What kind of balance do you want?

ereboz

I'm pve, I don't PvP at all. But they need to separate the 2 so they're not nerfing pve every time they fix PvP and vice versa. What kind of changes do you think would make it better for pve players and pvpers

Merlin13KAGL

Answers to this question have been thoroughly discussed here.

Ghost-Shot

PvE balance honestly doesn't matter that much because content can be tuned around player power, just need to make sure all the classes are playable. The bulk of balance decisions should be made around PvP anyway. What they absolutely shouldn't do is implement changes that literally nobody wants like the upcoming siphoner passive.

Tyrobag

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

PvE balance honestly doesn't matter that much because content can be tuned around player power, just need to make sure all the classes are playable. The bulk of balance decisions should be made around PvP anyway. What they absolutely shouldn't do is implement changes that literally nobody wants like the upcoming siphoner passive.

Ummm... No. They should NEVER nerf PvE for PvP. PvP will never be properly balanced by player standards because as far as they are concerned if they get killed and feel like they cant win then the game is "unbalanced". PvE on the other hand could be balanced if they would just stop nerfing it for the sake of PvP. I agree with OP, the two should be separated entirely so changes to one don't effect the other.

Shadzilla

stamina would like to have a hope at end game pve competitive trials.

Isellskooma

Nerf magicka, they're the best at everything.

KeiruNicrom

Two CP systems would be nice. One balanced and with passives for pve the other with different passives and balanced for pvp. It would partially seperate pve and pvp allowing for better control on balancing each without ruining the other

Jamini

Vet Content should never be face-rollingly easy.
Power creep should be slapped down at every opportunity.
To deal damage, you should need to pay for it in durability or sustain.
Skill, not raw numbers, should be the deciding factor in what you can complete.
If stack and burn is all you need to do to win a fight, it's too easy.
If something is grossly over-performing (I'm looking at you, Sharpened) it should get cut down to parity with other options.

Publius_Scipio

Malamar1229

i am going to answer this again using the hardened ward example (bc thats how far back this discussion went):

Hardened Ward text "Creates a shield around user for 20 seconds. This duration is reduced to 6 seconds in PvP environments"

Malamar1229

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

PvE balance honestly doesn't matter that much because content can be tuned around player power, just need to make sure all the classes are playable. The bulk of balance decisions should be made around PvP anyway. What they absolutely shouldn't do is implement changes that literally nobody wants like the upcoming siphoner passive.

I am 99% a PVP player and I dont even agree with this. This game only sports a minimal pvp player base. The vast majority players only PvE.
It would make stupid business sense to balance around PvP

alexkdd99

I want the kind of balance where my main/ favorite character reigns above all the others. Sorcs!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Balance is an illusion. The only way to achieve true balance would be to eliminate classes. Nobody wants that, and certain classes will always be better suited for certain things.

People that complain about balance because their class cant do everything at the same time should hold their breath until it is fixed.

Actually, the game is rather balanced currently IMO, far more than it has been in the past. I have one of every class, and I believe they all have their uses to some degree. Are their some specific class combos that could use some love? Sure, but they all have their purposes.

From a PVE perspective, if there is a glaring balance problem, it is stamina in end game trials. The trick obviously would be to give them more survival tools without making them gods in Cyrodiil. This certainly could, as OP suggested, point to the obvious solution of balancing them separately, but that would mean a complete redesigning of our base system. I have my concerns about how capable ZOS is of doing that.

FlyLionel

ereboz wrote: »

I'm pve, I don't PvP at all. But they need to separate the 2 so they're not nerfing pve every time they fix PvP and vice versa. What kind of changes do you think would make it better for pve players and pvpers

If they could separate the PVE/PVP that would help. When you boot into Cyrodiil you'll have your cloak/igneous etc just they would be more pvp oriented (animations would look the same just the affect** different). I'd leave the design to Zos because they are the experts of their own content; but if they had more breathing room instead of useless morphs/skills/'over powered' abilities etc than things should be more balanced...theoretically =P

STEVIL

My view of a good direction for balance is:

"Everything is really good or best somewhere and nothing is really good or best everywhere."

IMO as long as the vast majority of the build focus and traits and so on remain tied almost exclusively to the PC numbers, this wont be achieved.

IMO a significant amount of the elements to choose between need to start being focused on and divided by the targets or the content.

you see this slightly happening with how staves now work.

For cases where single target is key - inferno and its 8% single target is better.
For cases where AoE is key - lightning staff with its AOE 8% is better.

The dps traits are all just ways to adjust your own damage upward by altering one of the three factors of damage - crit chance, penetration and base damage. They are three recievers trying to catch the same ball. 955 of the time, only one will catch that ball.

if instead these were setup as bonuses to damage that applied only in certain circumstances, you would then have one good for some content, others good for others and if done even remotely well that would mean nothing is king everywhere.

Same for armors traits - one trait could improve defense or reduce damage vs magic fire frost shock, another against the physical ones etc... one against DoT, one against AoE, etc etc etc.

Choose the right gear for the right opposition and you are good but choose wrong and... not so much.

zaria

Malamar1229 wrote: »

i am going to answer this again using the hardened ward example (bc thats how far back this discussion went):

Hardened Ward text "Creates a shield around user for 20 seconds. This duration is reduced to 6 seconds in PvP environments"

Probably the best option, let them balance abilities independent.
Also it reduce pve / pvp morph settings you can let the other morph behave different.

AhPook_Is_Here

Sorc____________________________________________________Other Classes
___________O___________________________________________________________________________

Malamar1229

zaria wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

i am going to answer this again using the hardened ward example (bc thats how far back this discussion went):

Hardened Ward text "Creates a shield around user for 20 seconds. This duration is reduced to 6 seconds in PvP environments"

Probably the best option, let them balance abilities independent.
Also it reduce pve / pvp morph settings you can let the other morph behave different.

probably take a bit more time but at least it allows for a change in one area without disrupting the other

Zinaroth

I don't want my character to behave differently in PvP than it is in PvE. I would rather compromise balance and have consistency. This is an MMORPG and I play both PvP and PvE. I like how they are connected and would hate if ZOS chose to somehow disconnect them in any manner like Blizzard did with WoW. I am of the opinion that if you want super balanced PvP where you don't have to put effort into your character to be compeatable; the PvP in an MMORPG is not what you're looking for. I am all for improving balance but not at the cost you guys are advocating. This is coming from a stamian templar main since launch mind you; so I know what it feels like to be the bottom feeder.

Solariken

Two points you should consider:

1. PvE "balance" is generally not something that matters except in extreme cases where certain classes are entirely excluded from groups due to being completely unviable. PvP balance should be a primary concern because it is the only test of relative power between classes, skills, sets, etc. It's much easier and efficient to balance gameplay around PvP and then design PvE encounters around the players.

2. The majority of nerfs that PvE players blame on PvP were generally made for PvE gameplay reasons as well (perma-block, Radiant Destruction, Hurricane, shield duration, etc).