Current state of Stamina DK

sneakymitchell

Without vma weapons. In soviet Russia ur DPS is low. I really hate everything involving around vma weapons.

JinMori

Stam dk took a hit last patch whit the standard nerf, my suggestion would be this, make flames of oblivion Poison and fire damage based on your max stats, Whip should stay like it is, because 1 morph is good for pvp and 1 for pve, instead make flames of oblivion hit every target within a certain range every 5 seconds, that would pretty much solve all aoe problems. Other then that i don't know.
For pvp, i would presonally do a sword and board build with heroic slash or ransack as my main spammable, wrecking blow is a bit unreliable thanks to the cast time.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

DHale

Igneous shield gives major mending and a boost of 5 percent weapon damage take flight can literally do 14 k plus damage in pvp. Venomous claw is the strongest dot in the game. Noxious breath provides major breach stripping armor. Volatile armor makes it possible to run heavy or medium armor successfully. I can go corrosive armor into a Zerg and with steel tornado I literally kill a dozen players on a keep flag all by my lonesome. It is just very well rounded and does well solo or small group or large group.

MaxwellC

@DHale
Don't make exaggerations lol, you never went into a zerg and killed people with corrosive armor + steel tornado. The only way you'd do that is if you had someone guarding you and had a healer + were emperor.

Take flight can do 14k plus damage as you say but that is a case by case situation and the key were is 'can'; Onslaught is better and so is smiting dawn-breaker.

Venom claw is a close range ability but in PvP DoTs that do not execute are not powerful unless you play non CP.

Noxious breath consistently misses/ does not apply a debuff more than half the time even when an enemy is in front of me.

volatile armor does not make you magically play med armor, you can do so fine without it as I do it with just shuffle if you think you need volatile armor well you need to play your class correctly because no setup except for a mag would need a resistance buff especially if you have shuffle. Aka L2P issue.

Again stop making exaggerations, people like yourself fail to accurately represent the class. If you have proof of you going into a zerg wiping them or dropping even 1 person (with the so called corrosive armor + steel tornado) please send me a clip I would LOVE to SEE it. I've went into a zerg as emp and did the same thing and no they do not drop but if I use smiting dawn-breaker well that would kill a few.

Lexxypwns

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Lexxypwns
Sorry but when you went over the stam version being better than mag especially with this patch in PvP you lost me.

First of all you went into the HA Meta and made it seem that it is entirely one sided with stamina being the best beneficator which isn't true whatsoever. There are plenty of Mag/Stam DKs that rock HA in PvP more so Mag because well they'd get wrecked since they can only take but so many CCs.

Sword and board. Your first statement about 5-5-2 shouldn't have even been mentioned because you make it seem that Mag DK doesn't do that at all in PvP which would be false.

Ransack or pierce armor is something you'd rarely see because of noxious breath I feel like you're confusing stam dk with a stam sorc but remember noxious breath as I stated above isn't accurate and misses more than half the time.

The burst Heal that Mag DKs receive now definitely keeps it on par if not better than a stam DK (1v1 aspect) as you have access to burning embers that heals you near to full while coag crits heals you (ember heals do crit as well).

Increased resource return on Heavy attacks should be removed because if you use a heavy resto staff you could get far more magicka back then stam so you're being unfair again.

I'll give you heroic slash but not reverb as some Mag DKs do run that as well + I've seen some use shuffle too.

Blocking is FAR BETTER on a Mag DK like are you kidding me?? I've faced plenty of near perma-blocking/perma rooting Mag DKs who spam talons/fossilize while blocking to no end so again you are being unfair.

Venom Claw is a cheap DoT and so is burning embers but burning embers provides an insane burst heal that can be spammed with no cool down attached to it. Venom claw in a CP-less PvP wouldn't be preferred unless you're dueling btw because open world PvP with all the skills you have to slot to make up for the lack of skills to use, why would you use a skill that doesn't expose enemies who are hidden? Noxious breath is mainly useful for that just saying. Addition: In a CP campaign venom claw is three times in damage first by battle spirit, then by CP defender and lastly by thick skin.

You mentioned volatile armor as if Mag DK doesn't use that first of all our pool isn't enough to sustain for revealing hidden enemies so again that's an invalid argument to even make in the first place when we need to be cheap with our resources thanks to how costly the mag abilities are. We need Fossilize and we need igneous shield both for resource return and one for a Hard CC while the other for increased healing.

I'll give you minor brutality and the stamina return but healing wise we both mag/stam receive that benefit and imo it benefits Mag more because you can keep it up longer since your resources would allow for it + reduction built into CP/armor type and it does not work with constitution not sure where that claim came from but fix it. Stam return from igneous shield is mediocre at best like 5% of your max stam for a skill that costs nearly 4.5k magicka lol? My pool is 8k in non CP and 9k in CP, I'm not about to spam igneous shield and be screwed when facing an enemy who I'm trying to setup an animation cancel on since my stam skills are mainly all weapon abilities that can kill but requires animation cancelling to do so.

2H on a bar back. Reverse slice does not proc battle rush please do not misinform people battle rush is proc'd when you kill an enemy with a 2H or a 2H ability at-least look into the passives before making false claims. You imply that follow up which I assume (since I'm not on the game atm but resting from a work out) is the extra damage which is 10% after using it, yeah it's good an is the only way I'm going to kill you honestly. I will need to HA - animation cancel - ability, HA - animation cancel - ultimate.

Stam DK is far from rock solid people love to misinterpret the class as a whole thanks to people screaming about proc sets which are pretty much weak in PvP for the most part. Stam DK is the punching bag the community loves to make misrepresentation of because that's their excuse for not trying to be fair and give us something that we need.

We need an AoE like I stated before Flames of Oblivion needs to be an AoE heck I wouldn't care if it was turned into poison and cauterize was just left as a single target damage ability like the current flames of oblivion just name it something else (side note flames oblivion is funny as the name 'flames' implies multiple yet it's a small ball not balls). We need reductions in ingenuous shield for sustain, we need more skills to use I honestly like that Minotaur skill that they use with molten rock; If ZOS makes more I hope they give us one like that as a trap type skill.


TL;DR Fix your claims and stop being unfair to Stam DKs as they are definitely weaker than Mag unless you're not playing your class right. I've faced many who will sit there pop an immovable potion an spam talons on me while near perma blocking and all I got is a measly dizzing swing, injections, or heroic slashs. Now I could do the same but note that I'm eating into my offensive resource while a mag isn't.

You're clearly agroed here but you forgot one thing. I NEVER said sDK > mDK bro. I simply said sDK doesn't need to get mDK gutted to have useful skills. There's too many trash skills and morphs that can be fixed/used to make Stam better. Also, for what it's worth, the three overpowered things I mentioned all apply to mDK. This isn't an mDK vs sDK post, it's a don't ruin mDK for the sake of sDK post.

Lol man, you gotta chill

MaxwellC

@Lexxypwns
So because my points were valid you assume I was pissed or in anyway angry well no I was irritated that people would make false claims while also being entirely unfair. You've clearly implied in your points that Stam DK is better than Mag DK even claiming it to be "rock solid".

I'm chilled if I were as you stated 'angry' you would be able to tell it when I fly insults at you but clearly I'm not I just don't want people to keep consistently inaccurately misrepresenting the class that I've most likely played longer then them (DK since Craglorn release).

Stam DK needs more skills and it needs less reliance on weapon skills while also giving it an AoE for PvE. I would love to see new skils added were the majority of the new skills are stamina based in particular that Minotaur ability is what I want.

DHale

MaxwellC wrote: »

@DHale
Don't make exaggerations lol, you never went into a zerg and killed people with corrosive armor + steel tornado. The only way you'd do that is if you had someone guarding you and had a healer + were emperor.

Take flight can do 14k plus damage as you say but that is a case by case situation and the key were is 'can'; Onslaught is better and so is smiting dawn-breaker.

Venom claw is a close range ability but in PvP DoTs that do not execute are not powerful unless you play non CP.

Noxious breath consistently misses/ does not apply a debuff more than half the time even when an enemy is in front of me.

volatile armor does not make you magically play med armor, you can do so fine without it as I do it with just shuffle if you think you need volatile armor well you need to play your class correctly because no setup except for a mag would need a resistance buff especially if you have shuffle. Aka L2P issue.

Again stop making exaggerations, people like yourself fail to accurately represent the class. If you have proof of you going into a zerg wiping them or dropping even 1 person please send me a clip I would LOVE to SEE it. I've went into a zerg as emp and did the same thing and no they do not drop but if I use smiting dawn-breaker well that would kill a few.

It seems to me that you very much sound like a baddie, but it's ok ESO may not be for you. I don't need to exaggerate it's not tough to do well on a stam DK. It's a very strong class. Maybe stam sorc would be better for you as you could use hurricane and not have to aim any of your skills. Or better yet just mind your own business as I was definelty not talking to anyone who can't use tab targeting.

Lexxypwns

@Anti_Virus

I just wanna input, DoTs aren't killing people in Pvp, but they do apply pressure and concurrent damage(timing your burst with multiple dot ticks) is very strong when used properly. A 10k DB is a joke, but add a 2k claw crit and 1.2k noxious/trap beast crit and animation canceled light attack and you're at 14-15k burst.

MaxwellC

@DHale
Mate just don't make exaggerations or put up if not then stop. You claim I'm bad because I called you out yet you still cannot provide a clip of you using corrosive armor into steel tornado while within a zerg which you miraculously killed a dozens (plural meaning more than 1 dozen in this statement which would be over 24 but regardless killing over 12 lmfao).

You obviously do not play a Stam DK and most likely only main a sorc based on your sig; you're definitely the 'bad' one if you feel that you need volatile armor to play medium like are you serious lol?

You can do well on a Stam DK if you can animation cancel but if you can't you will ultimately get wrecked end of story and I still find it funny that you said

DHale wrote: »

I don't need to exaggerate

yet

DHale wrote: »

I can go corrosive armor into a Zerg and with steel tornado I literally kill a dozen players on a keep flag all by my lonesome. It is just very well rounded and does well solo or small group or large group.

Wtf is that suppose to be ^ I believe sir that's called an exaggeration.

Lexxypwns

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Lexxypwns
So because my points were valid you assume I was pissed or in anyway angry well no I was irritated that people would make false claims while also being entirely unfair. You've clearly implied in your points that Stam DK is better than Mag DK even claiming it to be "rock solid".

I'm chilled if I were as you stated 'angry' you would be able to tell it when I fly insults at you but clearly I'm not I just don't want people to keep consistently inaccurately misrepresenting the class that I've most likely played longer then them (DK since Craglorn release).

Stam DK needs more skills and it needs less reliance on weapon skills while also giving it an AoE for PvE. I would love to see new skils added were the majority of the new skills are stamina based in particular that Minotaur ability is what I want.

I didn't imply anything man. Save your frustrations. I'm just answering a question, haven't refuted any points about Stam DK needing help or anything. I just don't want to see one class get gutted for another to succeed when they both have useless skills in their trees.

Frag shield should deal useful Stam based damage on explosion.
Ash cloud needs a Stam based morph, there's no reason it can't be reasonable GTAoE damage.
There's a bad morph of the armor buff, bad dragon blood morph, wings needs a whole rework, foo needs a whole rework, etc.

Taking the best morph of two class skills from mDK just kills mDK for the sake of making sDK play exactly like magika.

Surely you don't want this, otherwise you can just play magika. The path to stamDK buffs lies in trash class skills not in taking things from mDK.

Edit: as for your points being accurate, your view on venenous claw is underplaying its use for concurrent damage and kills with reverse slice DO proc battle rush.

Jjitsuboy98

I feel Stam Dk is the best class in PVP. Sure you have to use weapon skill lines but I dont care. I have everything I need. I have good constant pressure with light attack ransack bash. I have a very good CC AND a heal debuff with reverb bash. I have some of the best healing with igneous and vigor/rally. I have a high burst ultimate with take flight or I can use dawnbreaker. I'm extra tanky with shuffle and volatile. I have a good gap closer and execcute with critical rush and executioner. I have almost infinite sustain unless I'm just zerged down. My only complaint would be the lack of mobility .

Mag DK not having an execute gets annoying sometimes. Also the sustain is not as good stamina or Magicka wise on a Mag DK. Coag Blood is great for healing now but just isn't as good as igneous and constant uptime on Vigor even with burning embers. Perma block is the best way to survive in a solo environment and to Spec for that you lose a lot of damage. Dueling a Light Armor Resto staff Mag DK is a tough fight but to run that setup in cyrodil is suicide. You really don't have enough slots open to run a gap closer and fossilize either so usually you choose fossilize since its so powerful as a CC. And I hate having to be a vampire because the extra fire damage sucks especially if you are fighting another mag dk. Anyways just my two cents and experience.

MaxwellC

@Lexxypwns
Nah for one I do not want a stam whip as I feel its useless, I'll admit a long time ago I've stated I wanted something like that but now I feel very different (I stated in this thread already that we do not need a stam whip).

Venom claw does not preform well in open world PvP unless it's non CP because it's not an execute DoT and that's a fact. You can easily heal through it in CP PvP, shield it, and purge it. It may apply consistent weak damage but does not warrant the need for it to be on my skill set unless I'm in PvE or dueling with SnB.

Regarding reverse slice you stated that it procs battle rush as if when you use it battle rush is proc'd immediately instead of after the kill

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Also, reverse slice procs battle rush 30% increase in stam recovery, even on low recovery builds this is significant.

You will need to fix the way you said it then.

Also I do wanna add this: The morphs you listed above aren't needed, frag shield doesn't need to become stam because no one would use it I mean maybe PvE but certainty not PvP since you'd lose major mending. Ash cloud doesn't need a stam morph but Flames of Oblivion needs to become an AoE and have a stam morph just make Cauterize a single target damage ability like the current flames of oblivion and that would be fine. What we need is better sustain and more skills since the rest of the skills are solid if not only used by mag DKs.

Lexxypwns

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Lexxypwns
Nah for one I do not want a stam whip as I feel its useless, I'll admit a long time ago I've stated I wanted something like that but now I feel very different (I stated in this thread already that we do not need a stam whip).

Venom claw does not preform well in open world PvP unless it's non CP because it's not an execute DoT and that's a fact. You can easily heal through it in CP PvP, shield it, and purge it. It may apply consistent weak damage but does not warrant the need for it to be on my skill set unless I'm in PvE or dueling with SnB.

Regarding reverse slice you stated that it procs battle rush as if when you use it battle rush is proc'd immediately instead of after the kill

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Also, reverse slice procs battle rush 30% increase in stam recovery, even on low recovery builds this is significant.

You will need to fix the way you said it then.

Also I do wanna add this: The morphs you listed above aren't needed, frag shield doesn't need to become stam because no one would use it I mean maybe PvE but certainty not PvP since you'd lose major mending. Ash cloud doesn't need a stam morph but Flames of Oblivion needs to become an AoE and have a stam morph just make Cauterize a single target damage ability like the current flames of oblivion and that would be fine. What we need is better sustain and more skills since the rest of the skills are solid if not only used by mag DKs.

I assume you weren't here when frag shield was good, I understand your ignorance if that's the case.

Here's how I personally use venom claw on a medium armor build like yours.
Bow medium-poison injection-bar swap-stampede-la-venomous claw-heavy attack-dawnbreaker-execute.

The goal is to time the dawnbreaker/leap burst(10k+) with ticks from both DoTS(4k+) and the heavy (5k++). That's about 20k concurrent damage, which is the burst needed to kill most competent players.

That's on a non-meta build at that. With SnB you lose a fraction of the burst but get a Stam based CC and heal debuff.

hmsdragonfly

LorDrek wrote: »

How many cllass skills use on yours stamDK? Venoms claws, flames of oblivion, ultimate standart of might. From 30 skills only 2,from 6 ultimate only 1, in Pve-stamdk dps. It says it all.

Aren't all stam classes supposed to be that way?

MaxwellC

@Lexxypwns
You'd have to clue me in on when frag was better than igneous shield as I've been playing DK since the release of craglorn .

Venom claw isn't needed in that setup you could easily sub it for trap beast or even noxious breath which would be better for damage (if the debuff comes off). Noxious breath also has it's utility for finding hidden enemies which make it way better to use than a target only ability.

I'm welcome to duel you since I know your GT on Xbox NA and we can both face off, I do not run meta at all nor do I run sword n shield.

I usually go HA (only if the range is close enough for animation cancel) Stampede, nox breath (maybe twice if the debuff doesn't work the first time) injection, HA onslaught as that would kill you if your HP is below 14k as I know unless you're blocking I will hit at-least 10k if not hit your entire HP.

Utherix

The stamina morphs were a band-aid fix to a flawed combat system to allow Stamina DKs to even exist. Adding more stamina morphs takes away the options from Mag DK. That's why stam morphs were a bad fix.

Lexxypwns

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Lexxypwns
You'd have to clue me in on when frag was better than igneous shield as I've been playing DK since the release of craglorn .

Venom claw isn't needed in that setup you could easily sub it for trap beast or even noxious breath which would be better for damage (if the debuff comes off). Noxious breath also has it's utility for finding hidden enemies which make it way better to use than a target only ability.

I'm welcome to duel you since I know your GT on Xbox NA and we can both face off, I do not run meta at all nor do I run sword n shield.

I usually go HA (only if the range is close enough for animation cancel) Stampede, nox breath (maybe twice if the debuff doesn't work the first time) injection, HA onslaught as that would kill you if your HP is below 14k as I know unless you're blocking I will hit at-least 10k if not hit your entire HP.

We can duel if you want, I'll even let you pick what you want to fight against. I'm gonna run and use what works though so no complaints of cheese. Add me on Xbox.

I'd much rather run some open world with you, I've got a pretty cancerous pocket healer build I'm gonna be running this patch.

MaxwellC

@Lexxypwns
You can message me on XBL I'm in haderus right now so if you've got another character that isn't DC then just meet me somewhere. Doesn't matter if you use a cancerous build as long as you use what you theory you stated above.

I only run PvP solo so if you're asking to group up with me well if you play haderus or scourge you'll only see me solo.

Anti_Virus

MaxwellC wrote: »

@DHale
Don't make exaggerations lol, you never went into a zerg and killed people with corrosive armor + steel tornado. The only way you'd do that is if you had someone guarding you and had a healer + were emperor.

Take flight can do 14k plus damage as you say but that is a case by case situation and the key were is 'can'; Onslaught is better and so is smiting dawn-breaker.

Venom claw is a close range ability but in PvP DoTs that do not execute are not powerful unless you play non CP.

Noxious breath consistently misses/ does not apply a debuff more than half the time even when an enemy is in front of me.

volatile armor does not make you magically play med armor, you can do so fine without it as I do it with just shuffle if you think you need volatile armor well you need to play your class correctly because no setup except for a mag would need a resistance buff especially if you have shuffle. Aka L2P issue.

Again stop making exaggerations, people like yourself fail to accurately represent the class. If you have proof of you going into a zerg wiping them or dropping even 1 person (with the so called corrosive armor + steel tornado) please send me a clip I would LOVE to SEE it. I've went into a zerg as emp and did the same thing and no they do not drop but if I use smiting dawn-breaker well that would kill a few.

I think it's because of bias most of these guys don't make a good detailed analysis, they had a bad experience against a certain play style of a sDK and now its OP without further evaluation.

MaxwellC

@Anti_Virus
Yup which is why after he responded and I shut him down again he has yet to respond to me. People like that make this game difficult to get things addressed because they feel that one bad play they make means that the opposing class is OP unless it's their class.

Anti_Virus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

I just wanna input, DoTs aren't killing people in Pvp, but they do apply pressure and concurrent damage(timing your burst with multiple dot ticks) is very strong when used properly. A 10k DB is a joke, but add a 2k claw crit and 1.2k noxious/trap beast crit and animation canceled light attack and you're at 14-15k burst.

This is exactly what I'm talking about people like you look at one spectrum of play style from the sDK and claim its OP.

Not every stam dk uses proc sets, trap beast, heavy armor etc. So should I be punished because these players are forced to run these skills to be effective?

You guys took away Ferocious leap from Stam DK and gave it to mDK although it didn't need it.

Anti_Virus

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

LorDrek wrote: »

How many cllass skills use on yours stamDK? Venoms claws, flames of oblivion, ultimate standart of might. From 30 skills only 2,from 6 ultimate only 1, in Pve-stamdk dps. It says it all.

Aren't all stam classes supposed to be that way?

No Stam NB has 5-6 good class morphs
Same with stam templars

Stam Sorc and DK are just weapon classes.

Lexxypwns

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

I just wanna input, DoTs aren't killing people in Pvp, but they do apply pressure and concurrent damage(timing your burst with multiple dot ticks) is very strong when used properly. A 10k DB is a joke, but add a 2k claw crit and 1.2k noxious/trap beast crit and animation canceled light attack and you're at 14-15k burst.

This is exactly what I'm talking about people like you look at one spectrum of play style from the sDK and claim its OP.

Not every stam dk uses proc sets, trap beast, heavy armor etc. So should I be punished because these players are forced to run these skills to be effective?

You guys took away Ferocious leap from Stam DK and gave it to mDK although it didn't need it.

Again, I'm not saying Stam DK is OP, I'm saying its in a good enough place that we don't need to take away from mDK to augment Stam DK when there are bad class skills that can be reworked.

I_killed_Vivec

I think the problem is best illustrated by the people who say there is not problem...

"Well, you go HA, S&B and use..."

"DW gives you AOE and Blood Thirst..."

"Use a 2H back bar with WB and Brawler..."

Every stam DK problem has a weapon solution - and a weapon solution that is available to all stam classes, which means it isn't a solution at all.

What they don't listen to, or just won't hear, are the complaints that no mater how great or bad a stam DK might be it is frustrating that we don't get to use class skills.

"In that case, just use traps..."

Yeah... still not a DK skill is it.

Twohothardware

Yeah the entire problem with the StamDK is it has no offensive class skills beyond a couple of low damage DoT's. It has no execute, it has no class spammable, it has no real AoE damage, and it has no strong sustain skill that are available on other classes like Siphoning Attacks, Dark Deal, or Repentance.

LorDrek

DK need rebalance, upgrade passives, give igneus weapons armor penetration (only caster), change cauterize to poison of oblivions, give mee poisonn standart.

cpuScientist

I would like to make clear, that I am looking at this from a PVE perspective. From a PvP perspective, stamDK in a lot of ways feels like a gimped stamSorc.

Jjitsuboy98

cpuScientist wrote: »

I would like to make clear, that I am looking at this from a PVE perspective. From a PvP perspective, stamDK in a lot of ways feels like a gimped stamSorc.

No way is it a gimped stam sorc.

Anti_Virus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

I just wanna input, DoTs aren't killing people in Pvp, but they do apply pressure and concurrent damage(timing your burst with multiple dot ticks) is very strong when used properly. A 10k DB is a joke, but add a 2k claw crit and 1.2k noxious/trap beast crit and animation canceled light attack and you're at 14-15k burst.

This is exactly what I'm talking about people like you look at one spectrum of play style from the sDK and claim its OP.

Not every stam dk uses proc sets, trap beast, heavy armor etc. So should I be punished because these players are forced to run these skills to be effective?

You guys took away Ferocious leap from Stam DK and gave it to mDK although it didn't need it.

Again, I'm not saying Stam DK is OP, I'm saying its in a good enough place that we don't need to take away from mDK to augment Stam DK when there are bad class skills that can be reworked.

Oh ok I see.