DirectX 12 and/or Vulkan support?

Jeremiah87

Hey there,

I was wondering if we'll ever see a move to DirectX 12 and/or Vulkan in ESO. I remember some time back (about a year ago) this question was floating around and was answered as follows on one of the live streams:

Yes, we are planning on a DX12 upgrade and expect that this will give us a number of graphics performance improvements. We cannot provide an ETA at this time, but it is something we’re working towards.

Source:
wccftech.com/elder-scrolls-online-dx12-upgrade-ps4-7th-core-usage-performance-improvements/

As ESO performance is mainly bottlenecked by the CPU, moving to an API that makes better use of multi-core systems would alleviate a lot of performance issues in heavily populated areas (Main hub cities and Cyrodiil) where even high-end systems struggle to reach 60FPS. Any and all performance improvements are also needed since 1440p and 2160p(4k) Displays are becoming more common on the market and with consumers.

Are there enough people interested here to have ZOS give us a status update on this?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror

cjthibs

I would also like to know if this is the case.

dramsb14_ESO

+1
Anything to remove the bottleneck, or at least transfer some load to the other cores/threads or the GPU itself.

theivorykitty

I'd also really like to know this!

Doctordarkspawn

I'm hoping, this is done as a option and not a complete move where if you dont have this hardware, you dont play. The decision to do that in Thieves guild was stupid and this would be equally so.

Jeremiah87

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I'm hoping, this is done as a option and not a complete move where if you dont have this hardware, you dont play. The decision to do that in Thieves guild was stupid and this would be equally so.

I don't see how this would require a hard-switch to that API, just a launcher option to choose from would suffice. The games that are getting DX12 added after release via updates do it like that, see Deus EX: Human Mankind Divided, Total War - Warhammer, DOOM, etc.

alephthiago

I would love to see this happenning, should have been made dx12 since the beginning

WalkingLegacy

I would love to see how they plan to evolve the engine. DX12 would be very nice to see.

Probably won't be in for the lackluster 'expansion' from the reveal interviews I've read.

dramsb14_ESO

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

I would love to see how they plan to evolve the engine. DX12 would be very nice to see.

Probably won't be in for the lackluster 'expansion' from the reveal interviews I've read.

Correct, but if they are as serious about improving game performance as they have stated then you would think improvements such as this would get some traction.

SirAndy

I doubt we'll see any Vulcan support any time soon ...

jedtb16_ESO

it would be nice if the game engine made more use of the pair of expensive graphics cards i have...

Jeremiah87

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

it would be nice if the game engine made more use of the pair of expensive graphics cards i have...

Yeah in making the game use more CPU cores load on the GPU should increase as well so the previously untapped GPU resources can actually be used to it's full potential.

mesmerizedish

alephthiago wrote: »

I would love to see this happenning, should have been made dx12 since the beginning

That would have been quite the feat, seeing as DX12 wasn't even released until ESO was over a year old.

MisterJimothy

alephthiago wrote: »

I would love to see this happenning, should have been made dx12 since the beginning

Considering development of the game began a few years before DX11 even came out, and was released over a year before DX12, I think we'll give them a pass on this one....

raglau

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I'm hoping, this is done as a option and not a complete move where if you dont have this hardware, you dont play. The decision to do that in Thieves guild was stupid and this would be equally so.

It was done in TG because DX10 was no longer vendor supported, so ZOS could not reasonably be expected to support it either (ZOS actually continued to support DX10 a little bit past it being retired by Microsoft). DX10 hardware was also no longer supported by NVidia, not sure on AMD but likely not due to its age. People had 10 years to get off of DX10, it's not Microsoft's, Nvidia's or ZOS' fault if those people are just plain backward.

DX11 is supported by Microsoft until 2019 (standard 10 year Microsoft support lifecycle) so we can imagine ZOS will support it until then also.

Sylo78

I could be wrong but based on my little understanding a game cannot just be updated easily, if at all, to support directx 12. It would have to be programmed and built ground up for it.

Preyfar

Pibbles wrote: »

It was done in TG because DX10 was no longer vendor supported, so ZOS could not reasonably be expected to support it either (ZOS actually continued to support DX10 a little bit past it being retired by Microsoft). DX10 hardware was also no longer supported by NVidia, not sure on AMD but likely not due to its age. People had 10 years to get off of DX10, it's not Microsoft's, Nvidia's or ZOS' fault if those people are just plain backward.

DX10 never really took up the adoption DX11 did. DX10 compatibility exists mostly because of games that support DX11, but it never really had the uptick other versions did. DX10 was the redheaded Vista stepchild.

Jeremiah87

Sylo78 wrote: »

I could be wrong but based on my little understanding a game cannot just be updated easily, if at all, to support directx 12. It would have to be programmed and built ground up for it.

Yeah it's not as easy as simply just flipping a switch but it's something that already confirmed they're working on so here's to hoping they made some progress since the year old confirmation during the live stream.

raglau

Sylo78 wrote: »

I could be wrong but based on my little understanding a game cannot just be updated easily, if at all, to support directx 12. It would have to be programmed and built ground up for it.

Well, certainly the act of simply moving a game to DX12 will not in itself bring about much in the way of performance improvements.

In DX10 all rendering APIs must be called in a single thread. DX11 improved the multi-threading support but due to various technical constraints, rendering related loads are still largely completed in the game's main thread, this is why rendering tasks still do not take full advantage of multiple cores and hence are the main bottleneck in most games (ESO is not unique here).

DX12 has a proper multi-threaded renderer for games to utilise. However, the game will need recoding to be aware of this, otherwise it will still be squirting out 'stuff' in the same way it would if servicing a single-threaded renderer. This is done by calling a series of new objects, and clearly the app must be coded to be aware those objects now exist. Also, some activities that were previously handled by the driver are now handled by the game.

It's not a big deal but yes, the game will need to be recoded in some areas in order to correctly call the new API and take advantage of the enhanced capabilities provided.

Jeremiah87

Pibbles wrote: »

Sylo78 wrote: »

I could be wrong but based on my little understanding a game cannot just be updated easily, if at all, to support directx 12. It would have to be programmed and built ground up for it.

Well, certainly the act of simply moving a game to DX12 will not in itself bring about much in the way of performance improvements.

In DX10 all rendering APIs must be called in a single thread. DX11 improved the multi-threading support but due to various technical constraints, rendering related loads are still largely completed in the game's main thread, this is why rendering tasks still do not take full advantage of multiple cores and hence are the main bottleneck in most games (ESO is not unique here).

DX12 has a proper multi-threaded renderer for games to utilise. However, the game will need recoding to be aware of this, otherwise it will still be squirting out 'stuff' in the same way it would if servicing a single-threaded renderer. This is done by calling a series of new objects, and clearly the app must be coded to be aware those objects now exist. Also, some activities that were previously handled by the driver are now handled by the game.

It's not a big deal but yes, the game will need to be recoded in some areas in order to correctly call the new API and take advantage of the enhanced capabilities provided.

Nice summary! Thanks for giving us a small, understandable insight.

danno8

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

Sylo78 wrote: »

I could be wrong but based on my little understanding a game cannot just be updated easily, if at all, to support directx 12. It would have to be programmed and built ground up for it.

Yeah it's not as easy as simply just flipping a switch but it's something that already confirmed they're working on so here's to hoping they made some progress since the year old confirmation during the live stream.

You wouldn't happen to have a quote for that or some reference would you? I never heard they were officially working on it. At best just a "something we would like to do in the future" non-committal answer.

Arthmoor

I would love to see a Vulkan patch rather than one for DX12 if for no other reason than loosening Microsoft's stranglehold on these APIs.

Jeremiah87

danno8 wrote: »

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

Sylo78 wrote: »

I could be wrong but based on my little understanding a game cannot just be updated easily, if at all, to support directx 12. It would have to be programmed and built ground up for it.

Yeah it's not as easy as simply just flipping a switch but it's something that already confirmed they're working on so here's to hoping they made some progress since the year old confirmation during the live stream.

You wouldn't happen to have a quote for that or some reference would you? I never heard they were officially working on it. At best just a "something we would like to do in the future" non-committal answer.

I uh...I have the quote in my opening comment with a link to the article. Also if someone can dig up that stream they mention you can probably see/hear them talk about it.

Nijey

UP!
any news about directx 12 implementation??
ty

AzraelKrieg

None. And don't necro threads. We don't want the Worm Cult here as well

Jade1986

Wont be using it anyway because windows 10 is trash. Broke my system twice.

linuxhell

vulkan +1

criddlembb14_ESO

I understand dx 12 is a windows 10 requirement some of us balk at microsofts invasive software of windows 10 and are on windows 7 dx 12 is for windows 10 sytems only again a microsoft ludicrous policy.

ssorgatem

Dx12 would be silly, it's Windows10 and Xbox exclusive

Vulkan, on the other hand, works on all Windows versions, now also on OSX (through MoltenVK) and on PS4. And a DX12 Vulkan backend is in the works, so that it could be used on Xbox One too.

ssorgatem

BTW... I'm already running ESO on Vulkan, through DXVK.