So I tried out staff taunting to replace inner fire

WalksonGraves

I have mixed results. I like that it's free, spamming inner fire just doesn't work. The delay for hvy attacks gives me a second to aim but the projectile doesn't always make it.

Having a defending staff only drops my def 1500 for phy and mag from s&b so it's not a big difference when swapped.

The bubble only serves to help show me my taunt worked. So it's cheap and unreliable vs expensive and hard to see.

I'm not sure what to replace inner fire with, ive been using overflowing altar for the group sustain.

Narvuntien

I have been told it really doesn't work . Interesting.

I was just going to use inner fire.

I hadn't decided whether to go full S&B or S&B + Ice or S&B + Resto.

How do regen magicka whille blocking?... when do you find the time to charge the heavy attack before you get hit with an ability?

WalksonGraves

Narvuntien wrote: »

I have been told it really doesn't work . Interesting.

I was just going to use inner fire.

I hadn't decided whether to go full S&B or S&B + Ice or S&B + Resto.

How do regen magicka whille blocking?... when do you find the time to charge the heavy attack before you get hit with an ability?

I don't block with the staff, I only backbar it. The only time I switch is to taunt a ranged target or deploy buffs. It's nice being able to taunt multiple ranged targets without draining your pool or wasting a slot on inner fire.

Rev Rielle

Narvuntien wrote: »

I have been told it really doesn't work . Interesting.

I was just going to use inner fire.

I hadn't decided whether to go full S&B or S&B + Ice or S&B + Resto.

How do regen magicka whille blocking?... when do you find the time to charge the heavy attack before you get hit with an ability?

For the most part you only have to block the special/heavy attacks, and the bosses don't do them all the time, otherwise, you can just fire up a heavy attack whilst they're hitting you with a lesser attack. If you have to block all the time, it might be a case of needing more defense, or health. Additionally the enemy attacks fairly slowly, it's an attack every second or so, sometimes more. So you have time, even with the exceptionally slow heavy attacks of the Frost Staff (I'm sure it's not actually slower, but it sure feels like it takes an extremely long time compared to a dual-wield attack, etc).

RavenSworn

You can also constantly taunt bosses from range such as the twins in coh1 or the last boss in coh2. Personally I find frost staff back bar is the best idea, having two resources to pull to block is a life saver at times.

g0dlik3buthumbl3

I've always found inner fire to work well and can be cast while blocking. I am, however, a magicka tank and regen my magicka very quickly. Is this just an issue for stamina tanks?

Asardes

It works. I've tried doing VCoS right after the patch with a bunch of random players from zone chat as tank. One of them had a ice staff and he kept heavy attacking Dranos. Predictably, he broke my taunt and got rekt by the "steel tornado" attack as the boss went after him instead of me. I kept telling him over the group chat to stop doing heavy attacks with that staff, and he ended up blaming me for "not tanking the boss". I had had enough by that point so I told him to read the tool tip in the destruction staff, and promptly left. This is a general problem. People don't bother to RTFM.

Magdalina

g0dlik3buthumbl3 wrote: »

I've always found inner fire to work well and can be cast while blocking. I am, however, a magicka tank and regen my magicka very quickly. Is this just an issue for stamina tanks?

There's a stamina morph of inner fire.
I haven't actually tried frost staff but I don't think I want non-instant sometimes missing taunt. As I understand it, anyway, the idea wasn't focused on making it viable endgame alternative but rather a cheap inner fire replacement for someone wanting to play magicka tank at a low level, since they'd have no way to access inner fire for quite some time. Now magicka-cost blocking might be a bit more interesting...

darthsithis

Magicka blocking eliminates my need for Tristat food for vma. Amazing stuff.

When spec tanking, heavy attack aggro is worse than inner fire, but you don't need dark deal to refill stam anymore. So free slot for immovable skill from heavy armor, extra Stam for dodge roll, or any other skill you'd want.

WalksonGraves

g0dlik3buthumbl3 wrote: »

I've always found inner fire to work well and can be cast while blocking. I am, however, a magicka tank and regen my magicka very quickly. Is this just an issue for stamina tanks?

Thing is stam uses the same pool for blocking, so having an instant cast that cost 3300 at the low end can get expensive if you miss or have multiple targets and can leave you exposed. That and the synergy is worthless. I rarely need to pull from distance so having a slower yet spammable taunt on the back bar works perfectly while freeing up a skill slot.

Lynx7386

I'm really thinking frost staff back bar for warden tanks will be ideal. Pairing frost blockade with ice shards will deal a bit of aoe damage, maim large groups of enemies and root everything in the area much like Talons or encase. You can also use that back bar for buffs or to regen stamina while maintaining block.

kessik221

I would say inner fire is still better. Its instant cast vs a 2 second charge.

WalksonGraves

kessik221 wrote: »

I would say inner fire is still better. Its instant cast vs a 2 second charge.

Yeah its got a slow rof, but you can spam it for free. The few times I need ranged taunts are for adds during bosses where depleting my pool to help out a struggling player isn't always the right move. I'm a convert no more s+b backbar for me.

Autolycus

As long as the right buffs and debuffs are still properly maintained, there's no real reason to avoid doing it.

The biggest constraint is still applying Major Fracture and Breach to the target, which is not something Inner Fire does anyway. Mitigation and block sustenance are still really good via frost staff, so using a 1H&S on the front bar with a frost on the back bar is completely viable and equally as effective, afaik. It's more efficient from a mitigation and block cost perspective, since 1H&S requires slotting an additional skill to get the same levels of mitigation/cost, but also less efficient as frost staves require slotting at least one additional skill to get the same debuffs (in other words, balance).

The Warden is the only class that has the potential to go frost/frost and be equally as effective, however, since they alone have a single ability to apply Major Fracture and Breach. Any other class using frost/frost has to jump through a few hoops to accomplish the same buffs and debuffs, using multiple skills to do the same thing (for example, a DK with Fiery Breath + Ele Drain + heavy attack to taunt, rather than simply using Pierce Armor).

Of course, I'm assuming with these statements that you're not using many ranged taunts. If a frost heavy attack is your only taunt, you're going to lag behind on a lot of pulls, and won't be as effective as simply using Pierce Armor as most tanks do now.

Lynx7386

I think the real benefit to frost staff is the ability to apply minor maim as an aoe. With chilled now maiming enemies, simply throwing down elemental blockade (or pairing it with ice starts or impulse) can apply the same debuff to a whole group

EldritchPenguin

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I think the real benefit to frost staff is the ability to apply minor maim as an aoe. With chilled now maiming enemies, simply throwing down elemental blockade (or pairing it with ice starts or impulse) can apply the same debuff to a whole group

Not to mention immobilizing enemies, which gives non-Dragonknight tanks a way to make up for their lack of Talons. Pair it with Swarm Mother, and your Nightblade tank is suddenly a lot more competitive.

Mivryna

I use frost on my main bar as a sorc tank, and it's working great for me. Dark Conversion lets me block for days. It is a bit tricky to keep up with taunting, but it's not too bad while using tab targeting.