After reading today's "Welcome to 2017" message...

Savos_Saren

Still happy that my wife and I are subscribers. I'm glad they addressed the main concern that most subs had: We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

With that being said: My wife and I pre-ordered Morrowind (yesterday, actually) and we're eagerly anticipating its arrival date! Thanks ZoS!

Savos_Saren

[snip]

See, here's my secret: If I think that the latest flaming flying underwater unicorn with the purple aura crown store item is too expensive- I don't buy it. Here's another secret, free of charge: I think crown crates are a waste of crowns- so I don't buy those either. I just save my crowns for something that I might actually want.

However, I have been subscribing since the game's release. I've been happy with the content (Orsinium was amazing) the perks (craft bag is totally worth it) and the extra XP (I'm at CP807).

My only concern was that ZoS needed to keep its bargain by offering DLC free to subscribers... which they confirmed.

One final thing: If you feel that ZoS is "bending you over and ramming you hard" because you don't have the discipline not to buy fake, inanimate garbage- then maybe you should reevaluate your decisions. This is a video game. All this is just luxury and you don't have to buy a damn thing. Cheers.

[Edit to remove baiting]

Kuroinu

I can't wait for TES: VI.

LordGavus

[snip]

jaburns wrote: »

silvf0x wrote: »

It is this attitude of constantly bending over and then, after being rammed hard, turning around to ZOS and saying "please sir, can I have some more" that emboldens them to charge these exorbitant crown store prices and this bait and switch they are doing with DLC/expansion malarkey.

Not in the least, actually.

See, here's my secret: If I think that the latest flaming flying underwater unicorn with the purple aura crown store item is too expensive- I don't buy it. Here's another secret, free of charge: I think crown crates are a waste of crowns- so I don't buy those either. I just save my crowns for something that I might actually want.

However, I have been subscribing since the game's release. I've been happy with the content (Orsinium was amazing) the perks (craft bag is totally worth it) and the extra XP (I'm at CP807).

My only concern was that ZoS needed to keep its bargain by offering DLC free to subscribers... which they confirmed.

One final thing: If you feel that ZoS is "bending you over and ramming you hard" because you don't have the discipline not to buy fake, inanimate garbage- then maybe you should reevaluate your decisions. This is a video game. All this is just luxury and you don't have to buy a damn thing. Cheers.

This right here.

[Edit to remove baiting]

Publius_Scipio

I think it struck a good tone. Clearly explained what to expect throughout the year. And was honest about PvP lag and performance.

I think ZOS has momentum on their side and that Morrowind will be awesome.

Savos_Saren

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I think it struck a good tone. Clearly explained what to expect throughout the year. And was honest about PvP lag and performance.

I think ZOS has momentum on their side and that Morrowind will be awesome.

Exactly, man. At least they're open and honest. They know they have some flaws to work on- but unlike what most forum warriors think- you don't just "change the program" with a few taps on the keyboard.

It's great that people voice their opinions and *constructive criticisms*- but some people just only bring complaints and worthless criticism.

esotoon

jaburns wrote: »

My only concern was that ZoS needed to keep its bargain by offering DLC free to subscribers... which they confirmed.

They haven't kept their bargain to offer 4 DLC over the past year, so what makes you think they will keep to their bargain going forward from Q3 2017?

ETA: Sorry that sounds far snarkier in text than meant. I'm happy that you are ok with it. :-) I'm just curious that if your concern was having access to free DLC why you would be happy with not having received 3 lots of promised DLC, and also still trust ZOS to deliver on their newly promised DLC program in the future?

probablyafk

I want Morrowind to be amazing but I think it will be small compared to other games expansions.

Go look at a list of what you get in other games when they do an expansion and then look at the feature list here.

I also am no longer sure if it's worth subscribing because, previously, this gave me access to content. I feel that the content I recieved for my money has become less and less over the last year until it was a tiny trickle. Thus my subscription now only covers a bag and some in game benefits.

It's good that we continue to get DLC after Morrowind but there is no reason to believe the content provided will be significant when even a paid for expansion is small when compared to other games. And not even large when compared to the DLC provided by sub.

Rohamad_Ali

OP I'm glad you and your wife are happy . Have a blast in Marrowind . I wish I was just as excited but not every update is for everyone . Maybe I'll get lucky next year and a Khajiit centric expansion will come out .

Betheny

jaburns wrote: »

We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

It's possible that the DLC could be set in a Chapters area, so would require you to buy that first to access the free DLC.

Savos_Saren

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

OP I'm glad you and your wife are happy . Have a blast in Marrowind . I wish I was just as excited but not every update is for everyone . Maybe I'll get lucky next year and a Khajiit centric expansion will come out .

Sorry that you missed out on this one, bud. My khajiit stamsorc tank, Thunderous Roar, will join you when that's released!

Savos_Saren

Betheny wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

It's possible that the DLC could be set in a Chapters area, so would require you to buy that first to access the free DLC.

@Betheny

Not from what today's post states:

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription, but new Chapter content is available only via retail (including digital retail) game or upgrade purchase if you already own ESO.

Elsonso

Betheny wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

It's possible that the DLC could be set in a Chapters area, so would require you to buy that first to access the free DLC.

Somehow, I don't think that is going to be a big issue.

Betheny

jaburns wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

It's possible that the DLC could be set in a Chapters area, so would require you to buy that first to access the free DLC.

@Betheny

Not from what today's post states:

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription, but new Chapter content is available only via retail (including digital retail) game or upgrade purchase if you already own ESO.

The DLC will be free yes, but that doesn't mean it won't be set in a Chapters area (meaning you'd need to buy that first to access your free content).

It's all in the wording.

Ourorboros

jaburns wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

It's possible that the DLC could be set in a Chapters area, so would require you to buy that first to access the free DLC.

@Betheny

Not from what today's post states:

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription, but new Chapter content is available only via retail (including digital retail) game or upgrade purchase if you already own ESO.

You do realize much of the recent forum uproar is because zos said one thing, then changed that without warning to something completely different? It would be nice if the above statement were true, but zos has pulled this same stunt several times. Enough for me to trust only what they do, not what they say. We haven't had 8 DLCs in the past two years.There have been 5. Everything else has been updates that applied to everyone, not just subbers. I expect the same pattern will apply to the future DLC. I recommend looking at some of the posts comparing the cost of subbing vs buying DLC outright. You can save a lot of money without that craft bag. Of course, if the money is not an issue the craft bag is awesome.

WeyounTM

esotoon wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

My only concern was that ZoS needed to keep its bargain by offering DLC free to subscribers... which they confirmed.

They haven't kept their bargain to offer 4 DLC over the past year, so what makes you think they will keep to their bargain going forward from Q3 2017?

Yes, they haven't actually released 4 full-blown DLC last year. But please don't forget that One Tamriel was a huge update and it was realllllly important for the rest of the game. And though it was a free update...at no costs to anyone who owns the game....it surely wasn't developed at no cost for ZOS. Homestead will be a free update to.

So you say you would rather not have those 2 big updates and instead would like to have content that everyone has to pay for?

probablyafk

WeyounTM wrote: »

Yes, they haven't actually released 4 full-blown DLC last year. But please don't forget that One Tamriel was a huge update and it was realllllly important for the rest of the game. And though it was a free update...at no costs to anyone who owns the game....it surely wasn't developed at no cost for ZOS. Homestead will be a free update to.

So you say you would rather not have those 2 big updates and instead would like to have content that everyone has to pay for?

Free updates are important for ZOS to retain their large player base. They need the player base because that forms their market for sellable in-game items (crown store). Without retaining a large playerbase the F2P model dies.

Paid updates (DLCs) are important for ZOS to retain their large subscriber base and as things to sell to their F2P players. Without paid content there is nothing to buy, which means no money, which means no game. The minor exception to this is some in-game incentives which are provided to subscribers as a means of easing the pain of pre-paying for content.

Historically ESO needs both F2P and subscription players to flourish. Without both things were ... not so good.

That is, and has been, the model that was presented to the community. Both free and paid for content are necessary. Without free content you lose F2P players, without paid content you lose subscribers.

There is an implicit promise about what subscribes gain - some would argue it's been very explicity from tweets in the past - for their regular fee. This includes 4 DLCs a year. Not only has this not eventuated but the quality of the actual content that was delivered has been severely lacking.

And now we have Morrowind - a new type of content that doesn't fit into the old model. This is the part where you should be yelling: Everyone has to pay!

If Morrowind is absolutely awesome then all this will blow over because, quite obviously, subscribers are willing to pay for content. They might squirm that they have to pay more now but they'll mostly pay. They might unsubscribe after but if Morrowind is good then maybe ZOS thinks this is a worthwhile exchange - lose some subscribers but make everyone else pay $40 once every year or two.

If Morrowind is not absolutely awesome then things start to get worrying. Subscribers now unsubscribe because they don't feel they get content their subscription should be paying for and they have to pay additional for what they once thought they got naturally over the course of a year. Conversly the F2P players are not playing a F2P game anymore, they're playing a $40/year game now. They are also not going to buy the DLC content because, well, it's crap compared with the Expansions. So ZOS is left making money mainly from the expansions, but the Expansions are only so-so, and so the game shrinks. It's not a WoW situation with everybody-pays-all-the-time so if ZOS lose subscribers this really hurts them - they don't get the money in the bank to make better expansions to dig them out again.

Even if you like Morrowind and think the price is good for what you get, as a player who cares about the game this should be somewhat concerning. It's in everyones interests to push ZOS to add content to Morrowind, to make it better, to make it comparable with what other games offer for their expansions - and to make it vastly superior, game changing even, to the existing DLC.

I think going to expansions is a really risky move. It's hard to see how this will work with F2P in the historical context of this game. There is already a lot of rumbling that the soul has gone out with crates etc. ESO feels more and more like SWOTOR every day. That games doing ok but ... well, I don't want SWOTOR with fantasy. I want the *** Elder Scrolls!

abigfishy

jaburns wrote: »

silvf0x wrote: »

It is this attitude of constantly bending over and then, after being rammed hard, turning around to ZOS and saying "please sir, can I have some more" that emboldens them to charge these exorbitant crown store prices and this bait and switch they are doing with DLC/expansion malarkey.

Not in the least, actually.

See, here's my secret: If I think that the latest flaming flying underwater unicorn with the purple aura crown store item is too expensive- I don't buy it. Here's another secret, free of charge: I think crown crates are a waste of crowns- so I don't buy those either. I just save my crowns for something that I might actually want.

However, I have been subscribing since the game's release. I've been happy with the content (Orsinium was amazing) the perks (craft bag is totally worth it) and the extra XP (I'm at CP807).

My only concern was that ZoS needed to keep its bargain by offering DLC free to subscribers... which they confirmed.

One final thing: If you feel that ZoS is "bending you over and ramming you hard" because you don't have the discipline not to buy fake, inanimate garbage- then maybe you should reevaluate your decisions. This is a video game. All this is just luxury and you don't have to buy a damn thing. Cheers.

Funny I totally agree.

The base game was great value.

The DLCs are totally worth it.

Crown crates are a joke, I bought one and that is it.

99% of the fluf items in the crown store are cool but certainly not needed however I must confess I did buy the zombie horse as it really suited my necromancer character.

ESO+ is an amazing deal but you don't have to have it.

You don't have to spend anything in this game to play, therefor the prices can be a million real dollars for a house, wont bother me, I just wont get it.

Savos_Saren

Betheny wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

It's possible that the DLC could be set in a Chapters area, so would require you to buy that first to access the free DLC.

@Betheny

Not from what today's post states:

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription, but new Chapter content is available only via retail (including digital retail) game or upgrade purchase if you already own ESO.

The DLC will be free yes, but that doesn't mean it won't be set in a Chapters area (meaning you'd need to buy that first to access your free content).

It's all in the wording.

Very true. I wonder if ZoS will clarify that the two DLCs available later this year are for the base game (One Tamriel) or for Morrowind?

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you please clarify?

deleted008293

What I think it will actually happen.

Q1 Small Zone DLC (Hews Bane, Gold Coast like) / Or a free DLC and content pack like Housing for example.
Q2 Large Zone EP
Q3 Dungeon Pack DLC
Q4 Small Zone DLC (Hews Bane, Gold Coast like)
And all of the above dates will also feature small free content, patches and bug fixes. That's what I understood.

Also... I bet by the end of the year we will visit Clockwork City. And 2018 will bring Murkmire as EP and Mephala's realm as a small zone DLC. Probably by 2019 we will visit Summerset Isles or Elsweyr.

AdamBourke

At the end of this year we will get a new zone as DLC.

This will be the first new zone included in subscription for 1.5 years.

This would be bad enough - but the fact that its because they are charging extra for the next new zone is like salt in the wound.

I paid for the subacription because i wanted to suppoet ESO slightly more than just buying the dlc.

But when yiu invest in something, you expect returns on that investment - and they've dried up.

Does anyone know how much dye stamps cost?

Turelus

I'm staying subbed, I have purchased the DLC and I am happy with the game and ZOS.

I do think their constant shifts in business model shows little respect for those they keep making promises to though.

Savos_Saren

nordmarian wrote: »

What I think it will actually happen.

Q1 Small Zone DLC (Hews Bane, Gold Coast like) / Or a free DLC and content pack like Housing for example.
Q2 Large Zone EP
Q3 Dungeon Pack DLC
Q4 Small Zone DLC (Hews Bane, Gold Coast like)
And all of the above dates will also feature small free content, patches and bug fixes. That's what I understood.

Also... I bet by the end of the year we will visit Clockwork City. And 2018 will bring Murkmire as EP and Mephala's realm as a small zone DLC. Probably by 2019 we will visit Summerset Isles or Elsweyr.

This is exactly as I had interpreted the announcement from their webpage.

Wifeaggro13

jaburns wrote: »

Still happy that my wife and I are subscribers. I'm glad they addressed the main concern that most subs had: We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

With that being said: My wife and I pre-ordered Morrowind (yesterday, actually) and we're eagerly anticipating its arrival date! Thanks ZoS!

I agree Subbing is still the best way to play the game. and buying morrowind is really no biggie is it over priced ya its over priced for its feature set. Honestly they should get rid of the B2p option sure it makes them more money of the barbie doll churn player. but it really destorys the community and structure of the in game experience.

alexkdd99

Betheny wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

We will still get new DLC on the base game... it won't be stuck behind the "Chapters" content.

It's possible that the DLC could be set in a Chapters area, so would require you to buy that first to access the free DLC.

@Betheny

Not from what today's post states:

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription, but new Chapter content is available only via retail (including digital retail) game or upgrade purchase if you already own ESO.

The DLC will be free yes, but that doesn't mean it won't be set in a Chapters area (meaning you'd need to buy that first to access your free content).

It's all in the wording.

Which they seem to be good at manipulating.