Why did ZOS feel the need to introduce a ridiculous grind for new mats?

Mephisto939

So let me get this straight.... I can craft a magic staff with only wood and resins, but can't make a simple chair without some stupid new rare resource components that I have to waste my time farming resource nodes for? This was a terrible... terrible idea. I thought the idea was to use up some of the thousands of useless mats I carry around in my crafting bag. This only compounds things. And why don't these mats drop on surveys? Another terrible... terrible idea. If ZOS wants the game to be enjoyable, they should not introduce pointless mechanics that force players to needlessly waste time.

Blackbird_V

As a crafter and material farmer: i am happy.

Mephisto939

BlackbirdV wrote: »

As a crafter and material farmer: i am happy.

Well, as a master crafter in every discipline, I am not. I would rather run dungeons or PVP, or do almost anything for that matter, then run around the map all day chopping wood etc... hoping to get a rare drop of the new mats. It really seems pointless to me other than to frustrate people into buying items from the crown store.

anitajoneb17_ESO

That one is easy :

- Either people are impatient and buy in the crown store (ZOS wins)
- Or people are patient and grind longer in the game, thus play longer and more (ZOS wins).

In this case though, whether a win for ZOS means a win for the game is questionable.

Mephisto939

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That one is easy :

- Either people are impatient and buy in the crown store (ZOS wins)
- Or people are patient and grind longer in the game, thus play longer and more (ZOS wins).

In this case though, whether a win for ZOS means a win for the game is questionable.

-Or people get frustrated/annoyed and play something else.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mephisto939 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That one is easy :

- Either people are impatient and buy in the crown store (ZOS wins)
- Or people are patient and grind longer in the game, thus play longer and more (ZOS wins).

In this case though, whether a win for ZOS means a win for the game is questionable.

-Or people get frustrated/annoyed and play something else.

That was part of my "questioning". But from what I see in the game, players who are annoyed by the housing grind don't quit, they simply ignore housing and go on with their regular raiding or dungeoning or whatever it is they like to do in the game.

SunnyBunny

It is frustrating - but i've worked out a system with a few guild mates...I will do the grinding for them, I am often lost and will find random mats, in exchange I am often given blue prints and such. So there is a bit of a silver lining I guess.

STEVIL

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That one is easy :

- Either people are impatient and buy in the crown store (ZOS wins)
- Or people are patient and grind longer in the game, thus play longer and more (ZOS wins).

In this case though, whether a win for ZOS means a win for the game is questionable.

-Or people get frustrated/annoyed and play something else.

That was part of my "questioning". But from what I see in the game, players who are annoyed by the housing grind don't quit, they simply ignore housing and go on with their regular raiding or dungeoning or whatever it is they like to do in the game.

yeah - this.

"The added subsystem isn't fun for me so..."
1. I quit the game
2. I play the parts i was enjoying before the new part.

Which option is the one many would choose?

But seriously, I think they did it to put in place a new subsystem that will take on a long term role as opposed to "its been four weeks and now i have stocked so many furnishings that..."

I mean, gee, the free update adds a system that will take months or longer of gradual effort to get "a good ways in" but its special materials and recipes/patterns drop as a normal part of routine stuff like gathering mats, opening containers etc so you can continue it while doing other stuff.

You do not have to grind housing and furnishing crafting.
It does not have to be grindable to completion in a few days.
It does not have to take over your activities in game and drive you to doing grinding you dont like.
Just play as regular and you will see patterns come up from time to time and you will see bast and othe rmats come up and accumulate and other furnishings drop in some cases and so on...

To me this is just an added part of my play now, not a massive grindy takeover for a short time.

Its good to see content that wont be "done" in two weeks.

WolfgangArmadeus

BlackbirdV wrote: »

As a crafter and material farmer: i am happy.

You couldnt be serious? 2 months of gathering to make a kitchen table and 2 chairs, and you are happy about that?

Mephisto939 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That one is easy :

- Either people are impatient and buy in the crown store (ZOS wins)
- Or people are patient and grind longer in the game, thus play longer and more (ZOS wins).

In this case though, whether a win for ZOS means a win for the game is questionable.

-Or people get frustrated/annoyed and play something else.

I have already switched to FFXIV for my MMO needs. Probably permanently this time. Every aspect of that game is better in terms of being an mmo. And there are tons of better solo rpg's out there. I usually play The Witcher for my solo needs. Great Game...

It is getting sad how much Zeni is pushing the cash shop with every new update.

I would say you should try FFXIV yourself if you havent already, but ZOS likes deleting comments that suggest better games to players.

You think they would take it as a sign to step their game up, but no, they just delete the comment.

anitajoneb17_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

To me this is just an added part of my play now, not a massive grindy takeover for a short time.

Its good to see content that wont be "done" in two weeks.

I see your point but ... another option would have been to make all those furniture items easy to get/craft. People would gather tons of them and then start playing around and building great interiors and buildings with them (like we did on PTS, like we did in Sims...)
Housing is not like a dungeon (when it's done;.. it's done), it's a neverending activity.

I'd prefer to see people playing with hundreds of planks and build crazy things with them for a long time, rather than having a single plank cost a week of grinding mats. I think that would have been more enjoyable for me, for many others, and ultimately for the game.

strikeback1247

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

BlackbirdV wrote: »

As a crafter and material farmer: i am happy.

You couldnt be serious? 2 months of gathering to make a kitchen table and 2 chairs, and you are happy about that?

Mephisto939 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That one is easy :

- Either people are impatient and buy in the crown store (ZOS wins)
- Or people are patient and grind longer in the game, thus play longer and more (ZOS wins).

In this case though, whether a win for ZOS means a win for the game is questionable.

-Or people get frustrated/annoyed and play something else.

I have already switched to FFXIV for my MMO needs. Probably permanently this time. Every aspect of that game is better in terms of being an mmo. And there are tons of better solo rpg's out there. I usually play The Witcher for my solo needs. Great Game...

It is getting sad how much Zeni is pushing the cash shop with every new update.

I would say you should try FFXIV yourself if you havent already, but ZOS likes deleting comments that suggest better games to players.

You think they would take it as a sign to step their game up, but no, they just delete the comment.

I'm happy. Many players can't be bothered to farm the mats, so I farm them and sell them for high prices :^)

Oh and these forums are meant to discuss ESO, NOT other games. If that surprises you, it would be better if you ineed would leave permanently.

Mephisto939

STEVIL wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mephisto939 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That one is easy :

- Either people are impatient and buy in the crown store (ZOS wins)
- Or people are patient and grind longer in the game, thus play longer and more (ZOS wins).

In this case though, whether a win for ZOS means a win for the game is questionable.

-Or people get frustrated/annoyed and play something else.

That was part of my "questioning". But from what I see in the game, players who are annoyed by the housing grind don't quit, they simply ignore housing and go on with their regular raiding or dungeoning or whatever it is they like to do in the game.

yeah - this.

"The added subsystem isn't fun for me so..."
1. I quit the game
2. I play the parts i was enjoying before the new part.

Which option is the one many would choose?

But seriously, I think they did it to put in place a new subsystem that will take on a long term role as opposed to "its been four weeks and now i have stocked so many furnishings that..."

I mean, gee, the free update adds a system that will take months or longer of gradual effort to get "a good ways in" but its special materials and recipes/patterns drop as a normal part of routine stuff like gathering mats, opening containers etc so you can continue it while doing other stuff.

You do not have to grind housing and furnishing crafting.
It does not have to be grindable to completion in a few days.
It does not have to take over your activities in game and drive you to doing grinding you dont like.
Just play as regular and you will see patterns come up from time to time and you will see bast and othe rmats come up and accumulate and other furnishings drop in some cases and so on...

To me this is just an added part of my play now, not a massive grindy takeover for a short time.

Its good to see content that wont be "done" in two weeks.

The thing is, I don't really farm mats. I get my mats through surveys which for some strange reason don't drop the new mats.I am not saying I think we should be able to master the dlc overnight. I am saying that the new mat requirements are unnecessary and cumbersome to begin with, but the ridiculous drop rate seems intentionally designed to drive people to the crown store.

Narvuntien

Perhaps the felt people were hoarding mats too much and they want to empty peoples storage....

I mean the master writs seem to be designed to get people to actually use thier yellow mats.

Mephisto939

Narvuntien wrote: »

Perhaps the felt people were hoarding mats too much and they want to empty peoples storage....

I mean the master writs seem to be designed to get people to actually use thier yellow mats.

I have literally got 1000's of sub 160 mats collecting dust, but they are still all useless because now I have to go farm heartwood all week to make a table and chairs. Again, I think the new mats was a terrible idea, especially considering you need to get rare blueprints already.

WolfgangArmadeus

strikeback1247 wrote: »

I'm happy. Many players can't be bothered to farm the mats, so I farm them and sell them for high prices :^)

Oh and these forums are meant to discuss ESO, NOT other games. If that surprises you, it would be better if you ineed would leave permanently.

If I can help a fellow gamer find enjoyment, whether it be in ESO or another game, I will try. ESO should not keep thinking this model of game development is okay. Grind or Cash Shop is just rude to their fans

So you are happy because this update supports your greed just as much as it supports Zeni greed.

Okay... So the only ppl who like this addition to the game are those who will use it to exploit others and take advantage of the real money trading market...

So toxic players love housing.

Gamers who would just like to have fun in ESO and decorate their houses hate housing.

How does ZOS think they are sending this game in the right direction? @ZOS_RyanM

ulrik_74

Taking things calmly.

It's a time grind that is not enjoyable. Finally got a master writ to create an epic item... and got 6 vouchers for it.

magical items are easier to get and create than a ceramic mug. FAIL.

It's not fun.

Reivax

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I'd prefer to see people playing with hundreds of planks and build crazy things with them for a long time, rather than having a single plank cost a week of grinding mats. I think that would have been more enjoyable for me, for many others, and ultimately for the game.

This is how I would have preferred it, get right in and start making stuff. Using all the same woods, metals, etc that we already had.
The carrot in front of me would be chasing rarer decorations, made from rarer materials.
And not a half-dozen glyphs to make a common table. Is it a magical table, will it increase my health by 830 when I sit at it?

WolfgangArmadeus

Of course zos will never chime in with their thought process behind this grind, because it is so obviously just to push the cash shop even more...

Next will be 5000 crown 20 slot storage containers for your house. Of course they can be crafted but you need 100 perfect roe, 10 aetheric dust, and 200 temp alloy to make one.

How thick can you get?

Mojmir

Lazyness,lack of creativity at least they're consistent in that.lol

esotericist

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

I have already switched to FFXIV for my MMO needs. Probably permanently this time. Every aspect of that game is better in terms of being an mmo. And there are tons of better solo rpg's out there. I usually play The Witcher for my solo needs. Great Game...

It is getting sad how much Zeni is pushing the cash shop with every new update.

I would say you should try FFXIV yourself if you havent already, but ZOS likes deleting comments that suggest better games to players.

You think they would take it as a sign to step their game up, but no, they just delete the comment.

Everyone has different needs. I loved FF14, but it didn't love me: I have trouble with team content. I have a great deal of trouble with mandatory team content. I have even more trouble with large team content. Mandatory large team content? The bridge has sailed too far.

When it was just the occasional 4-man trial, I could piteously tug my FCmates into helping me get through it, then get back to playing the game.

Then I hit the point where it was going to regularly require 8-man things periodically for me to continue MSQ, and MSQ gates access to basically everything else...

I am consequently much much happier in ESO, where I may play by myself when I need to -- which is most of the time -- but still have the option (emphasis: option, not requirement) of teaming with other people.

Yes, there are things I miss from FF14. The colorful setting, the crafting system, leves...

... but it's much nicer being able to actually play how I want, when I want, where I want, in a combat system that is far more forgiving of bad hands** and sensory processing issues***.


**RSI from years of poor choices in input devices (incorrectly sized keyboard, for instance) results in me basically needing to play on a gamepad to not be in constant pain. Scholar on gamepad? 'Exciting.'

***Autistic with limited ability to track things currently in vision, nevermind things not currently in vision. Level 50 scholar on gamepad needing to work with multiple trays? More 'exciting'.

Turelus

Give it time and the market (player) will be much more stacked with materials you can buy OP.

Then you can run dungeons all day and just buy the materials you need.

Frondale

Gives me something to do in the game. I am happy with it.

Love being surprised with what I might find in my travels and farming.

STEVIL

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

To me this is just an added part of my play now, not a massive grindy takeover for a short time.

Its good to see content that wont be "done" in two weeks.

I see your point but ... another option would have been to make all those furniture items easy to get/craft. People would gather tons of them and then start playing around and building great interiors and buildings with them (like we did on PTS, like we did in Sims...)
Housing is not like a dungeon (when it's done;.. it's done), it's a neverending activity.

I'd prefer to see people playing with hundreds of planks and build crazy things with them for a long time, rather than having a single plank cost a week of grinding mats. I think that would have been more enjoyable for me, for many others, and ultimately for the game.

Of course they could have done a completely different system. That goes without saying. Making crafting a necessity is a roadblock. Requiring multiple craffs on one char is a roadblock. All of those roadblocks could have never been there and a different system flooding furnishings in so foljs csn all be free simmimg from day one - not just crafters.

But if you are looking at the system they did put in, foljs having hundreds of furnishings quickly breaks all those other parts of the system. Houses have limits on furnishings, banks and chars have limits on inventory, crafters would be out of the picture pretty quick after everybody got their hundreds of furnishings in a month maybe and thousands more sit in guild stores.

There ARE plenty of reasons in this system why uundreds and hundreds of furnishings in evetybodies hands in a couple weeks or a month breaks things or clogs it so much its nearly broken.

For many people that would be done.

Imo

Running delves for undaunted, dungeons for mages guild, soloing dungeons for undaunted are things i routinely do. Now after homestead, i take more time, checking crates and pack i blew past before. Getting to the end and seeing new patterns maybe one or two, is as good for me as the pledge key or merits boxes.

I for one am very very glad that they did not go with hundreds of furnishings for everybody out of the box or in short order so that like so much of the content its less quest than inventory after just a little time.

Zouni

I am glad they did it the way they did. This makes sure that no one has unfair advantage in the furniture market. It also makes the everyday playing experienced more enjoyable collecting these new mats. My craft bag is full of materials, if I had all the stuff in my bag when Homestead hit It would have been very boring.

Beardimus

In every aspect of the game there is content that some like some hate.

Action gamers hate the wood chopping, yet full crafters enjoy it to sell to Action gamers. Same with traders, everyone can excell at their passion in game.

Remove the grind, remove the economy for those who want to make a buck selling things for others convenience. Who focus on those areas.

How would action gamers feel on posts asking to ruin the part of the game they enjoy? MMO is a rich game, catering to all who okay its many ways of playing.

mariskaas

I agree the drop rate should be a little bit higher but with a little patience the guild stores will be overflowing with furniture, blueprints and mats. Prices will drop. You just buy everything you need. New content would be a little bit of a waste if you just could complete it instantly.

Mephisto939

Zouni wrote: »

I am glad they did it the way they did. This makes sure that no one has unfair advantage in the furniture market. It also makes the everyday playing experienced more enjoyable collecting these new mats. My craft bag is full of materials, if I had all the stuff in my bag when Homestead hit It would have been very boring.

What unfair advantage? You would still need to find blueprints. And what could be more boring than aimlessly running around looking for resource nodes, hoping to get a rare drop to build a friggin table?

Vethalon

Now I'm kinda worried I was just having luck, about 25% of nodes drop furnishing mats.
They seem to have different odds, with alchemy nodes dropping furnishing mats >50% of the time and wood only <10%.
I allready build and sold about 30 pieces of furniture in about 10h playtime.

Fudly_budly

Sorry can't post more cause I gotta get to grinding for Bast. Only took a week to earn my Expert Harvester achievement for collecting 25 Bast (average 1/hr). Finally got to actually craft a bed late last night!! Yaaaaaay!! Can't be sure but hey, maybe, I can make a few chairs this week. I am just so pumped with my new full-time job at the Lemming Works!

Mephisto939

Fudly_budly wrote: »

Sorry can't post more cause I gotta get to grinding for Bast. Only took a week to earn my Expert Harvester achievement for collecting 25 Bast (average 1/hr). Finally got to actually craft a bed late last night!! Yaaaaaay!! Can't be sure but hey, maybe, I can make a few chairs this week. I am just so pumped with my new full-time job at the Lemming Works!

I am investing in lotto tickets. Hopefully I win big so I can just buy everything from the crown store and the business analyst who came up with this asinine idea can get a decent bonus this year,

Brunoad

Most of this is a push towards ESO+ monthly subscription - keep adding new mats, gear, etc, etc, but do NOT increase inventory size in any way to accommodate.
Housing SHOULD have added inventory storage, so you would have a good reason to visit your house regularly, but this would have been counterproductive to ESO+. As a result, houses are basically just a cosmetic gold, grind and $ sink.