Dual Wield Vs 2H

Gilvoth

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'm sure it's been asked before @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_ANYONE_ELSE, but is there a reason 2H weapons can't count for 2 pieces of a set? If this has been answered elsewhere, could someone please direct me to the explanation?
Having 11 "pieces" with a 2H weapon while Dual Wielding provides 12 seems unnecessarily limiting in build options.

2 hander does more damage then daggers do

Strider_Roshin

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

It would be different if the two handed weapons gave some substantial bonus over DW, but they really don't. Not enough to warrant losing a set piece. This is a flaw in the game design and should be corrected.

On what do you base the claim that there aren't sufficient offsets.

Right now common wisdom says for

PVP/burst needs 2h/bow is best Stan smh producer

For PVE-GROUP/sustain: DW/bow is best Stan smh producer.

Staves just gotsignificant uptic and already show strong playtime and results in trials.

That shows a balance, nothing best everywhere (except bow in both cases) everything best everywhere.

Also every single moment of PS play an llive play analysis and testing that went intoeery inglebalance chug ever made in the games couple years span... Every one... Was done with set bonus counts figured into that play.

So that's where I say "looks good, no evidence a global change is needed. "

So what's your evidence that bow and staves and 2h need a flat out boost?

2H either needs to count as a 2 piece or it needs to provide more raw damage. The fact that you say that the 2H's place is in PvP because it provides "burst" has just informed every experienced PvP player that you're clueless as to how the 2H performs in PvP.

Here's a simple math problem for you:

What's 15,000 X 0 = ?

The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP.

No, the 2H is garbage in every aspect of this game when compared to DW. The only two classes that should use the 2H are Nightblades, and Templars. The reason for this is because they're the only two classes that don't have a viable source of major brutality.

I would disagree with this, nbs and temps are the only ones with a class spammable that is better then dizzying swing. Again, it comes down to the skills and the damage they do, NOT the fact that you can't have 5/5/2. Two hander will suck regardless of the two set pieces.

The reason why these classes use the 2H is because they're obligated to due to needing major brutality, not because they use uppercut. Uppercut is complete trash.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

It would be different if the two handed weapons gave some substantial bonus over DW, but they really don't. Not enough to warrant losing a set piece. This is a flaw in the game design and should be corrected.

On what do you base the claim that there aren't sufficient offsets.

Right now common wisdom says for

PVP/burst needs 2h/bow is best Stan smh producer

For PVE-GROUP/sustain: DW/bow is best Stan smh producer.

Staves just gotsignificant uptic and already show strong playtime and results in trials.

That shows a balance, nothing best everywhere (except bow in both cases) everything best everywhere.

Also every single moment of PS play an llive play analysis and testing that went intoeery inglebalance chug ever made in the games couple years span... Every one... Was done with set bonus counts figured into that play.

So that's where I say "looks good, no evidence a global change is needed. "

So what's your evidence that bow and staves and 2h need a flat out boost?

2H either needs to count as a 2 piece or it needs to provide more raw damage. The fact that you say that the 2H's place is in PvP because it provides "burst" has just informed every experienced PvP player that you're clueless as to how the 2H performs in PvP.

Here's a simple math problem for you:

What's 15,000 X 0 = ?

The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP.

No, the 2H is garbage in every aspect of this game when compared to DW. The only two classes that should use the 2H are Nightblades, and Templars. The reason for this is because they're the only two classes that don't have a viable source of major brutality.

I would disagree with this, nbs and temps are the only ones with a class spammable that is better then dizzying swing. Again, it comes down to the skills and the damage they do, NOT the fact that you can't have 5/5/2. Two hander will suck regardless of the two set pieces.

The reason why these classes use the 2H is because they're obligated to due to needing major brutality, not because they use uppercut. Uppercut is complete trash.

I think you misunderstood my point. It doe not matter which skills you think are the reason that people use two-handers or not use two-handed, it is the fact it comes down to skills, not 5/5/2 vs not.

I have never supported uppercut and you don't need to tell me it is trash in PvE but in PvP, dizzying swing is amazing and you need to use it as a stamdk and a stamsorc, as they have no class spammable.

H4RDFOX

On top of heals/major brutality on one ability, and the executioner ability against enemies at 50% health, you also want the 2H to count as 2 pieces? 2H abilities are already over-performing in PvP, it does not need a change to count for a 2 piece. That's supported with the many clones in pvp running 2h/bow builds. The logic of two hands holding onto it counts as a two piece only makes sense if you count bracers/cops/boots all as two piece. Crit rush, dizzying swing too. Any thought considered to make a 2H a two piece is too much with what it currently offers.

STEVIL

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

It would be different if the two handed weapons gave some substantial bonus over DW, but they really don't. Not enough to warrant losing a set piece. This is a flaw in the game design and should be corrected.

On what do you base the claim that there aren't sufficient offsets.

Right now common wisdom says for

PVP/burst needs 2h/bow is best Stan smh producer

For PVE-GROUP/sustain: DW/bow is best Stan smh producer.

Staves just gotsignificant uptic and already show strong playtime and results in trials.

That shows a balance, nothing best everywhere (except bow in both cases) everything best everywhere.

Also every single moment of PS play an llive play analysis and testing that went intoeery inglebalance chug ever made in the games couple years span... Every one... Was done with set bonus counts figured into that play.

So that's where I say "looks good, no evidence a global change is needed. "

So what's your evidence that bow and staves and 2h need a flat out boost?

2H either needs to count as a 2 piece or it needs to provide more raw damage. The fact that you say that the 2H's place is in PvP because it provides "burst" has just informed every experienced PvP player that you're clueless as to how the 2H performs in PvP.

Here's a simple math problem for you:

What's 15,000 X 0 = ?

The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP.

No, the 2H is garbage in every aspect of this game when compared to DW. The only two classes that should use the 2H are Nightblades, and Templars. The reason for this is because they're the only two classes that don't have a viable source of major brutality.

Assertions, no matter how emphatic, are not evidence nor do they grow more significant when repeated.

You are one of the very few, not sure of any others, who have claimed 2h is that useless in PVP. many have posted and some of them "top" types from the hype measure to the strong position 2H/bow holds in PVP for busrt and damage.

So, now i will take your claims and the evidence you provide to back them up and add it to the list of things to consider and thus add to my collection of knowledge. Its by no means a balanced set ATM but who knows, that could change given time.

But frankly, if your position had been something a little more within the realm of reason, something like "2h PVP burst is overrated because..." as opposed to your oh-so-unconvincing "What's 15,000 X 0 = ? The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP." it would have been far more convincing.

i mean, if 2h burst was actually zero in PVP in fact, we would be seeing these forums spammed forever on how bad it is in PVP, stream after stream dedicated to it and seeing almost nowhere the positions that 2H/bow is strong for PVP put forth.

So, your own extremism in example undercuts your position's foundation.

But it adds to the list so... thanks for that.

15kx0=0 as evidence... yep, gotcha.

Thanks again @Strider_Roshin - you have been very helpful.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I use DW on front bar and 2H on back bar in PvP. I like the added damage and extra set pc from DW and rally from 2H. I know a lot of people like to roll 2H and bow and having poison injection but with the burst I have I don't really need poison injection as I already have an execute.

DW wins in PvE. DW and 2H are both feasible in PvP. Crit rush is a great gap closer and rally is pretty much a must for Stam players in PvP. Rending slashes is not to shabby in PvP fi you want a decent dot without having poison injection slotted (though obviously poison injection is better). The extra weapon damage and ability to have another 5 pc set in PvP is powerful as well.

It really comes down to play style. It's nothe even a question of min/maxing because I've seen players use either and be very succesful.

Strider_Roshin

STEVIL wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

It would be different if the two handed weapons gave some substantial bonus over DW, but they really don't. Not enough to warrant losing a set piece. This is a flaw in the game design and should be corrected.

On what do you base the claim that there aren't sufficient offsets.

Right now common wisdom says for

PVP/burst needs 2h/bow is best Stan smh producer

For PVE-GROUP/sustain: DW/bow is best Stan smh producer.

Staves just gotsignificant uptic and already show strong playtime and results in trials.

That shows a balance, nothing best everywhere (except bow in both cases) everything best everywhere.

Also every single moment of PS play an llive play analysis and testing that went intoeery inglebalance chug ever made in the games couple years span... Every one... Was done with set bonus counts figured into that play.

So that's where I say "looks good, no evidence a global change is needed. "

So what's your evidence that bow and staves and 2h need a flat out boost?

2H either needs to count as a 2 piece or it needs to provide more raw damage. The fact that you say that the 2H's place is in PvP because it provides "burst" has just informed every experienced PvP player that you're clueless as to how the 2H performs in PvP.

Here's a simple math problem for you:

What's 15,000 X 0 = ?

The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP.

No, the 2H is garbage in every aspect of this game when compared to DW. The only two classes that should use the 2H are Nightblades, and Templars. The reason for this is because they're the only two classes that don't have a viable source of major brutality.

Assertions, no matter how emphatic, are not evidence nor do they grow more significant when repeated.

You are one of the very few, not sure of any others, who have claimed 2h is that useless in PVP. many have posted and some of them "top" types from the hype measure to the strong position 2H/bow holds in PVP for busrt and damage.

So, now i will take your claims and the evidence you provide to back them up and add it to the list of things to consider and thus add to my collection of knowledge. Its by no means a balanced set ATM but who knows, that could change given time.

But frankly, if your position had been something a little more within the realm of reason, something like "2h PVP burst is overrated because..." as opposed to your oh-so-unconvincing "What's 15,000 X 0 = ? The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP." it would have been far more convincing.

i mean, if 2h burst was actually zero in PVP in fact, we would be seeing these forums spammed forever on how bad it is in PVP, stream after stream dedicated to it and seeing almost nowhere the positions that 2H/bow is strong for PVP put forth.

So, your own extremism in example undercuts your position's foundation.

But it adds to the list so... thanks for that.

15kx0=0 as evidence... yep, gotcha.

Thanks again @Strider_Roshin - you have been very helpful.

Allow me to explain then. The move uppercut is the spammable for the 2H skill line. It is what you were referring to when you mentioned the burst that comes from the 2H. This is why the move is bad: the wind up is so slow, you can continue with your normal rotation without ever being hit by your opponent using it. If you're Magicka, you can walk right through the person using the move, if you're stamina you can dodge the attack with minimal reaction time. It provides no burst because it doesn't hit. This move is only a viable option if you're attacking someone that isn't directly attacking you or if you're attacking an unskilled PvPer. Hence the equation 15,000 x 0 = 0

The equation was written out that way because even if the move can hit as hard as 15k, if it misses the total damage done equates to nothing. Also I feel bad for your professors. You talk a lot, but produce very little substance. I feel like you could be much more concise; which makes your responses more of a chore to read than informing.

Strider_Roshin

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I use DW on front bar and 2H on back bar in PvP. I like the added damage and extra set pc from DW and rally from 2H. I know a lot of people like to roll 2H and bow and having poison injection but with the burst I have I don't really need poison injection as I already have an execute.

DW wins in PvE. DW and 2H are both feasible in PvP. Crit rush is a great gap closer and rally is pretty much a must for Stam players in PvP. Rending slashes is not to shabby in PvP fi you want a decent dot without having poison injection slotted (though obviously poison injection is better). The extra weapon damage and ability to have another 5 pc set in PvP is powerful as well.

It really comes down to play style. It's nothe even a question of min/maxing because I've seen players use either and be very succesful.

That's the issue. Both are viable in PvP, but only DW is viable for PvE. That is what needs to be addressed. Do I think making 2H count as a 2 piece will remedy this? No, simply because flurry double dips from the champion system, and uppercut does not.

What I would like to see instead is have the 2H provide more raw weapon damage in order to compensate for this. It will also allow Stamplars, and stamblades to use their class spammable without a handicap. Because in this game's current state, everyone uses flurry; there is no uniqueness among stamina.

STEVIL

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

It would be different if the two handed weapons gave some substantial bonus over DW, but they really don't. Not enough to warrant losing a set piece. This is a flaw in the game design and should be corrected.

On what do you base the claim that there aren't sufficient offsets.

Right now common wisdom says for

PVP/burst needs 2h/bow is best Stan smh producer

For PVE-GROUP/sustain: DW/bow is best Stan smh producer.

Staves just gotsignificant uptic and already show strong playtime and results in trials.

That shows a balance, nothing best everywhere (except bow in both cases) everything best everywhere.

Also every single moment of PS play an llive play analysis and testing that went intoeery inglebalance chug ever made in the games couple years span... Every one... Was done with set bonus counts figured into that play.

So that's where I say "looks good, no evidence a global change is needed. "

So what's your evidence that bow and staves and 2h need a flat out boost?

2H either needs to count as a 2 piece or it needs to provide more raw damage. The fact that you say that the 2H's place is in PvP because it provides "burst" has just informed every experienced PvP player that you're clueless as to how the 2H performs in PvP.

Here's a simple math problem for you:

What's 15,000 X 0 = ?

The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP.

No, the 2H is garbage in every aspect of this game when compared to DW. The only two classes that should use the 2H are Nightblades, and Templars. The reason for this is because they're the only two classes that don't have a viable source of major brutality.

Assertions, no matter how emphatic, are not evidence nor do they grow more significant when repeated.

You are one of the very few, not sure of any others, who have claimed 2h is that useless in PVP. many have posted and some of them "top" types from the hype measure to the strong position 2H/bow holds in PVP for busrt and damage.

So, now i will take your claims and the evidence you provide to back them up and add it to the list of things to consider and thus add to my collection of knowledge. Its by no means a balanced set ATM but who knows, that could change given time.

But frankly, if your position had been something a little more within the realm of reason, something like "2h PVP burst is overrated because..." as opposed to your oh-so-unconvincing "What's 15,000 X 0 = ? The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP." it would have been far more convincing.

i mean, if 2h burst was actually zero in PVP in fact, we would be seeing these forums spammed forever on how bad it is in PVP, stream after stream dedicated to it and seeing almost nowhere the positions that 2H/bow is strong for PVP put forth.

So, your own extremism in example undercuts your position's foundation.

But it adds to the list so... thanks for that.

15kx0=0 as evidence... yep, gotcha.

Thanks again @Strider_Roshin - you have been very helpful.

Allow me to explain then. The move uppercut is the spammable for the 2H skill line. It is what you were referring to when you mentioned the burst that comes from the 2H. This is why the move is bad: the wind up is so slow, you can continue with your normal rotation without ever being hit by your opponent using it. If you're Magicka, you can walk right through the person using the move, if you're stamina you can dodge the attack with minimal reaction time. It provides no burst because it doesn't hit. This move is only a viable option if you're attacking someone that isn't directly attacking you or if you're attacking an unskilled PvPer. Hence the equation 15,000 x 0 = 0

The equation was written out that way because even if the move can hit as hard as 15k, if it misses the total damage done equates to nothing. Also I feel bad for your professors. You talk a lot, but produce very little substance. I feel like you could be much more concise; which makes your responses more of a chore to read than informing.

Its my understanding that some of the upper-level players when using hvy hit attacks like it or even frags - things avoidable by one means or another - sometimes manage somehow to use them against opponents delayed slightly, like say by momentary cc effects.

i seem to recall that one of the primary keys to PVP has been mentioned as arranging or coordinating key cc timing with attacks.

But clearly since that is totally and completely impossible for aome people... 15kx0 according to you - then i guess they might all be wrong in some cases.

But i note you have switched from discussion of zero 2H burst damage to discussion of spammable.

i didn't think burst and spammable were synonymous? i mean, spammable is more often used in discussions of sustain DPS, aren't they?

i thought burst was usually achieved by a quick combo of successive hits/abilities and not spamming one attack over and over.

So why you focused on dismissing 2H burst entirely down to zero cuz you have trouble making their spammable land seems odd to me?

IIRC some folks seem to have gotten use out of say something like the following type of burst combos:
Rally etc, ambush, uppercut/morph-LA-AC combo, 2H ulti LA-AC, 2H execute type of combos. That would only use the uppercut once though obviously if a better class spammable was there it could be subbed in. they seemed to think the brief cc and the quick Ac cancelled series would produce good burst. ta least if i recall it right.

Quick edit add - it might have been ambush-incapstk-uppercut/morph-execute/morph weaves instead... too logn agao to be sure.

IIRC one of the factors that made it appealing was the combo of the ulti being noty-mitigated by armor even thought its base damage is low and the execute beginning to kick in at 50% health. But i am could have sworn i have seen repeated references to 2H-pvp-burst in a positive way from experience PVP players quite often.

But hey maybe they all aren't as good as you or i am remembering it wrong.

Very glad to hear the detailed analysis from you.

Thanks again for educating me.

It is just so very helpful.

Now two other questions if you have the time:

Since bow is prominently featured on the top stam builds for its contribution to DPS, typically DW/bow and 2H/bow are considered better than say 2H/2H or DW/DW isn't giving bow a boost imbalancing rather than balancing? or are they wrong about how good 2H/bow and DW/bow are too?

Since staves seem to do very well in group end game content, wouldn't giving staves a boost set be more imbalancing than balancing?
or are the purported results about staves in PVE group/trials/solo also wrong even with the boosts from homestead?

Thanks again.

Xecil

twoHandedSetCount = 2;
oneHandedSetCount = 1;

fixed

exeeter702

STEVIL wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

It would be different if the two handed weapons gave some substantial bonus over DW, but they really don't. Not enough to warrant losing a set piece. This is a flaw in the game design and should be corrected.

On what do you base the claim that there aren't sufficient offsets.

Right now common wisdom says for

PVP/burst needs 2h/bow is best Stan smh producer

For PVE-GROUP/sustain: DW/bow is best Stan smh producer.

Staves just gotsignificant uptic and already show strong playtime and results in trials.

That shows a balance, nothing best everywhere (except bow in both cases) everything best everywhere.

Also every single moment of PS play an llive play analysis and testing that went intoeery inglebalance chug ever made in the games couple years span... Every one... Was done with set bonus counts figured into that play.

So that's where I say "looks good, no evidence a global change is needed. "

So what's your evidence that bow and staves and 2h need a flat out boost?

2H either needs to count as a 2 piece or it needs to provide more raw damage. The fact that you say that the 2H's place is in PvP because it provides "burst" has just informed every experienced PvP player that you're clueless as to how the 2H performs in PvP.

Here's a simple math problem for you:

What's 15,000 X 0 = ?

The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP.

No, the 2H is garbage in every aspect of this game when compared to DW. The only two classes that should use the 2H are Nightblades, and Templars. The reason for this is because they're the only two classes that don't have a viable source of major brutality.

Assertions, no matter how emphatic, are not evidence nor do they grow more significant when repeated.

You are one of the very few, not sure of any others, who have claimed 2h is that useless in PVP. many have posted and some of them "top" types from the hype measure to the strong position 2H/bow holds in PVP for busrt and damage.

So, now i will take your claims and the evidence you provide to back them up and add it to the list of things to consider and thus add to my collection of knowledge. Its by no means a balanced set ATM but who knows, that could change given time.

But frankly, if your position had been something a little more within the realm of reason, something like "2h PVP burst is overrated because..." as opposed to your oh-so-unconvincing "What's 15,000 X 0 = ? The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP." it would have been far more convincing.

i mean, if 2h burst was actually zero in PVP in fact, we would be seeing these forums spammed forever on how bad it is in PVP, stream after stream dedicated to it and seeing almost nowhere the positions that 2H/bow is strong for PVP put forth.

So, your own extremism in example undercuts your position's foundation.

But it adds to the list so... thanks for that.

15kx0=0 as evidence... yep, gotcha.

Thanks again @Strider_Roshin - you have been very helpful.

Allow me to explain then. The move uppercut is the spammable for the 2H skill line. It is what you were referring to when you mentioned the burst that comes from the 2H. This is why the move is bad: the wind up is so slow, you can continue with your normal rotation without ever being hit by your opponent using it. If you're Magicka, you can walk right through the person using the move, if you're stamina you can dodge the attack with minimal reaction time. It provides no burst because it doesn't hit. This move is only a viable option if you're attacking someone that isn't directly attacking you or if you're attacking an unskilled PvPer. Hence the equation 15,000 x 0 = 0

The equation was written out that way because even if the move can hit as hard as 15k, if it misses the total damage done equates to nothing. Also I feel bad for your professors. You talk a lot, but produce very little substance. I feel like you could be much more concise; which makes your responses more of a chore to read than informing.

Its my understanding that some of the upper-level players when using hvy hit attacks like it or even frags - things avoidable by one means or another - sometimes manage somehow to use them against opponents delayed slightly, like say by momentary cc effects.

i seem to recall that one of the primary keys to PVP has been mentioned as arranging or coordinating key cc timing with attacks.

But clearly since that is totally and completely impossible for aome people... 15kx0 according to you - then i guess they might all be wrong in some cases.

But i note you have switched from discussion of zero 2H burst damage to discussion of spammable.

i didn't think burst and spammable were synonymous? i mean, spammable is more often used in discussions of sustain DPS, aren't they?

i thought burst was usually achieved by a quick combo of successive hits/abilities and not spamming one attack over and over.

So why you focused on dismissing 2H burst entirely down to zero cuz you have trouble making their spammable land seems odd to me?

IIRC some folks seem to have gotten use out of say something like the following type of burst combos:
Rally etc, ambush, uppercut/morph-LA-AC combo, 2H ulti LA-AC, 2H execute type of combos. That would only use the uppercut once though obviously if a better class spammable was there it could be subbed in. they seemed to think the brief cc and the quick Ac cancelled series would produce good burst. ta least if i recall it right.

Quick edit add - it might have been ambush-incapstk-uppercut/morph-execute/morph weaves instead... too logn agao to be sure.

IIRC one of the factors that made it appealing was the combo of the ulti being noty-mitigated by armor even thought its base damage is low and the execute beginning to kick in at 50% health. But i am could have sworn i have seen repeated references to 2H-pvp-burst in a positive way from experience PVP players quite often.

But hey maybe they all aren't as good as you or i am remembering it wrong.

Very glad to hear the detailed analysis from you.

Thanks again for educating me.

It is just so very helpful.

Now two other questions if you have the time:

Since bow is prominently featured on the top stam builds for its contribution to DPS, typically DW/bow and 2H/bow are considered better than say 2H/2H or DW/DW isn't giving bow a boost imbalancing rather than balancing? or are they wrong about how good 2H/bow and DW/bow are too?

Since staves seem to do very well in group end game content, wouldn't giving staves a boost set be more imbalancing than balancing?
or are the purported results about staves in PVE group/trials/solo also wrong even with the boosts from homestead?

Thanks again.

You come off as the type of person that smells their own farts and compliments themslef on the quality of the odor.

STEVIL

exeeter702 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

It would be different if the two handed weapons gave some substantial bonus over DW, but they really don't. Not enough to warrant losing a set piece. This is a flaw in the game design and should be corrected.

On what do you base the claim that there aren't sufficient offsets.

Right now common wisdom says for

PVP/burst needs 2h/bow is best Stan smh producer

For PVE-GROUP/sustain: DW/bow is best Stan smh producer.

Staves just gotsignificant uptic and already show strong playtime and results in trials.

That shows a balance, nothing best everywhere (except bow in both cases) everything best everywhere.

Also every single moment of PS play an llive play analysis and testing that went intoeery inglebalance chug ever made in the games couple years span... Every one... Was done with set bonus counts figured into that play.

So that's where I say "looks good, no evidence a global change is needed. "

So what's your evidence that bow and staves and 2h need a flat out boost?

2H either needs to count as a 2 piece or it needs to provide more raw damage. The fact that you say that the 2H's place is in PvP because it provides "burst" has just informed every experienced PvP player that you're clueless as to how the 2H performs in PvP.

Here's a simple math problem for you:

What's 15,000 X 0 = ?

The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP.

No, the 2H is garbage in every aspect of this game when compared to DW. The only two classes that should use the 2H are Nightblades, and Templars. The reason for this is because they're the only two classes that don't have a viable source of major brutality.

Assertions, no matter how emphatic, are not evidence nor do they grow more significant when repeated.

You are one of the very few, not sure of any others, who have claimed 2h is that useless in PVP. many have posted and some of them "top" types from the hype measure to the strong position 2H/bow holds in PVP for busrt and damage.

So, now i will take your claims and the evidence you provide to back them up and add it to the list of things to consider and thus add to my collection of knowledge. Its by no means a balanced set ATM but who knows, that could change given time.

But frankly, if your position had been something a little more within the realm of reason, something like "2h PVP burst is overrated because..." as opposed to your oh-so-unconvincing "What's 15,000 X 0 = ? The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP." it would have been far more convincing.

i mean, if 2h burst was actually zero in PVP in fact, we would be seeing these forums spammed forever on how bad it is in PVP, stream after stream dedicated to it and seeing almost nowhere the positions that 2H/bow is strong for PVP put forth.

So, your own extremism in example undercuts your position's foundation.

But it adds to the list so... thanks for that.

15kx0=0 as evidence... yep, gotcha.

Thanks again @Strider_Roshin - you have been very helpful.

Allow me to explain then. The move uppercut is the spammable for the 2H skill line. It is what you were referring to when you mentioned the burst that comes from the 2H. This is why the move is bad: the wind up is so slow, you can continue with your normal rotation without ever being hit by your opponent using it. If you're Magicka, you can walk right through the person using the move, if you're stamina you can dodge the attack with minimal reaction time. It provides no burst because it doesn't hit. This move is only a viable option if you're attacking someone that isn't directly attacking you or if you're attacking an unskilled PvPer. Hence the equation 15,000 x 0 = 0

The equation was written out that way because even if the move can hit as hard as 15k, if it misses the total damage done equates to nothing. Also I feel bad for your professors. You talk a lot, but produce very little substance. I feel like you could be much more concise; which makes your responses more of a chore to read than informing.

Its my understanding that some of the upper-level players when using hvy hit attacks like it or even frags - things avoidable by one means or another - sometimes manage somehow to use them against opponents delayed slightly, like say by momentary cc effects.

i seem to recall that one of the primary keys to PVP has been mentioned as arranging or coordinating key cc timing with attacks.

But clearly since that is totally and completely impossible for aome people... 15kx0 according to you - then i guess they might all be wrong in some cases.

But i note you have switched from discussion of zero 2H burst damage to discussion of spammable.

i didn't think burst and spammable were synonymous? i mean, spammable is more often used in discussions of sustain DPS, aren't they?

i thought burst was usually achieved by a quick combo of successive hits/abilities and not spamming one attack over and over.

So why you focused on dismissing 2H burst entirely down to zero cuz you have trouble making their spammable land seems odd to me?

IIRC some folks seem to have gotten use out of say something like the following type of burst combos:
Rally etc, ambush, uppercut/morph-LA-AC combo, 2H ulti LA-AC, 2H execute type of combos. That would only use the uppercut once though obviously if a better class spammable was there it could be subbed in. they seemed to think the brief cc and the quick Ac cancelled series would produce good burst. ta least if i recall it right.

Quick edit add - it might have been ambush-incapstk-uppercut/morph-execute/morph weaves instead... too logn agao to be sure.

IIRC one of the factors that made it appealing was the combo of the ulti being noty-mitigated by armor even thought its base damage is low and the execute beginning to kick in at 50% health. But i am could have sworn i have seen repeated references to 2H-pvp-burst in a positive way from experience PVP players quite often.

But hey maybe they all aren't as good as you or i am remembering it wrong.

Very glad to hear the detailed analysis from you.

Thanks again for educating me.

It is just so very helpful.

Now two other questions if you have the time:

Since bow is prominently featured on the top stam builds for its contribution to DPS, typically DW/bow and 2H/bow are considered better than say 2H/2H or DW/DW isn't giving bow a boost imbalancing rather than balancing? or are they wrong about how good 2H/bow and DW/bow are too?

Since staves seem to do very well in group end game content, wouldn't giving staves a boost set be more imbalancing than balancing?
or are the purported results about staves in PVE group/trials/solo also wrong even with the boosts from homestead?

Thanks again.

You come off as the type of person that smells their own farts and compliments themslef on the quality of the odor.

You come off as one who makes posts that are just about deriding the other posters and not about the game or the topic.

And since you have never smelled my farts... you just don't know what you are missing.

:-)

exeeter702

STEVIL wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ookami007 wrote: »

It would be different if the two handed weapons gave some substantial bonus over DW, but they really don't. Not enough to warrant losing a set piece. This is a flaw in the game design and should be corrected.

On what do you base the claim that there aren't sufficient offsets.

Right now common wisdom says for

PVP/burst needs 2h/bow is best Stan smh producer

For PVE-GROUP/sustain: DW/bow is best Stan smh producer.

Staves just gotsignificant uptic and already show strong playtime and results in trials.

That shows a balance, nothing best everywhere (except bow in both cases) everything best everywhere.

Also every single moment of PS play an llive play analysis and testing that went intoeery inglebalance chug ever made in the games couple years span... Every one... Was done with set bonus counts figured into that play.

So that's where I say "looks good, no evidence a global change is needed. "

So what's your evidence that bow and staves and 2h need a flat out boost?

2H either needs to count as a 2 piece or it needs to provide more raw damage. The fact that you say that the 2H's place is in PvP because it provides "burst" has just informed every experienced PvP player that you're clueless as to how the 2H performs in PvP.

Here's a simple math problem for you:

What's 15,000 X 0 = ?

The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP.

No, the 2H is garbage in every aspect of this game when compared to DW. The only two classes that should use the 2H are Nightblades, and Templars. The reason for this is because they're the only two classes that don't have a viable source of major brutality.

Assertions, no matter how emphatic, are not evidence nor do they grow more significant when repeated.

You are one of the very few, not sure of any others, who have claimed 2h is that useless in PVP. many have posted and some of them "top" types from the hype measure to the strong position 2H/bow holds in PVP for busrt and damage.

So, now i will take your claims and the evidence you provide to back them up and add it to the list of things to consider and thus add to my collection of knowledge. Its by no means a balanced set ATM but who knows, that could change given time.

But frankly, if your position had been something a little more within the realm of reason, something like "2h PVP burst is overrated because..." as opposed to your oh-so-unconvincing "What's 15,000 X 0 = ? The answer to the question will tell you how much "burst" the 2H gives you in PvP." it would have been far more convincing.

i mean, if 2h burst was actually zero in PVP in fact, we would be seeing these forums spammed forever on how bad it is in PVP, stream after stream dedicated to it and seeing almost nowhere the positions that 2H/bow is strong for PVP put forth.

So, your own extremism in example undercuts your position's foundation.

But it adds to the list so... thanks for that.

15kx0=0 as evidence... yep, gotcha.

Thanks again @Strider_Roshin - you have been very helpful.

Allow me to explain then. The move uppercut is the spammable for the 2H skill line. It is what you were referring to when you mentioned the burst that comes from the 2H. This is why the move is bad: the wind up is so slow, you can continue with your normal rotation without ever being hit by your opponent using it. If you're Magicka, you can walk right through the person using the move, if you're stamina you can dodge the attack with minimal reaction time. It provides no burst because it doesn't hit. This move is only a viable option if you're attacking someone that isn't directly attacking you or if you're attacking an unskilled PvPer. Hence the equation 15,000 x 0 = 0

The equation was written out that way because even if the move can hit as hard as 15k, if it misses the total damage done equates to nothing. Also I feel bad for your professors. You talk a lot, but produce very little substance. I feel like you could be much more concise; which makes your responses more of a chore to read than informing.

Its my understanding that some of the upper-level players when using hvy hit attacks like it or even frags - things avoidable by one means or another - sometimes manage somehow to use them against opponents delayed slightly, like say by momentary cc effects.

i seem to recall that one of the primary keys to PVP has been mentioned as arranging or coordinating key cc timing with attacks.

But clearly since that is totally and completely impossible for aome people... 15kx0 according to you - then i guess they might all be wrong in some cases.

But i note you have switched from discussion of zero 2H burst damage to discussion of spammable.

i didn't think burst and spammable were synonymous? i mean, spammable is more often used in discussions of sustain DPS, aren't they?

i thought burst was usually achieved by a quick combo of successive hits/abilities and not spamming one attack over and over.

So why you focused on dismissing 2H burst entirely down to zero cuz you have trouble making their spammable land seems odd to me?

IIRC some folks seem to have gotten use out of say something like the following type of burst combos:
Rally etc, ambush, uppercut/morph-LA-AC combo, 2H ulti LA-AC, 2H execute type of combos. That would only use the uppercut once though obviously if a better class spammable was there it could be subbed in. they seemed to think the brief cc and the quick Ac cancelled series would produce good burst. ta least if i recall it right.

Quick edit add - it might have been ambush-incapstk-uppercut/morph-execute/morph weaves instead... too logn agao to be sure.

IIRC one of the factors that made it appealing was the combo of the ulti being noty-mitigated by armor even thought its base damage is low and the execute beginning to kick in at 50% health. But i am could have sworn i have seen repeated references to 2H-pvp-burst in a positive way from experience PVP players quite often.

But hey maybe they all aren't as good as you or i am remembering it wrong.

Very glad to hear the detailed analysis from you.

Thanks again for educating me.

It is just so very helpful.

Now two other questions if you have the time:

Since bow is prominently featured on the top stam builds for its contribution to DPS, typically DW/bow and 2H/bow are considered better than say 2H/2H or DW/DW isn't giving bow a boost imbalancing rather than balancing? or are they wrong about how good 2H/bow and DW/bow are too?

Since staves seem to do very well in group end game content, wouldn't giving staves a boost set be more imbalancing than balancing?
or are the purported results about staves in PVE group/trials/solo also wrong even with the boosts from homestead?

Thanks again.

You come off as the type of person that smells their own farts and compliments themslef on the quality of the odor.

You come off as one who makes posts that are just about deriding the other posters and not about the game or the topic.

And since you have never smelled my farts... you just don't know what you are missing.

:-)

K

usmcjdking

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

Triddle

Your set bonus is determined by the number of items of a particular set you are wearing. If you mouse over a set item, you'll see that it has a description of the bonuses down the bottom. On the left of each line, in brackets, it shows the number of items required to achieve a set bonus. When you have enough items on for a bonus, the text turns white, when you do not, it is gray.

For example consider the pictured jerkin of necropotence



Towards the lower-middle of the image, you'll see that this item is "PART OF THE NECROPOTENCE SET", and then you will see listed "(0/5 ITEMS)", showing that you have no necropotence items currently equipped.

As you equip more items, the count will increase. For example if you were to equip this jerkin, the count would reach one, and where previously it said "(0/5 ITEMS)" it would now say (1/5 ITEMS)". But notice, looking below this now, that one item is not enough to get a bonus from the necropotence set. The first bonus comes at two items, and then there are separate bonuses for equipping three, four, or five items.

As you equip more items, for each item equipped you get one (1) count towards your number of items equipped, since by definition the number of items belonging to a set equipped is the number of items belong to that set that you have equipped. So if you equip just one item of a set, you've equipped one (1) item from that set, and your count of items equipped from the set is one. If you equip two items from that set, you've equipped two (2) items from that set, and your count of items equipped from that set is two. The same logic applies as you continue to equip more items.

The trick with one and two handed weapons, is that each weapon is an item, so if you equip two weapons, you get one count towards for EACH of those weapons (think of it as you equip one weapon first, so you now have one piece equipped, now you separately equip another weapon, on it's own this would also only count for one piece equipped, but since you had already equipped the other weapon you're now up to two). If on the other hand you just equip one weapon (as you do when you use a two handed weapon) the process stops at one, since you don't equip a second weapon, you don't have the extra set item equipped to count for two pieces towards the set.

Gilvoth

2 hander does more damage then duel wield does.

clocksstoppe

DannyLV702 wrote: »

It comes down to simple math. A 2h is one, count it, one weapon.


Dual wield requires two, count it, two weapons.

And therefore 2h counts as one weapon because it is one weapon, and dual wield counts as two weapons, because they are two weapons.

Of course the dumb sheetposter is a console kid, no surprise here.

Strider_Roshin

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

2 hander does more damage then duel wield does.

Obviously, hence why BiS for DPS is the 2H

JinMori

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

2 hander does more damage then duel wield does.

No it doesn't. Less spell and weapon damage.

Gilvoth

in both PvP and PvE the damage that happens to the enemy is higher with a 2 handed weapon then it is with duel wield weapons.
it is seen in the damage indicators that eso has provided.

JinMori

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

in both PvP and PvE the damage that happens to the enemy is higher with a 2 handed weapon then it is with duel wield weapons.
it is seen in the damage indicators that eso has provided.

Not a single high end pve build runs 2H, should tell you something, Dw is superior in pure damage, better skills and more raw stats.

Vapirko

usmcjdking wrote: »

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

But then of course we run into the issue of 2H being viable in PvE for dps, but way OP in PvP.

Vapirko

JinMori wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

2 hander does more damage then duel wield does.

No it doesn't. Less spell and weapon damage.

Higher individual L and H attacks perhaps but damage over time is much lower.

Strider_Roshin

Vapirko wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

But then of course we run into the issue of 2H being viable in PvE for dps, but way OP in PvP.

It won't be way OP in PvP by making it a 2-piece lol.

Right now you can do Agility + 5 piece + monster set + Maelstrom/master 2H

If they made it a count as a 2-piece then you'll be giving up the 375 weapon damage, and 1400 stamina that's provided from agility, and Maelstrom/master 2H. I don't know too many 5 pieces that are going to outdo that combination. What making the 2H count as a 2-piece will do is allow people who don't have that master or Maelstrom weapon still have a solid build. It'll be a diversity buff, not a damage buff.

STEVIL

Vapirko wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

But then of course we run into the issue of 2H being viable in PvE for dps, but way OP in PvP.

Which means running 2H in PVP, running 2H in group pve and only one weapon line that nee

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

But then of course we run into the issue of 2H being viable in PvE for dps, but way OP in PvP.

It won't be way OP in PvP by making it a 2-piece lol.

Right now you can do Agility + 5 piece + monster set + Maelstrom/master 2H

If they made it a count as a 2-piece then you'll be giving up the 375 weapon damage, and 1400 stamina that's provided from agility, and Maelstrom/master 2H. I don't know too many 5 pieces that are going to outdo that combination. What making the 2H count as a 2-piece will do is allow people who don't have that master or Maelstrom weapon still have a solid build. It'll be a diversity buff, not a damage buff.

allowing more to use the same builds is not a diversity buff. Its a diversity de-buff.

Strider_Roshin

STEVIL wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

But then of course we run into the issue of 2H being viable in PvE for dps, but way OP in PvP.

Which means running 2H in PVP, running 2H in group pve and only one weapon line that nee

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

But then of course we run into the issue of 2H being viable in PvE for dps, but way OP in PvP.

It won't be way OP in PvP by making it a 2-piece lol.

Right now you can do Agility + 5 piece + monster set + Maelstrom/master 2H

If they made it a count as a 2-piece then you'll be giving up the 375 weapon damage, and 1400 stamina that's provided from agility, and Maelstrom/master 2H. I don't know too many 5 pieces that are going to outdo that combination. What making the 2H count as a 2-piece will do is allow people who don't have that master or Maelstrom weapon still have a solid build. It'll be a diversity buff, not a damage buff.

allowing more to use the same builds is not a diversity buff. Its a diversity de-buff.

No, it's a diversity buff. Going from every 2H user using the same jewelry set, and Maelstrom weapon to using a variation of 5 piece sets creates diversity. 2H users aren't going to build their characters the same way that every DW does since they're not DoT focused.

klowdy1

I agree, there should be some sort of OH item that can be equipped with 2H weapons in order to keep the sets balanced. Something like Lynx suggested would be a smart idea, but to keep the cries to a minimum, add no stats of any kind, just a set bonus.

Strider_Roshin

klowdy1 wrote: »

I agree, there should be some sort of OH item that can be equipped with 2H weapons in order to keep the sets balanced. Something like Lynx suggested would be a smart idea, but to keep the cries to a minimum, add no stats of any kind, just a set bonus.

Why not have a bracer that grants a little bit of defense? Nothing anywhere near as much as a shield, but maybe something like 660 spell, and physical resistance? DW will still be the king of damage, but it would make 2H users slightly more tougher.

STEVIL

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

But then of course we run into the issue of 2H being viable in PvE for dps, but way OP in PvP.

Which means running 2H in PVP, running 2H in group pve and only one weapon line that nee

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

What ZOS needs to do is add a secondary slot item to staves, bow and 2 hander. This requires very little work and effort and should honestly be able to even out the weapons lines.

Staves - a focus.
2 hander - knot/hilt.
Bow - quiver.

Just a few spitballed ideas

Staves - Change Ancient Knowledge passive back to reduced HA charge time.
Ice Focus - Decrease cost of blocking by 20% and the amount you can block by 30%, fully charged heavy attacks provide a shield worth 50% of your maximum hit points.
Fiery Focus - Increase single target damage by 5%. Increase all damage vs a burning target by 3%.
Thundering Focus - Increase AOE damage by 5%. Increase chance to apply status affects by 100%

2 hander - Change Heavy Weapons damage to increased HA damage.
Ceremonial Knot: Increase all damage by 5%. 20% chance on direct weapon attacks to cause the target to bleed for current HW bleed values.
Iron Hilt: 10% chance on direct hit to reduce a targets physical and spell resist by 3500 for 5 seconds.
Steel Guard: Increase mitigation by 6%. Successfully blocking an attack provides 1500 Physical and Spell resist, stacks up to 5 times.

Bow
Belt quiver - Light and heavy attacks will now do splash damage for 40% of their damage to up to 2 nearby targets.
Arrow rest - 33% chance on direct damage to ignore the targets armor.
Hammerhead - Direct Damage Critical Hits with a bow cause all bow attacks to do an 5% more damage for 5 seconds -

But then of course we run into the issue of 2H being viable in PvE for dps, but way OP in PvP.

It won't be way OP in PvP by making it a 2-piece lol.

Right now you can do Agility + 5 piece + monster set + Maelstrom/master 2H

If they made it a count as a 2-piece then you'll be giving up the 375 weapon damage, and 1400 stamina that's provided from agility, and Maelstrom/master 2H. I don't know too many 5 pieces that are going to outdo that combination. What making the 2H count as a 2-piece will do is allow people who don't have that master or Maelstrom weapon still have a solid build. It'll be a diversity buff, not a damage buff.

allowing more to use the same builds is not a diversity buff. Its a diversity de-buff.

No, it's a diversity buff. Going from every 2H user using the same jewelry set, and Maelstrom weapon to using a variation of 5 piece sets creates diversity. 2H users aren't going to build their characters the same way that every DW does since they're not DoT focused.

2h users are going to build for sustain dps for pve endgame since thats what the huff and puff is about - so the sets which provide those and support those will be used.

And again with the maelstrom weapons in your diversity argument.

once maelstrom weapons are in play, the set counts go out the window cuz maelstrom weapons tend to outperform normal set bonuses and they already take into account the weapon things.

The set count weapons thing is about non-maelstrom weapons.

And anybody that thinks a sustained dps build isn't going to also focus on DoT is... well - a bit off. DoT are essential for sustain DPS against bosses and mobs just like AoE are essential against mobs. The only difference is whether the DoT come from the weapon skill tree or some class skills tree or somewhere else.

For burst, 2H already has its place. the goal to also buy it top-level sustain DPS... so it can top both... is not a diversity push anymore than letting everyone play the same sets is.

And buffing bow which is already a key element of both the PVP and PVE stam damagers is out there.

The cruise to diversity does not float down the river of more sameness.

klowdy1

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

I agree, there should be some sort of OH item that can be equipped with 2H weapons in order to keep the sets balanced. Something like Lynx suggested would be a smart idea, but to keep the cries to a minimum, add no stats of any kind, just a set bonus.

Why not have a bracer that grants a little bit of defense? Nothing anywhere near as much as a shield, but maybe something like 660 spell, and physical resistance? DW will still be the king of damage, but it would make 2H users slightly more tougher.

Because the comment started with making it fair for set bonuses, and turned into giving more stats. 2H have double stats on them, there is no reason to give extra defense or offense, we just want set bonuses leveled out. I can foresee people complaining if 2Hs are given double set numbers, but if you add extra stats, the outcry would become forum rage.