Battlegrounds matchmaking concerns

Cimadon

So, we all know the matchmaking system in battlegrounds will take into account cp/level and if in a group or not. Brian Wheeler said that a ranked/mmr system is not in place when battlegrounds is here.

Here is where I'm getting concerned, alot of CP does not equate to good player necessarily, there will be a huge skill gap between all the CP600 players and right now, the game puts them in the same skill pool so to say.

This is gonna get frustrating, im almost certain. I really hope they are working on a kinda ranked system on top of the existing rules (that just works behind the scenes for better matchmaking), ala the one in Rocket League. The idea is, that you have a certain amount of points, when you lose the other teams get some of your points and when you win you get some of their points, you get grouped up against teams or players with similar point total. These points are not visible of course, they are just working behind the scenes.

I'm I the only one slightly concerned about this? Shouldn't I be worried? Will matchmaking be fine with the existing rules?

RebornV3x

CP is just one of the problems class/role restrictions will play a major part of the overall balance of battlegrounds it's going to be a nightmare

Turelus

Even with an MMR system people are not going to be good enough for others.

Go and look at any MOBA and even when you have a bunch of good MMR players grouped randomly they'll complain about one another and place blame on each other.

If you want to have a good team in arenas just make your own groups (if allowed) or suck up that sometimes you might have a moron lose the game for you.

This whole thing is going to be a mess of abusive smack talk to players who don't perform the way others expect and alienate loads of the community again. I'm a average PvP player with some 1vX skill and even I don't want to partake because I don't want to deal with Grand Overlord Awesome and his smack talk about how I dropped the flag.

White wabbit

All of these is why I won't bother with battlegrounds

Turelus

White wabbit wrote: »

All of these is why I won't bother with battlegrounds

Which is really sad. I really want to give them a go and enjoy them, but I am not a great PvP player I am average at best.

I expect to get endless smack talk and abuse from people who should be on my side but are "better" than me. Maybe I should just embrace it and start a collection of screenshots and host them as a wall of shame on my website.

Torbschka

Wow, honestly, i just group in, get some fun, killing stuff and earn some medals. I will qzeue with my pvp and pve friends, sometimes with a focused group, sonetines not, i guess mostly solo.

Dont know why all of u cry that much again, and dont mean to be arrogant or anything, but this comes to from a TOP ps4 EU pvp player.

Leaderboards reset every week, so what lol, once in a while u will be top10 if u have the time and effort to do so.

Maybe im sucessful in pvp cuz i dont stress out and enjoy the game for what it is - a game.

Jitterbug

We all probably need to calm down a little. On forums, sure, but especially in game. I'm sure a lot of you have played MMOs with battlegrounds before... how much trash talk did you encounter there?
I played the literal snip out of battlegrounds in WoW, Rift, TSW, and GW2 and I can't recall any trash talk. Maybe the occasional frustrated whisper from an opponent, but never something real and tangible from a team member. Sure there can be some general "omg this team so bad" spam, but some people are just sore losers.

And @Turelus I'll be more than happy to team with you in battlegrounds - then you can just blame me. "It's the Argonian! He made me suck!"

It's the same principle with pugging dungeons. Every once in a blue moon you end up with one of those "lol you all scrubs" players, but I can easily tell that even though the team is made up of casuals, none of them are scrubby. The tank tanks, the healer heals, etc. Same will go for battlegrounds - it's supposed to be fun. So make it fun. And just ignore the guys who are having heart attacks over a mini game.

Jitterbug

Torbschka wrote: »

i dont stress out and enjoy the game for what it is - a game.

Wise words.
I get why some people get worked up, my heart rate increases and I feel the adrenaline when in a good 1v1, but you have to be able to recognize it for what it is: Fun! If I win (I probably won't) it was a good fight. And if I lose it was still a good fight.

I think the number one best thing about battlegrounds is that the respawn timer is shorter than the time it takes to horse from Ales to Bleak, so while it may be a source of major frustration to die in Cyrodiil i think (hope/pray) that people will take it less seriously when then don't have to horse for 2 minutes to get back into the fight.

Rohamad_Ali

Best to get prepared early as possible if you plan on participating in battlefields and gear up . Get a team together that works well with each other . The match making is not going to be able to calculate group gear let alone group skill . The strong teams will dominate over more casual teams . Randoms will have it the worst I think . This is just way battlefields in all games end up . Premades over pugs .

willlienellson

What I'm MOST concerned about is there being ANY WAY WHATSOEVER for groups to team up and coordinate to play at the same time against the 3rd team.

I have been tolerating ESO PVP cross-faction nonsense for years now waiting on battlegrounds.

Please, PLEASE, don't let there be a way for 8 buddies to exploit the system to que into the same 3way battle at the same time so they can 8v4 people for laughs or rewards.

100% of matches should randomly select groups to play against each other.

There are tons of annoying things about ESO PvP that I'm sure will carry over to battlegrounds, but if cross-faction
cross-team collusion is a problem like it is now, I don't think I'll be able to take it.

Jitterbug

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Premades over pugs .

I don't expect ZoS to do anything about this, and I'm happy to hear that they will attempt to pair premades with premades. But honestly, if you pug into a battle against a premade the worst that can possibly happen is that the next 15 minutes of your life will be semi-boring. So I don't fret about it.

Turelus

Thanks Jitterbug I might take you up on that. I will even leave my Dunmer bigotry at the door for a while.

I probably will play them, and although I act like a drama llama on here about the attitude of players if I do get rage whispers I will probably just laugh at them and keep playing. However of course it will have some effect on me, as no one likes being smack talked.

Jitterbug

Turelus wrote: »

Thanks Jitterbug I might take you up on that. I will even leave my Dunmer bigotry at the door for a while.

No need. I forgive any and all ignorant lolmers.

Sharee

I am not concerned about solo queue having bad players because on average it will even out - all sides will have bad players in equal measure. So you might lose a match because your teammates were bad, but the next one you win because enemy players were bad.

What im concerned about is premade groups being put into matches against random solo queuers. As ZOS stated, this will eventually happen if there are not enough premades to be faced against each other. These fights tend to be utterly unbalanced and frustrating (had enough of that in SWTOR).

Zyrudin

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, honestly, i just group in, get some fun, killing stuff and earn some medals. I will qzeue with my pvp and pve friends, sometimes with a focused group, sonetines not, i guess mostly solo.

Dont know why all of u cry that much again, and dont mean to be arrogant or anything, but this comes to from a TOP ps4 EU pvp player.

Leaderboards reset every week, so what lol, once in a while u will be top10 if u have the time and effort to do so.

Maybe im sucessful in pvp cuz i dont stress out and enjoy the game for what it is - a game.

Not affirming one way or another (I don't know you at all and this is not a provocation), but I would find it interesting to gauge your reactions after the first group mate loses the battle for you

My experience tells me that the really good players are not keen on presenting their superlative status, they instead present their skill in game, regardless of who they are grouped with, and are frequently available, without publicity, to help out the newbie or less skilled player.

Jitterbug

Zyrudin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, honestly, i just group in, get some fun, killing stuff and earn some medals. I will qzeue with my pvp and pve friends, sometimes with a focused group, sonetines not, i guess mostly solo.

Dont know why all of u cry that much again, and dont mean to be arrogant or anything, but this comes to from a TOP ps4 EU pvp player.

Leaderboards reset every week, so what lol, once in a while u will be top10 if u have the time and effort to do so.

Maybe im sucessful in pvp cuz i dont stress out and enjoy the game for what it is - a game.

Not affirming one way or another (I don't know you at all and this is not a provocation), but I would find it interesting to gauge your reactions after the first group mate loses the battle for you

My experience tells me that the really good players are not keen on presenting their superlative status, they instead present their skill in game, regardless of who they are grouped with, and are frequently available, without publicity, to help out the newbie or less skilled player.

There are various definitions of "succesful". To me, it's a greater sign of success to enjoy the game and not throw hissy fits than it is to roflstomp some noobs off their horses.

zaria

Turelus wrote: »

This whole thing is going to be a mess of abusive smack talk to players who don't perform the way others expect and alienate loads of the community again. I'm a average PvP player with some 1vX skill and even I don't want to partake because I don't want to deal with Grand Overlord Awesome and his smack talk about how I dropped the flag.

I suspect this too, look at random dungeons, in battleground stakes are higher than an 5 minute longer run.

willlienellson wrote: »

What I'm MOST concerned about is there being ANY WAY WHATSOEVER for groups to team up and coordinate to play at the same time against the 3rd team.

I have been tolerating ESO PVP cross-faction nonsense for years now waiting on battlegrounds.

Please, PLEASE, don't let there be a way for 8 buddies to exploit the system to que into the same 3way battle at the same time so they can 8v4 people for laughs or rewards.

100% of matches should randomly select groups to play against each other.

There are tons of annoying things about ESO PvP that I'm sure will carry over to battlegrounds, but if cross-faction
cross-team collusion is a problem like it is now, I don't think I'll be able to take it.

It would be hard to do an 8-4 setting as the teams are random so unless you play at very slow times like the middle of night you are unlikely to go with friendly team.
Also guess the system will prefer to match you with the same team next match as it would be annoying.

Mojomonkeyman

Turelus wrote: »

Even with an MMR system people are not going to be good enough for others.

Go and look at any MOBA and even when you have a bunch of good MMR players grouped randomly they'll complain about one another and place blame on each other.

If you want to have a good team in arenas just make your own groups (if allowed) or suck up that sometimes you might have a moron lose the game for you.

This whole thing is going to be a mess of abusive smack talk to players who don't perform the way others expect and alienate loads of the community again. I'm a average PvP player with some 1vX skill and even I don't want to partake because I don't want to deal with Grand Overlord Awesome and his smack talk about how I dropped the flag.

That doesnt change the fact that even a basic grp mmr system would increase fun on all ends of the skill spectrum, because more fights within similar tresholds are forced to happen. Just see sc2 matchmaking, we have similar spread in skill here and it will become very obvious in premade settings because the top 10% will not be matched against each other more regularly than against others.

You put a lot of assumptions based on bad individual behaviour you experienced in other games into your posts, I fail to see the context if we are talking purely about the pros and cons of mmr?!

Turelus

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Even with an MMR system people are not going to be good enough for others.

Go and look at any MOBA and even when you have a bunch of good MMR players grouped randomly they'll complain about one another and place blame on each other.

If you want to have a good team in arenas just make your own groups (if allowed) or suck up that sometimes you might have a moron lose the game for you.

This whole thing is going to be a mess of abusive smack talk to players who don't perform the way others expect and alienate loads of the community again. I'm a average PvP player with some 1vX skill and even I don't want to partake because I don't want to deal with Grand Overlord Awesome and his smack talk about how I dropped the flag.

That doesnt change the fact that even a basic grp mmr system would increase fun on all ends of the skill spectrum, because more fights within similar tresholds are forced to happen. Just see sc2 matchmaking, we have similar spread in skill here and it will become very obvious in premade settings because the top 10% will not be matched against each other more regularly than against others.

You put a lot of assumptions based on bad individual behaviour you experienced in other games into your posts, I fail to see the context if we are talking purely about the pros and cons of mmr?!

It's not just other games for behaviour. The ESO community has proven over and over again how ego/epeen create a very toxic side to PUG content in the game. As others in the thread said we just need to look at the PvE content to see what that's like, and they're far less eager on the whispers than the PvP community.

MMR system isn't really bad and I am not advocating against one, but I don't think the MMR system is going to help as it will dilute the pool of players and the top MMR players will just complain they never get grouped or grouped against the same people always.

Zyrudin

Jitterbug wrote: »

There are various definitions of "succesful". To me, it's a greater sign of success to enjoy the game and not throw hissy fits than it is to roflstomp some noobs off their horses.

I would agree, personally.

Mojomonkeyman

Turelus wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Even with an MMR system people are not going to be good enough for others.

Go and look at any MOBA and even when you have a bunch of good MMR players grouped randomly they'll complain about one another and place blame on each other.

If you want to have a good team in arenas just make your own groups (if allowed) or suck up that sometimes you might have a moron lose the game for you.

This whole thing is going to be a mess of abusive smack talk to players who don't perform the way others expect and alienate loads of the community again. I'm a average PvP player with some 1vX skill and even I don't want to partake because I don't want to deal with Grand Overlord Awesome and his smack talk about how I dropped the flag.

That doesnt change the fact that even a basic grp mmr system would increase fun on all ends of the skill spectrum, because more fights within similar tresholds are forced to happen. Just see sc2 matchmaking, we have similar spread in skill here and it will become very obvious in premade settings because the top 10% will not be matched against each other more regularly than against others.

You put a lot of assumptions based on bad individual behaviour you experienced in other games into your posts, I fail to see the context if we are talking purely about the pros and cons of mmr?!

It's not just other games for behaviour. The ESO community has proven over and over again how ego/epeen create a very toxic side to PUG content in the game. As others in the thread said we just need to look at the PvE content to see what that's like, and they're far less eager on the whispers than the PvP community.

MMR system isn't really bad and I am not advocating against one, but I don't think the MMR system is going to help as it will dilute the pool of players and the top MMR players will just complain they never get grouped or grouped against the same people always.

You don`t hear Grandmaster-sc2 players complain about the quality of their opponents. It`s up to the pool of players and the quality of the mmr system to prevent exactly that and make everyone feel comfortable in its own league...

Torbschka

Zyrudin wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Wow, honestly, i just group in, get some fun, killing stuff and earn some medals. I will qzeue with my pvp and pve friends, sometimes with a focused group, sonetines not, i guess mostly solo.

Dont know why all of u cry that much again, and dont mean to be arrogant or anything, but this comes to from a TOP ps4 EU pvp player.

Leaderboards reset every week, so what lol, once in a while u will be top10 if u have the time and effort to do so.

Maybe im sucessful in pvp cuz i dont stress out and enjoy the game for what it is - a game.

Not affirming one way or another (I don't know you at all and this is not a provocation), but I would find it interesting to gauge your reactions after the first group mate loses the battle for you

My experience tells me that the really good players are not keen on presenting their superlative status, they instead present their skill in game, regardless of who they are grouped with, and are frequently available, without publicity, to help out the newbie or less skilled player.

Well, actually I never go in and saying "Im one of the best", it was more like a defense before any1 coming in and saying " yes, cuz u are a pve guy".

All I tried to express with that statement, is, that even if u are good at something, u can still be a chilled guy and dont care mich about winning/losing.

U have a point, u dont know me so do I about you, all I can tell is that my pve friends always say to me " hey torbschka, how can u be very good in pvp and dont be a rage kid, like most of the others?".

Honestly, I want to win, if I dont I just think about and what I could have done better and, surprise, start a new one and thats it.

Zyrudin

Torbschka wrote: »

Well, actually I never go in and saying "Im one of the best", it was more like a defense before any1 coming in and saying " yes, cuz u are a pve guy".

All I tried to express with that statement, is, that even if u are good at something, u can still be a chilled guy and dont care mich about winning/losing.

U have a point, u dont know me so do I about you, all I can tell is that my pve friends always say to me " hey torbschka, how can u be very good in pvp and dont be a rage kid, like most of the others?".

Honestly, I want to win, if I dont I just think about and what I could have done better and, surprise, start a new one and thats it.

Good to hear it.

Tasear

I go in there to die with my comrades, but hopefully only after vwe kill a few of them too.

P.S I support no CP here

WillhelmBlack

I'm yet to play a game with a perfect matchmaking system. You'll get used to it.

redspecter23

If you go in with a semi competent full group of 4, I'm pretty sure your odds of winning against an assorted group of 4 players that queued up is going to be about 90%. If you take battlegrounds remotely seriously, you'll get 3 friends together and join up as a 4 main group. Pugging would be annoyance and suicide at best.