Sorc Pets in Trials - Dev Response?

dpencil

@ZOS_GinaBruno

First of all, I want to congratulate the combat team for actually making sorcerer pets a desirable choice for the community at large. They've always held a niche spot and have been considered worthless by most, but the last couple patches have seen them really come into their own as staples of the sorcerer class, as they were always intended to be. And we're excited for the further improvements to pet control, resummoning, and CP attribution coming in Morrowind.

However, I'm sure you've seen many players discuss how pets have some major problems in certain Trials fights. This forces many sorcerers who would play with pets in all content to change their build for these occasions. One shot mechanics and other negative effects cause them to be a problem. So I am asking, can the team please look at these issues and make adjustments so that pets can be used in these fights?

For example, weren't the pets supposed to be limited to only being able to receive a max damage on any hit equal to 40% of their health? It would seem some boss mechanics don't take this into account. Also, pets should not be triggering chain lightning or other negative group effects.

Please, Gina, let us know this is something we can expect to see fixed in the future.

Long live pet sorcs!

Waffennacht

Pretty sure the max hit thing is only a PvP thing

souravami

I'd say tone down the pet's damage a little and make some improvements so that they can be used on every trials without causing any problems to the group. It's really frustrating to switch between different setups for bosses like the mage or the twins.

dpencil

Waffennacht wrote: »

Pretty sure the max hit thing is only a PvP thing

@Waffennacht Got a link to the patch note for this? I tried to track it down but couldn't find it anywhere.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

souravami wrote: »

I'd say tone down the pet's damage a little and make some improvements so that they can be used on every trials without causing any problems to the group. It's really frustrating to switch between different setups for bosses like the mage or the twins.

I would be on board with toning them down a bit in exchange for better functionality. Hard to deny that the familiars are OP in certain fights, but the problem is they arent even viable on others. Take your pet to VSO HM and see what happens. As a sorc, it requires both changing your armor and your curse morph if you want to maximize your damage with and without a pet. I think that is definitely something that needs looked at.

Things I would do:

-Tone down the damage a bit. Perhaps tone down the AOE component, which would bring Sorc splash damage back to reality.
-Make absolutely sure a pet can never aggro a fight.
-Make them immune to PVE one-shots, but not invincible.
-Reduce the cast time after a pet death if recast immediately after they die.
-Make a sorc pet automatically target any enemy that you inflict with curse. I think that would be a great way to give faster control.

Tasear

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

I'd say tone down the pet's damage a little and make some improvements so that they can be used on every trials without causing any problems to the group. It's really frustrating to switch between different setups for bosses like the mage or the twins.

I would be on board with toning them down a bit in exchange for better functionality. Hard to deny that the familiars are OP in certain fights, but the problem is they arent even viable on others. Take your pet to VSO HM and see what happens. As a sorc, it requires both changing your armor and your curse morph if you want to maximize your damage with and without a pet. I think that is definitely something that needs looked at.

Things I would do:

-Tone down the damage a bit. Perhaps tone down the AOE component, which would bring Sorc splash damage back to reality.
-Make absolutely sure a pet can never aggro a fight.
-Make them immune to PVE one-shots, but not invincible.
-Reduce the cast time after a pet death if recast immediately after they die.
-Make a sorc pet automatically target any enemy that you inflict with curse. I think that would be a great way to give faster control.

Pets don't aggro fight, but people do. Your pet has been framed.

I don't agree with nerfing damage. They are fine and competitive as is. The cast I'd fine in my opinion, just they a work a way around the disvantage.

For instance did you know your pet gets the bone shield morph you with no extra cost when you synergy with an ally?

As such I think pets are first wave of tactics instead of brute force. Though it would be nice to program them a bit. Like attack side while I do right.

Izaki

Tasear wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

I'd say tone down the pet's damage a little and make some improvements so that they can be used on every trials without causing any problems to the group. It's really frustrating to switch between different setups for bosses like the mage or the twins.

I would be on board with toning them down a bit in exchange for better functionality. Hard to deny that the familiars are OP in certain fights, but the problem is they arent even viable on others. Take your pet to VSO HM and see what happens. As a sorc, it requires both changing your armor and your curse morph if you want to maximize your damage with and without a pet. I think that is definitely something that needs looked at.

Things I would do:

-Tone down the damage a bit. Perhaps tone down the AOE component, which would bring Sorc splash damage back to reality.
-Make absolutely sure a pet can never aggro a fight.
-Make them immune to PVE one-shots, but not invincible.
-Reduce the cast time after a pet death if recast immediately after they die.
-Make a sorc pet automatically target any enemy that you inflict with curse. I think that would be a great way to give faster control.

Pets don't aggro fight, but people do. Your pet has been framed.

I don't agree with nerfing damage. They are fine and competitive as is. The cast I'd fine in my opinion, just they a work a way around the disvantage.

For instance did you know your pet gets the bone shield morph you with no extra cost when you synergy with an ally?

As such I think pets are first wave of tactics instead of brute force. Though it would be nice to program them a bit. Like attack side while I do right.

Pets are fine?! How do you explain the fact that a magicka sorcerer from full range, with insane AoE and survivability in trials can pull more single target DPS than any other class (including stamina classes)? That's right you don't. I'm currently pulling 46.4k with just drain on a target dummy on a pet sorc. I'm pulling 44k on a stamina nightblade. See the problem here? The best stam DK I know is pulling around 45.5-46k. So its perfectly fine for a pet sorc to do just as much damage as a melee class with literally nothing for defense?

Tasear

Range vs melee

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

I'd say tone down the pet's damage a little and make some improvements so that they can be used on every trials without causing any problems to the group. It's really frustrating to switch between different setups for bosses like the mage or the twins.

I would be on board with toning them down a bit in exchange for better functionality. Hard to deny that the familiars are OP in certain fights, but the problem is they arent even viable on others. Take your pet to VSO HM and see what happens. As a sorc, it requires both changing your armor and your curse morph if you want to maximize your damage with and without a pet. I think that is definitely something that needs looked at.

Things I would do:

-Tone down the damage a bit. Perhaps tone down the AOE component, which would bring Sorc splash damage back to reality.
-Make absolutely sure a pet can never aggro a fight.
-Make them immune to PVE one-shots, but not invincible.
-Reduce the cast time after a pet death if recast immediately after they die.
-Make a sorc pet automatically target any enemy that you inflict with curse. I think that would be a great way to give faster control.

Pets don't aggro fight, but people do. Your pet has been framed.

I don't agree with nerfing damage. They are fine and competitive as is. The cast I'd fine in my opinion, just they a work a way around the disvantage.

For instance did you know your pet gets the bone shield morph you with no extra cost when you synergy with an ally?

As such I think pets are first wave of tactics instead of brute force. Though it would be nice to program them a bit. Like attack side while I do right.

Pets are fine?! How do you explain the fact that a magicka sorcerer from full range, with insane AoE and survivability in trials can pull more single target DPS than any other class (including stamina classes)? That's right you don't. I'm currently pulling 46.4k with just drain on a target dummy on a pet sorc. I'm pulling 44k on a stamina nightblade. See the problem here? The best stam DK I know is pulling around 45.5-46k. So its perfectly fine for a pet sorc to do just as much damage as a melee class with literally nothing for defense?

Cause you are like the top 1 be if this is unbuffed, if you consider you have to recast in actually battle then it all balances out. You have to manually trageting enemies. You are looking at numbers not gameplay.

Izaki

My solution:

- Reduce the radius of the Scamp Pulse from 6m to 5m
- Reduce the damage of the Scamp Pulse by 10%
- Pets can only take 45% of their damage in one hit
- Reduce the summoning time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec
- Increase pet movement speed by 30%
- Pets don't steal player buffs

In conjuction with Daedric Prey, the Scamp Pulse will still be stronger than Liquid Lightning which is the strongest ground placed AoE DoT in the game, which means that it still has a benefit. It is also more reliably now due to the fact that it can't get one shot, but can only die to several consecutive hits in a very short time frame (basically 3 consecutive hits). This will make pets more desirable, but not too desirable. Right now their damage is ridiculous, but they are terribly clunky (especially on consoles). With the changes above, their damage will be brought back to realistic DPS levels, but still be very strong in terms of damage and they will be less clunky.

Now I really think that Sorcerer pets need a re-skin however. As of now they look absolutely terrible... I would have pictured pets as more "majestic" Deadra, not some lowly Daedric slaves. Take the Storm Atronach for example: it looks amazing. It also doesn't seem right that the Sorcere is a master summoner yet can only summon lesser Daedra. I could understand why the first ability in the skill tree summons a lesser Daedra, but not the 3rd skill.

About that: the fact that we have a Scamp as our Volatile Familiar makes no sense at all. Scamps are usually found doing fire attacks, while ours does lightning, which is just inconsistent and inexplainable. Banekins are the ones that perform shock magic. So technically we should have a Banekin instead of a Scamp. @ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to have our pet fit the lore a bit more!

As for the second pet we get in our skill line, the Twilight, I'd personally would love to see one morph as a Grievous Twilight (the one that does more damage hint hint). The healing morph seems suitable with the Winged Twilight.

Also it would be nice to have an actual ability on the damaging morph of a Twilight, something that actually feels like an ability you cast, not just a pet buff...

Just my thoughts on pets.

Rrokanrolle

Wait, so after I respec from a 2H Pet sorc to a 2H spellblade, they make pets more powerful?

Well carp.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Tasear wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

I'd say tone down the pet's damage a little and make some improvements so that they can be used on every trials without causing any problems to the group. It's really frustrating to switch between different setups for bosses like the mage or the twins.

I would be on board with toning them down a bit in exchange for better functionality. Hard to deny that the familiars are OP in certain fights, but the problem is they arent even viable on others. Take your pet to VSO HM and see what happens. As a sorc, it requires both changing your armor and your curse morph if you want to maximize your damage with and without a pet. I think that is definitely something that needs looked at.

Things I would do:

-Tone down the damage a bit. Perhaps tone down the AOE component, which would bring Sorc splash damage back to reality.
-Make absolutely sure a pet can never aggro a fight.
-Make them immune to PVE one-shots, but not invincible.
-Reduce the cast time after a pet death if recast immediately after they die.
-Make a sorc pet automatically target any enemy that you inflict with curse. I think that would be a great way to give faster control.

Pets don't aggro fight, but people do. Your pet has been framed.

I don't agree with nerfing damage. They are fine and competitive as is. The cast I'd fine in my opinion, just they a work a way around the disvantage.

For instance did you know your pet gets the bone shield morph you with no extra cost when you synergy with an ally?

As such I think pets are first wave of tactics instead of brute force. Though it would be nice to program them a bit. Like attack side while I do right.

The damage is pretty OP. Even on totally self buffed skele-parses, my pet is doing 8k single target DPS. That is admittedly a lot. I dont want to nerf my own class, but here is the issue. Sorc (right or wrong) is under the nerf microscope right now. Everyone is crying about them. While I dont think there single target DPS is OP (DK is better), I do think their splash damage is perhaps a little out of line and the pet is 90% of that. I would much rather them balance one skill a bit than hit the whole class with a nerf hammer as they usually do.

BalicBlackthorne

Lol, I must have specced my Sorc into the wrong pet lines My pets don't do any AOE that I am aware of. (Clanfear and Winged Twilight, twilight specced for heal ability).

NOTE: I just came back to this game after about a year absence due to the game's system reqs outstripping my friend's computer, so I'm not colossally stupid, just colossally ignorant

Not that my Sorc is sucking or anything, I haven't drug him into a dungeon since my return, but he's doing OK so far. I used to run Storm Mage spec in dungeons, maybe I'll try the pets out now in there.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

BalicBlackthorne wrote: »

Lol, I must have specced my Sorc into the wrong pet lines My pets don't do any AOE that I am aware of. (Clanfear and Winged Twilight, twilight specced for heal ability).

NOTE: I just came back to this game after about a year absence due to the game's system reqs outstripping my friend's computer, so I'm not colossally stupid, just colossally ignorant

Not that my Sorc is sucking or anything, I haven't drug him into a dungeon since my return, but he's doing OK so far. I used to run Storm Mage spec in dungeons, maybe I'll try the pets out now in there.

The only pet worth considering from a damage perspective is the volatile familiar (other morph of your clannfear). It does an 8 second AOE damage pulse, which must be cast as part of your rotation. Magic sorcs are running the necropotence set these days, which gives us north of 50k magic. These pets hit VERY hard if spec'ed properly. I had one hit for 14k DPS on the first boss of normal MOL yesterday. Total parse was like 71k. Not that normal means much as its nothing but a minute long stack and burn, but it does show the power of these little guys, especially when adds are around.

Izaki

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

I'd say tone down the pet's damage a little and make some improvements so that they can be used on every trials without causing any problems to the group. It's really frustrating to switch between different setups for bosses like the mage or the twins.

I would be on board with toning them down a bit in exchange for better functionality. Hard to deny that the familiars are OP in certain fights, but the problem is they arent even viable on others. Take your pet to VSO HM and see what happens. As a sorc, it requires both changing your armor and your curse morph if you want to maximize your damage with and without a pet. I think that is definitely something that needs looked at.

Things I would do:

-Tone down the damage a bit. Perhaps tone down the AOE component, which would bring Sorc splash damage back to reality.
-Make absolutely sure a pet can never aggro a fight.
-Make them immune to PVE one-shots, but not invincible.
-Reduce the cast time after a pet death if recast immediately after they die.
-Make a sorc pet automatically target any enemy that you inflict with curse. I think that would be a great way to give faster control.

Pets don't aggro fight, but people do. Your pet has been framed.

I don't agree with nerfing damage. They are fine and competitive as is. The cast I'd fine in my opinion, just they a work a way around the disvantage.

For instance did you know your pet gets the bone shield morph you with no extra cost when you synergy with an ally?

As such I think pets are first wave of tactics instead of brute force. Though it would be nice to program them a bit. Like attack side while I do right.

The damage is pretty OP. Even on totally self buffed skele-parses, my pet is doing 8k single target DPS. That is admittedly a lot. I dont want to nerf my own class, but here is the issue. Sorc (right or wrong) is under the nerf microscope right now. Everyone is crying about them. While I dont think there single target DPS is OP (DK is better), I do think their splash damage is perhaps a little out of line and the pet is 90% of that. I would much rather them balance one skill a bit than hit the whole class with a nerf hammer as they usually do.

I'm just wondering how a magicka DK can outparse a scamp Sorc in single target... The most crazy single target numbers I've seen this patch have all been pet Sorcs, not DKs. Even on the target skeleton, I'm having trouble picturing a magicka DK pulling over 45k DPS (which isn't too hard to achieve on a scamp Sorc with the Necro setup with just Drain and Orbs). I don't want my own class nerfed, but right now, the Scamp is really over the top... Its a shame because it will most likely be overnerfed and rendered useless once again...

Oreyn_Bearclaw

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

I'd say tone down the pet's damage a little and make some improvements so that they can be used on every trials without causing any problems to the group. It's really frustrating to switch between different setups for bosses like the mage or the twins.

I would be on board with toning them down a bit in exchange for better functionality. Hard to deny that the familiars are OP in certain fights, but the problem is they arent even viable on others. Take your pet to VSO HM and see what happens. As a sorc, it requires both changing your armor and your curse morph if you want to maximize your damage with and without a pet. I think that is definitely something that needs looked at.

Things I would do:

-Tone down the damage a bit. Perhaps tone down the AOE component, which would bring Sorc splash damage back to reality.
-Make absolutely sure a pet can never aggro a fight.
-Make them immune to PVE one-shots, but not invincible.
-Reduce the cast time after a pet death if recast immediately after they die.
-Make a sorc pet automatically target any enemy that you inflict with curse. I think that would be a great way to give faster control.

Pets don't aggro fight, but people do. Your pet has been framed.

I don't agree with nerfing damage. They are fine and competitive as is. The cast I'd fine in my opinion, just they a work a way around the disvantage.

For instance did you know your pet gets the bone shield morph you with no extra cost when you synergy with an ally?

As such I think pets are first wave of tactics instead of brute force. Though it would be nice to program them a bit. Like attack side while I do right.

The damage is pretty OP. Even on totally self buffed skele-parses, my pet is doing 8k single target DPS. That is admittedly a lot. I dont want to nerf my own class, but here is the issue. Sorc (right or wrong) is under the nerf microscope right now. Everyone is crying about them. While I dont think there single target DPS is OP (DK is better), I do think their splash damage is perhaps a little out of line and the pet is 90% of that. I would much rather them balance one skill a bit than hit the whole class with a nerf hammer as they usually do.

I'm just wondering how a magicka DK can outparse a scamp Sorc in single target... The most crazy single target numbers I've seen this patch have all been pet Sorcs, not DKs. Even on the target skeleton, I'm having trouble picturing a magicka DK pulling over 45k DPS (which isn't too hard to achieve on a scamp Sorc with the Necro setup with just Drain and Orbs). I don't want my own class nerfed, but right now, the Scamp is really over the top... Its a shame because it will most likely be overnerfed and rendered useless once again...

Well, we all get a very narrow view of parses in the grand scheme of things, but I have seen DKs parses in the mid 50s single target, and sorcs being low 50s. NBs and Templars seem to be able to do just about 50 as well. Templars have the downside of needing to be melee, and nightblades dont have nearly the splash damage. The craziest total parses I have seen this patch are sorc, but the best single target parses I have seen are DK.

If a sorc gets guard and is able to use a pet, they can match a DK single target. Most raids arent giving their sorcs guard, and every trial has at least one non-pet friendly encounter, so there are some draw backs.

exeeter702

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

My solution:

- Reduce the radius of the Scamp Pulse from 6m to 5m
- Reduce the damage of the Scamp Pulse by 10%
- Pets can only take 45% of their damage in one hit
- Reduce the summoning time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec
- Increase pet movement speed by 30%
- Pets don't steal player buffs

In conjuction with Daedric Prey, the Scamp Pulse will still be stronger than Liquid Lightning which is the strongest ground placed AoE DoT in the game, which means that it still has a benefit. It is also more reliably now due to the fact that it can't get one shot, but can only die to several consecutive hits in a very short time frame (basically 3 consecutive hits). This will make pets more desirable, but not too desirable. Right now their damage is ridiculous, but they are terribly clunky (especially on consoles). With the changes above, their damage will be brought back to realistic DPS levels, but still be very strong in terms of damage and they will be less clunky.

Now I really think that Sorcerer pets need a re-skin however. As of now they look absolutely terrible... I would have pictured pets as more "majestic" Deadra, not some lowly Daedric slaves. Take the Storm Atronach for example: it looks amazing. It also doesn't seem right that the Sorcere is a master summoner yet can only summon lesser Daedra. I could understand why the first ability in the skill tree summons a lesser Daedra, but not the 3rd skill.

About that: the fact that we have a Scamp as our Volatile Familiar makes no sense at all. Scamps are usually found doing fire attacks, while ours does lightning, which is just inconsistent and inexplainable. Banekins are the ones that perform shock magic. So technically we should have a Banekin instead of a Scamp. @ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to have our pet fit the lore a bit more!

As for the second pet we get in our skill line, the Twilight, I'd personally would love to see one morph as a Grievous Twilight (the one that does more damage hint hint). The healing morph seems suitable with the Winged Twilight.

Also it would be nice to have an actual ability on the damaging morph of a Twilight, something that actually feels like an ability you cast, not just a pet buff...

Just my thoughts on pets.

Pets dont steal player buffs

Izaki

exeeter702 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

My solution:

- Reduce the radius of the Scamp Pulse from 6m to 5m
- Reduce the damage of the Scamp Pulse by 10%
- Pets can only take 45% of their damage in one hit
- Reduce the summoning time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec
- Increase pet movement speed by 30%
- Pets don't steal player buffs

In conjuction with Daedric Prey, the Scamp Pulse will still be stronger than Liquid Lightning which is the strongest ground placed AoE DoT in the game, which means that it still has a benefit. It is also more reliably now due to the fact that it can't get one shot, but can only die to several consecutive hits in a very short time frame (basically 3 consecutive hits). This will make pets more desirable, but not too desirable. Right now their damage is ridiculous, but they are terribly clunky (especially on consoles). With the changes above, their damage will be brought back to realistic DPS levels, but still be very strong in terms of damage and they will be less clunky.

Now I really think that Sorcerer pets need a re-skin however. As of now they look absolutely terrible... I would have pictured pets as more "majestic" Deadra, not some lowly Daedric slaves. Take the Storm Atronach for example: it looks amazing. It also doesn't seem right that the Sorcere is a master summoner yet can only summon lesser Daedra. I could understand why the first ability in the skill tree summons a lesser Daedra, but not the 3rd skill.

About that: the fact that we have a Scamp as our Volatile Familiar makes no sense at all. Scamps are usually found doing fire attacks, while ours does lightning, which is just inconsistent and inexplainable. Banekins are the ones that perform shock magic. So technically we should have a Banekin instead of a Scamp. @ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to have our pet fit the lore a bit more!

As for the second pet we get in our skill line, the Twilight, I'd personally would love to see one morph as a Grievous Twilight (the one that does more damage hint hint). The healing morph seems suitable with the Winged Twilight.

Also it would be nice to have an actual ability on the damaging morph of a Twilight, something that actually feels like an ability you cast, not just a pet buff...

Just my thoughts on pets.

Pets dont steal player buffs

They steal the heals which is arguably worse than stealing buffs and they do steal Powerful Assault.

SirMewser

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

My solution:

- Reduce the radius of the Scamp Pulse from 6m to 5m
- Reduce the damage of the Scamp Pulse by 10%
- Pets can only take 45% of their damage in one hit
- Reduce the summoning time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec
- Increase pet movement speed by 30%
- Pets don't steal player buffs

In conjuction with Daedric Prey, the Scamp Pulse will still be stronger than Liquid Lightning which is the strongest ground placed AoE DoT in the game, which means that it still has a benefit. It is also more reliably now due to the fact that it can't get one shot, but can only die to several consecutive hits in a very short time frame (basically 3 consecutive hits). This will make pets more desirable, but not too desirable. Right now their damage is ridiculous, but they are terribly clunky (especially on consoles). With the changes above, their damage will be brought back to realistic DPS levels, but still be very strong in terms of damage and they will be less clunky.

Now I really think that Sorcerer pets need a re-skin however. As of now they look absolutely terrible... I would have pictured pets as more "majestic" Deadra, not some lowly Daedric slaves. Take the Storm Atronach for example: it looks amazing. It also doesn't seem right that the Sorcere is a master summoner yet can only summon lesser Daedra. I could understand why the first ability in the skill tree summons a lesser Daedra, but not the 3rd skill.

About that: the fact that we have a Scamp as our Volatile Familiar makes no sense at all. Scamps are usually found doing fire attacks, while ours does lightning, which is just inconsistent and inexplainable. Banekins are the ones that perform shock magic. So technically we should have a Banekin instead of a Scamp. @ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to have our pet fit the lore a bit more!

As for the second pet we get in our skill line, the Twilight, I'd personally would love to see one morph as a Grievous Twilight (the one that does more damage hint hint). The healing morph seems suitable with the Winged Twilight.

Also it would be nice to have an actual ability on the damaging morph of a Twilight, something that actually feels like an ability you cast, not just a pet buff...

Just my thoughts on pets.

Pets dont steal player buffs

They steal the heals which is arguably worse than stealing buffs and they do steal Powerful Assault.

What a silly sausage!!~

If that is true, people better start reporting that the "smart heal" system is broken, NPCs/Pets are under prioritized to players even if, and not limited to, having less health in percentage comparison checks as it would apply to an ally being more damaged than other, the heal is allocated to them instead unless the cap of applying is greater than one, then it goes to 2nd lowest.

As adorable as you are, the definition of "stealing" implies to take, the only time NPCs/Pets are suppose to be healed/buffed with this system is when the effect is directed at the pet specifically in ability mechanics which allow it, if no player is present in valid range of the heal/buff to have otherwise received the effects anyways, the pet gets it, or if all players are getting the buff but the cap is not limited to the maximum number of players within the instance of casting, so the pets benefit also!

Isn't that amazing?!
The internet is a wonderful thing, so much learning, hopefully this post has been read, because if statements like what I am replying to keep popping up, we may as well not ever have constructive posts, because no one is going to read them!

If this is not valid information, then the smart heal system is simply broken and has nothing to do with the pets, indirectly.

exeeter702

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

My solution:

- Reduce the radius of the Scamp Pulse from 6m to 5m
- Reduce the damage of the Scamp Pulse by 10%
- Pets can only take 45% of their damage in one hit
- Reduce the summoning time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec
- Increase pet movement speed by 30%
- Pets don't steal player buffs

In conjuction with Daedric Prey, the Scamp Pulse will still be stronger than Liquid Lightning which is the strongest ground placed AoE DoT in the game, which means that it still has a benefit. It is also more reliably now due to the fact that it can't get one shot, but can only die to several consecutive hits in a very short time frame (basically 3 consecutive hits). This will make pets more desirable, but not too desirable. Right now their damage is ridiculous, but they are terribly clunky (especially on consoles). With the changes above, their damage will be brought back to realistic DPS levels, but still be very strong in terms of damage and they will be less clunky.

Now I really think that Sorcerer pets need a re-skin however. As of now they look absolutely terrible... I would have pictured pets as more "majestic" Deadra, not some lowly Daedric slaves. Take the Storm Atronach for example: it looks amazing. It also doesn't seem right that the Sorcere is a master summoner yet can only summon lesser Daedra. I could understand why the first ability in the skill tree summons a lesser Daedra, but not the 3rd skill.

About that: the fact that we have a Scamp as our Volatile Familiar makes no sense at all. Scamps are usually found doing fire attacks, while ours does lightning, which is just inconsistent and inexplainable. Banekins are the ones that perform shock magic. So technically we should have a Banekin instead of a Scamp. @ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to have our pet fit the lore a bit more!

As for the second pet we get in our skill line, the Twilight, I'd personally would love to see one morph as a Grievous Twilight (the one that does more damage hint hint). The healing morph seems suitable with the Winged Twilight.

Also it would be nice to have an actual ability on the damaging morph of a Twilight, something that actually feels like an ability you cast, not just a pet buff...

Just my thoughts on pets.

Pets dont steal player buffs

They steal the heals which is arguably worse than stealing buffs and they do steal Powerful Assault.

No they do not. Sorry but you are misinformed. Anything smart casted in this game by default prioritizes players before pets. The only time a pet would "steal" powerfull assault or SPC is if there was no applicable player target within range. If a player is so far out of range, (virtually impossible in 4 man dungeons) they would not be making use of the buff(s) anyways and in trials if you are out of range from BOTH healers' buffs then you are definitely not in need of buffs and should be removed from the group lol.

And even after all of that, for SPC, which has a duration of 3 seconds before refresh, if you are out of range and the buff is applied to a pet instead, you are going to be without it for 2 seconds at MOST, before it refreshed and is applied to you when you come back within range. For powerful assault sure a 15 second duration is more significant but again if you arent nearby when warhorn vigor, caltrops etc you are doing something very wrong.

Pets do not steal buffs from players. They are the final applicable targets if no player is in range to recieve. And as far as stealing heals? That makes zero sense.

Gilliamtherogue

Completely balanced! :^)

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

My solution:

- Reduce the radius of the Scamp Pulse from 6m to 5m
- Reduce the damage of the Scamp Pulse by 10%
- Pets can only take 45% of their damage in one hit
- Reduce the summoning time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec
- Increase pet movement speed by 30%
- Pets don't steal player buffs

In conjuction with Daedric Prey, the Scamp Pulse will still be stronger than Liquid Lightning which is the strongest ground placed AoE DoT in the game, which means that it still has a benefit. It is also more reliably now due to the fact that it can't get one shot, but can only die to several consecutive hits in a very short time frame (basically 3 consecutive hits). This will make pets more desirable, but not too desirable. Right now their damage is ridiculous, but they are terribly clunky (especially on consoles). With the changes above, their damage will be brought back to realistic DPS levels, but still be very strong in terms of damage and they will be less clunky.

Now I really think that Sorcerer pets need a re-skin however. As of now they look absolutely terrible... I would have pictured pets as more "majestic" Deadra, not some lowly Daedric slaves. Take the Storm Atronach for example: it looks amazing. It also doesn't seem right that the Sorcere is a master summoner yet can only summon lesser Daedra. I could understand why the first ability in the skill tree summons a lesser Daedra, but not the 3rd skill.

About that: the fact that we have a Scamp as our Volatile Familiar makes no sense at all. Scamps are usually found doing fire attacks, while ours does lightning, which is just inconsistent and inexplainable. Banekins are the ones that perform shock magic. So technically we should have a Banekin instead of a Scamp. @ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to have our pet fit the lore a bit more!

As for the second pet we get in our skill line, the Twilight, I'd personally would love to see one morph as a Grievous Twilight (the one that does more damage hint hint). The healing morph seems suitable with the Winged Twilight.

Also it would be nice to have an actual ability on the damaging morph of a Twilight, something that actually feels like an ability you cast, not just a pet buff...

Just my thoughts on pets.

Needs to be more than a 10% nerf. Daedric Prey needs to go.

SirMewser

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Completely balanced! :^)

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

My solution:

- Reduce the radius of the Scamp Pulse from 6m to 5m
- Reduce the damage of the Scamp Pulse by 10%
- Pets can only take 45% of their damage in one hit
- Reduce the summoning time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec
- Increase pet movement speed by 30%
- Pets don't steal player buffs

In conjuction with Daedric Prey, the Scamp Pulse will still be stronger than Liquid Lightning which is the strongest ground placed AoE DoT in the game, which means that it still has a benefit. It is also more reliably now due to the fact that it can't get one shot, but can only die to several consecutive hits in a very short time frame (basically 3 consecutive hits). This will make pets more desirable, but not too desirable. Right now their damage is ridiculous, but they are terribly clunky (especially on consoles). With the changes above, their damage will be brought back to realistic DPS levels, but still be very strong in terms of damage and they will be less clunky.

Now I really think that Sorcerer pets need a re-skin however. As of now they look absolutely terrible... I would have pictured pets as more "majestic" Deadra, not some lowly Daedric slaves. Take the Storm Atronach for example: it looks amazing. It also doesn't seem right that the Sorcere is a master summoner yet can only summon lesser Daedra. I could understand why the first ability in the skill tree summons a lesser Daedra, but not the 3rd skill.

About that: the fact that we have a Scamp as our Volatile Familiar makes no sense at all. Scamps are usually found doing fire attacks, while ours does lightning, which is just inconsistent and inexplainable. Banekins are the ones that perform shock magic. So technically we should have a Banekin instead of a Scamp. @ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to have our pet fit the lore a bit more!

As for the second pet we get in our skill line, the Twilight, I'd personally would love to see one morph as a Grievous Twilight (the one that does more damage hint hint). The healing morph seems suitable with the Winged Twilight.

Also it would be nice to have an actual ability on the damaging morph of a Twilight, something that actually feels like an ability you cast, not just a pet buff...

Just my thoughts on pets.

Needs to be more than a 10% nerf. Daedric Prey needs to go.

Thanks for sharing!

Personally want to disagree, daedric prey was originally beneficial to the Winged Twilight and Storm Atronach before pet actives were even made ZoS allowed daedric prey to buff the Scamp's active skill.

I don't like where this is going. Something does have to change though.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Completely balanced! :^)

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

My solution:

- Reduce the radius of the Scamp Pulse from 6m to 5m
- Reduce the damage of the Scamp Pulse by 10%
- Pets can only take 45% of their damage in one hit
- Reduce the summoning time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec
- Increase pet movement speed by 30%
- Pets don't steal player buffs

In conjuction with Daedric Prey, the Scamp Pulse will still be stronger than Liquid Lightning which is the strongest ground placed AoE DoT in the game, which means that it still has a benefit. It is also more reliably now due to the fact that it can't get one shot, but can only die to several consecutive hits in a very short time frame (basically 3 consecutive hits). This will make pets more desirable, but not too desirable. Right now their damage is ridiculous, but they are terribly clunky (especially on consoles). With the changes above, their damage will be brought back to realistic DPS levels, but still be very strong in terms of damage and they will be less clunky.

Now I really think that Sorcerer pets need a re-skin however. As of now they look absolutely terrible... I would have pictured pets as more "majestic" Deadra, not some lowly Daedric slaves. Take the Storm Atronach for example: it looks amazing. It also doesn't seem right that the Sorcere is a master summoner yet can only summon lesser Daedra. I could understand why the first ability in the skill tree summons a lesser Daedra, but not the 3rd skill.

About that: the fact that we have a Scamp as our Volatile Familiar makes no sense at all. Scamps are usually found doing fire attacks, while ours does lightning, which is just inconsistent and inexplainable. Banekins are the ones that perform shock magic. So technically we should have a Banekin instead of a Scamp. @ZOS_GinaBruno would be nice to have our pet fit the lore a bit more!

As for the second pet we get in our skill line, the Twilight, I'd personally would love to see one morph as a Grievous Twilight (the one that does more damage hint hint). The healing morph seems suitable with the Winged Twilight.

Also it would be nice to have an actual ability on the damaging morph of a Twilight, something that actually feels like an ability you cast, not just a pet buff...

Just my thoughts on pets.

Needs to be more than a 10% nerf. Daedric Prey needs to go.

@Gilliamtherogue

That's the highest single target parse on a trial boss I have seen this patch, even if it is only 93 seconds. The more I play with Daedric Prey, the more I tend to agree with that statement. I really dont want sorc to be gutted, and I worry if they try to balance in other ways that they will destroy the class. 9k is too much single target DPS for one skill, even if it does take 2 slots.

Aedaryl

15% nerf damage is needed on the scamp, but not more, it' still took 2 slot, your liquid lightning take 1 slot and only do 1k less damage than pet.

Atronach is actually bugged, we can't decide the target we want, making it useless in PvP when there is more than one player.
Also, it deals too much damage in the duration but the impact damage is too low, and atronach don't scale with cps, even if it's an ultimate

Also, mouvement speed need to be increase, pets are slow, and it's feel a lot in cyrodiil.

Finally, pets still not enough resistant-cast time is too long. : Annyone in PvP can destroy the pet even if you shield it, and don't have the time to summon it again, even with a streak that stun your ennemy. Pets need to die less faster or take less time to summon.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Aedaryl wrote: »

15% nerf damage is needed on the scamp, but not more, it' still took 2 slot, your liquid lightning take 1 slot and only do 1k less damage than pet.

Atronach is actually bugged, we can't decide the target we want, making it useless in PvP when there is more than one player.
Also, it deals too much damage in the duration but the impact damage is too low, and atronach don't scale with cps, even if it's an ultimate

Also, mouvement speed need to be increase, pets are slow, and it's feel a lot in cyrodiil.

Finally, pets still not enough resistant-cast time is too long. : Annyone in PvP can destroy the pet even if you shield it, and don't have the time to summon it again, even with a streak that stun your ennemy. Pets need to die less faster or take less time to summon.

Well there are different ways to nerf the pet. You could nerf the base damage of the pet, or you could nerf the 55% increase in value from daedric prey. Basically we have 2 skills (which take 3 bar slots) doing about 11.5k DPS single target. Another way to look at it is that 2 of your globals in your rotation are contributing almost 6K a piece. It's not ridiculously out of line, but its definitely higher than it should be.

One thing you could do is keep Haunting curse the way it is, and nerf daedric prey by removing the Damage component and nerfing the buff component a little bit. Removing the damage component would knock 2.5K off that parse, and then you could adjust the 55% damage buff downwards to bring the pet in line. Another thing you could do is reduce the duration of the curse, thus requiring more globals to get the same amount of damage.

There are lots of ways to do it, I hope nerfing the class into the ground is no the avenue they choose.

NiclasFridholm

Actually non pet Sorcs get higher ST, its just not as easy

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5zyvt0/pceu_magicka_sorc_61k_singletarget_dps/?ref=search_posts