Heavy Armor

saybot2011eb17_ESO

Sorry for the bad English, I use an interpreter. I propose to dispose of heavy armor in its present form. She, heavy armor, loses a clean balance in the game. What a shame I watch when 10 players can not kill one. What's this? For a normal balanas in the game, you need to increase the cost of skills when you use heavy armor, as well as speed of running. The situation is such that in Teso decides not the number of people in the group, but the armor class. It is necessary to clearly distinguish between DD, Tanks and healers. If you're DD then you have high damage but little armor, if you are a tank, then you have a lot of armor but no damage and movement speed, etc. Charge in a heavy armor, it's generally absurd. That's basically my understanding of the balance.

idk

There is nothing wrong with a heavy armor build that has great survivability. It's when the high survival build can also do decent damage there is an issue.

saybot2011eb17_ESO

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with a heavy armor build that has great survivability. It's when the high survival build can also do decent damage there is an issue.

The language barrier does not allow to fully describe the essence of the issue.
But with heavy armor, you need to do something. In Cyrodiil, DD can run only when accompanied by a "zerg". Even in the raid, the one who is not wearing heavy armor is a potential suicide bomber.

Berenhir

saybot2011eb17_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with a heavy armor build that has great survivability. It's when the high survival build can also do decent damage there is an issue.

The language barrier does not allow to fully describe the essence of the issue.
But with heavy armor, you need to do something. In Cyrodiil, DD can run only when accompanied by a "zerg". Even in the raid, the one who is not wearing heavy armor is a potential suicide bomber.

Why do you create a thread on a forum in a language you cannot speak to discuss a matter you are therefore not able to explain with people whose replies you won't understand anyway?

cjthibs

In history nearly every soldier that could afford heavier armors did so...because it provided the most protection.

If anything there are far too many people running around in dresses. Always has been.

The issue here really is that people want to be super-efficient killers -and- be highly survivable. Which, outside of a few tricks, really isn't possible and due to the high damage and super-low time-to-kill that's been prevalent for quite a while a lot more people are gravitating towards higher survivability builds...which make it more difficult for the uber-top-dps folks to land their fantastical one-shot combos. I guess this makes them mad?

Either way, heavy armor is not unbalanced. It's just inconvenient for those who want instant gratification.

saybot2011eb17_ESO

Berenhir wrote: »

saybot2011eb17_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with a heavy armor build that has great survivability. It's when the high survival build can also do decent damage there is an issue.

The language barrier does not allow to fully describe the essence of the issue.
But with heavy armor, you need to do something. In Cyrodiil, DD can run only when accompanied by a "zerg". Even in the raid, the one who is not wearing heavy armor is a potential suicide bomber.

Why do you create a thread on a forum in a language you cannot speak to discuss a matter you are therefore not able to explain with people whose replies you won't understand anyway?

The basic information is stated in one post. If you are not interested in this topic, then pass by.

Danksta

Seems like a L2Zerg issue.

Aedaryl

cjthibs wrote: »

In history nearly every soldier that could afford heavier armors did so...because it provided the most protection.

If anything there are far too many people running around in dresses. Always has been.

The issue here really is that people want to be super-efficient killers -and- be highly survivable. Which, outside of a few tricks, really isn't possible and due to the high damage and super-low time-to-kill that's been prevalent for quite a while a lot more people are gravitating towards higher survivability builds...which make it more difficult for the uber-top-dps folks to land their fantastical one-shot combos. I guess this makes them mad?

Either way, heavy armor is not unbalanced. It's just inconvenient for those who want instant gratification.

There is two ways to not see heavy armor is not overpowered.

-First : Being Stupid or a noob in mechanics of eso.

- Second : Wearing heavy armor, see it's god mode and say it's balanced cuz you are afraid to be nerf.

Heavy armor is broken because you have better regen, better damage and better survivability than any other armors.

Madamova

saybot2011eb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry for the bad English, I use an interpreter. I propose to dispose of heavy armor in its present form. She, heavy armor, loses a clean balance in the game. What a shame I watch when 10 players can not kill one. What's this? For a normal balanas in the game, you need to increase the cost of skills when you use heavy armor, as well as speed of running. The situation is such that in Teso decides not the number of people in the group, but the armor class. It is necessary to clearly distinguish between DD, Tanks and healers. If you're DD then you have high damage but little armor, if you are a tank, then you have a lot of armor but no damage and movement speed, etc. Charge in a heavy armor, it's generally absurd. That's basically my understanding of the balance.

I definitely agree with the point that armor type should affect character's speed. So many posts were created on this topic before, but unfortunately still no change. It's only logical that the Heavy armor wearer should be moving much slower then the Light armor wearer, and yeah, Charge ability doesn't make sense when wearing Heavy.

saybot2011eb17_ESO

cjthibs wrote: »

In history nearly every soldier that could afford heavier armors did so...because it provided the most protection.

If anything there are far too many people running around in dresses. Always has been.

The issue here really is that people want to be super-efficient killers -and- be highly survivable. Which, outside of a few tricks, really isn't possible and due to the high damage and super-low time-to-kill that's been prevalent for quite a while a lot more people are gravitating towards higher survivability builds...which make it more difficult for the uber-top-dps folks to land their fantastical one-shot combos. I guess this makes them mad?

Either way, heavy armor is not unbalanced. It's just inconvenient for those who want instant gratification.

This is the essence. Those who wear heavy armor, calmly inflict 3-5K damage, and one by one they kill those who disperse the DPS. And now the question. If the light and medium armor is cotton wool, then why is it needed at all, except in PVE? It turns out the game is divided into those "who are in the subject and those who are not." The player dispels the DPS, and in Cyrodiil feels that he is meat. Usual pumping tank easily sweeps DD. It turns out that the function of "pure DD" in Cyrodiil is simply unnecessary.

The_Smilemeister

Very poor post. No logic here whatsoever.

First of all, if you don't understand a language then there's no use in writing a post in that language only for you not to understand the replies you will receive.

As for your opinion regarding heavy armour and numerous players not being able to kill a heavy armour user... well that's pretty much the point of heavy armour. Heavy armour is made for tanking and survivability, medium armour is made for damage dealing and stealth, and that no good *fluffy flutter* light armour is for those who don't know better.

(*Anyone get the Oblivion reference?*)

Fun fact, cost reduction, regeneration, damage increase and critical, speed increase etc. are offered to medium/light armour users. Heavy armour does get a damage boost and regeneration, but only in combat. Damage increase per hit taken, but only temporarily. Besides that, heavy armour users have to spend more resources, have to run slower and deal less damage.

You have no real point to your argument and the language barrier you blindedly walked into just obliterates the few reasons to take you seriously.

[Edit: My post was sent half completed. This is the third time I had to edit it since it kept deleting half my post for some reason.]

technohic

I don't feel like this is a problem in non-CP campaigns.

cjthibs

Aedaryl wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

In history nearly every soldier that could afford heavier armors did so...because it provided the most protection.

If anything there are far too many people running around in dresses. Always has been.

The issue here really is that people want to be super-efficient killers -and- be highly survivable. Which, outside of a few tricks, really isn't possible and due to the high damage and super-low time-to-kill that's been prevalent for quite a while a lot more people are gravitating towards higher survivability builds...which make it more difficult for the uber-top-dps folks to land their fantastical one-shot combos. I guess this makes them mad?

Either way, heavy armor is not unbalanced. It's just inconvenient for those who want instant gratification.

There is two ways to not see heavy armor is not overpowered.

-First : Being Stupid or a noob in mechanics of eso.

- Second : Wearing heavy armor, see it's god mode and say it's balanced cuz you are afraid to be nerf.

Heavy armor is broken because you have better regen, better damage and better survivability than any other armors.

You just lost the argument by calling it god-mode and saying it has better regen and damage.

Heavy armor has resource issues, and the use of high penetration builds renders it fairly useless since it can negate 50% of all of its resistances, bringing it to about the same level as medium armor.

Heavy armor does not have better regen than the others. To say so is just wrong.
Constitution gives a small amount back on taking damage, between 900-1700. You can easily get 2k+ regen and crazy damage + penetration with the other types. (Getting more than 1k is only accomplished by using one specific set.)

Let not forget that you sacrifice a ton of critical chance and damage that a medium-wearer gets passively.

I do run heavy armor in PvP and I get my face melted just as much as others...and no...I don't do tons of damage or have unlimited regen.

The highest weapon damage I've ever been able to get with heavy armor on is about 3500. What's the highest that medium-wearers can get? I believe it's about 7500 or so now?

Edziu

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Very poor post. No logic here whatsoever.

First of all, if you don't understand a language then there's no use in writing a post in that language only for you not to understand the replies you will receive.

As for your opinion regarding heavy armour and numerous players not being able to kill a heavy armour user... well that's pretty much the point of heavy armour. Heavy armour is made for tanking and survivability, medium armour is made for damage dealing and stealth, and that no good *fluffy flutter* light armour is for those who don't know better.

but most people would agree heavy armor have an problem, yes its for tank while medium and light is for dps but in pvp its broken, tank, in heavy armor will dont have problem to rekt medium or lightt armor weared damage dealer while those damage damage dealers will have problem to just hurt this tank in heavy, this problem we have on pvp
heavy armor > medium/light armor in every way, survivability, sustain and still dealing enough damage to kill almost anyone

saybot2011eb17_ESO

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Very poor post. No logic here whatsoever.

First of all, if you don't understand a language then there's no use in writing a post in that language only for you not to understand the replies you will receive.

As for your opinion regarding heavy armour and numerous players not being able to kill a heavy armour user... well that's pretty much the point of heavy armour. Heavy armour is made for tanking and survivability, medium armour is made for damage dealing and stealth, and that no good *fluffy flutter* light armour is for those who don't know better.

Tell me, where can I find Russian support in TESO?

GreenhaloX

Oh yes, of course, HA gets a bit better survivability than medium or light armors, because it gets more resistance as well as the increased health passive. I'm able to solo world bosses and dungeons a bit better with my HA build (as a stam) than the medium-based one. I don't know or see if wearing HA is costing more in a way, though. I'm just seeing that employing certain skills are actually the cost-based factor. However, if you plus up or max out your Warlord in the CP tree, that will help out a lot. So, I don't think anything needs to be taken away, if that is what you are eluding to, from HA to balance out for other armor builds. HA is not all that. What I'm seeing better is sorc with the damage shield. Wearing 7-piece HA or 6-HA and 1-medium, I still get a big chunk off my hp (even with my igneous shield up and having 17k and up resistance) when fighting those bosses; particularly in vet contents. However, from what I am seeing from those how-to or check me out youtube clips (also from watching duels) of a sorc in action, it is clearly that their damage shield are offering very high protection; which is seemingly better than a HA build, solely, for protection/survivability.

Aedaryl

cjthibs wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

In history nearly every soldier that could afford heavier armors did so...because it provided the most protection.

If anything there are far too many people running around in dresses. Always has been.

The issue here really is that people want to be super-efficient killers -and- be highly survivable. Which, outside of a few tricks, really isn't possible and due to the high damage and super-low time-to-kill that's been prevalent for quite a while a lot more people are gravitating towards higher survivability builds...which make it more difficult for the uber-top-dps folks to land their fantastical one-shot combos. I guess this makes them mad?

Either way, heavy armor is not unbalanced. It's just inconvenient for those who want instant gratification.

There is two ways to not see heavy armor is not overpowered.

-First : Being Stupid or a noob in mechanics of eso.

- Second : Wearing heavy armor, see it's god mode and say it's balanced cuz you are afraid to be nerf.

Heavy armor is broken because you have better regen, better damage and better survivability than any other armors.

You just lost the argument by calling it god-mode and saying it has better regen and damage.

Heavy armor has resource issues, and the use of high penetration builds renders it fairly useless since it can negate 50% of all of its resistances, bringing it to about the same level as medium armor.

Heavy armor does not have better regen than the others. To say so is just wrong.
Constitution gives a small amount back on taking damage, between 900-1700. You can easily get 2k+ regen and crazy damage + penetration with the other types. (Getting more than 1k is only accomplished by using one specific set.)

Let not forget that you sacrifice a ton of critical chance and damage that a medium-wearer gets passively.

I do run heavy armor in PvP and I get my face melted just as much as others...and no...I don't do tons of damage or have unlimited regen.

The highest weapon damage I've ever been able to get with heavy armor on is about 3500. What's the highest that medium-wearers can get? I believe it's about 7500 or so now?

Ok, so you don't know mechanics at all.

If you play well your heavy armor build, you shoudln't have sustain issue, because heavy armor HAVE better SUSTAIN with consitution and heavy attack ressource back. There is proofs of that.

You can go full damage on heavy armor, because you don't even need sustain set, drink buff or regen mundus stone.

If you want 2k + regen on medium or light armor, you need regen mundus stone + drink buff or regen set.

If you run medium or light, you will have less damage than the heavy user, because he can go full damage set + thief mundus stone (here is your critical chance back) when the light/medium user need regen set and regen mundus stone.

The penetration is hopefully big, but when you armor is descrease by 40%, the medium/ light armor guys have about 0 left.

Heavy armor is also better for survivability by the health bonus and heal bonus it bring.

mesmerizedish

Madamova wrote: »

saybot2011eb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry for the bad English, I use an interpreter. I propose to dispose of heavy armor in its present form. She, heavy armor, loses a clean balance in the game. What a shame I watch when 10 players can not kill one. What's this? For a normal balanas in the game, you need to increase the cost of skills when you use heavy armor, as well as speed of running. The situation is such that in Teso decides not the number of people in the group, but the armor class. It is necessary to clearly distinguish between DD, Tanks and healers. If you're DD then you have high damage but little armor, if you are a tank, then you have a lot of armor but no damage and movement speed, etc. Charge in a heavy armor, it's generally absurd. That's basically my understanding of the balance.

I definitely agree with the point that armor type should affect character's speed. So many posts were created on this topic before, but unfortunately still no change. It's only logical that the Heavy armor wearer should be moving much slower then the Light armor wearer, and yeah, Charge ability doesn't make sense when wearing Heavy.

In the real world, heavy armor doesn't significantly impact a wearer's running speed. It only limits how long they can run for. This drawback is modeled by the game in the form of lower stamina regen compared to medium armor.

If heavy armor slowed people down, literally no one would wear it, because in Cyrodiil it's very important to be able to keep up with your group. It would be an entirely unnecessary and unduly prejudicial change that would provide absolutely no benefit.

The_Smilemeister

Just edited my first post since it was incomplete. Half of it kept getting deleted for some reason.

saybot2011eb17_ESO wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Very poor post. No logic here whatsoever.

First of all, if you don't understand a language then there's no use in writing a post in that language only for you not to understand the replies you will receive.

As for your opinion regarding heavy armour and numerous players not being able to kill a heavy armour user... well that's pretty much the point of heavy armour. Heavy armour is made for tanking and survivability, medium armour is made for damage dealing and stealth, and that no good *fluffy flutter* light armour is for those who don't know better.

Tell me, where can I find Russian support in TESO?

Dude, if you go on a forum and you don't understand the language, that's not my problem. I don't go on Russian language defaulted forums for that very reason.

If you want to see support for Russian forum members be added then contact Zenimax about it. Otherwise, not much you can do besides learn the default language of the forum or write in your native language and hopefully get a reply from someone who speaks Russian.

If you aren't going to learn the whole language then at least try to understand what you want to write before you go ahead and post it.

Chrlynsch

Spam roots and flank, watch most heavy armor characters panic and die.

maxjapank

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Just edited my first post since it was incomplete. Half of it kept getting deleted for some reason.

saybot2011eb17_ESO wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Very poor post. No logic here whatsoever.

First of all, if you don't understand a language then there's no use in writing a post in that language only for you not to understand the replies you will receive.

As for your opinion regarding heavy armour and numerous players not being able to kill a heavy armour user... well that's pretty much the point of heavy armour. Heavy armour is made for tanking and survivability, medium armour is made for damage dealing and stealth, and that no good *fluffy flutter* light armour is for those who don't know better.

Tell me, where can I find Russian support in TESO?

Dude, if you go on a forum and you don't understand the language, that's not my problem. I don't go on Russian language defaulted forums for that very reason.

If you want to see support for Russian forum members be added then contact Zenimax about it. Otherwise, not much you can do besides learn the default language of the forum or write in your native language and hopefully get a reply from someone who speaks Russian.

If you aren't going to learn the whole language then at least try to understand what you want to write before you go ahead and post it.

First off, he did a fairly decent job explaining himself despite the language barrier. Secondly, you are more than welcome, in fact very welcome to bugger off. You don't have to respond here either, you know?

saybot2011eb17_ESO

By the way, it's a good idea to unite in one constellation "Hardy, elemental defender, elfborn, elemental expert, mightly and pricise strikes". In this situation, the player will have to choose what to sacrifice.

AnviOfVai

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with a heavy armor build that has great survivability. It's when the high survival build can also do decent damage there is an issue.

(I really like explaining heavy armor in so many forum posts)

Heavy armor is for people to be able to withstand damage. Allow me to elaborate:

Tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. Since this role often requires them to suffer large amounts of damage, they rely on large amounts of vitality or armor,(heavy armor) healing by other party members, evasiveness and misdirection, or self regeneration.

This ^^ is a tanks job. As Giles said above, the problem occurs when tanks can do the same amount of damage as damage dealers (nightblades/sorc's) and can also tank.

Nothing is wrong with Heavy armor, if they ended up nurfing that tanks just as well be kicked out of the game, because Templars can do that job now.

emanuele175b16_ESO

[snip]

I perfectly understand the OP Point.
And, anyway, OP and his point of view must be respected.

[Edit for baiting]

cjthibs

Aedaryl wrote: »

The penetration is hopefully big, but when you armor is descrease by 40%, the medium/ light armor guys have about 0 left.

You want to school me on mechanics and you say this...

60% of any number is almost certainly not 0. Especially when we're talking about numbers in the thousands.
If we really want to get nitpicky here, removing 40-50% of HA's resistances is a much larger issue than removing 40-50% of medium armor's.
Medium armor isn't supposed to provide high resists. And since the numbers are lower, the percentage-based deduction is a lot less impactful.

And the regen thing...ehh...I don't know what else to say.
Yes, constitution provides some return on resources, but it is not the same as having actual regeneration. I don't have an issue maintaining my resources in heavy, it takes effort, but I have FAR more available resources when I'm using medium armor.

What does your weapon/spell damage sit at? Just curious.

The_Smilemeister

I'll give OP this. At least he hasn't suggested nerfing heavy armour unlike plenty of other nerf posts who cry out for this and that to be nerfed (buffing up other skills/armour to make them equal makes more sense but apparently that's too difficult for some people to understand).

As soon as I read the part involving him talking about players not being able to kill a guy wearing heavy armour, I knew this guys was going off rails slightly.

I get what he's saying that heavy armour shouldn't be doing as much damage or be as fast as dedicated DPSs, although for the most part that's already the case as many people before have explained. However he did contradict himself when he first complained about a heavy armour user being able to survive attacks a form numerous players and then go on to say/ that heavy armour should be able to take lots of damage. Maybe it's the language barrier that caused that.

The real problem I have with this post is the fact that he hasn't gone into any detail regarding the perks offered by the types of armour. That's why I mentioned the "no point to the post". Not because of the language barrier (although it certainly hasn't made things easier for anyone, and no that is not racist to criticise him for that), but because you've not taken into account what each armour offers to builds.

The_Smilemeister

maxjapank wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Just edited my first post since it was incomplete. Half of it kept getting deleted for some reason.

saybot2011eb17_ESO wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Very poor post. No logic here whatsoever.

First of all, if you don't understand a language then there's no use in writing a post in that language only for you not to understand the replies you will receive.

As for your opinion regarding heavy armour and numerous players not being able to kill a heavy armour user... well that's pretty much the point of heavy armour. Heavy armour is made for tanking and survivability, medium armour is made for damage dealing and stealth, and that no good *fluffy flutter* light armour is for those who don't know better.

Tell me, where can I find Russian support in TESO?

Dude, if you go on a forum and you don't understand the language, that's not my problem. I don't go on Russian language defaulted forums for that very reason.

If you want to see support for Russian forum members be added then contact Zenimax about it. Otherwise, not much you can do besides learn the default language of the forum or write in your native language and hopefully get a reply from someone who speaks Russian.

If you aren't going to learn the whole language then at least try to understand what you want to write before you go ahead and post it.

First off, he did a fairly decent job explaining himself despite the language barrier. Secondly, you are more than welcome, in fact very welcome to bugger off. You don't have to respond here either, you know?

Well this is an open forum which allows everyone to have their say, regardless of whether it's popular or unpopular. I don't have a problem with some of my posts being disliked by some since that's inevitable for someone to have a problem with somebody regardless of reason.

I do however find your "bugger off" comment to be a cause for concern. Not because you evidently dislike my post, but the fact that you're suggesting I shouldn't voice it. If you have a problem with someone, fine, can't do much to change that. Telling them to basically shut up though because you have a problem with what they say is something else. Advocates for freedom of speech will know that as censorship.

If you don't like what people have to say and you have nothing valuable to say critiquing it, maybe you're the one who should and I quote "bugger off".

AnviOfVai

O__o

The_Smilemeister

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

O__o

I could do with one of those actually. Maybe some Colovian Ginger Beer. Care to join? Lol

I'll give you an awesome for the bottle of beer alone.

idk

Berenhir wrote: »

saybot2011eb17_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with a heavy armor build that has great survivability. It's when the high survival build can also do decent damage there is an issue.

The language barrier does not allow to fully describe the essence of the issue.
But with heavy armor, you need to do something. In Cyrodiil, DD can run only when accompanied by a "zerg". Even in the raid, the one who is not wearing heavy armor is a potential suicide bomber.

Why do you create a thread on a forum in a language you cannot speak to discuss a matter you are therefore not able to explain with people whose replies you won't understand anyway?

He's trying. Unfortunately google translate isn't perfect.

AnviOfVai

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

O__o

I could do with one of those actually. Maybe some Colovian Ginger Beer. Care to join? Lol

I'll give you an awesome for the bottle of beer alone.