PVP Gets More Ridiculous Each Patch: CAPS NEEDED!

Stamicka

The title basically explains the point of this post. When I first went into PVP I was level 26 and solo, most people were wearing crafted sets, and Vet ranks were still a thing. Things weren't completely balanced but the damage output wasn't extremely high.

Fast forward quite a bit to Thieves Guild, when Proxy Det and Vicious Death could destroy groups with ease. Although proxy det was pretty strong, people were still in medium and light armor, and the overall damage wasn't as high as it is now, however, this patch marked the beginning of the mess that PVP is now.

Then came Dark Brotherhood, the patch where stamina started becoming extremely powerful, and the heavy armor meta was slowly catching on, making it possible to be tanky and have good damage at the same time.

The next patch, Shadows of the Hist, made stamina builds even stronger, and added the ability to stack proc sets (Viper and Velidreth). This patch also introduced powerful sets to CP 160 players (high damage sets like Necropotence etc.) that were attainable from trials. On top of all of this the CP cap was raised. All this combined significantly increased the overall damage in Cyrodil.

The Next patch, and the most ridiculous BY FAR was One Tamriel. Heavy armor Meta hits full swing, new extremely powerful armor sets were added, a lot of new stackable proc monster helms were introduced, CP cap was raised, and weapon ultimates (specifically destro ult) took cyrodil by storm. This patch created tons of problems with balance and increased the overall damage in cyrodil by A LOT. Most of us agree this patch was just bad..

Finally the current state of the game, Homestead. CP cap was increased and mDK got buffs.. not a terrible patch but still didn't fix many problems.!

As you can see each patch PVP gets more and more out of control. Zenimax keeps over nerfing one thing and overbuffing another. I think that the solution to all these problems would be stat caps. There should be a cap on max stam, mag, and health, as well as weapon and spell damage and a stricter resistance cap that all work together. For example you can't have 32k resist and 4K weapon damage at the same time, or you can't have 50k Magicka and 3k spell damage at the same time. I don't know at what numbers the caps should be, however, I really think that they are needed.

Caps would improve more than just the damage problem in PVP, they would also open up new playstyle and build options. For example, once you've hit the damage cap you could use one of the rarely used sets like the one that gives you a permanent movement speed buff or many other underused sets simply cause there's no need for another damage set. Now this doesn't mean that everyone would be doing the same amount of damage. Despite there being a cap on damage stats you could still do more damage than other people through spell pen or through sets like the sun set which don't show up on stat sheets.

I know this is a lengthy post but I really think that caps should be added. Having the potential to have a character with cap resist, and 4K weapon damage is ridiculous... I really hope to see caps in the future.

Zvorgin

I've seen other posts that say we should separate resource pools from damage output and I think I agree. This would naturally lower all damage, however, PvE would have to be completely readjusted for balance.

DocFrost72

Zvorgin wrote: »

I've seen other posts that say we should separate resource pools from damage output and I think I agree. This would naturally lower all damage, however, PvE would have to be completely readjusted for balance.

^^^

Your resource pool should not contribute to damage, but resource management. That, and crit shouldn't be weapon OR spell crit. Just make it Crit Chance by itself. Boom, here come hybrids again.

Lord_MK

lol it's crazy how crazy you build yourself now. You can literally feel like a god compared to other players if you have the right set up

Stamicka

Lord_MK wrote: »

lol it's crazy how crazy you build yourself now. You can literally feel like a god compared to other players if you have the right set up

Lol especially you dude.. I've seen you level zergs. It's nice to see good players in favor of caps though.

zuto40

Ive always worn medium armor and seeing some of these people in cyrodiil tank and level zergs in heavy armor makes me feel like im shooting myself in the foot then trying to beat usain bolt in a race, delete velidreth, selenes, grothdarr, pirate, malubeth, and troll king, limit max magic and stam to 40k, recov to 2k, wpn and spell dmg to 3500, max health to 28k, block % to 50%, remove all forms of block cost reduction in pvp, and would ya look at that cyrodiil is fixed

CatchMeTrolling

Caps also had some of the most broken things as well when this game had them. I do think there should be limits but not by the way of caps.

And also it limits builds not create more, the only difference is hybrids worked better.

JbSmooth

Stamicka wrote: »

The title basically explains the point of this post. When I first went into PVP I was level 26 and solo, most people were wearing crafted sets, and Vet ranks were still a thing. Things weren't completely balanced but the damage output wasn't extremely high.

Fast forward quite a bit to Thieves Guild, when Proxy Det and Vicious Death could destroy groups with ease. Although proxy det was pretty strong, people were still in medium and light armor, and the overall damage wasn't as high as it is now, however, this patch marked the beginning of the mess that PVP is now.

Then came Dark Brotherhood, the patch where stamina started becoming extremely powerful, and the heavy armor meta was slowly catching on, making it possible to be tanky and have good damage at the same time.

The next patch, Shadows of the Hist, made stamina builds even stronger, and added the ability to stack proc sets (Viper and Velidreth). This patch also introduced powerful sets to CP 160 players (high damage sets like Necropotence etc.) that were attainable from trials. On top of all of this the CP cap was raised. All this combined significantly increased the overall damage in Cyrodil.

The Next patch, and the most ridiculous BY FAR was One Tamriel. Heavy armor Meta hits full swing, new extremely powerful armor sets were added, a lot of new stackable proc monster helms were introduced, CP cap was raised, and weapon ultimates (specifically destro ult) took cyrodil by storm. This patch created tons of problems with balance and increased the overall damage in cyrodil by A LOT. Most of us agree this patch was just bad..

Finally the current state of the game, Homestead. CP cap was increased and mDK got buffs.. not a terrible patch but still didn't fix many problems.!

As you can see each patch PVP gets more and more out of control. Zenimax keeps over nerfing one thing and overbuffing another. I think that the solution to all these problems would be stat caps. There should be a cap on max stam, mag, and health, as well as weapon and spell damage and a stricter resistance cap that all work together. For example you can't have 32k resist and 4K weapon damage at the same time, or you can't have 50k Magicka and 3k spell damage at the same time. I don't know at what numbers the caps should be, however, I really think that they are needed.

Caps would improve more than just the damage problem in PVP, they would also open up new playstyle and build options. For example, once you've hit the damage cap you could use one of the rarely used sets like the one that gives you a permanent movement speed buff or many other underused sets simply cause there's no need for another damage set. Now this doesn't mean that everyone would be doing the same amount of damage. Despite there being a cap on damage stats you could still do more damage than other people through spell pen or through sets like the sun set which don't show up on stat sheets.

I know this is a lengthy post but I really think that caps should be added. Having the potential to have a character with cap resist, and 4K weapon damage is ridiculous... I really hope to see caps in the future.

Just have to Say necropotance was around since Craglorn launched and got a nerf when reworked used to give 10% Max magicka and was reduced to a flat value 4k all gold

Knootewoot

DID YOU SAY CAPS?

I am for (soft) caps. You got my vote. I like the game (not love anymore) but I agree every patch it seems PvP gets less fun. Also I don't like proc sets. It's nice in PvE for extra DPS for those 10 gazillion hitpoint bosses, which seem more like a chore fighting against instead of fun, but it's lame for a competitive PvP environment.

Stamicka

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caps also had some of the most broken things as well when this game had them. I do think there should be limits but not by the way of caps.

And also it limits builds not create more, the only difference is hybrids worked better.

I think caps create more viable builds. There would be no point in trying to push over the cap so once you hit it, you can use sets that suit your specific playstyle. Also what types of limits do you want to see that aren't placed by caps...?

FloppyTouch

The caps they had where way to easy to hit I remember my old build was all a little pass the orange soft cap with my max magic and health in the red hard cap they would need to adjust the numbers if they did do this

ToRelax

I've always thought it would be best to use diminishing returns that start with low stats and slowly increase as you invest more into the same stat. The old softcaps had a far too sudden increase that led many players to run very similar stats.

Minalan

Remember caps, when the whole world wore light armor because anything better was useless because diminishing returns?

Yeah no, that was bad.

Stamicka

I'm not saying to bring back the same caps that the game used to have, as those are obviously outdated with all the new changes the game has had. I'm saying we just need caps in general. I'm aware that the game wasn't balanced with the old caps but I want a new updated form of caps...an environment where you can make your character god-like through OP sets and stats is ridiculous.

CatchMeTrolling

Stamicka wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caps also had some of the most broken things as well when this game had them. I do think there should be limits but not by the way of caps.

And also it limits builds not create more, the only difference is hybrids worked better.

I think caps create more viable builds. There would be no point in trying to push over the cap so once you hit it, you can use sets that suit your specific playstyle. Also what types of limits do you want to see that aren't placed by caps...?

I'm not too sure but something like not being able to wear multiple damage sets at once, including proc sets. This way you couldn't stack stats so easily but you'll still have a lot of options.

You shouldn't be able to have 40k plus magicka, 3k spell damage, almost 2k recovery and a *** ton of resistance.

ostrapz

Yeah I can't speak specifically to caps because it's hard to tell without numbers but I could see diminishing returns playing a factor if toned right. There are new stam dks with 40k health 30k stam and 4kwd hitting people with 11k dizzying swings, that shouldn't be possible period

TBois

Sounds like you would enjoy the no cp campaign. This is not me saying "go reset your router," (as in I agree the power creep is an issue), but it might stave off frustration for the time being.

Koolio

Another blanket nerf to all classes. No thank you. I'm already getting weaker every patch with nerfs. This will also make me have to go farm sets all over again. Don't feel like trying to get another sharpened weapon ever again.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caps also had some of the most broken things as well when this game had them. I do think there should be limits but not by the way of caps.

And also it limits builds not create more, the only difference is hybrids worked better.

I think caps create more viable builds. There would be no point in trying to push over the cap so once you hit it, you can use sets that suit your specific playstyle. Also what types of limits do you want to see that aren't placed by caps...?

I'm not too sure but something like not being able to wear multiple damage sets at once, including proc sets. This way you couldn't stack stats so easily but you'll still have a lot of options.

You shouldn't be able to have 40k plus magicka, 3k spell damage, almost 2k recovery and a *** ton of resistance.

Is 3 out of 4 ok?

CatchMeTrolling

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Caps also had some of the most broken things as well when this game had them. I do think there should be limits but not by the way of caps.

And also it limits builds not create more, the only difference is hybrids worked better.

I think caps create more viable builds. There would be no point in trying to push over the cap so once you hit it, you can use sets that suit your specific playstyle. Also what types of limits do you want to see that aren't placed by caps...?

I'm not too sure but something like not being able to wear multiple damage sets at once, including proc sets. This way you couldn't stack stats so easily but you'll still have a lot of options.

You shouldn't be able to have 40k plus magicka, 3k spell damage, almost 2k recovery and a *** ton of resistance.

Is 3 out of 4 ok?

Not really, depends though. I don't think someone should have great sustain, mitigation AND damage which you currently can do with no problem.

At best you should only have 2 out of 4 pertaining to damage, sustain, mitigation and healing.

The problem right now currently is at times I've had all 4.

Edit: couple different setups I've had

rimmidimdim

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

I've seen other posts that say we should separate resource pools from damage output and I think I agree. This would naturally lower all damage, however, PvE would have to be completely readjusted for balance.

^^^

Your resource pool should not contribute to damage, but resource management. That, and crit shouldn't be weapon OR spell crit. Just make it Crit Chance by itself. Boom, here come hybrids again.

This this and this!

Baboonezz

Leave it as is. The CTAs mentioned here will do nothing, you will still have imbalances and metas will just shift. Everyone is on the same playing field post 160cp for gear whether its in this iteration of the game, soft caps iteration or split resource iteration.

Maybe battles will last longer? I can have a 10 min duel with someone as skilled as me (not saying im good, just for comparison) and battlegrounds would completely miss the mark of fast paced action.

My stamplar didn't always have 4k wd and 30k resistances but I still killed and got killed.

BoxFoxx

I'm cool with caps on resistance stats (some players have Godlike resistances after buffs) but having caps on resource stats is a bit excessive.

Also, don't see a point on capping damage stats as damage stats are already naturally balanced rather well.

BoxFoxx

Also caps should only be applied while in Cyrodiil.

Drdeath20

Being in cyrodil gives you 4k health. Your empowered and some other kind of resistance buff. Plus food that looks like it does health and magicka recovery. Add that With your legendary magicka build. What did you ecpect?

Drdeath20

If i sent a pic of my fully buffed build you call it bs too.

28k health
32k magicka-1800 recovery
12k stamina

5k spell damage

17k spell resistance
13k physical resistance

Its just cyrodil makes health look more impressive

Lord_MK

Stamicka wrote: »

Lord_MK wrote: »

lol it's crazy how crazy you build yourself now. You can literally feel like a god compared to other players if you have the right set up

Lol especially you dude.. I've seen you level zergs. It's nice to see good players in favor of caps though.

Yeah I mean the game may work to my advantage a bit but tbh I want eso to be a little les godly again. I'm so tired of people complaining about cheese this and cheese that when they're using heavy reactive with pirate skeleton while they're 18 man deep..

Baboonezz

Lord_MK wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Lord_MK wrote: »

lol it's crazy how crazy you build yourself now. You can literally feel like a god compared to other players if you have the right set up

Lol especially you dude.. I've seen you level zergs. It's nice to see good players in favor of caps though.

Yeah I mean the game may work to my advantage a bit but tbh I want eso to be a little les godly again. I'm so tired of people complaining about cheese this and cheese that when they're using heavy reactive with pirate skeleton while they're 18 man deep..

you could nerf everything and everyone into one class, with one ability, all the same stats and unable to move and people will still complain about cheese, and you know this... man! The cheese complainers are the ones milking the cows.

Emmagoldman

HA needs a slight nerf for sure. I have some ideas at least within cp how that could work.

For proc sets

I've always liked the idea that anything proc related should use a resource. I might even be ok with it still criting......maybe Also, some sets should have big costs, in particular hard hitting proc sets

So for example:
An nb going for proc build with widow, venom, and velidroth could proc all three. However, in one instance would also use stam at the cost of an ability cost, so they would be very low on resources afterward.

What I like about that change is that:
1. Wearing higher dmg sets that require smooth rotations and gameplay would be viable

2. Recognize that proc sets are not skill but do give players the option to glass cannon. Ok, so you do big burst but each proc is equal to a dizzy swing. Resource management becomes a bigger deal for these builds.

3. Some in the middle of the road sets may see some love. ESO has tons of sets that are ok, but just dont make the cut. They might be the middle road. For example, embershield of thunderbug.

Thoughts?

ToRelax

Emmagoldman wrote: »

HA needs a slight nerf for sure. I have some ideas at least within cp how that could work.

For proc sets

I've always liked the idea that anything proc related should use a resource. I might even be ok with it still criting......maybe Also, some sets should have big costs, in particular hard hitting proc sets

So for example:
An nb going for proc build with widow, venom, and velidroth could proc all three. However, in one instance would also use stam at the cost of an ability cost, so they would be very low on resources afterward.

What I like about that change is that:
1. Wearing higher dmg sets that require smooth rotations and gameplay would be viable

2. Recognize that proc sets are not skill but do give players the option to glass cannon. Ok, so you do big burst but each proc is equal to a dizzy swing. Resource management becomes a bigger deal for these builds.

3. Some in the middle of the road sets may see some love. ESO has tons of sets that are ok, but just dont make the cut. They might be the middle road. For example, embershield of thunderbug.

Thoughts?

Well this wouldn't address the imbalance of rng or guaranteed burst based on gear outside skill cooldowns. So I don't quite see the point.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Caps wouldn't be bad but they would have to do it different than how they did in the beginning because that was a train wreck. I've always toyed with the idea of resource pools not counting towards damage and such but it would take enormous rework and a lot of people would be pissed off on the PvE side. Maybe just add caps to PvP?