Punishment For Leaving Group

Woopy

Hi, so I was queuing for a specific veteran dungeon today and the first time I received the pop-up to ready check, everything went fine until we all got in the dungeon. It was me, dps who is 230cp, a tank who is 550 and a healer and dps who are also around 180-200cp.

Before we could even load in fully, the tank (who was lead) disbanded the group. This was really annoying because I have been queued for quite some time.
Well, the second time I queued <12 minutes later> I got a pop-up again and it just so happened to be with the same tank. We got in the dungeon and he left the group immediately presumably because we were all 200-300cp again. Mind you it wasn't a DLC dungeon, so it's not like it required us to be some kind of insane level. Well, with him leaving and us sitting there for 20 minutes without another tank coming through we decided to just end it.

I think there should be a penalty given to those who carry a reputation of leaving pugs more often than not. A penalty that is worse than the (already annoying) 12 minute cooldown on queues. There should be an option where you can mark someone as a player you would prefer not to be paired with for future occasions. I see people complain in zone and through guild chats a number of times throughout the day about people quitting before starting and I just think something should be done about it?

Before anyone tells me to "find a static group to run with" - I do have one, but what happens when they're busy, not online, or just don't feel like running? pugs happen.

ArchMikem

Woopy wrote: »

Before anyone tells me to "find a static group to run with" - I do have one, but what happens when they're busy, not online, or just don't feel like running? pugs happen.

That's a perfect reason which is why for a lot of us the Group Finder tool is necessary even if it's a necessary evil.

Yes the penalty needs a big rework. It slaps the countdown on everyone regardless of who disbanded the group or why. Actually though the cooldown timer isn't even associated with group disbanding. Whenever you enter any group the cooldown starts, it's just Zeni most likely assumes it'll take us longer to finish the Dungeon so the timer would have reset long before we finished and queued for another. But since it starts at the creation of a group every time, it's heavily abused by group leaders that just want to grief others, punishing everyone else in the process.

FloppyTouch

Would 10mins be better? Or 5
I don't think any punishment should be given out for leaving a group it's better then vote to kick the weak link. I like to wait for the first boss fight before I leave a group if the heal sucks or dps is bad or tank no holding aggro then I'll leave.

ArchMikem

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Would 10mins be better? Or 5
I don't think any punishment should be given out for leaving a group it's better then vote to kick the weak link. I like to wait for the first boss fight before I leave a group if the heal sucks or dps is bad or tank no holding aggro then I'll leave.

Changing the cooldown won't solve the problem.

My suggestion: Apply the Cooldown timer only to the player who leaves, or disbands their group before the Activity is completed. That way the offender is penalized while the others are allowed to immediately continue.

IronCrystal

I don't see how queuing up for group finder makes me responsible for staying until the dungeon finishes. Besides, a lot of dungeons don't finish. How would you tell if its supposed to be punished or not?

Kalgert

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't see how queuing up for group finder makes me responsible for staying until the dungeon finishes. Besides, a lot of dungeons don't finish. How would you tell if its supposed to be punished or not?

Maybe there should be a time treshold as to when a leaver penalty should be applied. I think the ideal time for that would be at least five minutes, giving enough of a fair time to those who get to the first boss, wipe once or twice and then leave (Although it's still an inexcusable thing to do, ragequit over a boss...)

And a leaver debuff should be applied to the first person who leaves, an even bigger debuff to those who have the brash balls to disband the entire group for reasons of Sheogorath. A 15 minute debuff to someone who leaves, 30 minutes to someone who disbands. That way, the leaver might want to reconsider his actions (Hopefully).

If it so happens that the idea of "lul I will just AFK these five minutes", then the group can kick him and he will get said 15 minute penalty.

At least, that's my take on the idea.

Woopy

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't see how queuing up for group finder makes me responsible for staying until the dungeon finishes. Besides, a lot of dungeons don't finish. How would you tell if its supposed to be punished or not?

Because you're queuing for an instanced activity that is meant to be completed.
You would tell based on whoever left or disbanded the group..

DaveMoeDee

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't see how queuing up for group finder makes me responsible for staying until the dungeon finishes. Besides, a lot of dungeons don't finish. How would you tell if its supposed to be punished or not?

It does. That is part of queuing. It is agreeing to work with others to do the content. If you don't like that, then assemble your own group and stay out of the group finder.

This is very straightforward.

max_only

If you put that player on ignore does the system still make you group with them?

IronCrystal

Kalgert wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't see how queuing up for group finder makes me responsible for staying until the dungeon finishes. Besides, a lot of dungeons don't finish. How would you tell if its supposed to be punished or not?

Maybe there should be a time treshold as to when a leaver penalty should be applied. I think the ideal time for that would be at least five minutes, giving enough of a fair time to those who get to the first boss, wipe once or twice and then leave (Although it's still an inexcusable thing to do, ragequit over a boss...)

And a leaver debuff should be applied to the first person who leaves, an even bigger debuff to those who have the brash balls to disband the entire group for reasons of Sheogorath. A 15 minute debuff to someone who leaves, 30 minutes to someone who disbands. That way, the leaver might want to reconsider his actions (Hopefully).

If it so happens that the idea of "lul I will just AFK these five minutes", then the group can kick him and he will get said 15 minute penalty.

At least, that's my take on the idea.

I don't see why people still think it's possible to disband entire groups. That's a known bug that happens as soon as group is formed. No one has permissions to disband group finder groups or even kick players without sending out a vote.

No reason for a "debuff" to be applied to a player.

This isn't like competitive ESPORTS games where leaving a game will penalize your ranking. There are no rankings for doing dungeons in group finder.

The only way you are gonna penalize someone further than they already are is if staying in the group actually means something to the player. Having done a few thousand dungeons over the course of my time in ESO, I generally know how good players are on the first trash pull. If the group is clearly not gonna clear or I am gonna have to pull my teeth to carry them through a clear, it's not worth me staying.

I've had a group fail the dps check on the Bloodspawn in vet Spindleclutch II. I could tell they were really low dps during the first trash pulls but I needed the monster helm so I thought I'd stick around. After 3 wipes I quit. No way you could tell me I'd get punished for doing that.

Magdalina

You cannot disband groupfound groups, as been said above already. It's simply a bug you get sometimes.

Now why the tank left the second time, I don't know, but maybe he thought you guys kicked him the first time or something

EvilCroc

If I do not want to run dungeon with this PUG, or I do not want to run this exact dungeon - nothing will force me to do so.

Woopy

I'm not saying to implement an immediate system, but one where the game constantly keeps track of your last 10-15 ready checks and compares them to the amount of instances you played and the number of instances completed, along with the time spent inside of the instance (example: <5 minutes = major penalty, 5-9 minutes = minor penalty, 9+ minutes = no penalty).

If you go past a threshold put in by zos, then these examples would apply to you - however if you remain mostly of being a decent player - then the above wouldn't apply to you. It would kind of work like an avg/debuff system.

alexkdd99

Well there is something already in place to punish people who leave dungeons, the 15 minute timer.

And no 1 person can disband the entire group through group finder. What you experienced the first time seems like a bug. You use to be able to disband the group but they changed that awhile back.

The only thing you can do is initiate a vote to kick and leave the group yourself. I don't see that anything else needs to change, other than the bugs being fixed of course.

idk

Zos acknowledge the issue months ago but has yet to implement a fix. My guess is they're finding it challenging to find a fix that works well.

The concept that bring kicked from a group didn't implement a lockout has been in the GF of other games. ESO is the only one I've seen that is messed up as it is.

Players kicked from a group by any means should not be punished and group leaders should not have the power to disband the group. Especially since it takes 2 votes to kick someone it didn't make sense permit one to disband the entire group.

MaxwellC

I feel that the group shouldn't be dis-banned even if everyone leaves (had times where I felt I could pull a PuG to the end but they got tired of dying so all left which in terms kicks me out of the dungeon too) so you can find players to help you progress through the rest of the dungeon.

The timer needs to go: I've cited plenty of games where they implement a similar timer and it didn't work out at all. The easiest comparison would be with GoW4 where they put the timer in social instead of leaving it to rank, well that was changed immediately so it would only effect rank play-lists. The same goes with Evolve who use to have it in both quickplay and it's rank hunt/hunter playlists; they soon changed it to only the ranked hunt/hunter playlists.

The activity finder is no different from social play, I could understand if the activity finder had a branch that searched for trials and vDSA but it should only reflect veteran trials even in that case.

ZOS needs to understand that punishing anyone for the timer because they left the dungeon isn't the correct way to go about it. I've played plenty of group finder queues and even with the buff they give DPS is struggling to kill the boss or adds or just doesn't want to listen to advice because pride gets in the way. Healers can't heal or feels that they need to only spam Breath of life while they DPS a boss leaving the tank and other DPS trying to self sustain a fight like velidreth. Tanks who for some reason do not use pierce armor/ransack to aid their DPS but instead spam inner beast or sometimes do not even aggro the boss but just spam light/heavy attacks on it.

^Stuff like this makes you want to leave within the first 15 minutes of the dungeon as it's a headache. Why should I subject myself to playing in a group like this when I can do it quicker with players who want to learn new ways, or is open to constructive feedback on how they should play their roles.

AhPook_Is_Here

If you see someone who has left groups a lot and you don't trust him to act in your self-interest kick him from the group, they will get a cool-down before they can rejoin group-finder.

You can't really make people play, and punishing them further isn't going to make them play either. They will just log out or do something else till whenever their punishment is up, or log on an alt and re-queue while the timer runs down on their other character.

A better alternative is just to carry an alternative set of tank and healer gear and if you lose a tank or a healer, suit up, and queue in another dps, that way nobody has to wait and you can be a problem solver rather than a problem maker. Tanking is one of the easiest jobs in this game, and you don't need much cp to do it well. The problem good tanks have with bad dps is that dungeons take a lot longer than they are used to or maybe even have the time for. For me EH2 is an 8 minute proposition, if it's taking longer than that I feel the group is inexperienced. Not saying I'd leave, just saying your perception of a sound group might not be shared universally.

Violynne

ArchMikem wrote: »

My suggestion: Apply the Cooldown timer only to the player who leaves, or disbands their group before the Activity is completed. That way the offender is penalized while the others are allowed to immediately continue.

I like this suggestion.

Since all this information is stored, I would also suggest an addendum to the above in cases when group leaders disband/leave a group 2 or more times within a 30 minute period are then given a 2 hour cooldown, rather than the 12 minutes.

Upon repeating the behavior, the cooldown time doubles for every infraction.

Maybe these people will finally figure out having to wait 12 hours to enter a dungeon will be enough for them to change their behavior.

GoodFella146

I just love how the current system for getting the ideal trait of your monster shoulder is dependent on doing these horrible dailys everyday endlessly.

More often than not I get queued up with ppl new to the game that insist on killing every little skeever in the dungeon while I'm literally running though it. Almost every dungeon can be done with no healer and no tank yet the new ppl think you're garbage when you queue one of these roles, blatantly not do it, then vote to kick you from the group after you did half the dungeon requirements for them. This is what ultimately happens though when you force ppl from all over the spectrum into this system that you cannot leave upon penalty of wasting more of your time with queue timers.

I don't want to play these dungeons anymore as I already have for years, yet if I want a particular piece of gear I"m stuck dealing with randos all the time. It's such a bad system it's ridiculous. And why the hell do they allow low CP players to queue for DLC dungeons? All they do is waste everyone's time. It's a joke.

The original system was much better where we could instantly boot ppl or leave a group without wasting everyone's time.