him then bow ult immediately. Fear + bow ult for stamblade, power of the light + jav + bow ult for stamplar, fossilize + bow ult for stamdk, ballista + streak for stamsorc. You can also use Draining Shot, Bombard or another CC of your choice.
2) If someone is chasing you and you don't want to pick up that fight because you are low in health or in resources, pop up bow ult. Then, you can safely retreat and come back to fight when you are ready.

P/S: I used to be a sniper when i first started PvPing. But once i got better, I deleted my bow one-shot build, it's just too boring because it requires no skills. No shame in being a sniper when you are learning PvP, (you don't know how to utilize bow ult so you must be new). The only thing matters is that what you will do when you get better.

Clearly, your either a troll, or have never used the bow ult against any half baked PVPer.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Bow ultimate is the deadliest single-target ultimate in the game. Yes, the deadliest.

Yes as long as they don't do anything to try an stop you it's amazing.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

1) Burst. You cannot just use bow ult and expect it will kill something, nope, what I usually do, is firstly keep pressure on the enemy, to drain their stamina. When I know the enemy is low on stam, I cc him then bow ult immediately. Fear + bow ult for stamblade, power of the light + jav + bow ult for stamplar, fossilize + bow ult for stamdk, ballista + streak for stamsorc. You can also use Draining Shot, Bombard or another CC of your choice.

Clearly you are fighting potatoes, if you think you can use a bow to wear down someones stamina while being impervious to damage. If you CC then Bow ult, they will have the time to break free before damage hits them, then shield, LOS, block dodge, reflect. The only way this is possible is with Stam drain poisons and an open field. Which is a ton of resources put into killing one player.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

2) If someone is chasing you and you don't want to pick up that fight because you are low in health or in resources, pop up bow ult. Then, you can safely retreat and come back to fight when you are ready.

It's like you have never PVP'd before... I mean other players certainly cant dodge roll while chasing you right? Or mist, or streak+shield?

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

P/S: I used to be a sniper when i first started PvPing. But once i got better, I deleted my bow one-shot build, it's just too boring because it requires no skills. No shame in being a sniper when you are learning PvP, (you don't know how to utilize bow ult so you must be new). The only thing matters is that what you will do when you get better.

Ah yes, here's the troll coming out. GTFO and go back to your meta AP farming trash.

Troll, hah. Nice insult. Well at least i am educated, which you clearly aren't. We are in a civilized discussion here, if you think you can't stand a civilized discussion, there's always a door behind you.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Clearly you are fighting potatoes, if you think you can use a bow to wear down someones stamina while being impervious to damage. If you CC then Bow ult, they will have the time to break free before damage hits them, then shield, LOS, block dodge, reflect. The only way this is possible is with Stam drain poisons and an open field. Which is a ton of resources put into killing one player.

Who said I wear down people's resource with a bow. Dual wield, two-handed, sword and board, hello? Yes, people can break free, that's why I try to wear down their stamina first you genius. Does it always work? No. Nothing always works. Just like the meteor + CC combo, it doesn't always work, but why people still use that combo genius? Because when it works, it works, and the chance of success is high enough for people to use, get it?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

It's like you have never PVP'd before... I mean other players certainly cant dodge roll while chasing you right? Or mist, or streak+shield?

You realize that they have to dodge roll out of ballista's range, right? That means 2 or 3 dodge rolls continuously. By the time they get out of it, with many times dodge rolling, mistform, or whatever, I already get behind cover, get my resources back, buff up, and ready to get back to the fight. Never heard of resetting a fight?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ah yes, here's the troll coming out. GTFO and go back to your meta AP farming trash.

More insults. Mere. Well good thing I am educated and it looks like someone here isn't :P

You must be the type of person who says meteor is useless because it can be blocked lol.

It stopped being civilized when you started patronizing other players.

No they don't have to dodge roll out of ballista's range, which you would know if you had used it for any decent amount of time. They only need to dodge roll twice. That will mitigate 90% if not all of the damage.

One shield from a Sorc will keep them alive, two shields will keep them at full health, Mist will mitigate the damage by itself without slowing down to even cast. Gap closing will keep them on you between casts if they even need to cast.

Telling players they can just Ballista an run is so ignorant that it can only be considered either a lie from lack of knowledge, or a lie because you are deliberately trolling.

Beyond the fact that, the situation which you espouse is so unique that it is useless for PVP combat. One person chasing you alone, with enough gap for you to use the bow ult to try an pressure and escape. It's ridiculous and misleading.

You can't already get behind cover if they are chasing you, you might get a second maybe two if you are lucky. I know its revolutionary but most players can dodge roll and move forward at the same time. And roughly half of the stam players in PVP get a speed boost for doing it. Mist gives speed boost so they can chase faster, and that is ignoring simply gap closing to your position.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Troll, hah. Nice insult. Well at least i am educated, which you clearly aren't.

You try to insult me with my education, while leaving your 'i' un-capitalized....GOLDEN

Oh, so what have I said that can offend (or "patronize", whatever) the other player? Can you please enlighten me?

Meanwhile, take a look at your comment and think about yourself, and what you have achieved in life, are you that desperate in your life that you have to go to the internet to insult a random guy who is trying to help another player? If you have a different opinion, you can simply ... express your opinion in a civilized manner, but no, you have to insult people, you are what? Best ESO player or something? Are you that desperate in your life?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

One shield from a Sorc will keep them alive, two shields will keep them at full health, Mist will mitigate the damage by itself without slowing down to even cast. Gap closing will keep them on you between casts if they even need to cast.

Sorc shields will keep them sorcs alive from everything, don't know what's your point here. Same with mistform, it mitigates even soul assault. Gap closing is a good counterplay, useful but situational. You can block/dodge roll, sure, good counterplays, that's why try to drain your enemy's stam by keeping pressure before using the ult.
The difference between a balanced ability and an unbalanced ability is that there are counterplays to a balanced ability. You can counterplay Ballista, if you fail to do so, you are dead, if you succeed, you live. It's the point. An ballista user tries his best to set up the ult so that the enemy cannot counterplay it, by using CC, by wearing off his stam etc, and the enemy tries his best to make counterplays, that's the point of this game and what separates good players from bad players. Do you know why soul assault is way over the top? Because there's only one counterplay, LOS, and it is situational. Ballista is in a good spot right now, it is good, but not OP, you have to set it up properly to make it work, it's not your one trick pony that you can just one-click and the enemy dies, that's why it's a great ult.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Telling players they can just Ballista an run is so ignorant that it can only be considered either a lie from lack of knowledge, or a lie because you are deliberately trolling.

You can't already get behind cover if they are chasing you, you might get a second maybe two if you are lucky. I know its revolutionary but most players can dodge roll and move forward at the same time. And roughly half of the stam players in PVP get a speed boost for doing it. Mist gives speed boost so they can chase faster, and that is ignoring simply gap closing to your position.

I don't "run away" as in "run and hide from the enemy". By "run away", I mean resetting a fight, get behind cover so the enemy cannot keep pressure on me with ranged attacks, buff up, by the time he dodge rolls 2, 3 times, mist form or whatever (and dodge rolling or mistforming means that he cannot keep pressure on me with his attacks), I already get behind a tree or something and get my health, my resources back, buff up and ready for the next fight.

Oh, and since I use Ballista, it means I have speed buff as well.

Don't take my words for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQuWV1AXvnc

9:30

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

You try to insult me with my education, while leaving your 'i' un-capitalized....GOLDEN

"Oh look, this guy made a typo while speaking a foreign language, it means he is not educated!" Well, at least you tried.

Toc de Malsvi

Take Meter for instance.

You can't dodge out of it, it's AOE, it has a Knockdown, it has similar cost(200 vs 175), it empowers your next skill, it increases your Magicka and magica recovery.

The imbalance is insane.

Rohamad_Ali

Wanting a AOE Bow ultimate is just personal preference . Depending on what exactly it did would determine if I was for it or against it . I was just saying I am able to find the current ultimate useful . Not everyone shares the same experience in PVP , I get that . I'm not for or against any changes , just trying to share anything that could potentially help with current version . Carry on .

IcyDeadPeople

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

The toxic barrage morph is pretty strong if you are wearing Morag Tong. Keep in mind after it finishes there is another DoT that does the same damage all over again.

Ballista is the better choice overall though. You can set it then fear enemy, dps them down while it's firing.

^ An that is the optimal execution of ballista . The fear stun is is so hard to break it gives the ballista time to run undefended while finishing a rotation .

But let's be honest . Not everyone is a candidate for a bow gank . Someone running 30K plus in tank gear is not a good target for any class to believe they can just jump and take down quickly . An no ultimate should give any class that option to everyone .

That heartland set gives a big damage reduction to player attacks and from siege damage . I attacked a guy in the middle of siege fire and he was tanking that damage no problem . There are a lot of sets to consider someone could be wearing .

Is the ballista morph considered siege damage?

Rohamad_Ali

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

The toxic barrage morph is pretty strong if you are wearing Morag Tong. Keep in mind after it finishes there is another DoT that does the same damage all over again.

Ballista is the better choice overall though. You can set it then fear enemy, dps them down while it's firing.

^ An that is the optimal execution of ballista . The fear stun is is so hard to break it gives the ballista time to run undefended while finishing a rotation .

But let's be honest . Not everyone is a candidate for a bow gank . Someone running 30K plus in tank gear is not a good target for any class to believe they can just jump and take down quickly . An no ultimate should give any class that option to everyone .

That heartland set gives a big damage reduction to player attacks and from siege damage . I attacked a guy in the middle of siege fire and he was tanking that damage no problem . There are a lot of sets to consider someone could be wearing .

Is the ballista morph considered siege damage?

I don't think so . I think he was getting the benefit of the player damage reduction . The siege damage reduction allowed him to fight in with trebs landing around him . He couldn't do any real damage though .

hmsdragonfly

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

I didnt know there were so many bad players and why do I never meet them. Every time I tried that fear plus ballista setup in what would be ok scenarios (enemy used some stamina) I never got anything out of it. Maybe because TF, I dont know, but I never in 3 weeks of much testing and looking at those videos pulled it off. And in a keep defence/zergfight it doesnt look appealing at all (and since I never was very good 1v1 and I prefer teamplay to ganking I hate it). I find it puzzling this ability must have so many circumstances to be optimal to be any good, but what do I know. I want an easy to use ultimate which can be applied in all pvp settings at trueflame. Which apply either damage or cc to tanks, sorcerers and whatever. Something wich is of value I can add to the fight. I cant find the value in this ultimate. I dont want to super prepare for a skill before I can use it. I want a full functional ultimate on par with the other classes ultimate for a ranged damage dealer.

In zergfights, meteor is much better, even when it doesn't deal flame damage. It's an AOE with stun while bow ult is a single-target ability. Plus, there are just too many healers, and the front line tanks are way too tanky.

Bow ult is great for small scale combat. An ability cannot be shaped to your playstyle, you have to choose an ability that fits your playstyle

hmsdragonfly

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Take Meter for instance.

You can't dodge out of it, it's AOE, it has a Knockdown, it has similar cost(200 vs 175), it empowers your next skill, it increases your Magicka and magica recovery.

The imbalance is insane.

You can block it.

Toc de Malsvi

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Oh, so what have I said that can offend (or "patronize", whatever) the other player? Can you please enlighten me?

Meanwhile, take a look at your comment and think about yourself, and what you have achieved in life, are you that desperate in your life that you have to go to the internet to insult a random guy who is trying to help another player? If you have a different opinion, you can simply ... express your opinion in a civilized manner, but no, you have to insult people, you are what? Best ESO player or something? Are you that desperate in your life?

How bout you re-read what you wrote:

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

P/S: I used to be a sniper when i first started PvPing. But once i got better, I deleted my bow one-shot build, it's just too boring because it requires no skills. No shame in being a sniper when you are learning PvP, (you don't know how to utilize bow ult so you must be new). The only thing matters is that what you will do when you get better.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Sorc shields will keep them sorcs alive from everything, don't know what's your point here. Same with mistform, it mitigates even soul assault. Gap closing is a good counterplay, useful but situational. You can block/dodge roll, sure, good counterplays, that's why try to drain your enemy's stam by keeping pressure before using the ult.
The difference between a balanced ability and an unbalanced ability is that there are counterplays to a balanced ability. You can counterplay Ballista, if you fail to do so, you are dead, if you succeed, you live. It's the point. An ballista user tries his best to set up the ult so that the enemy cannot counterplay it, by using CC, by wearing off his stam etc, and the enemy tries his best to make counterplays, that's the point of this game and what separates good players from bad players. Do you know why soul assault is way over the top? Because there's only one counterplay, LOS, and it is situational. Ballista is in a good spot right now, it is good, but not OP, you have to set it up properly to make it work, it's not your one trick pony that you can just one-click and the enemy dies, that's why it's a great ult.

No, its a no trick pony. Possibly the least effective ultimate in PVP, with the most counters, and a prohibitively high cost.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I don't "run away" as in "run and hide from the enemy". By "run away", I mean resetting a fight, get behind cover so the enemy cannot keep pressure on me with ranged attacks, buff up, by the time he dodge rolls 2, 3 times, mist form or whatever (and dodge rolling or mistforming means that he cannot keep pressure on me with his attacks), I already get behind a tree or something and get my health, my resources back, buff up and ready for the next fight.

Oh, and since I use Ballista, it means I have speed buff as well.

Don't take my words for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQuWV1AXvnc

Making claims about the supposed effectiveness of something is very easy to do, demonstrating that in live action is a whole other matter. No one is claiming that Ballista can never kill anyone. It is possibly the least effective ultimate out there though and has the most counters of any. With a prohibitively high cost.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

"Oh look, this guy made a typo while speaking a foreign language, it means he is not educated!" Well, at least you tried.

You are the one insulting others about their education while also failing to properly type, don't try and turn it around because you chose your insults poorly.

LadyLavina

I'm sure I'll be crucified for this, but it would have been amazing if it was like those enemy archers that go "Taking Aim!" , channel with red light, then hit you for an obscene amount of dmg with a single arrow.

idk

Probably the most solid ranged PvE bow/bow build posted. Have not seen any other bow builds work as well and yes, it uses the bow ultimate.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

Even for PvP the same morph should still rock.

hmsdragonfly

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Stun them before using the ballista you genius.

There is a one second delay before damage starts, this means they can break free and mitigate.

If you wait to stun, they see it coming and mitigate.

If Ballista was worth a damn, you would see good players and steamers using it everywhere. It isn't.

It can kill people sure, just like anything in the game can kill people. It has too high of a cost, for pathetic effectiveness.

Oh hell yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whw4guvk_dA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQuWV1AXvnc
9:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3w0ZmuzGcA

Anything else you would like to say?

LMAO

Your first video he NEVER uses the bow ultimate....

Your next two Alcast only uses it on players that are standing AFK for him to attack to demonstrate

TRYAGAIN

Watch his stream, he uses it all the time.

Now you are changing criteria? You said "If Ballista was worth a damn, you would see good players and steamers using it everywhere." I prove that good players do use it. Then now you complain about them not showing actual gameplay footage of ballista in their videos, lol, like if they care what you want. What's your next criteria? Let me write them down, so, what's next, Fengrush has to be in the video?

If they don't use it, why do they slot it and explain how to use it?

Or, we can simply ask people who made those videos. @Alcast , do you feel that Ballista is a good tool to escape and reset fight?

Toc de Malsvi

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Probably the most solid ranged PvE bow/bow build posted. Have not seen any other bow builds work as well and yes, it uses the bow ultimate.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

Even for PvP the same morph should still rock.

Ballista is good for PVE, that's not even being debated.

Ballista is very weak for PVP. That is the debate

.........................Ballista...........Soul Assault........Ice Comet
cost.....................175...................100...................200
base damage....5530(4.4s)........5672(3.5s).........1581(456 per second, 10s)
dodgeable.............yes....................no....................no
Cloakable..............yes....................no....................no
reflectable.............yes....................no....................no
blockable..............yes....................yes...................yes
knockdown............no.....................no....................yes
snare.....................no.....................yes...................yes
AOE.......................no.....................no....................yes
tied to weapon.......yes....................no....................no
recovery boost.......no.....................no....................magika
stat boost..............no.....................no....................magika
Delayfordmg.........yes(1s)...............no....................yes(2s)


All of the bold are area's where Ballista loses out to another ranged ultimate.