Rapid strikes bug or intended?

sly007

After the homestead update, the game does not consider rapid strikes a melee attack. Is this intended or is it a bug? I tested it with armor sets that proc when dealing melee damage. Viper and ravaging armor sets did not proc. I have yet to test if the Orc Passive increases rapid strikes's damage.

Skullstachio

I am pretty sure @paulsimonps may be able to clarify this for you @sly007 as he knows a fair bit about how flurry & its morphs work mechanic wise.

Izaki

Yeah it was like that for a while. The Axe bleed doesn't proc either. Its a bug for sure... Just like Path of Darkness not scaling with Thaumaturge.

Waffennacht

I don't think DoTs are considered melee

sly007

It's a shame it's [not] considered a melee attack but jabs is a melee attack.

danno8

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't think DoTs are considered melee

Anything 8m or less range is considered "melee" in this game and should proc any melee related set bonuses. Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps for example are 8m, considered DoT's and are considered melee.

sly007

danno8 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't think DoTs are considered melee

Anything 8m or less range is considered "melee" in this game and should proc any melee related set bonuses. Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps for example are 8m, considered DoT's and are considered melee.

That is why I am confused as to why rapid strikes is not a melee attack. I understand it is D.o.t damage but it should be melee as well. The attack is literally about stabbing your target with a dual wield weapon.

Vapirko

Old thread but I want to know this too. Why doesn't rapid strikes proc ravagers. Stam sorcs/DKs are supposed to really only on light and heavy attacks for an 8% proc chance?

GrumpyDuckling

Vapirko wrote: »

Old thread but I want to know this too. Why doesn't rapid strikes proc ravagers. Stam sorcs/DKs are supposed to really only on light and heavy attacks for an 8% proc chance?

Agreed. I would also like to know if this was an oversight, ZOS.

anathosdm

It does proc viper. But not ravager indeed

wretch200

I do not have an issue with this since I use Red Mountain on my Nightblade with this. However, I can see the frustration it would cause.

GeorgeBlack

Fix plz

Bladerunner1

Yeah I noticed a couple weeks ago that the Ravager set really only synergizes with two handed abilities and a handful of class skills.

danno8 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't think DoTs are considered melee

Anything 8m or less range is considered "melee" in this game and should proc any melee related set bonuses. Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps for example are 8m, considered DoT's and are considered melee.

That's interesting, just learned something. This explains why nightblades can get it to proc with power extraction, yet steel tornado doesn't proc the set.

LegacyDM

sly007 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't think DoTs are considered melee

Anything 8m or less range is considered "melee" in this game and should proc any melee related set bonuses. Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps for example are 8m, considered DoT's and are considered melee.

That is why I am confused as to why rapid strikes is not a melee attack. I understand it is D.o.t damage but it should be melee as well. The attack is literally about stabbing your target with a dual wield weapon.

Because if it was melee it would benifit from the imperial red diamond passive making it massively op.

Chilly-McFreeze

LegacyDM wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't think DoTs are considered melee

Anything 8m or less range is considered "melee" in this game and should proc any melee related set bonuses. Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps for example are 8m, considered DoT's and are considered melee.

That is why I am confused as to why rapid strikes is not a melee attack. I understand it is D.o.t damage but it should be melee as well. The attack is literally about stabbing your target with a dual wield weapon.

Because if it was melee it would benifit from the imperial red diamond passive making it massively op.

Then change how it interacts with the passive instead of screwing everyone else over?

Gilliamtherogue

LegacyDM wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't think DoTs are considered melee

Anything 8m or less range is considered "melee" in this game and should proc any melee related set bonuses. Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweeps for example are 8m, considered DoT's and are considered melee.

That is why I am confused as to why rapid strikes is not a melee attack. I understand it is D.o.t damage but it should be melee as well. The attack is literally about stabbing your target with a dual wield weapon.

Because if it was melee it would benifit from the imperial red diamond passive making it massively op.

The passive is booty as is, it could use a buff.

Chilly-McFreeze

@Gilliamtherogue @sly007 @LegacyDM

I think they changed at least a bit about what Flurry and Bloodthirst are considered.

I just tested if Flurry and Bloodthirst proc Viper (Your melee attacks deal X poison damage), Ravager (When you deal melee damage,...)and Twin Blade and Blunt bleed (each axe gives your melee attacks...). All of this procs on melee damage while for the last time Flurry wasn't considered melee.

I can't try it out myself since I don't own the Imperial Edition but the Red Diamond tooltip says "Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 6% of your Max Health"

Yesterday I already did a test but I wasn't sure if Combat Metrics or any other Addon mistakes some other buff for "the Ravager" so I re-did it today on a cleaner field.
I used only the respective sets and some unenchanted, traitless, crafted swords so that nothing else could get in the mix. Remaining slots were empty. For TBaB I went without armor/ jewles with two traitless, unenchanted, crafted axes.

Ravager:

With Flurry




With Bloodthirst

On the respective first pic you see the difference in weapon dmg. So I think it's safe to say that at least Flurry procs Ravager now. I don't know why the difference with Bloodthirst doesn't match the Ravager tooltip. However, if I look at the character sheet the weapon damage is at 1310 instead of 1591. Maybe that's the cause for the numerical discepancy. I'm also unsure how it comes that at the Flurry test weapon damage was 1285.


Viper:

Viper clearly Procs on Flurry and on Bloodthirst.

Twin Blade And Blunt

At least Bloodthirst doesn't proc the bleeding passive.

So this is a bit contradictory. For the sets that proc on melee damage it is considered melee now, however I couldn't get it to proc the bleed from this.
I must have missed that in the latest patch notes or they simply didn't give notice. I haven't respeced yet so I couldn't test Rapid Strikes.
Could somebody with access to the Imperial race test if it procs Red Diamond now?

What Flurry and it's morphs are considered now is still inconsistent. Flurry procs melee sets but doesn't proc melee passives. What are you're thoughts? Did I tested it wrong or was it a stealth change?

danno8

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue @sly007 @LegacyDM

I think they changed at least a bit about what Flurry and Bloodthirst are considered.

I just tested if Flurry and Bloodthirst proc Viper (Your melee attacks deal X poison damage), Ravager (When you deal melee damage,...)and Twin Blade and Blunt bleed (each axe gives your melee attacks...). All of this procs on melee damage while for the last time Flurry wasn't considered melee.

I can't try it out myself since I don't own the Imperial Edition but the Red Diamond tooltip says "Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 6% of your Max Health"

Yesterday I already did a test but I wasn't sure if Combat Metrics or any other Addon mistakes some other buff for "the Ravager" so I re-did it today on a cleaner field.
I used only the respective sets and some unenchanted, traitless, crafted swords so that nothing else could get in the mix. Remaining slots were empty. For TBaB I went without armor/ jewles with two traitless, unenchanted, crafted axes.

Ravager:

With Flurry




With Bloodthirst

On the respective first pic you see the difference in weapon dmg. So I think it's safe to say that at least Flurry procs Ravager now. I don't know why the difference with Bloodthirst doesn't match the Ravager tooltip. However, if I look at the character sheet the weapon damage is at 1310 instead of 1591. Maybe that's the cause for the numerical discepancy. I'm also unsure how it comes that at the Flurry test weapon damage was 1285.


Viper:

Viper clearly Procs on Flurry and on Bloodthirst.

Twin Blade And Blunt

At least Bloodthirst doesn't proc the bleeding passive.

So this is a bit contradictory. For the sets that proc on melee damage it is considered melee now, however I couldn't get it to proc the bleed from this.
I must have missed that in the latest patch notes or they simply didn't give notice. I haven't respeced yet so I couldn't test Rapid Strikes.
Could somebody with access to the Imperial race test if it procs Red Diamond now?

What Flurry and it's morphs are considered now is still inconsistent. Flurry procs melee sets but doesn't proc melee passives. What are you're thoughts? Did I tested it wrong or was it a stealth change?

This unfortunately is par for the course for this game and ZoS. Skills and morphs, sometimes even levels of those skills (like Flurry 3, vs Flurry 4) will have inconsistencies between them.

Biting Jabs for example is a carbon copy of Puncturing Sweeps for Templar with different bonuses, but the way the skill works is exactly the same, however Biting Jabs was dodgeable for the longest time while PS was not. It was like 6 months or more before it was fixed.

I expect the same is happening here. It's all just oversight and missed coding.

Gilliamtherogue

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue @sly007 @LegacyDM

I think they changed at least a bit about what Flurry and Bloodthirst are considered.

I just tested if Flurry and Bloodthirst proc Viper (Your melee attacks deal X poison damage), Ravager (When you deal melee damage,...)and Twin Blade and Blunt bleed (each axe gives your melee attacks...). All of this procs on melee damage while for the last time Flurry wasn't considered melee.

I can't try it out myself since I don't own the Imperial Edition but the Red Diamond tooltip says "Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 6% of your Max Health"

Yesterday I already did a test but I wasn't sure if Combat Metrics or any other Addon mistakes some other buff for "the Ravager" so I re-did it today on a cleaner field.
I used only the respective sets and some unenchanted, traitless, crafted swords so that nothing else could get in the mix. Remaining slots were empty. For TBaB I went without armor/ jewles with two traitless, unenchanted, crafted axes.

Ravager:

With Flurry




With Bloodthirst

On the respective first pic you see the difference in weapon dmg. So I think it's safe to say that at least Flurry procs Ravager now. I don't know why the difference with Bloodthirst doesn't match the Ravager tooltip. However, if I look at the character sheet the weapon damage is at 1310 instead of 1591. Maybe that's the cause for the numerical discepancy. I'm also unsure how it comes that at the Flurry test weapon damage was 1285.


Viper:

Viper clearly Procs on Flurry and on Bloodthirst.

Twin Blade And Blunt

At least Bloodthirst doesn't proc the bleeding passive.

So this is a bit contradictory. For the sets that proc on melee damage it is considered melee now, however I couldn't get it to proc the bleed from this.
I must have missed that in the latest patch notes or they simply didn't give notice. I haven't respeced yet so I couldn't test Rapid Strikes.
Could somebody with access to the Imperial race test if it procs Red Diamond now?

What Flurry and it's morphs are considered now is still inconsistent. Flurry procs melee sets but doesn't proc melee passives. What are you're thoughts? Did I tested it wrong or was it a stealth change?

It's a calculation error that's been around with Flurry and morphs for ages. If using the ability in quick succession the final 3% bonus damage will not be added to the final hit and will count as a separate entity that does 1-200 damage. This hit is calculated as melee, and is why you can very rarely proc melee based attacks. Most addons will correct this and put it on the final hit.

MercTheMage

Doesn't proc selene either, which im pissed about.

JackSmirkingRevenge

necro.......feelsbadman