crafting needs a makeover

Lynx7386

I've been playing since launch and always focused on crafting with my main, but it's gotten to the point now where nearly every crafted set is completely out shined by dropped sets. It seems like the only purpose for crafting anymore is to level new characters.

The amount of time and effort a crafter has to put into leveling a crafting skill, researching 9 traits on each item, gathering rare materials and style motifs... you'd think all of that would be enough to at least have gear sets on par with what drops throughout zones in the game.

I have a few suggestions in how to solve this:

1. Allow crafters to modify the trait, level, and style of world dropped items. You should be able to alter that dropped set with an orc theme into any other motif you know, and you should be able to improve it to higher levels by adding level appropriate materials.

2. Allow crafters to repair weapons and armor with crafting materials. This has been on my "crap that bugs the hell out of me" list since launch. Why can that wandering merchant or chef repair my plate armor, but I as a master blacksmith cannot?

3. Implement a system wherein using the set crafting locations throughout the game not only allows you to create that set, but any of the sets that drop within that zone. Nearly all dropped sets should be craftable.

Taleof2Cities

These ideas are good.

I still think they need to buff the underperforming crafted sets, though.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I agree with one, but they would need to be careful with it. I am all for trait change especially, but they cant make it easy or trivial to accomplish. It should be a meaningful decision, probably on pair with making something gold or even more. Motif change seems like a no brainier, and I only care about the level change if they raise the level cap.

I also agree with number two. Very silly that mystics (located in trial waiting rooms) are better at repairing armor than me.

I dont like this. If every dropped set could be craftable, nobody would run content. There needs to be high end gear that is content gated. If parts of number 1 were implemented effectively, it would help the grind at least. Now I would not be opposed to a system where you could craft a bound set for personal use after you deconstructed say 50 pieces of it, but just putting all zone sets in a station is a bad idea IMO.

KerinKor

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I dont like this. If every dropped set could be craftable, nobody would run content.

f content is only there to grind gear to be able to access the next tier of content which is only there to grind gear to access the next tier of content which is only there .. ad nauseum .. perhaps that content has not useful purpose?

If you consider gear is a means to an end, not an end itself, then it puts it into perspective, IMO.

Jayne_Doe

Your frustration with the crafting system, as well as a number of your ideas, have been discussed in previous threads, but I appreciate you bringing this issue to the forefront again, and offering a couple new ideas (new to me, at least).

Instead of offering some of the things in bullet #1, ZOS has instead decided to reward master crafters with a heavy RNG grindfest a.k.a. Master Writs, that reward us with items that only help us to remain irrelevant. Sure, crafting stations in the home are nice, esp. the attunable ones, but those sets are still not as good as the dropped sets. And what's the point in knowing so many styles that never get used.

I had suggested an idea on the PTS that a couple of the items for purchase from Rolis Hlaalu could be plans to craft certain tools for master crafters that would enable you to change traits or style of any gear, crafted or dropped. The plans would require a significant number of vouchers to obtain and a significant number of materials to craft. Then, perhaps there would also be a certain amount of materials consumed to change the trait or style of the gear.

I TOTALLY agree with being able to repair our own gear. Perhaps this could be another item on Rolis' stock - a plan that allows us to create a station - perhaps one for each of the gear crafts - that would then allow us to repair our gear. So, we'd have to get enough vouchers and then enough materials to craft it. Then, we'd have to travel to our home in order to repair, and it could still require a certain amount of materials. Granted, that would remove a gold sink from the game.

I don't agree with being able to craft the dropped sets at a craft station in the same zone. But, perhaps a system whereby you have to research the sets might be ok. But, as mentioned previously, there needs to be a reason to run content and this would deter from that. I would rather see the crafted sets made on par with dropped. There was a time early on, when crafted gear had better base stats than dropped gear, but they changed that a while ago.

Lynx7386

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I dont like this. If every dropped set could be craftable, nobody would run content. There needs to be high end gear that is content gated. If parts of number 1 were implemented effectively, it would help the grind at least. Now I would not be opposed to a system where you could craft a bound set for personal use after you deconstructed say 50 pieces of it, but just putting all zone sets in a station is a bad idea IMO.

Not all sets, only those that drop in zones where a set crafting station exists. You would not be able to craft things like monster sets or Msa/vmsa items, or any sets that drop inside dungeons, trials, or group delves.

STEVIL

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've been playing since launch and always focused on crafting with my main, but it's gotten to the point now where nearly every crafted set is completely out shined by dropped sets. It seems like the only purpose for crafting anymore is to level new characters.

The amount of time and effort a crafter has to put into leveling a crafting skill, researching 9 traits on each item, gathering rare materials and style motifs... you'd think all of that would be enough to at least have gear sets on par with what drops throughout zones in the game.

I have a few suggestions in how to solve this:

1. Allow crafters to modify the trait, level, and style of world dropped items. You should be able to alter that dropped set with an orc theme into any other motif you know, and you should be able to improve it to higher levels by adding level appropriate materials.

2. Allow crafters to repair weapons and armor with crafting materials. This has been on my "crap that bugs the hell out of me" list since launch. Why can that wandering merchant or chef repair my plate armor, but I as a master blacksmith cannot?

3. Implement a system wherein using the set crafting locations throughout the game not only allows you to create that set, but any of the sets that drop within that zone. Nearly all dropped sets should be craftable.

#2 i dont mind

#3 is imo mostly irrelevant and attunable stations will make it a non-issue eventually.

#1 i stonrgly object to.

Crafting has already become mostly a "drop set support" system and what you are suggesting is to just go whole hog with that. its the death of crafted set use or close to it when drop sets gain style control and trait control and leveling even beyond the ability that they drop at your current level always.

Replace thw rod "drop" in #1 with crafted and suddenly crafted sets get a bit of an edge in some cases.

But really what crafted sets need is to not give up their unique capability (only one - style control) but to gain new unique capabilities so they have a seat at the table in the end game.


options include:

• Allow 3pc and 4pc body/wpn crafted sets - easiest way is to let you drop one or two of the 2-3-4pcv bonuses from a set at crafting. There is no drop set equivalent so these builds would be a unique addition to crafted options.
• Allow crafted sets a tier-11 - stretching from cp170-200. Most end game builds would the be a mix of crafted cp200 and dropped cp160s and the decision between a crafted cp200 weapon and a drop set maelstrom cp160 weapon would be worth thinking about.

Rastafariel

I am for crafting always being better than dropped sets like Zenimax promised at launch.

zZzleepyhead

Lynx7386 wrote: »

1. Allow crafters to modify the trait, level, and style of world dropped items. You should be able to alter that dropped set with an orc theme into any other motif you know, and you should be able to improve it to higher levels by adding level appropriate materials.

2. Allow crafters to repair weapons and armor with crafting materials. This has been on my "crap that bugs the hell out of me" list since launch. Why can that wandering merchant or chef repair my plate armor, but I as a master blacksmith cannot?

3. Implement a system wherein using the set crafting locations throughout the game not only allows you to create that set, but any of the sets that drop within that zone. Nearly all dropped sets should be craftable.

1. Too OP
2. No-brainer
3. They are making those sets readily available without having to grind for them. Might as well add them to crafting.

I think the current sets just need some lovin'
So many sets are underwhelming... Night's Silence, Death's Wind, Torug's Pact.. the list goes on. Anyone caught wearing a 5pc set of one of these is a laughing stock.
Ashen Grip is garbage compared to Viper. 10% chance to do 1/4 of the damage. LOL
Crafted sets shouldn't reflect the number of traits needed to craft them if it's means the set can't be viable.

AlexHound

Allow crafters to modify the style of world dropped items is really good idea. Because I have no any motivation to learn craft styles when I'm wearing dropped sets. Btw we have a lot of beautiful and amazing styles here in ESO so why not to let us use it?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

STEVIL wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've been playing since launch and always focused on crafting with my main, but it's gotten to the point now where nearly every crafted set is completely out shined by dropped sets. It seems like the only purpose for crafting anymore is to level new characters.

The amount of time and effort a crafter has to put into leveling a crafting skill, researching 9 traits on each item, gathering rare materials and style motifs... you'd think all of that would be enough to at least have gear sets on par with what drops throughout zones in the game.

I have a few suggestions in how to solve this:

1. Allow crafters to modify the trait, level, and style of world dropped items. You should be able to alter that dropped set with an orc theme into any other motif you know, and you should be able to improve it to higher levels by adding level appropriate materials.

2. Allow crafters to repair weapons and armor with crafting materials. This has been on my "crap that bugs the hell out of me" list since launch. Why can that wandering merchant or chef repair my plate armor, but I as a master blacksmith cannot?

3. Implement a system wherein using the set crafting locations throughout the game not only allows you to create that set, but any of the sets that drop within that zone. Nearly all dropped sets should be craftable.

#2 i dont mind

#3 is imo mostly irrelevant and attunable stations will make it a non-issue eventually.

#1 i stonrgly object to.

Crafting has already become mostly a "drop set support" system and what you are suggesting is to just go whole hog with that. its the death of crafted set use or close to it when drop sets gain style control and trait control and leveling even beyond the ability that they drop at your current level always.

Replace thw rod "drop" in #1 with crafted and suddenly crafted sets get a bit of an edge in some cases.

But really what crafted sets need is to not give up their unique capability (only one - style control) but to gain new unique capabilities so they have a seat at the table in the end game.


options include:

• Allow 3pc and 4pc body/wpn crafted sets - easiest way is to let you drop one or two of the 2-3-4pcv bonuses from a set at crafting. There is no drop set equivalent so these builds would be a unique addition to crafted options.
• Allow crafted sets a tier-11 - stretching from cp170-200. Most end game builds would the be a mix of crafted cp200 and dropped cp160s and the decision between a crafted cp200 weapon and a drop set maelstrom cp160 weapon would be worth thinking about.

Here is my push back on your objection. In terms of style, this is purely cosmetic. Most end game players (the ones that grind for years, yes years, to get a set), are not making decisions based on style. VMA weapons are Ugly AF, but I am never going to replace it with even the most beautiful crafted set in the world. BSW could like like an old garbage bag and I would still run it. We can already change our appearance with costumes, I see no harm in allowing us to change the style of drop gear.

I see where you are coming from on the trait change. Certainly an advantage of a crafted set is that I get to pick the trait. If we had a reasonable loot system or proper trait balance, I dont think it would be an issue. The problem is that we have people rage quitting the game over how bad some of the grinds are. As long as it was not trivial to accomplish, I am find with master crafters being able to change the trait on an item, but again, it should take significant resources to accomplish.

One thing I think we will probably disagree on is the notion that crafted stuff should be as good as dropped stuff. I think the best gear should be gated behind the most difficult content. I do not however, think that one should have to run said content 1000 times to get what they are after. I do think crafted gear should be a reasonable alternative to dropped gear, and that is largely true now for the most part.

Lynx7386

And for the love of God make the black rose set craftable. I am sick and frakking tired of how bad the tel var system is.

STEVIL

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've been playing since launch and always focused on crafting with my main, but it's gotten to the point now where nearly every crafted set is completely out shined by dropped sets. It seems like the only purpose for crafting anymore is to level new characters.

The amount of time and effort a crafter has to put into leveling a crafting skill, researching 9 traits on each item, gathering rare materials and style motifs... you'd think all of that would be enough to at least have gear sets on par with what drops throughout zones in the game.

I have a few suggestions in how to solve this:

1. Allow crafters to modify the trait, level, and style of world dropped items. You should be able to alter that dropped set with an orc theme into any other motif you know, and you should be able to improve it to higher levels by adding level appropriate materials.

2. Allow crafters to repair weapons and armor with crafting materials. This has been on my "crap that bugs the hell out of me" list since launch. Why can that wandering merchant or chef repair my plate armor, but I as a master blacksmith cannot?

3. Implement a system wherein using the set crafting locations throughout the game not only allows you to create that set, but any of the sets that drop within that zone. Nearly all dropped sets should be craftable.

#2 i dont mind

#3 is imo mostly irrelevant and attunable stations will make it a non-issue eventually.

#1 i stonrgly object to.

Crafting has already become mostly a "drop set support" system and what you are suggesting is to just go whole hog with that. its the death of crafted set use or close to it when drop sets gain style control and trait control and leveling even beyond the ability that they drop at your current level always.

Replace thw rod "drop" in #1 with crafted and suddenly crafted sets get a bit of an edge in some cases.

But really what crafted sets need is to not give up their unique capability (only one - style control) but to gain new unique capabilities so they have a seat at the table in the end game.


options include:

• Allow 3pc and 4pc body/wpn crafted sets - easiest way is to let you drop one or two of the 2-3-4pcv bonuses from a set at crafting. There is no drop set equivalent so these builds would be a unique addition to crafted options.
• Allow crafted sets a tier-11 - stretching from cp170-200. Most end game builds would the be a mix of crafted cp200 and dropped cp160s and the decision between a crafted cp200 weapon and a drop set maelstrom cp160 weapon would be worth thinking about.

Here is my push back on your objection. In terms of style, this is purely cosmetic. Most end game players (the ones that grind for years, yes years, to get a set), are not making decisions based on style. VMA weapons are Ugly AF, but I am never going to replace it with even the most beautiful crafted set in the world. BSW could like like an old garbage bag and I would still run it. We can already change our appearance with costumes, I see no harm in allowing us to change the style of drop gear.

I see where you are coming from on the trait change. Certainly an advantage of a crafted set is that I get to pick the trait. If we had a reasonable loot system or proper trait balance, I dont think it would be an issue. The problem is that we have people rage quitting the game over how bad some of the grinds are. As long as it was not trivial to accomplish, I am find with master crafters being able to change the trait on an item, but again, it should take significant resources to accomplish.

One thing I think we will probably disagree on is the notion that crafted stuff should be as good as dropped stuff. I think the best gear should be gated behind the most difficult content. I do not however, think that one should have to run said content 1000 times to get what they are after. I do think crafted gear should be a reasonable alternative to dropped gear, and that is largely true now for the most part.

Actually i too feel the best gear should be behind gated content and drop pieces.i think it adds a lot to the game to have it work that way.

that is why i keep pushing for crafted pieces to have unique capabilities and for drops to keep their unique capabilities.

if both bring different things to the table for end game play then both will have a seat at that table and both will be used.

The single most crude example of that in place now is jewels.

jewel;s only drop and cannot be crafted which means straight up solid guaranteed every serious build will use some drop sets (though believe it or not some have disagreed with me and said some serious builds would use all crafted though surprisingly they got quiet when asked to post examples.)

Right now build-wise there is nothing that can be done with crafted, no building blocks that are unique to crafted and so "all drop sets" are a thing and a growing thing. but there wont be any "all crafted" because you sacrifice jewels, you sacrifice monster sets, you sacrifice vmsa and vdsa weapon sets etc.

You can still have drop monster sets being the best two piece body additions and have vmsa/vdsa weapon sets be the best weapon options and even have 3pc wpn/jewel sets be the best 3pc with jewels going and have crafted sets represented if the crafted sets gave you something special like say 3pc and 4pc 5pc body/wpn sets that were top shelf.

Right now after you slot your VMSA/VDSA weapon, your 2 pc monster and your 3pc jewel you have 5pc body sets left. Right now you might find julianos or tbs a good fit in there but there are plenty of drop sets that also vie for that role and succeed well leading to all drop no crafted at all as an option with no sacrifices.

but if instead there were 3pc body/wpn crafted - an option for 3pc crafted and 5pc jewel/body becomes viable. A seat at the table for crafted.

if instead crafted sets could rise to cp170-200 then the 5pc body being crafted along with the 3pc jewel, vmsa wpn and 2 pc monster becomes a thing.

For non-vmsa/vdsa builds an 11 slot build for 2h/bow/staff users with 2pc monster set, 5pc drop set and 4pc crafted set becomes a thing.

You dont need for "the best gear" to be crafted to keep crafted actiuvely sought if you give it its own unique places.

right now its only unique place is style and its second biggest gain is "convenience" in that its quicker to craft a trait than grind for it - but eventually the grind can get the desired trait for your drop.

While style is just cosmetic or "purely cosmetic" it is one of the things keeping crafted sets in play to some degree. giving that up to drop sets right now would remove that and further the decline in actual play of drop sets across the spectrum not just at end game.

Simply put there is already tons ant tons ant tons of "why use drop sets" in place including multiple "exclusive to drop set" capabilities and i cant see right now taking one of the most frequent flaws for them and removing it unless you either just say "yeah crafted aren't supposed to matter at all" (and adjust the skill loss for crafted) or give crafted other "why use drop sets" capabilities that counter-balance the changes.

Its always easy to look at one piece of the puzzle and say "just do this and not worry about that other related stuff" but thats to me like saying "hey take a left here cuz the road has fewer potholes" when you need to go right to get to your destination.

Lynx7386

The real problem is that dripped sets have major, gameplay changing 5 pc bonuses, while crafted sets have generic 5 pc perks that simply can't compare in most cases.

Take black rose heavy, for instance. Increases the magicka and stamina you get each time you are hit by 35%. There isn't a single crafted taking set that can even compare to that.