Good, flexible, non-gimmicky class?

Dao_Jones

Hey all - yet another returning player here.

I've always hated classes that rely on a gimmick to be successful. The class that's "amazingly OP" because of one OP skill, or built around one item set, or requires one specific rotation that every single player will use because it's the only thing that makes the class good.

So...

1. Is there a class that has a good variety of successful builds, where you're not ultimately forced to use one weapon, or build around 1-2 skills, because everything else is garbage?

2. Same question, but Magicka vs. Stamina. Do one of them allow more play flexibility than the other?

I know the general answer is "yeah, that's possible for every class", but in my experience that's only true in the most general terms. There are always some classes that do well in flexibility, and others that are basically "one or two great builds, and a lot of really terrible ones."

Strider_Roshin

I think they're all kind of gimmicky to be honest. In terms of flexibility, magicka has endlessly more going for it.

Easiest class to play is a magicka Templar.
Hardest class to play is a stamina Nightblade.
The strongest classes in the game once homestead goes live will be the magicka Dragonknight or the magicka Sorcerer.

BlackSparrow

Dao_Jones wrote: »

I know the general answer is "yeah, that's possible for every class"...."

That is almost exactly what I was about the type.

The current meta doesn't really matter, because there's a balance patch coming out next week that will adjust the meta. Personally, I never cater to the meta anyway, so I can't speak much to that.

But I do have at least two characters of each class, so can speak to flexibility.

No matter what, every class is going to have a thing they're good at. Call it a gimmick if you want. Nightblade has its cloak ability, Templar has its healing, Sorc has its pets, and DK has its defense skills. The cloak and the pets strike me as most "gimmicky" but you can build an NB and sorc without using them.

Okay, admittedly, Nightblade is REALLY hard to do without stealth. So in terms of flexibility, I'd say they're least flexible. XD

The other three classes offer some variety of build options, though. I have a sorc who uses pets and a sorc who uses lightning abilities to enhance her melee fighting. I have a DK who stands and tanks, and a DK who stands back and blasts her enemies with fire. I have a templar who heals in heavy armor like a paladin, and I have a templar who snipes from a distance with her bow.

As far as stamina vs magicka... either way, you'll have to limit yourself. Magicka gives you the full gamut of class skills but the only weapons open to you are Destruction and Restoratuon staffs. Meanwhile, take stamina and you have your pick of weapon abilities, but you're limited by weaker class skills except the few that have stamina morphs. For flexibility, I personally prefer stamina, because you can change up your playstyle across your bars by swapping from weapon-and-shield to bow, or two-handed to duel-wielding. Staffs are... just staffs. They feel the same no matter which one you're wielding.

There are character builders out there. It might be a good idea to play around on one of those to see what works. My personal preference is just create a character and dive in... respecs aren't so expensive that you can't re-do your build if it doesn't work (with the exception of the class, anyway)

ADarklore

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Dao_Jones wrote: »

I know the general answer is "yeah, that's possible for every class"...."

That is almost exactly what I was about the type.

The current meta doesn't really matter, because there's a balance patch coming out next week that will adjust the meta. Personally, I never cater to the meta anyway, so I can't speak much to that.

But I do have at least two characters of each class, so can speak to flexibility.

No matter what, every class is going to have a thing they're good at. Call it a gimmick if you want. Nightblade has its cloak ability, Templar has its healing, Sorc has its pets, and DK has its defense skills. The cloak and the pets strike me as most "gimmicky" but you can build an NB and sorc without using them.

Okay, admittedly, Nightblade is REALLY hard to do without stealth. So in terms of flexibility, I'd say they're least flexible. XD

The other three classes offer some variety of build options, though. I have a sorc who uses pets and a sorc who uses lightning abilities to enhance her melee fighting. I have a DK who stands and tanks, and a DK who stands back and blasts her enemies with fire. I have a templar who heals in heavy armor like a paladin, and I have a templar who snipes from a distance with her bow.

As far as stamina vs magicka... either way, you'll have to limit yourself. Magicka gives you the full gamut of class skills but the only weapons open to you are Destruction and Restoratuon staffs. Meanwhile, take stamina and you have your pick of weapon abilities, but you're limited by weaker class skills except the few that have stamina morphs. For flexibility, I personally prefer stamina, because you can change up your playstyle across your bars by swapping from weapon-and-shield to bow, or two-handed to duel-wielding. Staffs are... just staffs. They feel the same no matter which one you're wielding.

There are character builders out there. It might be a good idea to play around on one of those to see what works. My personal preference is just create a character and dive in... respecs aren't so expensive that you can't re-do your build if it doesn't work (with the exception of the class, anyway)

^THIS.. the bolded! When will ZOS give Magic users another weapon option?!? Simply offering a singular weapon with extremely little variety using the exact same skill tree... it's just plain dumb. They could offer other weapons as well to make things more variable... how about a magical sword, or even a wand, just give us something other than only staves.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

ADarklore wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Dao_Jones wrote: »

I know the general answer is "yeah, that's possible for every class"...."

That is almost exactly what I was about the type.

The current meta doesn't really matter, because there's a balance patch coming out next week that will adjust the meta. Personally, I never cater to the meta anyway, so I can't speak much to that.

But I do have at least two characters of each class, so can speak to flexibility.

No matter what, every class is going to have a thing they're good at. Call it a gimmick if you want. Nightblade has its cloak ability, Templar has its healing, Sorc has its pets, and DK has its defense skills. The cloak and the pets strike me as most "gimmicky" but you can build an NB and sorc without using them.

Okay, admittedly, Nightblade is REALLY hard to do without stealth. So in terms of flexibility, I'd say they're least flexible. XD

The other three classes offer some variety of build options, though. I have a sorc who uses pets and a sorc who uses lightning abilities to enhance her melee fighting. I have a DK who stands and tanks, and a DK who stands back and blasts her enemies with fire. I have a templar who heals in heavy armor like a paladin, and I have a templar who snipes from a distance with her bow.

As far as stamina vs magicka... either way, you'll have to limit yourself. Magicka gives you the full gamut of class skills but the only weapons open to you are Destruction and Restoratuon staffs. Meanwhile, take stamina and you have your pick of weapon abilities, but you're limited by weaker class skills except the few that have stamina morphs. For flexibility, I personally prefer stamina, because you can change up your playstyle across your bars by swapping from weapon-and-shield to bow, or two-handed to duel-wielding. Staffs are... just staffs. They feel the same no matter which one you're wielding.

There are character builders out there. It might be a good idea to play around on one of those to see what works. My personal preference is just create a character and dive in... respecs aren't so expensive that you can't re-do your build if it doesn't work (with the exception of the class, anyway)

^THIS.. the bolded! When will ZOS give Magic users another weapon option?!? Simply offering a singular weapon with extremely little variety using the exact same skill tree... it's just plain dumb. They could offer other weapons as well to make things more variable... how about a magical sword, or even a wand, just give us something other than only staves.

Going to push back a little bit on this. Yes if you wear a robe, you likely have a staff or Double swords. Staffs do all have the same skills, but they do play very differently from a functionality standpoint. The differences between them will be even more noticeable next patch.

Dao_Jones

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

The strongest classes in the game once homestead goes live will be the magicka Dragonknight or the magicka Sorcerer.

Huh. Well, my original character was a Magicka Dragonknight (cuz fire), so maybe I'll get to come into Homestead with a pre-baked OP class right out of the gate. (Although I haven't touched him since 2014, so he's probably hopelessly undergeared and skilled terribly.)

BlackSparrow wrote: »

No matter what, every class is going to have a thing they're good at. Call it a gimmick if you want. Nightblade has its cloak ability, Templar has its healing, Sorc has its pets, and DK has its defense skills. The cloak and the pets strike me as most "gimmicky" but you can build an NB and sorc without using them.

I probably misstated my argument; I'm not against classes that have an innate "thing" that animates them (like stealth, or ranged attacks, or pets).

It's more that I hate it when a class is "good" because maybe ONE skill is overpowered, and essentially everyone uses that skill and builds around it, and if you *don't* do that, the class is mediocre. Or a situation where something (like pets, for example) are unbalanced in the game, so a pet-heavy class is "OP" because the mechanic of pets is broken.

If someone said "Magicka Templars are great, because they have a lot of useful skills, and can function competently as any two of DPS/Heal/Tank", that would perfectly suit me.

If someone said "Magicka Templars are great, because you can slot Skill A on your bar, animation cancel three other skills before it, and then Skill A does CRAZY OP PWNZ DAMAGE", then that would be an example of something I don't like.

Unfortunately, I like being sneaky, I like big magic kaboom-y stuff, and sometimes I like just diving in with a big sword and causing havoc. I doubt any one class can do all three, so I guess I need to decide which two appeal to me most, and do that.

AlexanderDeLarge

I don't think the term to use here is "gimmicky". If you're watching YouTube builds made by top-tier PVE/PVP players, of course their builds are going to specialize down to the detail of having every single equipment piece. If that's not your style, you can still build a character without spending 20 hours of research.

A player that understands the mechanics and skills and uses them properly will beat a player that does a standard rotation mindlessly.

souravami

Roll a magplar or stamsorc. You'll never look back.

STEVIL

1. Is there a class that has a good variety of successful builds, where you're not ultimately forced to use one weapon, or build around 1-2 skills, because everything else is garbage?

For all it depends on what you want to do. Classes "generally" dont have "a weapon" since "classes" can be effective either as stamina or magica or tank and the weapons feed off different stats. So, weapon limitations are typically tied to your choice for mag/stam and your choice for role - tank, healer, dps.


2. Same question, but Magicka vs. Stamina. Do one of them allow more play flexibility than the other?

Mostly stam use Dw or 2H or bow or Sword and shield. those do physical damage and their abilities run off stamina and their heavy attacks return stamina. All that ties in with stamina based builds.

Mostly mag use destro staves and resto staves but keep in mind that especially in 4 days the destro staves are three different animals. Fire staves - single target damage is best. Lightning stave - AOE damage is best. Ice Staves - defensive option - akin to sword and board.

So you see, depending on what you want to do, the weapon should fit your attribute choice and vice versa.

here are my viewpoints but others may vary

SORC - good as stam and mag. good variety. i typically use mag sorc or stam sorc for dungeon and 4d-delve soloing.
TEMP - good as mag and ok as stam - to me less variety than the sorc but the strongest healing options in the game.
NB - good as mag and OK as stam - best stealth option in the game.
DK - i really just never like the class. Have run three to vet/160 and always meh. However, i believe it is one of the tankiest.you can get so...

all comes down to what you want.

i dont think there is an objectively right answer - just many subjective ones.

Mr_Nobody

Dragonknight

masterbroodub17_ESO

ADarklore wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Dao_Jones wrote: »

I know the general answer is "yeah, that's possible for every class"...."

That is almost exactly what I was about the type.

The current meta doesn't really matter, because there's a balance patch coming out next week that will adjust the meta. Personally, I never cater to the meta anyway, so I can't speak much to that.

But I do have at least two characters of each class, so can speak to flexibility.

No matter what, every class is going to have a thing they're good at. Call it a gimmick if you want. Nightblade has its cloak ability, Templar has its healing, Sorc has its pets, and DK has its defense skills. The cloak and the pets strike me as most "gimmicky" but you can build an NB and sorc without using them.

Okay, admittedly, Nightblade is REALLY hard to do without stealth. So in terms of flexibility, I'd say they're least flexible. XD

The other three classes offer some variety of build options, though. I have a sorc who uses pets and a sorc who uses lightning abilities to enhance her melee fighting. I have a DK who stands and tanks, and a DK who stands back and blasts her enemies with fire. I have a templar who heals in heavy armor like a paladin, and I have a templar who snipes from a distance with her bow.

As far as stamina vs magicka... either way, you'll have to limit yourself. Magicka gives you the full gamut of class skills but the only weapons open to you are Destruction and Restoratuon staffs. Meanwhile, take stamina and you have your pick of weapon abilities, but you're limited by weaker class skills except the few that have stamina morphs. For flexibility, I personally prefer stamina, because you can change up your playstyle across your bars by swapping from weapon-and-shield to bow, or two-handed to duel-wielding. Staffs are... just staffs. They feel the same no matter which one you're wielding.

There are character builders out there. It might be a good idea to play around on one of those to see what works. My personal preference is just create a character and dive in... respecs aren't so expensive that you can't re-do your build if it doesn't work (with the exception of the class, anyway)

^THIS.. the bolded! When will ZOS give Magic users another weapon option?!? Simply offering a singular weapon with extremely little variety using the exact same skill tree... it's just plain dumb. They could offer other weapons as well to make things more variable... how about a magical sword, or even a wand, just give us something other than only staves.

Or a ranged stamina option AT ALL lol.

Problem is they are constantly balancing the existing weapons, I doubt they want to muddy the waters even further >.<

RavenSworn

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Dao_Jones wrote: »

I know the general answer is "yeah, that's possible for every class"...."

That is almost exactly what I was about the type.

The current meta doesn't really matter, because there's a balance patch coming out next week that will adjust the meta. Personally, I never cater to the meta anyway, so I can't speak much to that.

But I do have at least two characters of each class, so can speak to flexibility.

No matter what, every class is going to have a thing they're good at. Call it a gimmick if you want. Nightblade has its cloak ability, Templar has its healing, Sorc has its pets, and DK has its defense skills. The cloak and the pets strike me as most "gimmicky" but you can build an NB and sorc without using them.

Okay, admittedly, Nightblade is REALLY hard to do without stealth. So in terms of flexibility, I'd say they're least flexible. XD

The other three classes offer some variety of build options, though. I have a sorc who uses pets and a sorc who uses lightning abilities to enhance her melee fighting. I have a DK who stands and tanks, and a DK who stands back and blasts her enemies with fire. I have a templar who heals in heavy armor like a paladin, and I have a templar who snipes from a distance with her bow.

As far as stamina vs magicka... either way, you'll have to limit yourself. Magicka gives you the full gamut of class skills but the only weapons open to you are Destruction and Restoratuon staffs. Meanwhile, take stamina and you have your pick of weapon abilities, but you're limited by weaker class skills except the few that have stamina morphs. For flexibility, I personally prefer stamina, because you can change up your playstyle across your bars by swapping from weapon-and-shield to bow, or two-handed to duel-wielding. Staffs are... just staffs. They feel the same no matter which one you're wielding.

There are character builders out there. It might be a good idea to play around on one of those to see what works. My personal preference is just create a character and dive in... respecs aren't so expensive that you can't re-do your build if it doesn't work (with the exception of the class, anyway)

What..... I play my stamina Nightblade just fine without any stealth whatsoever. If it's a gimmick that Nightblade has is not its stealth but siphoning strikes. It's honestly something that you can't live without as a night blade.