mDK Tanking (PVP): Clever Alchemist, Burning Spellweave, Valkyn Skoria

Savos_Saren

So, I was talking about using Clever Alchemist with BSW and Valkyn on another post- I got too excited... so I went ahead and crafted everything. Mind you- this is not in Cyrodiil... so my health would be around 31,910! I also suggested using a Witches Brew (it increases your magicka recovery) but... it doesn't really look like I need it. All gear is prismatic, all legendary (except two pieces- so, the damage can be even higher!) This screenshot is with CA, BSW, and a weapon enchant procced. Without the weapon enchantment proc- it's still above 4k spell damage!

Let me know what you think!

DRXHarbinger

Your stamina is at least 10k too low for tanking. Your block will be down in seconds. Magika recovery needs to be at least 1500 for semi successfull tanking too.

DRXHarbinger

Also what is your block cost and cp arrangement. If you've gone for full power like this but just stuck on some heavy armor you're in for a battering.

AverageJo3Gam3r

@DRXHarbinger this is for PvP. Not PvE.

31k health is usually a little higher than I like to run. See if there are ways you can give up a little health to gain some magicka or stamina. Otherwise, the build looks solid on paper. Basically stay defensive until you have an ult. Wait for BSW to proc, pop potion then burst.

Lexxypwns

14k Stam is plenty for pvp tanking as long as you're super careful with your stam management and use mist to reposition when you're having stam issues.

I'd probably drop skoria and run bloodspawn since with 4500 spell damage you can probably get away without the extra burst from skoria.

Lieblingsjunge

Without having played Magicka DK much, this is the issues I see:

Recovery. How doyou expect to sustain anything running bsw + alchemist. Unless, of course, you intend on running after single people, bursting them down with 3 others chasing the same person. But for 1vX, I can't see that build being of much use tbh.
Stamina: If you plan on staying defensive while being hammered on by 1-2 people, you need higher stamina or more reduce block cost.. Like a lot of it.

Your build.. I would not label it "mDK Tanking". I would've labelled it as... No-sustain-but-good-damage-for-a-few-seconds.

DRXHarbinger

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger this is for PvP. Not PvE.

31k health is usually a little higher than I like to run. See if there are ways you can give up a little health to gain some magicka or stamina. Otherwise, the build looks solid on paper. Basically stay defensive until you have an ult. Wait for BSW to proc, pop potion then burst.

So? Have you even tanked? 1 dodge roll and block is nearly 1/3rd of that stamina pool. Get a templar chuck a spear at you and toppling charge in and start jabbing and you're block is gone, no block and that is well and truly dead meat. That recovery is also too low to rum talons / fossilise / chains and more importantly as all stats are just a little too low. Battle roar won't have a lot of effect tbh. A half decent magika pool is not for a tank at all. Some noob would run along with shield breaker on a bow build and kill you in a few seconds. Not to mention at even half that stamina he'd be lucky to block one hefty soul assault from a 80k healthplar which will fry him.

Being able to block and sustain is paramount to tanking. This is not a tank build. Heavy armor and a shield does not make you a tank. Contrary to half of them arriving via group finder. Those resistances aren't great either. Can easily add 5k to them.

Lexxypwns

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger this is for PvP. Not PvE.

31k health is usually a little higher than I like to run. See if there are ways you can give up a little health to gain some magicka or stamina. Otherwise, the build looks solid on paper. Basically stay defensive until you have an ult. Wait for BSW to proc, pop potion then burst.

So? Have you even tanked? 1 dodge roll and block is nearly 1/3rd of that stamina pool. Get a templar chuck a spear at you and toppling charge in and start jabbing and you're block is gone, no block and that is well and truly dead meat. That recovery is also too low to rum talons / fossilise / chains and more importantly as all stats are just a little too low. Battle roar won't have a lot of effect tbh. A half decent magika pool is not for a tank at all. Some noob would run along with shield breaker on a bow build and kill you in a few seconds. Not to mention at even half that stamina he'd be lucky to block one hefty soul assault from a 80k healthplar which will fry him.

Being able to block and sustain is paramount to tanking. This is not a tank build. Heavy armor and a shield does not make you a tank. Contrary to half of them arriving via group finder. Those resistances aren't great either. Can easily add 5k to them.

Maybe you don't realize, but you don't need perma-block to Pvp tank. You need to block CCs at specific times and big hitters. The rest comes mitigation and heals.

I would literally only block that Templars javelin and maybe not even that(disregard that mDK has reflect), then just heal through the sweeps while repositioning.

With Bloodspawn he'll have enough sustain, especially if he's got someone to give him magika steal

psychotic13

You'll be focusing on trying to proc your both sets and lose focus on the fight infront of you imo, and that equals death.

pjwb16_ESO

I can see it working if you use 3 cost reduction enchants for sustain, I used to run julianos + bsw + bs and it works with 3 cost reduction enchants, and alchemist and julianos aren't that big of a difference, only thing is, when 1vXing or 2vXing on Magica DK I always use m y Tri Pots on Cooldown and mostly defensive which would make it nearly impossible to proc alchemist when I want it to proc but it would rather "just be there" whenever I need resources

DRXHarbinger

psychotic13 wrote: »

You'll be focusing on trying to proc your both sets and lose focus on the fight infront of you imo, and that equals death.

That's what I mean. No alchemist or spell weave and it's sitting at a measly 2k damage tops. Fighting off ranged attackers will be a death sentence. I could kill that build with my poisonous serpent build in a few seconds once that mediocre stam pool is gone. A few Ccs as soon as I see that root is sticking, crit rush+negate and goodbye. Increase cost poisons...good luck spamming blood.

FloppyTouch

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger this is for PvP. Not PvE.

31k health is usually a little higher than I like to run. See if there are ways you can give up a little health to gain some magicka or stamina. Otherwise, the build looks solid on paper. Basically stay defensive until you have an ult. Wait for BSW to proc, pop potion then burst.

So? Have you even tanked? 1 dodge roll and block is nearly 1/3rd of that stamina pool. Get a templar chuck a spear at you and toppling charge in and start jabbing and you're block is gone, no block and that is well and truly dead meat. That recovery is also too low to rum talons / fossilise / chains and more importantly as all stats are just a little too low. Battle roar won't have a lot of effect tbh. A half decent magika pool is not for a tank at all. Some noob would run along with shield breaker on a bow build and kill you in a few seconds. Not to mention at even half that stamina he'd be lucky to block one hefty soul assault from a 80k healthplar which will fry him.

Being able to block and sustain is paramount to tanking. This is not a tank build. Heavy armor and a shield does not make you a tank. Contrary to half of them arriving via group finder. Those resistances aren't great either. Can easily add 5k to them.

This seems more of a damage build then a tank build

iseko

Might work in cp but far from optimal. Dk's dont have burst. Dk's have layered dmg. You dont need 4.5k spell dmg. It helps for sure but you are sacrificing too many other things. Fully buffed 2.8-3k spell dmg is fine.

Make sure you have plenty of stam. 15k+ is minimum imho. Igneous and battle roar scale with max stat. Higher the stam the higher the return.

Mag regen... I run 1.2k but I have plenty of cost reduction (seducer + 2l). Cant spam skills but it is manageable.

Again, dk's dont need 4k spell dmg. Put on a butload of dots. Inhale -> talons -> flame lash (inhale goes off)-> power lash --> fosslize-> leap-> lash-> power lash. Standard combo and 4-5 dots running in the background that is a lot of dmg. Even with only 3k spell dmg. Focusing on sustain (both stam and mag) in your build will help a lot more.

My 2 cents.

FloppyTouch

I must be playing mdk wrong bc I never had more then 800ish magic recovery on any build XD I solo pvp a lot and never had an issue I must be missing something or just really use to low recovery

pjwb16_ESO

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I must be playing mdk wrong bc I never had more then 800ish magic recovery on any build XD I solo pvp a lot and never had an issue I must be missing something or just really use to low recovery

no you're right, its all about cost reduction, battle roar and constitution passives or proc from sets, and it always was like that

Lexxypwns

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You'll be focusing on trying to proc your both sets and lose focus on the fight infront of you imo, and that equals death.

That's what I mean. No alchemist or spell weave and it's sitting at a measly 2k damage tops. Fighting off ranged attackers will be a death sentence. I could kill that build with my poisonous serpent build in a few seconds once that mediocre stam pool is gone. A few Ccs as soon as I see that root is sticking, crit rush+negate and goodbye. Increase cost poisons...good luck spamming blood.

here we go ignoring that mDK has a reflect again...

DRXHarbinger

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You'll be focusing on trying to proc your both sets and lose focus on the fight infront of you imo, and that equals death.

That's what I mean. No alchemist or spell weave and it's sitting at a measly 2k damage tops. Fighting off ranged attackers will be a death sentence. I could kill that build with my poisonous serpent build in a few seconds once that mediocre stam pool is gone. A few Ccs as soon as I see that root is sticking, crit rush+negate and goodbye. Increase cost poisons...good luck spamming blood.

here we go ignoring that mDK has a reflect again...

Reflect doesn't reflect serpent procs. Wings at over 4k cost cannot outlast a spam bow build whilst trying to heal yourself. Takes longer to regen then wings last for. Double in fact. Again cost increase poison 6.6k cast cost. Assuming you see it coming before hand too.

Lexxypwns

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You'll be focusing on trying to proc your both sets and lose focus on the fight infront of you imo, and that equals death.

That's what I mean. No alchemist or spell weave and it's sitting at a measly 2k damage tops. Fighting off ranged attackers will be a death sentence. I could kill that build with my poisonous serpent build in a few seconds once that mediocre stam pool is gone. A few Ccs as soon as I see that root is sticking, crit rush+negate and goodbye. Increase cost poisons...good luck spamming blood.

here we go ignoring that mDK has a reflect again...

Reflect doesn't reflect serpent procs. Wings at over 4k cost cannot outlast a spam bow build whilst trying to heal yourself. Takes longer to regen then wings last for. Double in fact. Again cost increase poison 6.6k cast cost. Assuming you see it coming before hand too.

That's all fine and good, but you can cherry pick a counter to every build. I've literally run this exact same setup with Bloodspawn instead of skoria and been VERY successful and I'm a 3/10 mDK. In open world, particularly solo, your whole existence as an mDK depends on people not running things that directly counter you. ATM, the moment a build that the damage and tankiness to go toe to toe with the mDK enters a fight your 1vX is on the line, roots and CC spam is useless if he wants to be in your face anyway, the best way to avoid that is more damage, with the caveat that you need to be able to sustain.

pjwb16_ESO

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You'll be focusing on trying to proc your both sets and lose focus on the fight infront of you imo, and that equals death.

That's what I mean. No alchemist or spell weave and it's sitting at a measly 2k damage tops. Fighting off ranged attackers will be a death sentence. I could kill that build with my poisonous serpent build in a few seconds once that mediocre stam pool is gone. A few Ccs as soon as I see that root is sticking, crit rush+negate and goodbye. Increase cost poisons...good luck spamming blood.

here we go ignoring that mDK has a reflect again...

mag dk doesn't have a reflect anymore

EldritchPenguin

psychotic13 wrote: »

You'll be focusing on trying to proc your both sets and lose focus on the fight infront of you imo, and that equals death.

Eh. Not really. It's not like BSW is exactly hard for DK's to proc, since they'll be dealing pretty much 100% fire damage. Just chug a potion at the start of the fight and go melt someone's face off. BSW will sort itself out.

ninjaguyman

Are you running tri food in the picture @jaburns ? Your stamina seems pretty low for all prismatic enchants seeing as how i have around 14.4k stamina(with tri food) on my magicka nb with only 6% stats from undaunted boosting my stam pool.

FloppyTouch

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You'll be focusing on trying to proc your both sets and lose focus on the fight infront of you imo, and that equals death.

That's what I mean. No alchemist or spell weave and it's sitting at a measly 2k damage tops. Fighting off ranged attackers will be a death sentence. I could kill that build with my poisonous serpent build in a few seconds once that mediocre stam pool is gone. A few Ccs as soon as I see that root is sticking, crit rush+negate and goodbye. Increase cost poisons...good luck spamming blood.

here we go ignoring that mDK has a reflect again...

Reflect doesn't reflect serpent procs. Wings at over 4k cost cannot outlast a spam bow build whilst trying to heal yourself. Takes longer to regen then wings last for. Double in fact. Again cost increase poison 6.6k cast cost. Assuming you see it coming before hand too.

That's all fine and good, but you can cherry pick a counter to every build. I've literally run this exact same setup with Bloodspawn instead of skoria and been VERY successful and I'm a 3/10 mDK. In open world, particularly solo, your whole existence as an mDK depends on people not running things that directly counter you. ATM, the moment a build that the damage and tankiness to go toe to toe with the mDK enters a fight your 1vX is on the line, roots and CC spam is useless if he wants to be in your face anyway, the best way to avoid that is more damage, with the caveat that you need to be able to sustain.

I tried this build I solo pvp too and the burst was very nice I have to say bloodspawn helped a lot.

KingYogi415

DK's can ignore recovery because their ulti is so OP.

As long as you get both procs up before laying dots, things should melt.

Cheers!

EldritchPenguin

KingYogi415 wrote: »

DK's can ignore recovery because their ulti is so OP.

Not unless you have a ton of ultimate generation and/or slot really cheap ultimates. Sure, a build that can throw out Leaps like candy will probably be okay relying on Battle Roar for sustain, but if you're running abilities like Eye of Flame, Shooting Star, or Standard of Might, and you don't use Bloodspawn and/or Dragonguard/Shalk, then you're going to have some problems if you don't build in some recovery.