Proccs are not "fixed" with no crit, they are asenine, just critless-asenine. (pic)

olsborg

And this is just one example, its far worse when more then one players are atking you, and that happens 90% of the time because the meta is still, PROCCS.
@Wrobel open your eyes pls.

MalakithAlamahdi

We all said it, but ZoS doesn't care what we think.

StackonClown

Zos does care - and actually, they have some awesome players at their offices to provide them with feedback which covers the whole playing community.. so there's a good chance what you mention may already be under discussion.
You can watch out for some youtube updates once the meetings are finished.

Turelus

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

We all said it, but ZoS doesn't care what we think.

Or... they're not making knee-jerk nerfs which everyone whines about each time they do it.
This meta/fotm will end eventually, then you'll all be complaining about whatever the new one is.

MalakithAlamahdi

Turelus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

We all said it, but ZoS doesn't care what we think.

Or... they're not making knee-jerk nerfs which everyone whines about each time they do it.
This meta/fotm will end eventually, then you'll all be complaining about whatever the new one is.

Nerfing crit only effects PvE and does nothing in PvP, which was what the nerf was intended for. People said that and gave test results for weeks to show this to them.

No, they don't listen, or simply don't care which is even worse.

Reefo

you got hit with a non-crit 3685 viper proc... if this guys tooltip is 8500 (mighty CP and minor berserk)
then that means you have like 13% resistance with armor and CP combined.

ie: 3685 x2 (battle spirit) = 7370
(8500 - 7370) / 8500 = 13.3% before 50% damage reduction on battle spirit.

thats like sorc with shields down and all points in bastion, but since you got healed by vigor, either playing with someone or your resistances are so low and have no CP in hardy as a stam build.

very strange.

olsborg

Reefo wrote: »

you got hit with a non-crit 3685 viper proc... if this guys tooltip is 8500 (mighty CP and minor berserk)
then that means you have like 13% resistance with armor and CP combined.

ie: 3685 x2 (battle spirit) = 7370
(8500 - 7370) / 8500 = 13.3% before 50% damage reduction on battle spirit.

thats like sorc with shields down and all points in bastion, but since you got healed by vigor, either playing with someone or your resistances are so low and have no CP in hardy as a stam build.

very strange.

For reference, my resists at this moment was 17k ish armor and 16k ish spellresist, I have 21% into hardy and 20.1% into elemental defender. My crit resist is 2660. I consider those stats pretty tanky for someone in full medium armor.

olsborg

olsborg wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

you got hit with a non-crit 3685 viper proc... if this guys tooltip is 8500 (mighty CP and minor berserk)
then that means you have like 13% resistance with armor and CP combined.

ie: 3685 x2 (battle spirit) = 7370
(8500 - 7370) / 8500 = 13.3% before 50% damage reduction on battle spirit.

thats like sorc with shields down and all points in bastion, but since you got healed by vigor, either playing with someone or your resistances are so low and have no CP in hardy as a stam build.

very strange.

For reference, my resists at this moment was 17k ish armor and 16k ish spellresist, I have 21% into hardy and 20.1% into elemental defender. My crit resist is 2660. I consider those stats pretty tanky for someone in full medium armor.

Wasnt completely correct info there, but here is screenshot of current builds defences.

MalakithAlamahdi

Reefo wrote: »

you got hit with a non-crit 3685 viper proc... if this guys tooltip is 8500 (mighty CP and minor berserk)
then that means you have like 13% resistance with armor and CP combined.

ie: 3685 x2 (battle spirit) = 7370
(8500 - 7370) / 8500 = 13.3% before 50% damage reduction on battle spirit.

thats like sorc with shields down and all points in bastion, but since you got healed by vigor, either playing with someone or your resistances are so low and have no CP in hardy as a stam build.

very strange.

Selene hits him for 7.1k. it does about 6k damage on my templar with 26k resistance and 70 points into hardy. So I think it's pretty accurate that it hits him for about 1k more. Different people of course, but it's damage on me is always around 6-6.5k.

MalakithAlamahdi

StackonClown wrote: »

Zos does care - and actually, they have some awesome players at their offices to provide them with feedback which covers the whole playing community.. so there's a good chance what you mention may already be under discussion.
You can watch out for some youtube updates once the meetings are finished.

They should do small updates to balance and fix bugs again. Most people don't enjoy waiting months for a bug or an annoyance to be fixed. And it's not really like this is a new subject, unless they really enjoy oneshotting people with proc sets I don't see a reason why they would allow this to continue. All they did now was *** of high level PvE players.

Izaki

Reefo wrote: »

you got hit with a non-crit 3685 viper proc... if this guys tooltip is 8500 (mighty CP and minor berserk)
then that means you have like 13% resistance with armor and CP combined.

ie: 3685 x2 (battle spirit) = 7370
(8500 - 7370) / 8500 = 13.3% before 50% damage reduction on battle spirit.

thats like sorc with shields down and all points in bastion, but since you got healed by vigor, either playing with someone or your resistances are so low and have no CP in hardy as a stam build.

very strange.

Penetration exists you know that right?

Reefo

LOL why even wear impen when that *** hits so hard
looks like reinforced will be a good trait again.

honeslty tho thats messed up, but i encountered 1 stam sorc using velidreth, viper, redmountain
Dude charges a heavy attack then flurry (viper, veli, mountain all proc)

Reefo

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Penetration exists you know that right?

yeah i heard of that penetration thing, but if this guy is saying 21% in hardy, even if that nb reduced his armor to 0 (sharpened + fracture + CP + maybe spriggan?) its still a lot of damage to take from a non crit

Berenhir

Reefo wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Penetration exists you know that right?

yeah i heard of that penetration thing, but if this guy is saying 21% in hardy, even if that nb reduced his armor to 0 (sharpened + fracture + CP + maybe spriggan?) its still a lot of damage to take from a non crit

Hardy is always rendered void by mighty. Penetration stripped him practically naked. 2600 crit resist will only lower the opponent's critical modifier by .37, with an average crit modifier of NBs around 1.8 this will make crits hit with 1.43 x base damage, depending on build.

So he actually took a lot less damage than he would have when proc sets still critted.

olsborg

Who cares if it can crit or not, the base dmg is way too high.

BNOC

Procs will never get fixed IMO - they're a tool for average players, essentially a catch-up-mechanic or a "fair-play-mechanic" (I use this term very loosely because it's in no way fair) if you want to call it either of those, that allows people who aren't good at the game to compete.

When procs are STILL hitting more than your normal attacks and even ultimate, that's a problem - Please stop catering to scrubs, they don't learn anything about your game this way, except how to abuse whatever the meta is.

I guess it all stems from the fact it's probably not a fun game if you suck.

technohic

I'm not sure why we are talking about someone resists when it comes to proc sets. It hits harder than any of the attackers other abilities, all being equal. What more needs to be said?

ManDraKE

yeah, selene and velidreth are still hitting too hard, even without crits the base damage is huge, the tooltip is higher than dawnbreaker and incap (and those are ultimates...).

Arthg

This is just insane.
Hitting that hard without consuming any resources, without actually doing anything... Insane.

Whoever introduced these sets should be ashamed of themselves.

Minalan

olsborg wrote: »

Who cares if it can crit or not, the base dmg is way too high.

Selenes has been outrageous since release. I don't get how a two piece monster set does better than a five piece viper. That needs to be adjusted.

Nellzer

BNOC wrote: »

Procs will never get fixed IMO - they're a tool for average players, essentially a catch-up-mechanic or a "fair-play-mechanic" (I use this term very loosely because it's in no way fair) if you want to call it either of those, that allows people who aren't good at the game to compete.

When procs are STILL hitting more than your normal attacks and even ultimate, that's a problem - Please stop catering to scrubs, they don't learn anything about your game this way, except how to abuse whatever the meta is.

I guess it all stems from the fact it's probably not a fun game if you suck.

Eh, I disagree. Most competitive players are using proc sets because, although they're cheesy, you can't afford to put yourself at such a disadvantage by NOT using them. Even in PvP, outside of the occasional 'non-meta' video that a streamer might make, or if they actually want to disadvantage themselves for a more fun/challenging experience, most of the best players are using them from what I've seen.

So, it really isn't a catch-up at all, the sets cancel each other out on the great and average players, and you're left with the difference in skill the was there in the first place.

Xeniph

Arthg wrote: »

This is just insane.
Hitting that hard without consuming any resources, without actually doing anything... Insane.

Whoever introduced these sets should be ashamed of themselves.

To be fair none of us have any clue if the attacker "did anything" to achieve that damage.

Maybe someone cast mark on you in between those attacks, or maybe the guy poped a potion and proc'd Alchemist. A lot could have happened.

However, you must keep in mind that after incap, all damage you do to the target is increased by 20% for a while. Hence the large Selene hit.

Some of these numbers look a bit tame tbh. I average around 8-9k on the incap (spiking as high as 13k) and around 3.5-5 on Ambush.

And as to some people complaining the proc is more than Dawnbreaker, that's supjective. As it totally depends on the target. I personally see a lot of 9k dawnbreakers on the initial burst, for my stam sorc.

I personally love proc sets, without them burst is more predictable. I don't enjoy 5 minute plus fights, so boring. I love going back through my combat log trying to figure out what destroyed me. Then learning how to avoid that situation or mitigate it.

To each their own.

Synozeer

ManDraKE wrote: »

yeah, selene and velidreth are still hitting too hard, even without crits the base damage is huge, the tooltip is higher than dawnbreaker and incap (and those are ultimates...).

Don't forget to include the Surprise Attack debuff that applied on all the following attacks.

Pallio

Zo$ does not care, but, I would expect even more nerfs coming to satisfy the tears of pvpers, which will also probably only effect pve.

Thelon

Xeniph wrote: »

I personally love proc sets, without them burst is more predictable.

You just went full potato. Never go full potato

ManDraKE

Synozeer wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

yeah, selene and velidreth are still hitting too hard, even without crits the base damage is huge, the tooltip is higher than dawnbreaker and incap (and those are ultimates...).

Don't forget to include the Surprise Attack debuff that applied on all the following attacks.

but that is a debuff from a class skilline, nothing wrong with that. Proc sets get buffed by everything, the problem is not "everything", the problem are the proc sets.

Xeniph

Thelon wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

I personally love proc sets, without them burst is more predictable.

You just went full potato. Never go full potato

I did say "To each their own" AND You took the quoted out of context. I love playing against proc sets.

I could say the exact same thing of people that roam in a duo or more about "going potato". It's all subjective.

Complaint about proc sets simply boils down to the fact that someone died and didn't like it.

To give an example, I have a build that does upwards of 35k in one shot with absolutely zero proc sets and people still complain.

Some people expect fair and equal fights in Cyrodiil. In which case you might as well head to Rawl and duel all day. My idea of "fun" pvp is the ability to put people down before they can react and attempt to get away from their friends, to do it all over again. /shrug

NBrookus

jrhauck7ub17_ESO wrote: »

So, it really isn't a catch-up at all, the sets cancel each other out on the great and average players, and you're left with the difference in skill the was there in the first place.

This is only true if you play a class with access to sets with this kind of synergy; mostly stamina. Since the OP is in medium, they do -- but then it's just a contest of who attacks first and gets lucky RNG with their procs. That doesn't leave room for skillful play.

Sandman929

I don't see how wanting skillful play and wanting armor doing more damage than skills (and in some cases, Ultimates) can possibly go hand in hand.

worsttankever

Xeniph wrote: »

My idea of "fun" pvp is the ability to put people down before they can react and attempt to get away from their friends, to do it all over again. /shrug

IMO that's incredibly unfun and unfair. I hope for more than Tamriel Horse Simulator, especially if geared for tankiness and not caught unaware.

Xeniph

worsttankever wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

My idea of "fun" pvp is the ability to put people down before they can react and attempt to get away from their friends, to do it all over again. /shrug

IMO that's incredibly unfun and unfair. I hope for more than Tamriel Horse Simulator, especially if geared for tankiness and not caught unaware.

If you are actually geared for Tankiness, it won't happen. Unless you are terribly outgeared or are bad.

However those folks that receive their tankiness from 20k of shields stacks deserve what they get if they let their shields drop. Or those that rely on stealth to mitigate damage and are not in it.

However you may need to rethinks your definition of tankiness if you aren't sporting 25k+ resistances and have atleast 25-26k health with a shiled equipped. Otherwise you are just a hybrid dps. Aka Dps with a bit of survivability.

Knowing when to block, breaking free in a timely manner, using radiant magelight is usually enough to make a gank completely fail.
Take the OP's screenshot. He didn't block once, didn't roll dodge, and probably didn't break free in time. Now some of that could have been due to ping rate, who knows.

I can respect you don't enjoy that playstyle, therefore you probably adjust your playstyle to combat it. But I have no sympathy for the folks that jus add a few hp's and don't do anything to counter the playstyle and just complain.

It's super simple to avoid/neuter gankers if you use the counters and gear properly for what I like to call "Visible" combat play. I do it with all my other classes to great success, when I get bored of ganking.

As to unfair. If you want that, you may need to look into duels. Or you could group up and shift the advantage to you. As the single most unfair thing in pvp is being outnumbered, which results in much more damage per second than all the proc sets combined.

I have never understood the "unfair" argument. It's not like we all have the same abilities/stats/class/race/gear...let alone the same hardware running the game (pc) or ping. Nothing is ever fair.