[RANT] The world space is crammed too tightly with annoying crap. Exloration isn't fun.

Dahveed

I know it's way, WAY too late to complain about something like this, and this rant won't accomplish anything. But I can't be the only one that is annoyed by this.

Isn't it odd that in a supposedly huge open world, that my character can't ride for literally more than 4 seconds without pulling aggro from a random creature or bandit that wants to kill me? Or that I leave a wayshrine and 7 seconds later I find an Ayleid ruin, so I run past that ruin and 9 seconds later I find a cave, and then 5 seconds after that I run into a dolmen, followed by a delve 14 seconds later, then 8 seconds after that a settlement.

And all the while being chased by an army of angry wasps and bandits who just patrol the same 3 meters until the end of time just waiting for me to pass so they can chase me.

This game has a lot going for it, but I find the exploration aspect to be the worst in any RPG I have ever played. When I find something "new" (i.e. copy/pasted assets) ever 15 seconds, it's hardly exhilarating. When I find a new treasure chest every 2 minutes that has nothing but a few gold and some random green item in it, it's hard to get excited. When I cannot run for (literally) more than 10 seconds without running into an annoying, copy/pasted bandit or creature that wants to kill me for no reason, it's not fun or interesting, just tedious.

I played Oblivion for a bit the other day and I remember traveling on foot from Bruma to Anvil and I had to fight exactly three battles, and I discovered two different caves or structures. But the battles were fun and the locations were interesting because, while exploring, I really had the impression I was in a vast OPEN world with great scenery and atmosphere, and I felt totally immersed in the game, as though I were a true explorer lost in the wilderness.

In ESO I sometimes feel like an insect caught in a blender full of crap they just threw in there as "content". There is no wonder or excitement in discovering anything. It's as though there is some kind of unwritten rule the devs had to obey, that they aren't allowed to leave more than 20 meters of world space between any creatures, caves, treasures, mining nodes etc etc. Literally everywhere I turn there is some crap there to attack me, annoy me or get in my way.

It's strange how the more our technological skill advances in video games, the less skilled devs become at making good open world games. I remember even playing games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the very first one) how exciting it was to discover a cave, or a new town, or perhaps a structure you'd pass but couldn't access because it was cut off by mountains... and the anticipation you'd feel when much later on in your main quest you'd finally be allowed in and your heart would skip a beat.

Games just can't accomplish this anymore. Our ADD generation just needs to have flashy stuff thrown in our faces every 3 seconds or we get bored I guess. And that's how we wind up with ESO's clusterf** of an open world. Nothing about exploration in this game excites me.

/end rant.

Soriana

Go.To.Cyrodiil

menedhyn

In terms of the proximity of 'things' to 'other things', I know what you mean. This is one of the (many) reasons why I choose to walk everywhere and avoid wayshrines. Yes it means things take an age, but that's exactly what i'm after. It aids my sense of exploration anyway.

IcyDeadPeople

Soriana wrote: »

Go.To.Cyrodiil

Agreed. Not sure exactly why, but Cyrodiil has always felt a bit more like the single player TES open world sandbox games, where anything can happen.

Sentinel

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Soriana wrote: »

Go.To.Cyrodiil

Agreed. Not sure exactly why, but Cyrodiil has always felt a bit more like the single player TES open world sandbox games, where anything can happen.

A large portion of locations in Cyrodiil are unmarked on a map, and the distance in between them coupled with the danger of other players lurking about makes exploration feel both vast and dangerous much alike the single player TES games.

andreasranasen

I actually have to agree with this. I don't really see it as a rant though. It's just a fact. The world of ESO is very cluttered with either "too much stuff" or too many creatures.

This is why i love Cyrodiil! It's VERY open. I hope they implement maps like Cyro in the future. Not everything has to be cramped into one space. I don't mind having huge open fields.

Dahveed

andreasranasen wrote: »

I actually have to agree with this. I don't really see it as a rant though. It's just a fact. The world of ESO is very cluttered with either "too much stuff" or too many creatures.

This is why i love Cyrodiil! It's VERY open. I hope they implement maps like Cyro in the future. Not everything has to be cramped into one space. I don't mind having huge open fields.

Well I can only hope that the Morrowind expansion won't be so filled with crap all over the place. I want to feel like an adventurer exploring an open world in an RPG... but this game sometimes feels more like a 3d version of Mega Man where you are just constantly bombarded with action combat.

andreasranasen

Dahveed wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

I actually have to agree with this. I don't really see it as a rant though. It's just a fact. The world of ESO is very cluttered with either "too much stuff" or too many creatures.

This is why i love Cyrodiil! It's VERY open. I hope they implement maps like Cyro in the future. Not everything has to be cramped into one space. I don't mind having huge open fields.

Well I can only hope that the Morrowind expansion won't be so filled with crap all over the place. I want to feel like an adventurer exploring an open world in an RPG... but this game sometimes feels more like a 3d version of Mega Man where you are just constantly bombarded with action combat.

Yep! It's a little bit too much copy n paste. "Let's place a deer here, and one here, and one here"... I think Craglorn and Wrothgar are by far the best designed maps, and of course Cyro.

SirAndy

This is by design ...

In an MMO where you share world assets with other players, you have to have a higher density of assets, otherwise your game world becomes way too sparse.

You also need to have a fairly high respawn rate for the same reasons. Although ESO is smart enough to adjust the respawn rate depending on the number of players in the area.

This is one of those things that you just can't compare to solo games like Oblivion. The design has to take other players into consideration.

Rex-Umbra

Dahveed wrote: »

I know it's way, WAY too late to complain about something like this, and this rant won't accomplish anything. But I can't be the only one that is annoyed by this.

Isn't it odd that in a supposedly huge open world, that my character can't ride for literally more than 4 seconds without pulling aggro from a random creature or bandit that wants to kill me? Or that I leave a wayshrine and 7 seconds later I find an Ayleid ruin, so I run past that ruin and 9 seconds later I find a cave, and then 5 seconds after that I run into a dolmen, followed by a delve 14 seconds later, then 8 seconds after that a settlement.

And all the while being chased by an army of angry wasps and bandits who just patrol the same 3 meters until the end of time just waiting for me to pass so they can chase me.

This game has a lot going for it, but I find the exploration aspect to be the worst in any RPG I have ever played. When I find something "new" (i.e. copy/pasted assets) ever 15 seconds, it's hardly exhilarating. When I find a new treasure chest every 2 minutes that has nothing but a few gold and some random green item in it, it's hard to get excited. When I cannot run for (literally) more than 10 seconds without running into an annoying, copy/pasted bandit or creature that wants to kill me for no reason, it's not fun or interesting, just tedious.

I played Oblivion for a bit the other day and I remember traveling on foot from Bruma to Anvil and I had to fight exactly three battles, and I discovered two different caves or structures. But the battles were fun and the locations were interesting because, while exploring, I really had the impression I was in a vast OPEN world with great scenery and atmosphere, and I felt totally immersed in the game, as though I were a true explorer lost in the wilderness.

In ESO I sometimes feel like an insect caught in a blender full of crap they just threw in there as "content". There is no wonder or excitement in discovering anything. It's as though there is some kind of unwritten rule the devs had to obey, that they aren't allowed to leave more than 20 meters of world space between any creatures, caves, treasures, mining nodes etc etc. Literally everywhere I turn there is some crap there to attack me, annoy me or get in my way.

It's strange how the more our technological skill advances in video games, the less skilled devs become at making good open world games. I remember even playing games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the very first one) how exciting it was to discover a cave, or a new town, or perhaps a structure you'd pass but couldn't access because it was cut off by mountains... and the anticipation you'd feel when much later on in your main quest you'd finally be allowed in and your heart would skip a beat.

Games just can't accomplish this anymore. Our ADD generation just needs to have flashy stuff thrown in our faces every 3 seconds or we get bored I guess. And that's how we wind up with ESO's clusterf** of an open world. Nothing about exploration in this game excites me.

/end rant.

Orsinium is much better and I imagine morrpwind is probably more spacious

spencer2361

Didn't this game get crushed at launch for to many wide open spaces?

Prof_Bawbag

I posted a very similar thread once. I agree. I think for some people, the problem becomes more glaring the longer you play the game. Never used to bother me, but it's something that does now kinda irritate me. I liked FO4 more than FO3 and NV primarily because I wasn't tripping over hostile npcs every 2ft. Used to be really bad in Oblivion too.

Alp

spencer2361 wrote: »

Didn't this game get crushed at launch for to many wide open spaces?

Yeah, people called Cyrodiil at least a "walking simulator". It's kinda sad, it's my favourite part of Cyrodiil.

Reverb

This felt a little better for me once I had completed all the major quests in each zone. Now that so many of the associated mobs are "yellow aura" instead of auto-aggro, it's more enjoyable to wander around and explore.

srfrogg23

Dahveed wrote: »

I know it's way, WAY too late to complain about something like this, and this rant won't accomplish anything. But I can't be the only one that is annoyed by this.

Isn't it odd that in a supposedly huge open world, that my character can't ride for literally more than 4 seconds without pulling aggro from a random creature or bandit that wants to kill me? Or that I leave a wayshrine and 7 seconds later I find an Ayleid ruin, so I run past that ruin and 9 seconds later I find a cave, and then 5 seconds after that I run into a dolmen, followed by a delve 14 seconds later, then 8 seconds after that a settlement.

And all the while being chased by an army of angry wasps and bandits who just patrol the same 3 meters until the end of time just waiting for me to pass so they can chase me.

This game has a lot going for it, but I find the exploration aspect to be the worst in any RPG I have ever played. When I find something "new" (i.e. copy/pasted assets) ever 15 seconds, it's hardly exhilarating. When I find a new treasure chest every 2 minutes that has nothing but a few gold and some random green item in it, it's hard to get excited. When I cannot run for (literally) more than 10 seconds without running into an annoying, copy/pasted bandit or creature that wants to kill me for no reason, it's not fun or interesting, just tedious.

I played Oblivion for a bit the other day and I remember traveling on foot from Bruma to Anvil and I had to fight exactly three battles, and I discovered two different caves or structures. But the battles were fun and the locations were interesting because, while exploring, I really had the impression I was in a vast OPEN world with great scenery and atmosphere, and I felt totally immersed in the game, as though I were a true explorer lost in the wilderness.

In ESO I sometimes feel like an insect caught in a blender full of crap they just threw in there as "content". There is no wonder or excitement in discovering anything. It's as though there is some kind of unwritten rule the devs had to obey, that they aren't allowed to leave more than 20 meters of world space between any creatures, caves, treasures, mining nodes etc etc. Literally everywhere I turn there is some crap there to attack me, annoy me or get in my way.

It's strange how the more our technological skill advances in video games, the less skilled devs become at making good open world games. I remember even playing games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the very first one) how exciting it was to discover a cave, or a new town, or perhaps a structure you'd pass but couldn't access because it was cut off by mountains... and the anticipation you'd feel when much later on in your main quest you'd finally be allowed in and your heart would skip a beat.

Games just can't accomplish this anymore. Our ADD generation just needs to have flashy stuff thrown in our faces every 3 seconds or we get bored I guess. And that's how we wind up with ESO's clusterf** of an open world. Nothing about exploration in this game excites me.

/end rant.

Clearly, you've never been to Azeroth.

Stovahkiin

I would agree with OP's argument if it weren't for the fact that this is an MMO, and every single MMO I've ever played sprinkles a generous amount of random mobs and whatnot everywhere. Let me guess OP, you came to this game expecting it to be "Skyrim 2" ?

MakoFore

ur absoullitely right. they've taken the joy out of solo questing completely. it should be a world where one can adventure for weeks alone- not be fetching icons here and there- and be constantly interrupted by mobs. the mobs are so annoying- they all have the same aggro range and will follow for exactly the same time/range?!! why dint any one think it would be a good idea to make unprovokable mobs - or none at all- sometimes less IS more and space is actually the hardest thing to put on a canvass.

also - while we re on solo / quest play - the puzzles are such dog S#$T that I'm amazed a human thought of them and not my dog. I mean one is literally walking around to 4 orbs and pressing a button to activate them. others are matching the panels to the panels above- i mean really?!?! are we here?
after games like unchained have come out- with amazing interactive puzzles- i think they left alot to be desired on that front. I think the mechanics team, design , the combat team ( in terms of core mechanics and playability) , the graphics and sound teams are all amazing.

the questing , itemisation, combat in terms of balance and mathematics , zoning and of course technical departments- all need looking at - and could be improved to the benefit of the game.

Cadbury

Dahveed wrote: »

I know it's way, WAY too late to complain about something like this, and this rant won't accomplish anything. But I can't be the only one that is annoyed by this.

Isn't it odd that in a supposedly huge open world, that my character can't ride for literally more than 4 seconds without pulling aggro from a random creature or bandit that wants to kill me? Or that I leave a wayshrine and 7 seconds later I find an Ayleid ruin, so I run past that ruin and 9 seconds later I find a cave, and then 5 seconds after that I run into a dolmen, followed by a delve 14 seconds later, then 8 seconds after that a settlement.

And all the while being chased by an army of angry wasps and bandits who just patrol the same 3 meters until the end of time just waiting for me to pass so they can chase me.

This game has a lot going for it, but I find the exploration aspect to be the worst in any RPG I have ever played. When I find something "new" (i.e. copy/pasted assets) ever 15 seconds, it's hardly exhilarating. When I find a new treasure chest every 2 minutes that has nothing but a few gold and some random green item in it, it's hard to get excited. When I cannot run for (literally) more than 10 seconds without running into an annoying, copy/pasted bandit or creature that wants to kill me for no reason, it's not fun or interesting, just tedious.

I played Oblivion for a bit the other day and I remember traveling on foot from Bruma to Anvil and I had to fight exactly three battles, and I discovered two different caves or structures. But the battles were fun and the locations were interesting because, while exploring, I really had the impression I was in a vast OPEN world with great scenery and atmosphere, and I felt totally immersed in the game, as though I were a true explorer lost in the wilderness.

In ESO I sometimes feel like an insect caught in a blender full of crap they just threw in there as "content". There is no wonder or excitement in discovering anything. It's as though there is some kind of unwritten rule the devs had to obey, that they aren't allowed to leave more than 20 meters of world space between any creatures, caves, treasures, mining nodes etc etc. Literally everywhere I turn there is some crap there to attack me, annoy me or get in my way.

It's strange how the more our technological skill advances in video games, the less skilled devs become at making good open world games. I remember even playing games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the very first one) how exciting it was to discover a cave, or a new town, or perhaps a structure you'd pass but couldn't access because it was cut off by mountains... and the anticipation you'd feel when much later on in your main quest you'd finally be allowed in and your heart would skip a beat.

Games just can't accomplish this anymore. Our ADD generation just needs to have flashy stuff thrown in our faces every 3 seconds or we get bored I guess. And that's how we wind up with ESO's clusterf** of an open world. Nothing about exploration in this game excites me.

/end rant.

Oddly enough, I have a very similar issue regarding FFXV...but I digress.

I've yet to play an MMO that completely satisfies the explorer's itch like a good single player RPG.

Dahveed

SirAndy wrote: »

This is by design ...

In an MMO where you share world assets with other players, you have to have a higher density of assets, otherwise your game world becomes way too sparse.

You also need to have a fairly high respawn rate for the same reasons. Although ESO is smart enough to adjust the respawn rate depending on the number of players in the area.

This is one of those things that you just can't compare to solo games like Oblivion. The design has to take other players into consideration.

You make good points. But I still think they could have accomplished the MMO aspect without cramming everything in so tightly.

They could have still made certain spaces more open and empty and others more cluttered to fulfill the needs of questers/grinders etc.

Tannus15

MakoFore wrote: »

ur absoullitely right. they've taken the joy out of solo questing completely. it should be a world where one can adventure for weeks alone- not be fetching icons here and there- and be constantly interrupted by mobs. the mobs are so annoying- they all have the same aggro range and will follow for exactly the same time/range?!! why dint any one think it would be a good idea to make unprovokable mobs - or none at all- sometimes less IS more and space is actually the hardest thing to put on a canvass.

also - while we re on solo / quest play - the puzzles are such dog S#$T that I'm amazed a human thought of them and not my dog. I mean one is literally walking around to 4 orbs and pressing a button to activate them. others are matching the panels to the panels above- i mean really?!?! are we here?
after games like unchained have come out- with amazing interactive puzzles- i think they left alot to be desired on that front. I think the mechanics team, design , the combat team ( in terms of core mechanics and playability) , the graphics and sound teams are all amazing.

the questing , itemisation, combat in terms of balance and mathematics , zoning and of course technical departments- all need looking at - and could be improved to the benefit of the game.

I disagree about the amount of mobs. I generally find it to balance out about right. I have spent hours harvesting mats with only rare combat with something is right on top of the resource node.

If puzzles are your thing play The Secret World.

Dahveed

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

I know it's way, WAY too late to complain about something like this, and this rant won't accomplish anything. But I can't be the only one that is annoyed by this.

Isn't it odd that in a supposedly huge open world, that my character can't ride for literally more than 4 seconds without pulling aggro from a random creature or bandit that wants to kill me? Or that I leave a wayshrine and 7 seconds later I find an Ayleid ruin, so I run past that ruin and 9 seconds later I find a cave, and then 5 seconds after that I run into a dolmen, followed by a delve 14 seconds later, then 8 seconds after that a settlement.

And all the while being chased by an army of angry wasps and bandits who just patrol the same 3 meters until the end of time just waiting for me to pass so they can chase me.

This game has a lot going for it, but I find the exploration aspect to be the worst in any RPG I have ever played. When I find something "new" (i.e. copy/pasted assets) ever 15 seconds, it's hardly exhilarating. When I find a new treasure chest every 2 minutes that has nothing but a few gold and some random green item in it, it's hard to get excited. When I cannot run for (literally) more than 10 seconds without running into an annoying, copy/pasted bandit or creature that wants to kill me for no reason, it's not fun or interesting, just tedious.

I played Oblivion for a bit the other day and I remember traveling on foot from Bruma to Anvil and I had to fight exactly three battles, and I discovered two different caves or structures. But the battles were fun and the locations were interesting because, while exploring, I really had the impression I was in a vast OPEN world with great scenery and atmosphere, and I felt totally immersed in the game, as though I were a true explorer lost in the wilderness.

In ESO I sometimes feel like an insect caught in a blender full of crap they just threw in there as "content". There is no wonder or excitement in discovering anything. It's as though there is some kind of unwritten rule the devs had to obey, that they aren't allowed to leave more than 20 meters of world space between any creatures, caves, treasures, mining nodes etc etc. Literally everywhere I turn there is some crap there to attack me, annoy me or get in my way.

It's strange how the more our technological skill advances in video games, the less skilled devs become at making good open world games. I remember even playing games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the very first one) how exciting it was to discover a cave, or a new town, or perhaps a structure you'd pass but couldn't access because it was cut off by mountains... and the anticipation you'd feel when much later on in your main quest you'd finally be allowed in and your heart would skip a beat.

Games just can't accomplish this anymore. Our ADD generation just needs to have flashy stuff thrown in our faces every 3 seconds or we get bored I guess. And that's how we wind up with ESO's clusterf** of an open world. Nothing about exploration in this game excites me.

/end rant.

Clearly, you've never been to Azeroth.

I used to play WoW back in pre-cataclysm days. There were zones there that felt truly vast and immersive, such as Azshara, The Barrens, and Desolace.

munster1404

I played Tom Clancy's The Division for almost 2000 hours before jumping ship to ESO just a few days ago. My main complain about Division is exactly the opposite. The open world is too sparse and only the PvP area (which I do not play) have decent respawn timings approx 15mins.

srfrogg23

Dahveed wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

I know it's way, WAY too late to complain about something like this, and this rant won't accomplish anything. But I can't be the only one that is annoyed by this.

Isn't it odd that in a supposedly huge open world, that my character can't ride for literally more than 4 seconds without pulling aggro from a random creature or bandit that wants to kill me? Or that I leave a wayshrine and 7 seconds later I find an Ayleid ruin, so I run past that ruin and 9 seconds later I find a cave, and then 5 seconds after that I run into a dolmen, followed by a delve 14 seconds later, then 8 seconds after that a settlement.

And all the while being chased by an army of angry wasps and bandits who just patrol the same 3 meters until the end of time just waiting for me to pass so they can chase me.

This game has a lot going for it, but I find the exploration aspect to be the worst in any RPG I have ever played. When I find something "new" (i.e. copy/pasted assets) ever 15 seconds, it's hardly exhilarating. When I find a new treasure chest every 2 minutes that has nothing but a few gold and some random green item in it, it's hard to get excited. When I cannot run for (literally) more than 10 seconds without running into an annoying, copy/pasted bandit or creature that wants to kill me for no reason, it's not fun or interesting, just tedious.

I played Oblivion for a bit the other day and I remember traveling on foot from Bruma to Anvil and I had to fight exactly three battles, and I discovered two different caves or structures. But the battles were fun and the locations were interesting because, while exploring, I really had the impression I was in a vast OPEN world with great scenery and atmosphere, and I felt totally immersed in the game, as though I were a true explorer lost in the wilderness.

In ESO I sometimes feel like an insect caught in a blender full of crap they just threw in there as "content". There is no wonder or excitement in discovering anything. It's as though there is some kind of unwritten rule the devs had to obey, that they aren't allowed to leave more than 20 meters of world space between any creatures, caves, treasures, mining nodes etc etc. Literally everywhere I turn there is some crap there to attack me, annoy me or get in my way.

It's strange how the more our technological skill advances in video games, the less skilled devs become at making good open world games. I remember even playing games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the very first one) how exciting it was to discover a cave, or a new town, or perhaps a structure you'd pass but couldn't access because it was cut off by mountains... and the anticipation you'd feel when much later on in your main quest you'd finally be allowed in and your heart would skip a beat.

Games just can't accomplish this anymore. Our ADD generation just needs to have flashy stuff thrown in our faces every 3 seconds or we get bored I guess. And that's how we wind up with ESO's clusterf** of an open world. Nothing about exploration in this game excites me.

/end rant.

Clearly, you've never been to Azeroth.

I used to play WoW back in pre-cataclysm days. There were zones there that felt truly vast and immersive, such as Azshara, The Barrens, and Desolace.

Yeah, you haven't seen the new stuff have you? Check out draenor and the broken isles. If you think ESO is packed with NPCs, the newer WoW expansions will give you a whole different outlook.

Move 5 feet, kill something, move 5 feet, kill something... everywhere you go.

Faulgor

So we are complaining about too much content now? This feels bizarre to me.

The only thing I can agree on is that the world feels a bit too civilized, but that is not really down to mob or ruin placement.
Morrowind had an Ancestor Tomb every 50 and a frelling Cliffracer or Skrib every 10 steps, yet felt more wild. IMO, that's because most zones in ESO have considerably more humanoid enemies, which makes the wold feel very populated.
In contrast, Wrothgar has much more critters and animals, and thus feels very wild, while having about the same cadence of enemies and points of interest per area. The Gold Coast feels similar if you don't count Minotaurs as humanoids.

Shishpar

I definitely agree with the sentiment that this world often feels very crowded, but I also can understand and sympathize with the reason that the game was made this way. If things are not close enough together, you can, if you are a casual gamer, or a busy person, end up putting off the quest until you forget about the game, and in busy periods the crowd of players can overwhelm the few enemies unless there are a lot of them. Scattering the enemies densely tends to spread out the players.

Maybe we should suggest that the developers could create quests that are specifically themed around a less dense content; something like "lonely forest" quests that provide rewards which are essentially the same as a more compact quest, but with reward gear styled differently. The different style would provide a bit of a reward for those of us who would like a more drawn out adventure now and then, but people who want things short and fast could still get the same capabilities in their equipment. Just to make sure that people understood their choices, the NPC quest giver could tell the player that the second option would take longer for the same essential reward.

Phinix1

Just as an aside to this, has anyone noticed that most NPC's in this game are passive aggressive narcissistic manic depressives?

Seriously it is so obnoxious to sit in a city for 5 minutes and all you hear is "moan moan moan, woe and misery, is there no end to this curse, sigh sigh sigh* like seriously shut the hell up already.

Dark elves are the worst. L2 have something interesting to say!

Knootewoot

Exploration has never been fun in ESO. Just as mentioned above, all is cramped into small zones. Every zone has the same features (6 sky shards most of the time, same amount of delves, groupshit, bosses, dolmens). Lots of invisible walls. So you never get surprised.

That, and the fact everything is showed on rader and prior to One-tamriel exploring hit a barrier due to level restrictions.

Luckily one-tamriel solved for me one issue that now I can go where I want. But still nothing to explore since I got all maps covered already.

Also I found cyrodill the best and most fun for exploration. I was so happy when I found the skyshard on the top of that mountain. I never used the skyshard addon. But in normal zones it was easy to find them since most of them where just in those caves.

Also the cyrodill dolmens, delves and bosses felt more as an achievement to finish since you could be murdered by other players. But I hardly was murdered at all, and that was in the begin time when many people where doing the stuff in cyrodill. When you do it now, you must be very lucky to find other players near dolmens or delves. (most are fast traveling from keep to keep)

I really hope Morrowind will be large in size as one zone with lots to explore. Also please remove invisible walls,.

Dahveed

Faulgor wrote: »

So we are complaining about too much content now? This feels bizarre to me.

The only thing I can agree on is that the world feels a bit too civilized, but that is not really down to mob or ruin placement.
Morrowind had an Ancestor Tomb every 50 and a frelling Cliffracer or Skrib every 10 steps, yet felt more wild. IMO, that's because most zones in ESO have considerably more humanoid enemies, which makes the wold feel very populated.
In contrast, Wrothgar has much more critters and animals, and thus feels very wild, while having about the same cadence of enemies and points of interest per area. The Gold Coast feels similar if you don't count Minotaurs as humanoids.

It's not that there is "too much content". It's that the content is all packed in too tightly and there are too many copy/pasted assets thrown in your face every 10 seconds.

Dungeons tend to be this way as well. They are often fun, but when you see the same copy/pasted enemies over and over again with the exact same AI in similar groupings (not exact but similar) then it gets tedious.

I know it's part of the MMO experience etc etc... but I was hoping a game with Elder Scrolls in the title could shake up the stereotypes a bit.

for example in Skyrim's Dawnguard expansion I was wandering a dungeon for a minute or so and didn't see any enemies at all. I had my headphones on with the music turned off. It was very dark. Then BAM out of nowhere a gargoyle statue came to life and I almost crapped my pants.

Something like this would NEVER happen in ESO, because it's all so predictable... advance for 10 seconds, wipe group of mobs. Rinse repeat until the mini-boss. Rinse repeat until the end boss. Loot, gg.

I was hoping for more imagination... I know it's hard to do, and they need to consider the "MMO" factor of the game. But that shouldn't mean that so much of the experience has to be like this.

Auros

While I partly agree, the main roads are mostly ok and I am new player - can't say I have explored all, but like good 111 skill points (lots of shards and exploration) lvl 40-ish. If they reduce the density then everyone levelling will clump then the other complaining will star: not enough mobs ... hard to balance

Faulgor

Dahveed wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

So we are complaining about too much content now? This feels bizarre to me.

The only thing I can agree on is that the world feels a bit too civilized, but that is not really down to mob or ruin placement.
Morrowind had an Ancestor Tomb every 50 and a frelling Cliffracer or Skrib every 10 steps, yet felt more wild. IMO, that's because most zones in ESO have considerably more humanoid enemies, which makes the wold feel very populated.
In contrast, Wrothgar has much more critters and animals, and thus feels very wild, while having about the same cadence of enemies and points of interest per area. The Gold Coast feels similar if you don't count Minotaurs as humanoids.

It's not that there is "too much content". It's that the content is all packed in too tightly and there are too many copy/pasted assets thrown in your face every 10 seconds.

Dungeons tend to be this way as well. They are often fun, but when you see the same copy/pasted enemies over and over again with the exact same AI in similar groupings (not exact but similar) then it gets tedious.

I know it's part of the MMO experience etc etc... but I was hoping a game with Elder Scrolls in the title could shake up the stereotypes a bit.

for example in Skyrim's Dawnguard expansion I was wandering a dungeon for a minute or so and didn't see any enemies at all. I had my headphones on with the music turned off. It was very dark. Then BAM out of nowhere a gargoyle statue came to life and I almost crapped my pants.

Something like this would NEVER happen in ESO, because it's all so predictable... advance for 10 seconds, wipe group of mobs. Rinse repeat until the mini-boss. Rinse repeat until the end boss. Loot, gg.

I was hoping for more imagination... I know it's hard to do, and they need to consider the "MMO" factor of the game. But that shouldn't mean that so much of the experience has to be like this.

Well, eventually things are going to repeat themselves. I honestly can't say that there was a greater enemy diversity in the single player TES games than in ESO.
What I can see is that there is not a tremendous amount of architectural assets in the base zones, most likely because they had to develop assets for 10 different races and in the beginning didn't have enough time to create more diverse assets to resemble the differences within the races. Subsequent DLC has been much better at this, and I'm looking forward to all the different Great House architecture in Morrowind.

It's funny you should mention Skyrim though, since one early criticism for that game was that the dungeons felt too much on rails, with a boss and a treasure chest to be expected at the end every single time, and a convenient passage back to the entrance. I too wish they had taken more from earlier games in this regard, but I felt Skyrim's success kind of set the tone.

There are certainly instances similar to the one you describe from Dawnguard in ESO, but they are to be found during scripted quests and not in the normal overland/delve areas. As you say, that's most likely because of the multiplayer aspect, and I'm not sure how they could have improved it in these areas.

What I will say is that I wish there were less "groups of 3" humanoid enemies. It feels like 90%+ of PvE are AoE encounters, and while that is probably also to accommodate to multiple players, I'd prefer more single, strong enemies instead. I very much like Trolls for this reason.
Again, I think the DLC zones improved in this aspect (Haj Mota, Minotaurs ), but it's still striking.

Auros

Dahveed wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

... a gargoyle statue came to life and I almost crapped my pants.

... is exactly what happened to me in the new DLC Thieves guild ... so YES it will happen, they just invest the feedback from us into the new content, rather then fixing the old (you know all those long downtimes and complaints) the game is huge, evolves quite well ... I am optimistic!!