Skill points reset - why so pricy ?! most MMO's have it free.

taiji2078

starkerealm wrote: »

So, ZOS is greedy by requiring you to run a couple hours worth of content in order to respec? And yes, 20k is not a lot, if you're vendoring your drops. If you're scrapping everything, that's your mistake. If you were low level, I could say, "yeah, 20k is a lot of money for you," but by the time you've hit CR160, (which you've done if your skill respecs are in the 12k range), that should be either pocket change or something you can scrounge up in an afternoon of play.

Also, the cost of your respec scales to your spent skill points, so if you're complaining about the cost, a large part of that falls on your shoulders for filling out skill lines you're not even using.

Ok. So you make 10k / hour in ESO ? I need more than 1 hour to fill my bag with items. 100 items / 40 gold each = 4000 gold + some extra vendor ornate stuff let's say 5000. If you farm then vendor @ guild trader etc. then you get to make that gold, but it takes days to sell it. I honestly doubt it that any sane person is doing this in a game. Get a job ... or even better, do it in real life and be rich

Now go to Cyrodiil and come back after one hour with that gold. This NB was my only char for 2 years, mainly for PvP - so I did EVERYTHING with it, except gold farming, which I find useless and stupid - I'm doing enough of it in real life

Like in all other MMO's I played before. I don't like having 10 chars to do 10 different things. One is enough since even Zenimax told us that you can have one and play whatever you want with one char, without problems. OFC, if the player is obsessed with BIS stuff, best race, bla bla, have it their way. I don't care. That's not me. Then ... I noticed upon return that the NB got nerfed to the ground in PvP so I decided to try the new added content with a sorcerer. But wait ... I found on tamriel this cool NB build ... maybe it's not that dead ... but then ... I discovered that I need to pay real money to respec, since I didn't want to spend everything on a respec that I maybe don't even like.

I just want the game to be fair. This respec cost is TOO HIGH, compared to almost everything is out there in MMO world. I wish to be able to respec just to try things and then go back if I don't like them, without having to sacrifice hours of gameplay to farm that gold.

Another HUGE problem for me is the time I need to waste on investing the skill points with the animation and stuff ... it takes 15 minutes for a full respec ... unless you're a god and you know with your eyes closed where to put your points into ...

But man ... the way you twisted my searches makes me think you take this issue personally. Why ?! Do you have an interest in having this price high ? Are you a owner in this game ? Or you're just scared that you'll be less richer if some prices will drop ... strange reaction about a thing that would improve the game. Since they allow the respec, it should be accessible to ALL players not only to the rich ones.

lookstwice

starkerealm wrote: »

lookstwice wrote: »

The money is quite a bit but sometimes I wish I could just pay for removing skills. Even if it's more per point removal. I hate re-speccing and having to put all my points back when all I wanted to do is free up a few points.

For example I would like to take just 6 points out of provisioning and I don't want to redo everything for it. I would like an option to say pay 200-300 per point removal. I would probably pay for of them if I could do that.

You 'n me both. Also, an automatic refund when you cure vampirism or lycanthropy would be nice. As it is, your skill points stay spent on those skill lines, when you're cured.

That still happens? I thought that was fixed or at least I thought I had read something about it. But could be wrong.

Next time I'm on, I'm going to have to look at one of my toons in case I'm missing some points.

heaven13

Respeccing two years ago, I'd guess you didn't have all the skillpoints you've acquired since then.

You don't need ALL the sword/board skills for tanking. Been there, tried that. Didn't work to my advantage. Get yourself a taunt (should be first in that line) and supplement with some of your class skills.

I just respecced my tank to try a different build and even with full respec (not just morphs) and over 100 skill points, it wasn't so bad.

I know you said this thread was only regarding the cost and not how to avoid high costs later, but you can seriously do yourself some favors for the future. Might be best to cough it up the one time and only invest in skills that you're actively using while holding on to a reserve for the future.

My level 50 crafter does not have any skill points in decon (whatever the name of the passive is that gives you better chances to recover mats) because I give them to my non-50 alts to decon to level the line. If you have your research done, you don't need points in that anymore either.

Either way, it's still cheaper to respec, even at 20k than to abandon an old toon to create a new one, level them to 50, and re-earn a buttload of skill points by doing quests and skyshard hunting, especially if you're only wanting to do dungeons. (Another thing entirely if you're an altoholic and like questing)

starkerealm

lookstwice wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

lookstwice wrote: »

The money is quite a bit but sometimes I wish I could just pay for removing skills. Even if it's more per point removal. I hate re-speccing and having to put all my points back when all I wanted to do is free up a few points.

For example I would like to take just 6 points out of provisioning and I don't want to redo everything for it. I would like an option to say pay 200-300 per point removal. I would probably pay for of them if I could do that.

You 'n me both. Also, an automatic refund when you cure vampirism or lycanthropy would be nice. As it is, your skill points stay spent on those skill lines, when you're cured.

That still happens? I thought that was fixed or at least I thought I had read something about it. But could be wrong.

Next time I'm on, I'm going to have to look at one of my toons in case I'm missing some points.

If it got fixed, I missed that. To be fair, I haven't cured a character in awhile. I'm honestly not sure if I ever got the werewolf skill points back on either character I cured.

UrQuan

taiji2078 wrote: »

ITHE ONLY GREEDY company here is Zenimax, with the HIGHEST PRICES in the entire MMO's industry, using as an official excuse the economy of the servers ... BS IMO. If their economy lies on skills respecs ... lol ... clearly it's a lie. They just want to make more money from that 700 crowns scroll. No, I will not buy it.

Do you understand what happens to an MMO economy when there are no gold sinks? Do you want prices on everything in guild stores to skyrocket because gold is being injected into the economy but none is being taken out of the economy? It doesn't take a degree in economics to understand the consequences.

And if gold sinks to keep the economy from suffering rampant inflation is "a lie" and "an official excuse" because ZOS wants to force people to buy crown respec scrolls, then why did it cost so much gold to respec during the entire time ESO was subscription-only with no crown store?

It's trivially easy to make 20K gold in ESO. This is not a problem. This is one of the very small number of gold sinks that exist in ESO - it's a necessary element to fight inflation.

UrQuan

taiji2078 wrote: »

Ok. So you make 10k / hour in ESO ? I need more than 1 hour to fill my bag with items. 100 items / 40 gold each = 4000 gold + some extra vendor ornate stuff let's say 5000. If you farm then vendor @ guild trader etc. then you get to make that gold, but it takes days to sell it. I honestly doubt it that any sane person is doing this in a game. Get a job ... or even better, do it in real life and be rich

It's ridiculously easy to make more than 10K in an hour by stealing and selling the greens, blues, and purples you get. If I'm just PVE questing I'll usually make about 10K in an hour. Just doing 6 crafting writs at level 50 (which takes maybe 5 minutes max if you're prepared) gets you about 4K.

Without really trying, I've gone from 0 gold a week and a half ago (because I spent all my gold on Daggerfall Overlook) to 480K gold today. And that's with playing probably an average of 1-2 hours a day, and without bothering with selling stuff on guild stores.

Sordidfairytale

UrQuan wrote: »

taiji2078 wrote: »

Ok. So you make 10k / hour in ESO ? I need more than 1 hour to fill my bag with items. 100 items / 40 gold each = 4000 gold + some extra vendor ornate stuff let's say 5000. If you farm then vendor @ guild trader etc. then you get to make that gold, but it takes days to sell it. I honestly doubt it that any sane person is doing this in a game. Get a job ... or even better, do it in real life and be rich

It's ridiculously easy to make more than 10K in an hour by stealing and selling the greens, blues, and purples you get. If I'm just PVE questing I'll usually make about 10K in an hour. Just doing 6 crafting writs at level 50 (which takes maybe 5 minutes max if you're prepared) gets you about 4K.

Without really trying, I've gone from 0 gold a week and a half ago (because I spent all my gold on Daggerfall Overlook) to 480K gold today. And that's with playing probably an average of 1-2 hours a day, and without bothering with selling stuff on guild stores.

Additionally a max crafter can make about 20k in 10 minutes, from crafting.

starkerealm

taiji2078 wrote: »

Ok. So you make 10k / hour in ESO ?

It's probably around 12k / hour, if I'm being precise.

taiji2078 wrote: »

I honestly doubt it that any sane person is doing this in a game. Get a job ... or even better, do it in real life and be rich

Yeah, don't know if you've noticed, but the law tends to take a dim view of murdering people and taking their stuff. Also, I'm not talking about farming. I'm talking about the undaunted and FG dailies. Mages Guild as well, for that matter, though I didn't mention it specifically.

taiji2078 wrote: »

Now go to Cyrodiil and come back after one hour with that gold.

I think not. For one thing, I'm not an idiot. If you're wanting to make cash, then Cyrodiil is not the place. You can make some money selling AP, but with the recent event, I suspect the market for that has tanked.

You can also sell Tel Var stuff, but, as with AP, that requires that you find a live player willing to buy whatever you're picking up. So, no, run PvE, not PvP, if you want to make gold. That hasn't changed since launch. Also, in case you missed it, you cannot resell anything you buy from The Golden. Don't even try.

taiji2078 wrote: »

One is enough since even Zenimax told us that you can have one and play whatever you want with one char, without problems.

And, this is still true. You can run any content on any character. It doesn't mean the game accepts terrible builds, however. Nor did they say you could change your mind at any moment and become another character.

taiji2078 wrote: »

But wait ... I found on tamriel this cool NB build ... maybe it's not that dead ... but then ... I discovered that I need to pay real money to respec, since I didn't want to spend everything on a respec that I maybe don't even like.

Or you could actually play the game for a few hours. If you're going to restrict yourself to Cyrodiil, then, yes, that's going to cut into your income substantially.

taiji2078 wrote: »

I just want the game to be fair. This respec cost is TOO HIGH, compared to almost everything is out there in MMO world.

You. Just. Compared. This. To. A. Game. Where. A. Respec. Takes. Two. And. A. Half. Days. Of. Grinding.

taiji2078 wrote: »

I wish to be able to respec just to try things and then go back if I don't like them, without having to sacrifice hours of gameplay to farm that gold.

At this point, I have to wonder if you've ever even played STO.

taiji2078 wrote: »

Another HUGE problem for me is the time I need to waste on investing the skill points with the animation and stuff ... it takes 15 minutes for a full respec ... unless you're a god and you know with your eyes closed where to put your points into ...

No, that's a legitimate issue. The problem is, you're crying because you put your points into everything, and then ran out. Which is, also why your respec is so expensive, by the way.

taiji2078 wrote: »

But man ... the way you twisted my searches makes me think you take this issue personally.

Nine times out of ten, I come on here, offer help and advice. I told you, "look, it's not that bad, actually play the game for a couple hours."

taiji2078 wrote: »

Why ?! Do you have an interest in having this price high ?

Because, it's not that high, if you actually play the game.

taiji2078 wrote: »

Are you a owner in this game ?

Really? This is what you think? The developers sit on the board hiding behind sockpuppets offering advice on how to play the game. That makes sense to you?

starkerealm

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

taiji2078 wrote: »

Ok. So you make 10k / hour in ESO ? I need more than 1 hour to fill my bag with items. 100 items / 40 gold each = 4000 gold + some extra vendor ornate stuff let's say 5000. If you farm then vendor @ guild trader etc. then you get to make that gold, but it takes days to sell it. I honestly doubt it that any sane person is doing this in a game. Get a job ... or even better, do it in real life and be rich

It's ridiculously easy to make more than 10K in an hour by stealing and selling the greens, blues, and purples you get. If I'm just PVE questing I'll usually make about 10K in an hour. Just doing 6 crafting writs at level 50 (which takes maybe 5 minutes max if you're prepared) gets you about 4K.

Without really trying, I've gone from 0 gold a week and a half ago (because I spent all my gold on Daggerfall Overlook) to 480K gold today. And that's with playing probably an average of 1-2 hours a day, and without bothering with selling stuff on guild stores.

Additionally a max crafter can make about 20k in 10 minutes, from crafting.

A max crafter can make way more than that in about 10 minutes, if they've got a couple good gigs lined up.

ColoursYouHave

Watch this video OP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

CheepsNSalsa

Since when is there a story line or skill points in RuneScape?

starkerealm

CheepsNSalsa wrote: »

Since when is there a story line or skill points in RuneScape?

To be fair, there are a lot of errors with that list.

Sordidfairytale

starkerealm wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

taiji2078 wrote: »

Ok. So you make 10k / hour in ESO ? I need more than 1 hour to fill my bag with items. 100 items / 40 gold each = 4000 gold + some extra vendor ornate stuff let's say 5000. If you farm then vendor @ guild trader etc. then you get to make that gold, but it takes days to sell it. I honestly doubt it that any sane person is doing this in a game. Get a job ... or even better, do it in real life and be rich

It's ridiculously easy to make more than 10K in an hour by stealing and selling the greens, blues, and purples you get. If I'm just PVE questing I'll usually make about 10K in an hour. Just doing 6 crafting writs at level 50 (which takes maybe 5 minutes max if you're prepared) gets you about 4K.

Without really trying, I've gone from 0 gold a week and a half ago (because I spent all my gold on Daggerfall Overlook) to 480K gold today. And that's with playing probably an average of 1-2 hours a day, and without bothering with selling stuff on guild stores.

Additionally a max crafter can make about 20k in 10 minutes, from crafting.

A max crafter can make way more than that in about 10 minutes, if they've got a couple good gigs lined up.

You are absolutely correct, I should have said; "a max crafter can make about 20k in 10 minutes selling to a vendor, from crafting."

starkerealm

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

taiji2078 wrote: »

Ok. So you make 10k / hour in ESO ? I need more than 1 hour to fill my bag with items. 100 items / 40 gold each = 4000 gold + some extra vendor ornate stuff let's say 5000. If you farm then vendor @ guild trader etc. then you get to make that gold, but it takes days to sell it. I honestly doubt it that any sane person is doing this in a game. Get a job ... or even better, do it in real life and be rich

It's ridiculously easy to make more than 10K in an hour by stealing and selling the greens, blues, and purples you get. If I'm just PVE questing I'll usually make about 10K in an hour. Just doing 6 crafting writs at level 50 (which takes maybe 5 minutes max if you're prepared) gets you about 4K.

Without really trying, I've gone from 0 gold a week and a half ago (because I spent all my gold on Daggerfall Overlook) to 480K gold today. And that's with playing probably an average of 1-2 hours a day, and without bothering with selling stuff on guild stores.

Additionally a max crafter can make about 20k in 10 minutes, from crafting.

A max crafter can make way more than that in about 10 minutes, if they've got a couple good gigs lined up.

You are absolutely correct, I should have said; "a max crafter can make about 20k in 10 minutes selling to a vendor, from crafting."

Okay, that was the detail I was missing. Mybad.

Cpt_Teemo

What can you craft that sells for more to a vendor, usually the materials used cost alot more than what the finished product is most of the time

zaria

UrQuan wrote: »

Mashille wrote: »

So they can make people buy it for crowns and make that CASH MONEY!

This is definitely not the reason. If it was then it wouldn't have cost gold to respec back before the crown store even existed. In fact, IIRC the gold cost of a respec is lower today than it was at launch.

At launch it was idiotic expensive and you could not reset morphs.

I guess its pretty expensive so people will not respec all the time depending on that they do.
Probably more than an gold sink like repair or horse food.

Sordidfairytale

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

What can you craft that sells for more to a vendor, usually the materials used cost alot more than what the finished product is most of the time

PM sent

starkerealm

zaria wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Mashille wrote: »

So they can make people buy it for crowns and make that CASH MONEY!

This is definitely not the reason. If it was then it wouldn't have cost gold to respec back before the crown store even existed. In fact, IIRC the gold cost of a respec is lower today than it was at launch.

At launch it was idiotic expensive and you could not reset morphs.

I guess its pretty expensive so people will not respec all the time depending on that they do.
Probably more than an gold sink like repair or horse food.

That reminds me, the champion star that reduces repair costs is really worth it, at endgame. It doesn't seem like much, but over time, it's still extra cash.

TheShadowScout

Personally I find the respec prices quite all right.

Easily earnable for an endgame character, but not so cheap as to make choices all meaningless and let people respec twice a day.

I for one think they got the right balance between "pay cash" and "free"...

starkerealm

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I find the respec prices quite all right.

Easily earnable for an endgame character, but not so cheap as to make choices all meaningless and let people respec twice a day.

I for one think they got the right balance between "pay cash" and "free"...

As with a lot of things, I think the pay cash option is a bit steep. But, honestly, it's another case where I feel the point of item being in there is to push you towards actually logging in and playing the game, rather than just grabbing it out of the store.

A game that wanted you burning through them would jack up the price in game, and make the store bought ones cheap enough that you'd come running to that preferentially.

For example, the STO suggestion above: 2.5 days of grinding vs... $2.50? I think. It might be as high as $5, but it's still a way lower cost than grinding up the dilithium to pay for it.

Lieblingsjunge

You keep mentioning it's "cheap" in other games. Let me tell you this: 20k gold is *cheap* in ESO.

Tommy_The_Gun

I just wish there was more options... When I reset all skill point most of the time I just spend the almost the same, but with minor difference. Why ZOS won't make it like this:
- Reset Class Skills
- Reset Armour Skills
- Reset Weapon Skills
- Rest World Skills
- Rest Crafting Skills etc.

Or better yet - just make is like resetting CP points, so you can - / + skills and if you reset only like 5 passives - then it will cost less and will not take that much time.... Right now it is simply a pain in the a** if you want to rest like only 10 skill.... why it so hard to implement ? ? ?

zuto40

Ha you think ESO respec is bad? lol i used to play pirate101, let me explain the combat system in this piece of ***, its your character and 3 companions per fight, you'll need at least 6 different companion choices to be competitive, if you paid the monthly fee you could respec your companions for gold, but if you didnt you had to use crowns to respec all 6(and more depending if you played at the top) and your pirate for a total of 16k crowns, which is $32, so either $12 a month plus $8 more if you wanted to respec or $32 at a time PER CHARACTER, and most people played multiple characters, not to mention the fact that multiple of these companions were crown only companions meaning youd have to pay up hundreds to be competitive on multiple characters, eso has a bad economy but at least its not real money

Tholian1

I don't mind the price. I just wish we could save skill setups as convenient presets to switch between.

Korinth

They way we need to shift skill points and such around depending on dungeon we are going into it needs to be free.

SunfireKnight86

Because for a very long time it was literally the only gold sink in most players price range. Now it's because they sell it in the Crown Store. It won't change.

Muramasa89

taiji2078 wrote: »

Runescape - free respec when you finish the story line.

No. The closest thing to a respec is a FEW specific skills and it's not a point based system or anything (i.e. you cannot re-invest them, you need to earn them again). "when you finish the story line" is completely meaningless. The reset is also highly undesirable to most as it undoes a lot of work (more than just skills, some quests, titles too) and was only ever implemented to appease "skillers" because the combat level mechanics were reworked and ruined some "builds". On top of this, the reset is a ONE TIME use only and to a player who would never need such an option, can turn it off entirely (in case of hacking).
Even if you want to say "it's still technically a skill reset", they're two completely different things because of how they're implemented. Coupling this with another comment I see, I doubt the validity of whatever your source is.

Edit: typos!

alexkdd99

Go farm some gold and stop expecting the devs to change their game to meet your needs. Out of the things wrong with this game respec cost is at the bottom. You are also forgetting that they give you the ability to get more skill points than you could possibly need in this game. So don't want to pay to respec (even though it's not that much) then go farm some skill points.

maxjapank

taiji2078 wrote: »

Sorry for my bad english: you already know it's not my mother language.

No offense. But your English is pretty darn good! So good in fact that I wondered if some "native" speaker just wrote this so that people would be easy on him.

Rene_Valionus

After reading through all the posts, specially the OP's i don't even know whats their to complain about...... the in-game currency price for a skill reset is irrelevant regardless of how steep it is since it is not behind a pay-wall thus basically "free" as you only need in-game "effort" to obtain the amount required.

This to me comes off more of "I'm too lazy to farm gold, i'l just complain about it instead" and even if you'd argue that not everyone has the time to farm gold or not everyone is "rich" in-game you'd still just accumulate gold by simply playing the game and i'd bet at any given time you'd probably have more than enough for a single respec, and at that point would you really need to respec again anytime soon? unless of course you blindly put skills here and there then i guess you would...

For me the current price for a respec is just fine, i don't always do it and i don't have the need to always do it and when i do i actually take the time and effort to think about the skills i want to get, so if anything else the high price at the higher levels is actually a deterrent for me to not be lazy and actually read the skills available to me.