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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508927/

Critical Surge and CP Placement

ADarklore
ADarklore
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I am just wondering if any CP placement effects Critical Surge, since the skill states it returns 3000 health every critical strike. If CPs don't help Crit Surge, is there any reason to put points into Quick Recovery if I don't use any other 'healing' ability other than Crit Surge? Right now I have 100 pts into QR, but I could use them elsewhere if they're not helping me.
Started ESO: May 2015-Quit: Sept 2018
PC-NA AD
Champion Points: 1004
ESO+
Morrowind/Summerset
** Strictly a solo PvE quester **
  • Lord_Wrath
    Lord_Wrath
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    As a magsorc ive tried putting points into it for healing ward but the bonus just wasn't worth it. Can you tell us more about your build?
    1000+ CP | Lørd Wrath | - Sorcerer - Praetorian - Grand Master Crafter - 29000 Achievement Points
    Launch Player - PC - NA - EP
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    Why do you need to know my build? The question is simple, do any CP's impact Critical Surge's flat-rate heals or not?
    Started ESO: May 2015-Quit: Sept 2018
    PC-NA AD
    Champion Points: 1004
    ESO+
    Morrowind/Summerset
    ** Strictly a solo PvE quester **
  • datgladiatah
    datgladiatah
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    Blessed would probably work as well, just like nb self heals.
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    I was reading one of Deltia's Stam Sorc builds, and he stated that Critical Surge benefits from healing-oriented CP's including Quick Recovery.
    Started ESO: May 2015-Quit: Sept 2018
    PC-NA AD
    Champion Points: 1004
    ESO+
    Morrowind/Summerset
    ** Strictly a solo PvE quester **
  • Tremors
    Tremors
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    Yes CP affects surge.
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Quick Recovery, Blessed and either Elfborn or Precise Strikes.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #MidnightSlayers
    #MoreDPSthanYou #ImmortalRedeemerOnStamblade
    #Stamblade
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    I am just wondering if any CP placement effects Critical Surge, since the skill states it returns 3000 health every critical strike. If CPs don't help Crit Surge, is there any reason to put points into Quick Recovery if I don't use any other 'healing' ability other than Crit Surge? Right now I have 100 pts into QR, but I could use them elsewhere if they're not helping me.

    Crit Surge is a magicka spell, therefore any healing that occurs from this is buffed by healing done, healing received, and Elfborn. It does not matter which morph of the skill you have, as both the stam and magicka versions are magicka spells. It does not function like Vigor, which costs stamina, in that Precise Strikes will afford stronger crit heals - in this case it is Elfborn. Blessed and Quick Recovery both will increase the amount of health restored by Surge as well.

    Surge is rather unique in that it doesn't scale with max stats or weapon/spell damage. It is actually only buffed by set bonuses that afford higher healing done/received and CP.
    Edited by Autolycus on February 27, 2017 7:09PM
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    I am just wondering if any CP placement effects Critical Surge, since the skill states it returns 3000 health every critical strike. If CPs don't help Crit Surge, is there any reason to put points into Quick Recovery if I don't use any other 'healing' ability other than Crit Surge? Right now I have 100 pts into QR, but I could use them elsewhere if they're not helping me.

    Crit Surge is a spell, therefore any healing that occurs from this is buffed by healing done, healing received, and Elfborn. It does not matter which morph of the skill you have, as both the stam and magicka versions are a spell. It does not function like Vigor, in that Precise Strikes will afford stronger crit heals - in this case it is Elfborn. Blessed and Quick Recovery both will increase the amount of health restored by Surge as well.

    Surge is rather unique in that it doesn't scale with max stats or weapon/spell damage. It is actually only buffed by set bonuses that afford higher healing done/received and CP.

    Wouldn't it scale off highest stat though? I mean if it only scales off Elfborn, then it would also scale with spell crit. However, on the stam sorc, the amount of crit heals you recieve is pretty high, too high, for it to scale off solely spell crit. I could be wrong, just wondering
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #MidnightSlayers
    #MoreDPSthanYou #ImmortalRedeemerOnStamblade
    #Stamblade
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    I am just wondering if any CP placement effects Critical Surge, since the skill states it returns 3000 health every critical strike. If CPs don't help Crit Surge, is there any reason to put points into Quick Recovery if I don't use any other 'healing' ability other than Crit Surge? Right now I have 100 pts into QR, but I could use them elsewhere if they're not helping me.

    Crit Surge is a spell, therefore any healing that occurs from this is buffed by healing done, healing received, and Elfborn. It does not matter which morph of the skill you have, as both the stam and magicka versions are a spell. It does not function like Vigor, in that Precise Strikes will afford stronger crit heals - in this case it is Elfborn. Blessed and Quick Recovery both will increase the amount of health restored by Surge as well.

    Surge is rather unique in that it doesn't scale with max stats or weapon/spell damage. It is actually only buffed by set bonuses that afford higher healing done/received and CP.

    Wouldn't it scale off highest stat though? I mean if it only scales off Elfborn, then it would also scale with spell crit. However, on the stam sorc, the amount of crit heals you recieve is pretty high, too high, for it to scale off solely spell crit. I could be wrong, just wondering

    How frequently it occurs is based upon the crit chance of the skill that procs it. So lets say that Boundless Storm is what procs it - the chance for Boundless Storm to crit is based on your spell crit. With Hurricane, whether or not (and how frequently) it crits is based on your weapon crit. Either of these skills can proc Surge, though their chance to do so are each determined by a different stat.

    Surge only cares that a crit occurs, not how often (as it is already limited to once per second), and not which type of crit results in the proc. We also already know that Elfborn doesn't increase your chance to crit, it only boosts the effectiveness of crits when they occur - but specifically for spell crits, with Precise Strikes being its stamina counterpart. Surge itself is a magicka spell, regardless of morph (in other words, healing resulting from a magicka spell). If Surge crits on the heal, then it is healing resulting from a spell critical, and therefore buffed by Elfborn.

    I hope I did an okay job at explaining this. I tested it quite bit and picked a few brains to make sure I was right, but there is always a chance I missed something, so if you discover something I haven't, please let me know. The purpose of my digging into this was to ascertain which CP allocation would best suit a Sorc tank, because certain morphs befit tanking that do not befit dps as well.

    In my case, I want to use Boundless Storm for the increased duration on Major Ward/Resolve, and Crit Surge because the heal is stronger, but the build is almost entirely stam-based. It only makes sense to put points into Elfborn for tanking if it's your only source of healing, or if you are entirely magicka-based. A stam sorc tank using Vigor would face a high opportunity cost for going into Elfborn, when a fraction of those points into Precise Strikes to boost Vigor would be far more bang-for-buck (as it scales with stamina and WD, and has no cast time, can be block cast, etc.). This is almost a separate discussion at this point, but I'd also point out there are often other factors to consider, such as if one is using the Master's Sword that heals on Puncture - this one is boosted by Precise Srikes too. The more of these there are, the less sense it makes to go into Elfborn.
    Edited by Autolycus on February 27, 2017 7:53PM
  • gp1680
    gp1680
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    Autolycus wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    I am just wondering if any CP placement effects Critical Surge, since the skill states it returns 3000 health every critical strike. If CPs don't help Crit Surge, is there any reason to put points into Quick Recovery if I don't use any other 'healing' ability other than Crit Surge? Right now I have 100 pts into QR, but I could use them elsewhere if they're not helping me.

    Crit Surge is a spell, therefore any healing that occurs from this is buffed by healing done, healing received, and Elfborn. It does not matter which morph of the skill you have, as both the stam and magicka versions are a spell. It does not function like Vigor, in that Precise Strikes will afford stronger crit heals - in this case it is Elfborn. Blessed and Quick Recovery both will increase the amount of health restored by Surge as well.

    Surge is rather unique in that it doesn't scale with max stats or weapon/spell damage. It is actually only buffed by set bonuses that afford higher healing done/received and CP.

    Wouldn't it scale off highest stat though? I mean if it only scales off Elfborn, then it would also scale with spell crit. However, on the stam sorc, the amount of crit heals you recieve is pretty high, too high, for it to scale off solely spell crit. I could be wrong, just wondering

    How frequently it occurs is based upon the crit chance of the skill that procs it. So lets say that Boundless Storm is what procs it - the chance for Boundless Storm to crit is based on your spell crit. With Hurricane, whether or not (and how frequently) it crits is based on your weapon crit. Either of these skills can proc Surge, though their chance to do so are each determined by a different stat.

    Surge only cares that a crit occurs, not how often (as it is already limited to once per second), and not which type of crit results in the proc. We also already know that Elfborn doesn't increase your chance to crit, it only boosts the effectiveness of crits when they occur - but specifically for spell crits, with Precise Strikes being its stamina counterpart. Surge itself is a magicka spell, regardless of morph (in other words, healing resulting from a magicka spell). If Surge crits on the heal, then it is healing resulting from a spell critical, and therefore buffed by Elfborn.

    I hope I did an okay job at explaining this. I tested it quite bit and picked a few brains to make sure I was right, but there is always a chance I missed something, so if you discover something I haven't, please let me know. The purpose of my digging into this was to ascertain which CP allocation would best suit a Sorc tank, because certain morphs befit tanking that do not befit dps as well.

    In my case, I want to use Boundless Storm for the increased duration on Major Ward/Resolve, and Crit Surge because the heal is stronger, but the build is almost entirely stam-based. It only makes sense to put points into Elfborn for tanking if it's your only source of healing, or if you are entirely magicka-based. A stam sorc tank using Vigor would face a high opportunity cost for going into Elfborn, when a fraction of those points into Precise Strikes to boost Vigor would be far more bang-for-buck (as it scales with stamina and WD, and has no cast time, can be block cast, etc.). This is almost a separate discussion at this point, but I'd also point out there are often other factors to consider, such as if one is using the Master's Sword that heals on Puncture - this one is boosted by Precise Srikes too. The more of these there are, the less sense it makes to go into Elfborn.

    This is great info and has me now thinking...would Dark Deal (morph of Dark Exchange) become more effective with Elfborn then Precise Strikes, since it uses magicka?
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
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    gp1680 wrote: »
    Autolycus wrote: »
    Autolycus wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    I am just wondering if any CP placement effects Critical Surge, since the skill states it returns 3000 health every critical strike. If CPs don't help Crit Surge, is there any reason to put points into Quick Recovery if I don't use any other 'healing' ability other than Crit Surge? Right now I have 100 pts into QR, but I could use them elsewhere if they're not helping me.

    Crit Surge is a spell, therefore any healing that occurs from this is buffed by healing done, healing received, and Elfborn. It does not matter which morph of the skill you have, as both the stam and magicka versions are a spell. It does not function like Vigor, in that Precise Strikes will afford stronger crit heals - in this case it is Elfborn. Blessed and Quick Recovery both will increase the amount of health restored by Surge as well.

    Surge is rather unique in that it doesn't scale with max stats or weapon/spell damage. It is actually only buffed by set bonuses that afford higher healing done/received and CP.

    Wouldn't it scale off highest stat though? I mean if it only scales off Elfborn, then it would also scale with spell crit. However, on the stam sorc, the amount of crit heals you recieve is pretty high, too high, for it to scale off solely spell crit. I could be wrong, just wondering

    How frequently it occurs is based upon the crit chance of the skill that procs it. So lets say that Boundless Storm is what procs it - the chance for Boundless Storm to crit is based on your spell crit. With Hurricane, whether or not (and how frequently) it crits is based on your weapon crit. Either of these skills can proc Surge, though their chance to do so are each determined by a different stat.

    Surge only cares that a crit occurs, not how often (as it is already limited to once per second), and not which type of crit results in the proc. We also already know that Elfborn doesn't increase your chance to crit, it only boosts the effectiveness of crits when they occur - but specifically for spell crits, with Precise Strikes being its stamina counterpart. Surge itself is a magicka spell, regardless of morph (in other words, healing resulting from a magicka spell). If Surge crits on the heal, then it is healing resulting from a spell critical, and therefore buffed by Elfborn.

    I hope I did an okay job at explaining this. I tested it quite bit and picked a few brains to make sure I was right, but there is always a chance I missed something, so if you discover something I haven't, please let me know. The purpose of my digging into this was to ascertain which CP allocation would best suit a Sorc tank, because certain morphs befit tanking that do not befit dps as well.

    In my case, I want to use Boundless Storm for the increased duration on Major Ward/Resolve, and Crit Surge because the heal is stronger, but the build is almost entirely stam-based. It only makes sense to put points into Elfborn for tanking if it's your only source of healing, or if you are entirely magicka-based. A stam sorc tank using Vigor would face a high opportunity cost for going into Elfborn, when a fraction of those points into Precise Strikes to boost Vigor would be far more bang-for-buck (as it scales with stamina and WD, and has no cast time, can be block cast, etc.). This is almost a separate discussion at this point, but I'd also point out there are often other factors to consider, such as if one is using the Master's Sword that heals on Puncture - this one is boosted by Precise Srikes too. The more of these there are, the less sense it makes to go into Elfborn.

    This is great info and has me now thinking...would Dark Deal (morph of Dark Exchange) become more effective with Elfborn then Precise Strikes, since it uses magicka?

    If the heal could crit, then probably. Since Elfborn only affects those healing and damage spell criticals, and Dark Exchange cannot crit, it doesn't work at all, and the same goes for Precise Strikes. Blessed and Quick Recovery would boost either morph, however.
  • squshy7
    squshy7
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    Sorry to bump a slightly old thread, but I went back through some patch notes, and the heal of crit surge appears to critically heal based on whatever your highest critical rating is, either spell or wep critical.

    Which begs the question...Which CP affects its critical heals. Is it amorphous, in that if you happen to have a higher spell crit rating, then elf born is applicable, and vice versa?

    Hard to test, but I'll try at some point
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