Upcoming Battlegrounds: How would you Exploit & Metagame it

HeroOfNone

Time for a small thought experiment guys, think up all the ways you would exploit or metagame battlegrounds.

This does not mean you should or would do it, but try to identify potential issues. ZOS has put up some decent controls in the past, but it's clear that some folks out there are cleaver enough to find a way to exploit any system. So, try to think about how you would do it, post it, and hopefully when testing starts in May there will be some decent mechanics to counter such behavoir.


My current thoughts
- What will prevent me and my guild mates from flooding the queue with 4 man groups In hopes of getting one or more team in the same fight? That could lead to my friends throwing the fight or let me group 8v4 on others
- If someone ends up stuck in terrain, I could just keep hitting them at distance so they can't unstuck. Since we have no suicide keys, it's easy to keep them there till they log.
- If I a flag is an interactable, I can just constantly cast caltrops and stealth around the flag. No one is going anywhere with that.
- if I see a hard group to fight, can I quite without consequence? If so, why not constantly quit until I have easy groups to boost my leaderboard status?


There are some examples, let's see what others can come up with so they can be planned for now.

runagate

Isn't it just going to be pairs of blazeplars with chokethorn and wardens with teleport traps?

HeroOfNone

runagate wrote: »

Isn't it just going to be pairs of blazeplars with chokethorn and wardens with teleport traps?

I wouldn't assume that today's meta will be tomorrow's. They could nerf several things or apply a different battle spirit buff. However, it is worth noting that a match could never end if everyone is doing a current meta tank/healer group and a flag carrier can never die.

Ballzy321

runagate wrote: »

Isn't it just going to be pairs of blazeplars with chokethorn and wardens with teleport traps?

This for sure

Gedalya

By ignoring it.

RinaldoGandolphi

The biggest issue with Battlegrounds will be class balance. This will be very apparent. Many of the imbalances between classes that was not noticeable in Cyrodiil will be brought to the forefront.

My only prediction will be the disparities in class balance that will cause a lot of issues.

Pallio

Red/Yellow will team up on Blue, as usual, then whatever the new OP pvp builds duke it out. Tanks hang back and wait to turtle each other for the win.

IcyDeadPeople

Pallio wrote: »

Red/Yellow will team up on Blue, as usual, then whatever the new OP pvp builds duke it out. Tanks hang back and wait to turtle each other for the win.

The team composition in battlegrounds is apparently random, not based on your alliance faction.

templesus

Teams of blazing shieldplars that are unkillable capping flags

jlboozer

The best way to farm kills will be just like Destiny...go invis and camp the capture point/flag, invisibility/stealth will be king!!

DragonBound

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Time for a small thought experiment guys, think up all the ways you would exploit or metagame battlegrounds.

This does not mean you should or would do it, but try to identify potential issues. ZOS has put up some decent controls in the past, but it's clear that some folks out there are cleaver enough to find a way to exploit any system. So, try to think about how you would do it, post it, and hopefully when testing starts in May there will be some decent mechanics to counter such behavoir.


My current thoughts
- What will prevent me and my guild mates from flooding the queue with 4 man groups In hopes of getting one or more team in the same fight? That could lead to my friends throwing the fight or let me group 8v4 on others
- If someone ends up stuck in terrain, I could just keep hitting them at distance so they can't unstuck. Since we have no suicide keys, it's easy to keep them there till they log.
- If I a flag is an interactable, I can just constantly cast caltrops and stealth around the flag. No one is going anywhere with that.
- if I see a hard group to fight, can I quite without consequence? If so, why not constantly quit until I have easy groups to boost my leaderboard status?


There are some examples, let's see what others can come up with so they can be planned for now.

There are 3 game modes, and one is capture the flag, no one is going to be trolling an area.

Strider_Roshin

This is my concern as well. I don't like the idea of leaderboards if it is 4v4v4. 4v4 would be more appropriate because say idk, Fengrush, Sypherpk or someone else that's popular appears in a group. Now instead of it being split between three groups, it's between a group of 4, and a group of 8.

I'm not saying get rid of 4v4v4, I'm saying keep the leaderboards in the realm of fair competition. I also believe there should be a leaderboard for non-CP battlegrounds as well, this way everyone has a fair chance at it.

DragonBound

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The biggest issue with Battlegrounds will be class balance. This will be very apparent. Many of the imbalances between classes that was not noticeable in Cyrodiil will be brought to the forefront.

My only prediction will be the disparities in class balance that will cause a lot of issues.

I am sure they are aware and we will have another balance patch by then.

Strider_Roshin

I also think there shouldn't be anymore than 2 of each class per team. Or perhaps only 1 of each class; that should make things interesting. Because as it stands, you're probably going to see a team of 3 magDKs, and one magplar destroying everyone.

Ackwalan

The first thing that comes to mind, is that it won't be 4X4X4, it will be 8X4.

phairdon

Already see players running around Cyrodiil almost permablocking, able to fend off a multitude of players. Can only image how much fun bringing that to battlegrounds is going to be............

Strider_Roshin

phairdon wrote: »

Already see players running around Cyrodiil almost permablocking, able to fend off a multitude of players. Can only image how much fun bringing that to battlegrounds is going to be............

Yeah I'm expecting a lot of groups to have a stam DK with 7500 health regen guarding a magDK or a magplar. Can't wait lol

Minalan

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Already see players running around Cyrodiil almost permablocking, able to fend off a multitude of players. Can only image how much fun bringing that to battlegrounds is going to be............

Yeah I'm expecting a lot of groups to have a stam DK with 7500 health regen guarding a magDK or a magplar. Can't wait lol

Guard on a magplar, with two other magplar casting synchronized EoTS. GG

BlazingDynamo

Hard to say until we actually know how it's gonna work

HeroOfNone

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Hard to say until we actually know how it's gonna work

Sadly when it's here we won't be able to talk openly about exploits or meta gaming once it's here. This may even be s grey area right now. But just speculate what could go wrong.

wolfydog

I wouldn't be surprised if champion points don't matter here, or every is set to be equal in some way.

They say they want it to be fast like a first person shooter and in every FPS, every is basically the same ability wise, same health pool.

If they want the games to be fast and lots of killing, it cant be like pvp now with nearly unkillable tanks and stuff.

Biro123

Perhaps they do it so you choose a 'role' and you get given a particular class with a particular gear set to play as which fulfils that role. I kind of hope they don't cos one of the things I like about PVP in MMO's is the build-crafting. But without something, you'll just see all groups built to be simply unkillable by the other 8 players - and it will be possible.

out51d3r

Collusion between teams will DEFINITELY be a thing, especially higher in the ranks. First step to dealing with that is making sure the second and third place teams in the match get the same amount of points. If second place gets more than third, any teams that like eachother will just team up on the third team, because it will guarantee points to both of them.

Jade1986

I cant believe they actually went ahead and put in 4v4, even if it is 4v4v4. It has been proven time and again that small scale pvp is way less popular than say 8v8v8 and that it murders pvp. But whatever. Ill give it a shot, and am happy to see they finally put a nature magic class in, right up my alley with my hippie dippie gothic self. ^^

Solariken

I'm calling it now, the leaderboard will be full of groups of 4 SnB magplars whose only strategy is to ball up and block-cast BoL until they gap close spam into destro-ult-pocalypse.

s7732425ub17_ESO

If there are enough groups queuing for battlegrounds, your first point will be made insignificant. Probability of getting 8v4 would be very low, and when it does happen, oh well, just accept it and move on to the next battle.

Your other issues have been solved already by plenty of other games. Obvious time limit on matches to prevent endless battles. No quitting without consequences. Obviously you will be able to take flags or whatnot at any time no matter if caltrops are on the ground.

NewBlacksmurf

You all prob shouldn't discuss it but oh well

Biro123

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You all prob shouldn't discuss it but oh well

The point is giving ZoS time to address this stuff before it's released.

Yubarius

I think that some skipped over ultimates and abilities in open world pvp could finally be useful. By this I mean things like wall of elements or veil of blades could be used to secure points/flags.

NewBlacksmurf

Biro123 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You all prob shouldn't discuss it but oh well

The point is giving ZoS time to address this stuff before it's released.

Address what stuff

No one has any actual idea of what to expect other than the very brief info we got this week.
We actually know almost nothing

-4x4x4
-three maps

No clue if that relates to faction, roles, if it's AP, Tel Var or something new, no idea on rewards if any and no context on scoring for said leaderboard

Kinda seems like shooting yourself in the foot cause you might talk them out of something and never experience it or talk them into to something you don't want to experience


Just my opinion tho as the title doesn't suggest feedback. It's talking about exploits and elitist stuff

HeroOfNone

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

If there are enough groups queuing for battlegrounds, your first point will be made insignificant. Probability of getting 8v4 would be very low, and when it does happen, oh well, just accept it and move on to the next battle.

Your other issues have been solved already by plenty of other games. Obvious time limit on matches to prevent endless battles. No quitting without consequences. Obviously you will be able to take flags or whatnot at any time no matter if caltrops are on the ground.

I think we will see good numbers at launch, but what about at midnight, months after release? The number of players may dwindle where it could be an issue. I wouldn't put it past folks to meta boost, we already see it now.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You all prob shouldn't discuss it but oh well

The point is giving ZoS time to address this stuff before it's released.

Address what stuff

No one has any actual idea of what to expect other than the very brief info we got this week.
We actually know almost nothing

-4x4x4
-three maps

No clue if that relates to faction, roles, if it's AP, Tel Var or something new, no idea on rewards if any and no context on scoring for said leaderboard

Kinda seems like shooting yourself in the foot cause you might talk them out of something and never experience it or talk them into to something you don't want to experience


Just my opinion tho as the title doesn't suggest feedback. It's talking about exploits and elitist stuff

We know it's 4v4v4, without a faction, and it will involve 3 play modes.

But, you have knowledge of other games and of ESO, so you can venture a guess at something, and hopefully at release it won't occur. The ideas above are just some of the ways I've seen things done on other games, so here's to hoping they wor to prevent that.