Rumored Warden skill line: Needed more variation?

cabbageub17_ESO

Not saying that the rumored skill lines are even accurate but assuming they are ... does anyone wish they'd gone a different direction with the Nature line? I wish instead of a primary healing line with some CC and debuff secondary traits to it they had gone with a primary CC and debuff primary with healing secondary traits. The line would still function as support but in a different way. Otherwise the line might seem just a bit like the Templar healing line with a different set of animations. I was hoping for something more like the Controller from the City of Heroes game. Just for added variation of game play.

cjthibs

ZoS confirmed those were accurate weeks ago.

Lynx7386

I just wish nature's grasp would've been an aoe root with vines tangling up the enemies' feet

cabbageub17_ESO

cjthibs wrote: »

ZoS confirmed those were accurate weeks ago.

I guess more precisely who knows what the morphs etc can do with this line and perhaps the way they appear now is more like a basic healing line. Perhaps when more info comes out this is less the case.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

I think the frost line will provide most of the crowd control and high survivability line

Nature line will be strong group healing, some utility, and buffs

The animal line will provide Stam ranged dps and group utility/buffs.

idk

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

ZoS confirmed those were accurate weeks ago.

I guess more precisely who knows what the morphs etc can do with this line and perhaps the way they appear now is more like a basic healing line. Perhaps when more info comes out this is less the case.

We do not know how effective the skills are, how they actually play out, but a good idea of the general scheme of things.

Based on the OP it seems as though he is not talking about variation but merely wanting something specific. Since we merely know the general design, we can only speculate how unique or not unique the lines will play out to be.

As for control, we have enough control in the game for how ESO is designed. Multiple classes with area CC and multiple classes with single target longer duration CC. At that, only the area CC is uses in 4 man dungeons and one trial. CC is not heavily needed in this game.

cabbageub17_ESO

No I mean a support healer that is more weighted to the support and less towards the outright heals. Hence more variation. I was suggesting one way to possibly do it. There are "passive" heals and stuns in a lot of the attacks in other class skills. Just suggesting it might be fun to lean more heavily on the "passive" heals that are less attacks and more out and out stronger debuffs.

Obviously we don't know the details but isn't the cold line more a tank line?

Isn't the idea for variety and not a narrow path of what is "needed"?

idk

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

No I mean a support healer that is more weighted to the support and less towards the outright heals. Hence more variation. I was suggesting one way to possibly do it. There are "passive" heals and stuns in a lot of the attacks in other class skills. Just suggesting it might be fun to lean more heavily on the "passive" heals that are less attacks and more out and out stronger debuffs.

Obviously we don't know the details but isn't the cold line more a tank line?

Isn't the idea for variety and not a narrow path of what is "needed"?

Healers are support in this game. They are not true pure healers. Stuns and the likes are really geared for PvP, virtually useless in PvE. No reason to have a line dedicated to that.

Healers in this game, regardless of PvE or PvP are support, buff debuff and the likes.

cabbageub17_ESO

That's my point. Try to make a skill line that makes them not useless in PVE. Something different.

idk

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

That's my point. Try to make a skill line that makes them not useless in PVE. Something different.

Healers are not useless in PvE. So your point does not seem clear.

cabbageub17_ESO

I didn't mean healers. I meant the the stuns and debuffs (you know the things you just said were nearly useless) . Make that the primary point of a skill line with the healing the secondary point. Just to get to the same place of "utility" through a different route.

idk

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

I didn't mean healers. I meant the the stuns and debuffs (you know the things you just said were nearly useless) . Make that the primary point of a skill line with the healing the secondary point. Just to get to the same place of "utility" through a different route.

Creating a skill does not make it useful. In general, stuns and CCs are not useful in trials by design.

minimally in dungeons and one trial are area CCs useful. It is the design of the game, not the design of the skills. PvP has the biggest use for stuns and CCs and that is pretty much due to PvP in general.

cabbageub17_ESO

Jeez are you gaslighting?

Yes they would be skills of a different type. It would require rethinking some game play (basically figuring out how to make the controls and debuffs stronger but not OP) and not just reskinning something already present. Something different. Perhaps not ideal for trials. Perhaps they could be if thought thru well enough. I offered the Controller from City of Heroes as an example of how something like that could work.

idk

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

Jeez are you gaslighting?

Yes they would be skills of a different type. It would require rethinking some game play (basically figuring out how to make the controls and debuffs stronger but not OP) and not just reskinning something already present. Something different. Perhaps not ideal for trials. Perhaps they could be if thought thru well enough. I offered the Controller from City of Heroes as an example of how something like that could work.

Sorry, I am out of this conversation. You talk in general term and spin your conversation in circles. Either you want something pushed to game play is a way you envision it or IDK, then you accuse me of gaslighting.

CYA, have a good day.

cabbageub17_ESO

Strange that I spin it in circles yet you only talk about how useful something could be in relation to how you think it could be applied to trials as they stand now. Sorry for suggesting that the game could (and should) expand how it is played and that that could be fun. If there were any circles talked in, it was in relation to your refusal even consider that some structural changes to skill sets could be a fun change.

Humatiel

Lets be realistic here, every trash mob in eso is essentially stack and burn. Why would we want to complicate what is already clean and simple?

Wifeaggro13

Humatiel wrote: »

Lets be realistic here, every trash mob in eso is essentially stack and burn. Why would we want to complicate what is already clean and simple?

because its boring and lacks any challenge

Kobiwan_shinobi

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I just wish nature's grasp would've been an aoe root with vines tangling up the enemies' feet

Sounds like Talons. We don't need 2 versions of Talons!

Humatiel

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Lets be realistic here, every trash mob in eso is essentially stack and burn. Why would we want to complicate what is already clean and simple?

because its boring and lacks any challenge

if we're using challenging and trash in the same sentence we have much bigger issues.

idk

Humatiel wrote: »

Lets be realistic here, every trash mob in eso is essentially stack and burn. Why would we want to complicate what is already clean and simple?

Thank you.

OP seems to want the warden to be designed for game-play that does not exist in ESO and wants ESO changed to meet this game-play. That is he only conclusion I can think he is trying to spin. Then he accuses me of gaslighting because I point out how what he wants is not needed.

cabbageub17_ESO

Maybe if it were a true aoe hold and not just an aoe root. Would have to adjust damage down and have a longer 2nd application immunity of course.

idk

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe if it were a true aoe hold and not just an aoe root. Would have to adjust damage down and have a longer 2nd application immunity of course.

What are you talking about? Seriously. a true aoe hold vs an aoe root? The AoE root truly holds the mobs in place. Very truly.

What you seem to be asking for is a waste if it is anything more than what we have in game ATM. Pointless conversation if that is the case.

Are you gaslighting us?

cabbageub17_ESO

Holds also prevent ranged attacks; roots just hold in place.

cabbageub17_ESO

I don't want to change ESO I want to add to it. Like they say they want to and in general seem to do. Why do you have such a narrow view of what could be fun and effective to play?

Lynx7386

Kobiwan_shinobi wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I just wish nature's grasp would've been an aoe root with vines tangling up the enemies' feet

Sounds like Talons. We don't need 2 versions of Talons!

We already have 2 versions of talons (sorc encase). As a tank, the warden could really use a similar ability, talons and encase are extremely useful for pve tanking.

idk

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

Holds also prevent ranged attacks; roots just hold in place.

Your saying a full CC. ESO has those but they are not needed other than trolling in PvP. Sorc has one and I think the NB CC does the same.

Your talking about the most useless skills in the game so adding more of them would be more useless.

More so, that most of the damage in this game is AoE so even designing the game to use such skills would be a train wreck. One needs to think of the full picture when contemplating these things.

cabbageub17_ESO

Useless .... to you. There's more than 1 way to play.

Taleof2Cities

ZOS has said the Warden best synergizes with an off-healer or off-tank role.

That would appear to suit your playstyle better, @cabbageub17_ESO ... even though your initial post refers the Warden as being more of a healing class.

We won't have a difinitive answer to the question, though, until we start PTS testing.

idk

cabbageub17_ESO wrote: »

Useless .... to you. There's more than 1 way to play.

Effective and something else.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

ZOS has said the Warden best synergizes with an off-healer or off-tank role.

That would appear to suit your playstyle better, @cabbageub17_ESO ... even though your initial post refers the Warden as being more of a healing class.

We won't have a difinitive answer to the question, though, until we start PTS testing.

I was glad to read that and look forward to it. Could be interesting and look forward to seeing how they play out.

cabbageub17_ESO

Cool. We'll see. I don't have a play style. I try to play different styles with different characters. Why I was hoping for an all newish style.

cabbageub17_ESO

There needs to be a term for someone who exists between the continuum of min/maxers and people who daydream about which NPC they'd like to marry.