Enchantments v Poisons - Making Player Made Poisons more Interesting (Outdated)

Avran_Sylt

TL:DR
Player made poison damage pales in comparison to that of enchantments, make them better by adding poison benefiting jewelry enchants, a new weapon trait, and a new set. similar to Torug's Pact and infused.


So I've been playing around with enchantments lately, running vMA with Torug's Pact on a Stamblade. I love the upfront damage of my enchants that allow me to proc heavy damage or additional effects with a 1.4 sec Internal cooldown (ICD) on small mobs (infused weps). I've been looking at weapon posions, as Torug's pact does effect the poison damage and ICD of the weapon poison (reducing its ICD by 1 second, 10 to 9 sec and increasing damage of all effects by 30%). However, I came to the conclusion that weapon poisons don't offer much more damage in comparison to enchantments, especially with enchantments that are buffed.

Let's take a look at a dual wield setup, using a glyph of prismatic onslaught, and a glyph of Disease damage. in comparison to a Damage Health Poison IX created with Nightshade, Nirnroot, and Fleshfly Larva. There will also be a calculation with a Glyph of Poison to count for the increased damage from prismatic onslaught.

Side note, Twin slashes in the dual wield tree procs the off hand enchantment on the first hit.

Prismatic Onslaught (ICD: 4 sec) 5067 Magic damage to Daedra
Befouled Weapon - Disease (ICD: 4 sec) 2534 Disease Damage

Procing twice each in a 10 second window on a daedra: 15,202 Damage, with no crits

Befouled Weapon (ICD: 4 sec) 2534 Disease Damage
Poisoned enchant (ICD: 4 sec) 2534 Poison Damage

Procing twice each in a 10 second window: 10,136 Damage, with no crits

Damage Health Poison IX
1266 Poison Damage per second for 4.5 seconds
822 Poison Damage per second for 6.4 seconds
10 second cooldown

Procing and causing damage: 10,957 Poison Damage, with no crits

Now, weapon poisons have a 20% chance to proc on light and heavy attacks, as well on some abilities, whereas enchantments have a 100% proc chance.

Overall weapon poisons do less damage, but are nearly equal in terms of total DPS, as it's something on the side to increase your damage marginally. However, with sets like Torug's pact, and the infused trait for weapons, there is a substantial gap.

Let's look at the above examples again, but with Infused weapons, and Torug's pact.

Prismatic Onslaught (ICD: 1.4 sec) 7904 Magic damage to Daedra
Befouled Weapon - Disease (ICD: 1.4 sec) 3952 Disease Damage

Procing four times each in a 10 second window on a daedra: 47,424 Damage, with no crits

Befouled Weapon (ICD: 1.4 sec) 3952 Disease Damage
Poisoned enchant (ICD: 1.4 sec) 3952 Poison Damage

Procing four times each in a 10 second window: 31,616 Damage, with no crits

Damage Health Poison IX
1645 Poison Damage per second for 4.5 seconds
1068 Poison Damage per second for 6.4 seconds
9 second cooldown

Procing once, dealing full damage, and a 1 second tick from another application of the poison: 16,950 Poison Damage, with no crits


Weapon poisons are really under-powered when it comes to buffing enchants with sets and weapon traits. So, what ways could poisons be made more interesting?

Adding Poison Jewelry enchantments:
Glyph of Poison Boost: Increases the duration of weapon poisons by 0.5 seconds (this is at gold tier level)
Glyph of Poison Speed: Decreases the cool down of weapon poison application by 0.6 seconds (this is at gold tier level)

Adding in a new weapon trait:
Serrated Trait: Increases weapon poison potency by 16% - 22% - 28% - 34% - 40% (two handed weapon) 8% - 11% - 14% - 17% - 20% (one handed weapon)
Increases chance to apply a weapon poison by 30% (two handed weapon) 15% (one handed weapon)

Adding in a new Craftable armor set:
Potent Venom Set:
(2 Items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 Items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 Items) Adds 1935 Physical Resistance
(5 Items) Increase the duration of your weapon poisons by 1 second, reduce Poison cool-down by 1 seconds and Increase Poison Potency by 50%.

Let's take a look at the damage Health Poison IX with the Potent Venom Set, and the full bonus of the Serrated Trait:

Damage Health Poison IX
2658 Poison Damage per second for 5.5 seconds
1726 Poison Damage per second for 7.4 seconds
9 second cooldown

Procing once, dealing full damage, and 1 second tick from another application of the poison: 31,778 Poison Damage. with no Crits

From that setup, you achieve nearly the same damage as a Torug's pact Infused weapon enchantment user (excluding the prismatic onslaught version)

The reason I've not accounted for the Jewelry enchantments is I find it unlikely that a person will forego their 174 weapon/spell damage jewelry enchantments.

So, what do you guys think? have any suggestions? Are there areas where my math is wrong?

Edit: Some misstypes, forgetting to change 4 sec to 1.4 sec on second enchant test, clarify poisons to be weapon poisons.

Avran_Sylt

Just want to mention, the Potency only works on the damage aspect of Poisons, not any % effect. All other effects will benefit from poison duration though.

xboxNA corin6

You shouldn't be comparing that daedra only enchant to something that hits all targets. Also..

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Morag+Tong+Set

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Poisonous+Serpent

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Vicecannon+of+Venom+Set

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Widowmaker+Set

Avran_Sylt

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

You shouldn't be comparing that daedra only enchant to something that hits all targets. Also..

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Morag+Tong+Set

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Poisonous+Serpent

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Vicecannon+of+Venom+Set

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Widowmaker+Set

I already included a comparison of Disease and Poison enchants, after the Deadra only enchant, totals to about 10K without Torugs and Infused , 31K with

Yep, those are some great examples on sets that work well well with poison damage abilities. However, only the widowmaker set has a synergy resulting from player created alchemical poisons, which I should have clarified in the title and TL:DR .My intent was to offer a way to improve the potency of player made poisons, such that in PvE enchants are not the only reasonable choice (100% proc chance in comparison to a 20% proc chance with the same amount of damage, enchants are superior).
The changes I propose should not interfere with the PvP side of things much as the maximum duration extension is 2.8 sec on any poison duration at the cost of a 5 piece and 3 jewelry enchants (looking at stam/mag cost increase poisons). Though if someone does forego sharpened in order to obtain a 50% proc rate with their poisons, it remains to be seen if that would be too much an issue.

Thank you for your feedback, it certainly helped.

Avran_Sylt

Any additional feedback would be greatly appreciated.

NewBlacksmurf

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Any additional feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Poisons shouldn't exist....period

Alchemy should play into weapon crafting and produce those effects so that you choose a poison or enchantment and apply it....and it stays permanently.

Enchantments would require recharging via soul gems and poison effects would require alchemy mats to recharge

Oakmontowls_ESO

Definitely a no on adding a new trait the trait rng doesn't need to be even harder to get the trait you want. However adding those bonuses to infused would probably work. Also poisons are really good in pvp so that would have to be looked at in these adjustments.

Avran_Sylt

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Any additional feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Poisons shouldn't exist....period

Alchemy should play into weapon crafting and produce those effects so that you choose a poison or enchantment and apply it....and it stays permanently.

Enchantments would require recharging via soul gems and poison effects would require alchemy mats to recharge

Why permanently? an inscribed rune could be purged with magic, reforged, and re-inscribed. Poison can just be wiped off.
Enchanting already use soul gems to recharge, and you can slot upwards of 1000 poison vials on your weapons poison slot, which act as the recharge mechanic (with proper alchemy skill you make x16 doses of poison, uses alchemy ingredients.)

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Definitely a no on adding a new trait the trait rng doesn't need to be even harder to get the trait you want. However adding those bonuses to infused would probably work. Also poisons are really good in pvp so that would have to be looked at in these adjustments.

hmm, adding the effects to the infused trait might work, but then it'd make the text messy as hell. I can def see why crafters wouldn't want another trait that needs 30 days of research, or players looting weapons to have a further reduced chance of getting their wanted gear.

Poisons def are good in PvP, though with poison potency only effecting damage (and resource regen), that might curb some of the issues. the increased duration would need to be looked at for various effects for sure.

Avran_Sylt

Reduced the time values of the poison jewelry enchantments.

Jbugz97

@Avran_Sylt
have you been able to test to see if the poison enchantment or any enchant would proc widowmaker,

you should have compared fire or cold enchant when buff with toruq you get about 5k damage

Avran_Sylt

Jbugz97 wrote: »

@Avran_Sylt
have you been able to test to see if the poison enchantment or any enchant would proc widowmaker,

you should have compared fire or cold enchant when buff with toruq you get about 5k damage

It specifies Alchemical Poison in the tooltip.

5K with CP and racial passives most likely, yeah.