Training dummy DPS reports conflict with scrolling DPS numbers?

Wolfenbelle

When I test DPS on my standard training dummy (not the robust one), I get reports with decimal numbers. The scrolling numbers on the screen do not have decimals, and they are produced by my having having Outgoing Damage and Outgoing Damage Over Time turned on in my settings/interface. Example:

With bow I just got 4650.9, 46s, total DPS yet the scrolling numbers showed several hits over 11,000 from Lethal Arrow IV in addition to 5k plus hits from light attacks and Poison Injection IV.
With DW I just got 5250.5, 1, 1s, total DPS yet the scrolling numbers showed multiple hits over 4k and 5k totaling well over a mere 5250k.

Routinely in these forums, people say they get 30k, 40k and 50k DPS, so is the training dummy wrong, or are the scrolling numbers wrong, or am I supposed to ignore the decimal?

Hopefully I've explained this OK. Will be at work and won't be able to respond to questions until after 7:00pm Eastern time today. PC NA, Imperial Templar, v16/160, CP 589.

Turelus

DPS is total damage divided by time spent, If you have uneven numbers you'll end up with decimal points.

Also I would guess that the values shown on damage numbers are rounded as to not cause confusion (who needs to know about the 0.5 or 0.3? when we're talking tens of thousands?) whilst DPS results are a pure result of it.

Mic1007

DPS is simply a calculation of the total damage you did (the health of the dummy) over the time it took for you to kill the dummy. The damage of each skill does not equal DPS.

People get 30k DPS by using DoTs (Damage over Time skills), weaving (which squeezes in a light attack behind a skill to maximizes the damage doable in 1 second), buffs, etc.

Ozstryker

If understand you correctly, it could be that you are not killing the dummy, if u just disengage it takes a few seconds to register that combat has ended... Resulting in an overall dps loss!

Drasn

DPS stands for damage per second... not damage per swing.

Ep1kMalware

Drasn wrote: »

DPS stands for damage per second... not damage per swing.

Careful mate, you probably blew his mind.

Grabmoore

As others said you should test your damage over time by killing the dummy. It shouldn't take longer than 1,5 to 2 mins.

KingYogi415

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

Ep1kMalware

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

While you're sniping start backing away. The bow passive increases damage over distance, then crit rush and start wrecking blow weaving. If you're super good your rotation will be snipe/crit rush/wreckingblow. You'll easilly hit 55k.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Bassically what the people above said but ill throw some numbers in to help. But to try to add a little above the snark.

Dps is damage per second. Or the average damage you do per second while trying to kill something. So even if you have bigger hits you dps can be lower then those hits.

For example, say it took you 10 seconds to kill a mob with 100,000 health. That is 10,000 dps. 100,000 (total damage)divided by 10 (time in seconds).

As far a a dps number goes it doesnt matter how big some single hits are it is all a function of total damage done and of time. How long it takes. If you were fighting something with 200,000k health and had have a few hits for 20,000 but it takes you 20 seconds to kill something, that is 10, 000 dps (200,00/20).If you had more 10,000 hits and no 20,000 hits yet it only took you 10 seconds to kill the same something that is 20, 000 dps (200,00/10). It is total damage done in a time period divided by the seconds in that time period.

That is where theory crafting comes in. Perhaps you have heard of this. It is usually done by higher end players who spend their time crunching numbers and trying builds to find the best way to effectively do damage over time. Because it isnt always about just pressing the button that makes the biggest number show up.

The easiest way to cripple you dps is to die. Or run out of resources. Since those will effectively pull your dps to 0 until you can recover.

Edits for messed up maths! Hope i got itnright this time!

zaria

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

While you're sniping start backing away. The bow passive increases damage over distance, then crit rush and start wrecking blow weaving. If you're super good your rotation will be snipe/crit rush/wreckingblow. You'll easilly hit 55k.

Careful, he might join an random dungeon with you

Oompuh

"Am I suppose to ignore the decimal?" No.. No... you got 5k DPS. You did 5000 damage on average per second. The training dummy is very accurate, you just need a better rotation.

Ep1kMalware

zaria wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

While you're sniping start backing away. The bow passive increases damage over distance, then crit rush and start wrecking blow weaving. If you're super good your rotation will be snipe/crit rush/wreckingblow. You'll easilly hit 55k.

Careful, he might join an random dungeon with you

hahaha xD I don't even mind!

JinMori

Dps is the total damage divided by how much time it took you to deal that damage, so let's say that you did 200 k damage in 20 seconds, that's 10000 dps.

Duckbutta

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

While you're sniping start backing away. The bow passive increases damage over distance, then crit rush and start wrecking blow weaving. If you're super good your rotation will be snipe/crit rush/wreckingblow. You'll easilly hit 55k.

OP, for the love of Akatosh please do not listen to these people, there is a 0% chance you will hit anything close to sustaining 55k dps self-buffed on a testing dummy using a WB/Snipe build. There are many good dps builds available online that have been tested and will give you what you are looking fo.

Artis

Duckbutta wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

While you're sniping start backing away. The bow passive increases damage over distance, then crit rush and start wrecking blow weaving. If you're super good your rotation will be snipe/crit rush/wreckingblow. You'll easilly hit 55k.

OP, for the love of Akatosh please do not listen to these people, there is a 0% chance you will hit anything close to sustaining 55k dps self-buffed on a testing dummy using a WB/Snipe build. There are many good dps builds available online that have been tested and will give you what you are looking fo.

Yes OP, be careful. Snipe's range is longer than the range of crit rush, so if you back away to far, you won't be able to charge and will have to run closer, which is a dps loss.

I'm not sure what to recommend as I haven't played stamina much, you can either spam light attack and poison injection while you're running, or only back away to stay in range of crit rush. Maybe more experienced players can help you choose.

NewBlacksmurf

You're confusing a Scrolling Combat text damage amount (not DPS) with actual DPS which is a caluculation of all damage over a total period of time broken down by a calculation in per second intervals from your overal damage done.

Ep1kMalware

Artis wrote: »

Duckbutta wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

While you're sniping start backing away. The bow passive increases damage over distance, then crit rush and start wrecking blow weaving. If you're super good your rotation will be snipe/crit rush/wreckingblow. You'll easilly hit 55k.

OP, for the love of Akatosh please do not listen to these people, there is a 0% chance you will hit anything close to sustaining 55k dps self-buffed on a testing dummy using a WB/Snipe build. There are many good dps builds available online that have been tested and will give you what you are looking fo.

Yes OP, be careful. Snipe's range is longer than the range of crit rush, so if you back away to far, you won't be able to charge and will have to run closer, which is a dps loss.

I'm not sure what to recommend as I haven't played stamina much, you can either spam light attack and poison injection while you're running, or only back away to stay in range of crit rush. Maybe more experienced players can help you choose.

Spam light attacks, poison injection is a dps loss. If you look at the passives for the bow skill line you'll see thst light attacks increase bow damage several times.

Qyrk

Duckbutta wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Yah, ignore the decimal.

Yur pulling 50k+ for sure. Make sure to weave some wrecking blows in-between the snipes for max DPS.

Cheers!

While you're sniping start backing away. The bow passive increases damage over distance, then crit rush and start wrecking blow weaving. If you're super good your rotation will be snipe/crit rush/wreckingblow. You'll easilly hit 55k.

OP, for the love of Akatosh please do not listen to these people, there is a 0% chance you will hit anything close to sustaining 55k dps self-buffed on a testing dummy using a WB/Snipe build. There are many good dps builds available online that have been tested and will give you what you are looking fo.

Duck, I'm a bit baffled by the seriousness and unawareness of tongue-and-cheek comments by others on your post........

clocksstoppe

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

I just got 4650.9, 46s, total DPS

am I supposed to ignore the decimal?

CP 589.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

Dantaria

Oh, come on, people. We all pretty much know that the game itself doesn't explain anything. 600cp can be got simply by questing, so OP can honestly have no idea what's going on. Laughing at someone who genuinely doesn't know but wish to learn is not nice

OP, you absolutely should not ignore the decimal. DPS stands for Damage Per Second, as it was already told. So your DPS is 4.65k and 5.25k respectively. Which are very small numbers for your CP level, yes. People pull actual 40k-50k.

The general idea is "stacking" damage. Optimal, effective build do not run Bow and DW separately. People use Bow on first bar and Dual Wield on second. Which allows them to combine skills.

Now, if you use Poison Injection, it will continue to damage the target for 10 sec. If you then add Twin Slashes, you will get another DoT (Damage Over Time) effect. This is "stacking" damage. Using several DoTs (Poison Injection + Endless Hail + Twin Slashes + Deadly Cloak...) will already end up in more DPS than your current DPS. But the main idea is that DoTs keep running and you can do others things while they do. For example, spam Flurry (first DW skill).

Now the problem is that the DW + Bow setup is actually the hardest one in game. I honestly can't understand how people pull 40-50k damage without using advance techniques like animation cancelling (serious, Hail takes forever), which allows them to skip the animation of skill. So skills are casted faster and you actually have time to spam Flurry rather then just reapply all your DoTs.

Yes, DoTs must be kept constantly. This is what people call rotation. Most basic idea: Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Twin Slashes, Deadly Cloak, spam Flurry twice, repeat. REPEAT ALL. (This is an example. This is not how it works, the rotation is much more complex, but the basic idea is that).

I'm sorry, OP. But the truth is, if you're not mashing your keyboard like you're playing the piano in DW + Bow setup... You're doing it wrong in terms of "competitive DPS".

P. S. Lethal Arrow is abysmal skill in terms of DPS. It takes too much time to channel. And the result is, mildly speaking, subpar to keeping several DoTs ticking. The damage of Lethal Arrow is pretty much nothing, noone is using this skill in serious situations (Vet Dungeons, Trials, etc).

Ep1kMalware

To be fair, 3mil hp can be very very hard for alot of people to sustain on without any sort of mentoring from other players. Is it funny? Yeah. But there's nothing wrong with it.

What class are you running OP?

Wolfenbelle

To everyone who responded and tried to take my question seriously, thank you. Re the snarky responses, meh. That nonsense is lost on me.

I didn't make my question clear enough. I am trying to understand how to effectively use the testing dummies I have. One is the "standard" health and one is the robust health. I have been using the "standard" one, removing all gear except weapons, and was trying each skill separately to see what it actually does. I was not trying to kill the dummy.

The Outgoing Damage and Outgoing Damage Over Time settings (ZOS' own numbers, not an add on) are whole numbers. The number from the dummy is a decimal. I do not understand the difference. So, for example, one Lethal Arrow shot (not a rotation; one shot) produced a scrolling whole number of over 11,000. On the dummy, the same skill produced about half that number and it is a decimal to boot.

What are these two different numbers telling me? That is the question. And yes, the character I was using is an Imperial Templar, stamina, DW front bar, bow back bar, with 589 CP (not all of which have been allocated yet). But again, none of that should really matter because the question is about the difference in the two numbers produced by ZOS' own systems.

Dantaria

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

So, for example, one Lethal Arrow shot (not a rotation; one shot) produced a scrolling whole number of over 11,000. On the dummy, the same skill produced about half that number and it is a decimal to boot.

Yes, because (again) DPS = Damage Per Second.

Just the damage from LA = 11000. However chanelling time + animation ~ 2 sec. You made 11k damage in 2 seconds. That's what dummy (DPS meter) is telling you: 11000 / 2 = 5500. Or 11000 / 1.89 (chanelling time + animation are not 2 secs actually, it's some strange number like that) = 5820.1 (hence the decimals).

Scrolling simply tells you the Damage. Not how much of it you make in second.

Dummy (DPS meter) is better in terms of your actual efficiency. Scrolling is better if you wish to know the damage of some skill.

bg22

DPS means damage per second...

It's an average of your damage over a timespan.

If I hit for 20,000 twice... in 1 minute, that doesn't mean I'm capable of 20,000 DPS.

SquareSausage

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

To everyone who responded and tried to take my question seriously, thank you. Re the snarky responses, meh. That nonsense is lost on me.

I didn't make my question clear enough. I am trying to understand how to effectively use the testing dummies I have. One is the "standard" health and one is the robust health. I have been using the "standard" one, removing all gear except weapons, and was trying each skill separately to see what it actually does. I was not trying to kill the dummy.

The Outgoing Damage and Outgoing Damage Over Time settings (ZOS' own numbers, not an add on) are whole numbers. The number from the dummy is a decimal. I do not understand the difference. So, for example, one Lethal Arrow shot (not a rotation; one shot) produced a scrolling whole number of over 11,000. On the dummy, the same skill produced about half that number and it is a decimal to boot.

What are these two different numbers telling me? That is the question. And yes, the character I was using is an Imperial Templar, stamina, DW front bar, bow back bar, with 589 CP (not all of which have been allocated yet). But again, none of that should really matter because the question is about the difference in the two numbers produced by ZOS' own systems.

Dude, everyone has already told you.

Lethal arrow shows on your scrolling text as 11000 as that is how much it hits for.

However the dummy will take a few seconds to disengage after your shot, so it will consider that period as the period you are damaging it, then divide your damage by that entire time period to give your Damage Per Second. Ie 11000(damage) / t (time)

Decimals come about by division.

The only way to get no extension of time after you disengage is to kill the dummy. So you can do 3 mill damage or reduce the dummies health to a lower value, let it reset then start and kill it.

Giraffon

I can't get good numbers off that dummy on some of my builds. For example, my tank...he does some of his damage by reflecting incoming damage back to the attacker. That never shows up because old lazy isn't hitting anything. He's just hangin' out. I've never seen numbers over 6K on that dummy even with my best DPS. I have no idea what these guys are doing. I can go into a dungeon and hit 30K plus DPS according to my DPS meter, but on the dummy...never seen it. I think a lot of it is that the calculations in the dungeons are coming off groups of targets. If a whole swarm of skeevers comes at me and I waste them all with AOEs I can hit crazy numbers very easy. Single Target DPS? Not so much.

I have an extra target dummy for sale at a guild trader. I may pull him and stick him next to the first one to see if it changes my numbers.

SquareSausage

Giraffon wrote: »

I can't get good numbers off that dummy on some of my builds. For example, my tank...he does some of his damage by reflecting incoming damage back to the attacker. That never shows up because old lazy isn't hitting anything. He's just hangin' out. I've never seen numbers over 6K on that dummy even with my best DPS. I have no idea what these guys are doin. I can go into a dungeon and going off a DPS meter, and hit 30K plus DPS but on the dummy...never seen it. I think a lot of it is that the calculations in the dungeons are coming off groups of targets. If a whole swarm of skeevers comes at me and I waste them all with AOEs I can hit crazy numbers very easy. Single Target DPS? Not so much.

I have an extra target dummy for sale at a guild trader. I may pull him and stick him next to the first one to see if it changes my numbers.

Yes, that would be correct, target dummy is single target, with AOE you can get crazy numbers as your doing collectively a much larger amount of damage in the same period of time.

6k single target is very low

Giraffon

SquareSausage wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

I can't get good numbers off that dummy on some of my builds. For example, my tank...he does some of his damage by reflecting incoming damage back to the attacker. That never shows up because old lazy isn't hitting anything. He's just hangin' out. I've never seen numbers over 6K on that dummy even with my best DPS. I have no idea what these guys are doin. I can go into a dungeon and going off a DPS meter, and hit 30K plus DPS but on the dummy...never seen it. I think a lot of it is that the calculations in the dungeons are coming off groups of targets. If a whole swarm of skeevers comes at me and I waste them all with AOEs I can hit crazy numbers very easy. Single Target DPS? Not so much.

I have an extra target dummy for sale at a guild trader. I may pull him and stick him next to the first one to see if it changes my numbers.

Yes, that would be correct, target dummy is single target, with AOE you can get crazy numbers as your doing collectively a much larger amount of damage in the same period of time.

6k single target is very low

That's what everyone says, but nobody can tell me exactly how they are getting high numbers. I have another thread on this and all I got was very vague answers. Can you direct me to a YouTube video or something where the build, gear, and rotation is revealed and the damage being done to the target skeleton is shown? I have yet to see anything helpful. As far as I'm concerned it's all an urban legend. Seeing is believing. Show me.

Asmael

Giraffon wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

I can't get good numbers off that dummy on some of my builds. For example, my tank...he does some of his damage by reflecting incoming damage back to the attacker. That never shows up because old lazy isn't hitting anything. He's just hangin' out. I've never seen numbers over 6K on that dummy even with my best DPS. I have no idea what these guys are doin. I can go into a dungeon and going off a DPS meter, and hit 30K plus DPS but on the dummy...never seen it. I think a lot of it is that the calculations in the dungeons are coming off groups of targets. If a whole swarm of skeevers comes at me and I waste them all with AOEs I can hit crazy numbers very easy. Single Target DPS? Not so much.

I have an extra target dummy for sale at a guild trader. I may pull him and stick him next to the first one to see if it changes my numbers.

Yes, that would be correct, target dummy is single target, with AOE you can get crazy numbers as your doing collectively a much larger amount of damage in the same period of time.

6k single target is very low

That's what everyone says, but nobody can tell me exactly how they are getting high numbers. I have another thread on this and all I got was very vague answers. Can you direct me to a YouTube video or something where the build, gear, and rotation is revealed and the damage being done to the target skeleton is shown? I have yet to see anything helpful. As far as I'm concerned it's all an urban legend. Seeing is believing. Show me.

There ya go. Target skeleton test starts at 8:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh5OqMF1MSQ

Shunravi

Giraffon wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

I can't get good numbers off that dummy on some of my builds. For example, my tank...he does some of his damage by reflecting incoming damage back to the attacker. That never shows up because old lazy isn't hitting anything. He's just hangin' out. I've never seen numbers over 6K on that dummy even with my best DPS. I have no idea what these guys are doin. I can go into a dungeon and going off a DPS meter, and hit 30K plus DPS but on the dummy...never seen it. I think a lot of it is that the calculations in the dungeons are coming off groups of targets. If a whole swarm of skeevers comes at me and I waste them all with AOEs I can hit crazy numbers very easy. Single Target DPS? Not so much.

I have an extra target dummy for sale at a guild trader. I may pull him and stick him next to the first one to see if it changes my numbers.

Yes, that would be correct, target dummy is single target, with AOE you can get crazy numbers as your doing collectively a much larger amount of damage in the same period of time.

6k single target is very low

That's what everyone says, but nobody can tell me exactly how they are getting high numbers. I have another thread on this and all I got was very vague answers. Can you direct me to a YouTube video or something where the build, gear, and rotation is revealed and the damage being done to the target skeleton is shown? I have yet to see anything helpful. As far as I'm concerned it's all an urban legend. Seeing is believing. Show me.

So what are you using to debuff/penetrate its resistances?