Class Change

LiquidSchwartz

andreasranasen wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

I'll agree that class change wold be on my wishlist, too.

As a roleplayer, character concept is very important to me, and one of my characters is very much a "ranger / protector of the wilderness" sort of character. If Warden had been available at the time, she would have been that.

That said, I do see the danger of making class change openly available. We'd get a lot of "flavor-of-the-week" builds that way.

Yes, that's my concern as well! "flavor-of-the-week"

With balance improving slowly there shouldn't be a flavor of the week just a preference to gameplay and classes

KochDerDamonen

andreasranasen wrote: »

Yes they won't add class change. This is almost like an entirely new game with it's own tutorial in the beginning of starting this new extension of ESO. So they want you to get to know your class instead of jumping right into it all spec'd out.

It'd be simple to kit out a fresh warden with gold level 15 armor for giggles if I wanted to smash through content like a meme.

andreasranasen wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

I'll agree that class change wold be on my wishlist, too.

As a roleplayer, character concept is very important to me, and one of my characters is very much a "ranger / protector of the wilderness" sort of character. If Warden had been available at the time, she would have been that.

That said, I do see the danger of making class change openly available. We'd get a lot of "flavor-of-the-week" builds that way.

Yes, that's my concern as well! "flavor-of-the-week"

Who cares?
It's easy to have 8 characters, two of each class in stamina/magicka...
Flavor of the week/month/day happens no matter what.
Class change would milk money off someone who would play like that but not level multiple characters...
AND helps someone like me, who would quite like a frost/nature mage and would have made one if it were available from the start.

Faulgor

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Yes they won't add class change. This is almost like an entirely new game with it's own tutorial in the beginning of starting this new extension of ESO. So they want you to get to know your class instead of jumping right into it all spec'd out.

It'd be simple to kit out a fresh warden with gold level 15 armor for giggles if I wanted to smash through content like a meme.

andreasranasen wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

I'll agree that class change wold be on my wishlist, too.

As a roleplayer, character concept is very important to me, and one of my characters is very much a "ranger / protector of the wilderness" sort of character. If Warden had been available at the time, she would have been that.

That said, I do see the danger of making class change openly available. We'd get a lot of "flavor-of-the-week" builds that way.

Yes, that's my concern as well! "flavor-of-the-week"

Who cares?
It's easy to have 8 characters, two of each class in stamina/magicka...
Flavor of the week/month/day happens no matter what.
Class change would milk money off someone who would play like that but not level multiple characters...
AND helps someone like me, who would quite like a frost/nature mage and would have made one if it were available from the start.

Yup, absolutely this. I'm pretty sure most people who play in competitive settings, either PvP or PvE, have at least one character of each class. Flavor-of-the-week is irrelevant for classes, because people just switch to another character or reset their build (yes, that's still allowed, too!).
What most people don't have at least one of? Races. And ZOS had no problem allowing everyone to change to the latest flavor-of-the-week race.

ADarklore

Faulgor wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Yes they won't add class change. This is almost like an entirely new game with it's own tutorial in the beginning of starting this new extension of ESO. So they want you to get to know your class instead of jumping right into it all spec'd out.

It'd be simple to kit out a fresh warden with gold level 15 armor for giggles if I wanted to smash through content like a meme.

andreasranasen wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

I'll agree that class change wold be on my wishlist, too.

As a roleplayer, character concept is very important to me, and one of my characters is very much a "ranger / protector of the wilderness" sort of character. If Warden had been available at the time, she would have been that.

That said, I do see the danger of making class change openly available. We'd get a lot of "flavor-of-the-week" builds that way.

Yes, that's my concern as well! "flavor-of-the-week"

Who cares?
It's easy to have 8 characters, two of each class in stamina/magicka...
Flavor of the week/month/day happens no matter what.
Class change would milk money off someone who would play like that but not level multiple characters...
AND helps someone like me, who would quite like a frost/nature mage and would have made one if it were available from the start.

Yup, absolutely this. I'm pretty sure most people who play in competitive settings, either PvP or PvE, have at least one character of each class. Flavor-of-the-week is irrelevant for classes, because people just switch to another character or reset their build (yes, that's still allowed, too!).
What most people don't have at least one of? Races. And ZOS had no problem allowing everyone to change to the latest flavor-of-the-week race.

And for 3000 Crown per change, they should be allowed to since it builds ZOS' coffers.

Recremen

andreasranasen wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Yes they won't add class change. This is almost like an entirely new game with it's own tutorial in the beginning of starting this new extension of ESO. So they want you to get to know your class instead of jumping right into it all spec'd out.

Well, most people would create a new alt, play it for awhile to get familiar and see if they like it, and then respect to the Warden class on their main. I doubt anyone would respect with a class that they haven't tested first.

Yes that's true. But what would be the point of creating a new character at all if you can just jump class every other day?
Me personally, i cannot wait to try this out and i rather do it from lvl 1 so i can get to know this new class.

Man if someone is paying like 25 bucks every other day to change classes the freaking go for it. We're not talking about free tokens here, we're talking about ones along the same expense path as the others.

Idinuse

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

I'll agree that class change wold be on my wishlist, too.

As a roleplayer, character concept is very important to me, and one of my characters is very much a "ranger / protector of the wilderness" sort of character. If Warden had been available at the time, she would have been that.

That said, I do see the danger of making class change openly available. We'd get a lot of "flavor-of-the-week" builds that way.

Yes, that's my concern as well! "flavor-of-the-week"

With balance improving slowly there shouldn't be a flavor of the week just a preference to gameplay and classes

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

I highly doubt they will add a class change because in the stream, they talked about how they wanted Morrowind to be an experience more along the lines of starting a new Elder Scrolls game. That's why they are adding a new tutorial zone. It seems to me like their focus is on having us start a new character over (likely a Warden), and playing through all of Morrowind first. That's what I intend to do, anyways.

Tommy_The_Gun

Grinding 1 - 50 level is not that hard. It can be done easily (1 level per day). The thing that bothers me is grinding skill lines again... and oh.. gathering all skill points and skyshards... Damn...
...that will take like.. a lot of time.. hell of a lot... Not to mention - getting all achievements again...

So I can understand why people who played the game from the start (beta) want to change class a little bit faster.
It is just making a gigantic handicap towards veteran players who play from the game launch and for those who are just joining in - making a special new OP class... *sight*
If only some things in game were account wide (just like Champion points). But no.. you have to start from "square one" again...

FriedEggSandwich

ADarklore wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

These days the most tedious part of levelling a new char is the character creation screen. 1-50 can be done in 8 hours or less. You really don't need to collect motifs or research traits on more than one char. Mages and fighters guild just happen. You're not getting a class change so better bite the bullet or enjoy watching others play warden. I recently started from scratch on a different server, and it's not just easy; it's enjoyable.

So you must not be a person who does quests? Because I don't want to have one character that has done all the quests and another character that has not. Also, many people also collect various crafting materials as they go along, and having a new character with hardly any crafting skills leveled means you don't always get what you need. Hence the reason many people want to be able to have a Class change, so they don't have to go through all the hours of leveling everything all over again, and then there's the Mount skills, inventory upgrades, etc.

I have done most quests once, and plan to complete every quest on my main toon on eu and my main toon on na. But I have no desire to do every quest on all my alts. If I look at things from the perspective of a mega-completionist I can see the attraction of a class change. I'm not strongly opposed to a class change option, but it does sound like it will make the game too easy, and zos have already made things much easier than they used to be. The only reason to want a class change is because you want everything completed everywhere but cba to do any more completing, and that's not compelling enough to me. The game needs to have reasons to do the content.

wildbear247

I think it would be awesome if ESO had a class change feature. I'd be cool if ZOS charged crowns for it so they get some monetary compensation. This seems like such a basic feature that I'm surprised ESO doesn't have it already. Right now I have my main character that I've completed most of the game on (main story, Cadwell quests, DLC stories, collected all skyshards, max Undaunted, high Alliance rank, etc.). I think creating another character and "power grinding" your way to max level just to enjoy another class is way too restrictive and time consuming...I've completed the entire story and while it was enjoyable I have no desire to play through it again. I've ventured down the "power grind" path with my crafter and frankly it's mind numbing and not very fun...generally just trying to speed through everything to get the achievements that I've already unlocked on my main.

Couple of things to consider regarding class change:
1) FOTM builds: There are some who might argue that it would foster a community of FOTM builds, in which everyone shifts to the class and race combo that is considered the "most powerful" for that patch window. I don't think this applies to the casual player though. I'm more of a casual player and I login to ESO to have fun and don't really care about my leaderboard stats or if I'm dominating everyone in Cyrodiil. I just want to continue to use my main character but have some fun trying out a different class. If FOTM builds due to class change is really a concern there could be ways to address that (e.g. increasing the cost in the Crown Store and/or in game gold). Plus as another player mentioned, people who migrate to FOTM class/set combos likely already have a lot of characters alts they shift to every patch to remain in the power curve.
2) Implementation: The question has arisen as to how class skill levels would handled during a class change. I don't think this is an indomitable barrier though. One way to handle this would be to have a system that counts the number of skills you have maxed on your current class and allows you the max the same number on your new class (kinda like assigning a skill point, you would be able to pick the skills you wanted to max). This could be extended to encompass class skill ranks, skill secondary unlocks, etc. This is just a quick idea. My main point here is it's not an unsolvable problem.

In general, giving players more options and flexibility to enjoy ESO on their own terms is a VERY good thing. For example ZOS adding the combat numbers feature was a good thing...especially because they gave players the option to turn it off. We as players should be wary of taking a stance towards other players of "I don't want you to have that option.", especially if having a certain option would appeal to a large number of players and doesn't impinge on our own ESO adventures.

KochDerDamonen

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

These days the most tedious part of levelling a new char is the character creation screen. 1-50 can be done in 8 hours or less. You really don't need to collect motifs or research traits on more than one char. Mages and fighters guild just happen. You're not getting a class change so better bite the bullet or enjoy watching others play warden. I recently started from scratch on a different server, and it's not just easy; it's enjoyable.

So you must not be a person who does quests? Because I don't want to have one character that has done all the quests and another character that has not. Also, many people also collect various crafting materials as they go along, and having a new character with hardly any crafting skills leveled means you don't always get what you need. Hence the reason many people want to be able to have a Class change, so they don't have to go through all the hours of leveling everything all over again, and then there's the Mount skills, inventory upgrades, etc.

I have done most quests once, and plan to complete every quest on my main toon on eu and my main toon on na. But I have no desire to do every quest on all my alts. If I look at things from the perspective of a mega-completionist I can see the attraction of a class change. I'm not strongly opposed to a class change option, but it does sound like it will make the game too easy, and zos have already made things much easier than they used to be. The only reason to want a class change is because you want everything completed everywhere but cba to do any more completing, and that's not compelling enough to me. The game needs to have reasons to do the content.

@FriedEggSandwhich
I just... what is this "easy" you refer to? Leveling to 50 is easy, collecting skyshards/lorebooks (especially on PC with addons) is easy. What is made easy by changing a character into a class that would have made me happier about them as a character if I had the option in the first place? What are you on about at all? I want my main, my lovely tubby Argonian support, to use frost/nature magics instead of aedric stuff. I already did all that stuff, quested, picked up a fair lot of achievments, collected collectibles, conquered dungeons, researched traits, collected lore books...
I did it. Nothing about a class change does those things for you.

AlnilamE

ADarklore wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

The thing is, it sounds like the new area will have a completely new "start", so I don't know how they would reconcile that.

Either way, I don't see the point of class changes. I just make a new character. But I guess that would be a good source of income for ZOS as people would just change class every time there is a balancing update.

It would be a new 'start' ONLY for those who don't already have ESO... if you UPGRADE then you will just travel to Morrowind like we travel anywhere else in ESO.

Also, you don't see the point? So you want to go through all the cost of upgrading your inventory slots, mount training, crafting, etc? Because if you'd put hundreds or thousands of hours into a main, you'd see the point.

If you look at my signature, you will see that I have 7 characters (8 actually, but one is an Iron Vestige, so she doesn't get perks). They are all level 50, all have fully maxed inventory and upgraded mounts.

I have 1 character that is my Equipment Crafter and 1 character who is my Consumables crafter. That's all I need.
My other characters have random points in crafting so that the hirelings bring in different tier mats.

If I do end up making a Warden, I will have no problems getting them to level 50, either by doing quests or via guild activities or whatever I feel like doing at the time.

But my main will always be my Nightblade, even though I like all my characters in their own way.

Edit: typo

aisriyth_ESO

If it wasn't a joke to go 1-50 and if CP's weren't account wide then yes, class change would be alright.

That said, it is very easy to do 1-50 (3-5 hours) cps are account wide, so i don't think we need class changes. That being said, i would like to see achievements account wide.

Donum-Dei

I think it might come soon enough.
They already have added the other options with tokens. Don't see how they will not be making it not to be so.

ADarklore

aisriyth_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't a joke to go 1-50 and if CP's weren't account wide then yes, class change would be alright.

That said, it is very easy to do 1-50 (3-5 hours) cps are account wide, so i don't think we need class changes. That being said, i would like to see achievements account wide.

As noted before, are you going to pay to upgrade inventory and mount skills for everyone, and spend the time to upgrade crafting, skyshards, lorebooks, etc? NO... well keep in mind that characters don't just revolve around skill points and CP.

KochDerDamonen

ADarklore wrote: »

aisriyth_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't a joke to go 1-50 and if CP's weren't account wide then yes, class change would be alright.

That said, it is very easy to do 1-50 (3-5 hours) cps are account wide, so i don't think we need class changes. That being said, i would like to see achievements account wide.

As noted before, are you going to pay to upgrade inventory and mount skills for everyone, and spend the time to upgrade crafting, skyshards, lorebooks, etc? NO... well keep in mind that characters don't just revolve around skill points and CP.

^
And for some of us characters revolve around, hang on a second, the character. I'm not even a big roleplayer, but my characters hold a bit more value than just the sum of their parts.

ADarklore

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

These days the most tedious part of levelling a new char is the character creation screen. 1-50 can be done in 8 hours or less. You really don't need to collect motifs or research traits on more than one char. Mages and fighters guild just happen. You're not getting a class change so better bite the bullet or enjoy watching others play warden. I recently started from scratch on a different server, and it's not just easy; it's enjoyable.

So you must not be a person who does quests? Because I don't want to have one character that has done all the quests and another character that has not. Also, many people also collect various crafting materials as they go along, and having a new character with hardly any crafting skills leveled means you don't always get what you need. Hence the reason many people want to be able to have a Class change, so they don't have to go through all the hours of leveling everything all over again, and then there's the Mount skills, inventory upgrades, etc.

I have done most quests once, and plan to complete every quest on my main toon on eu and my main toon on na. But I have no desire to do every quest on all my alts. If I look at things from the perspective of a mega-completionist I can see the attraction of a class change. I'm not strongly opposed to a class change option, but it does sound like it will make the game too easy, and zos have already made things much easier than they used to be. The only reason to want a class change is because you want everything completed everywhere but cba to do any more completing, and that's not compelling enough to me. The game needs to have reasons to do the content.

How is it making the game too easy? Because right now, the game is exhausting if you take a new character and play through everything again, not only exhausting but expensive... inventory upgrades and mount skills can be pricey and time consuming (for those who don't buy Crown Mount upgrades). Also, what impact does it have on other people if someone else makes these changes?!? I always find it sad how people want others to live with THEIR restrictions, instead of allowing people to play how they want. ZOS could make a small fortune on Class change tokens, just like they are making with Race changes.

AegisWolf

If they implement a class change, that's fine as a crown store item, but should be free for a week after launch.

Uzmati

i would settle with ZoS implementing rearrange character selection order.
Seriously, we need that

InfiniteGamer

I hope there's a class change option, I really don't want to level up and grind skill lines on a new character

makeyurself

I'm all for starting new characters (I would need more slots though) but two of my characters, one a Templar frostmage, and the other a Ranger/Warden NB would really appreciate a class change. I don't care how it's implemented (and open to all characters/classes) or a limited free switch to warden for a month or something like that.it would be nice to just have the option.

AlnilamE

ADarklore wrote: »

aisriyth_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't a joke to go 1-50 and if CP's weren't account wide then yes, class change would be alright.

That said, it is very easy to do 1-50 (3-5 hours) cps are account wide, so i don't think we need class changes. That being said, i would like to see achievements account wide.

As noted before, are you going to pay to upgrade inventory and mount skills for everyone, and spend the time to upgrade crafting, skyshards, lorebooks, etc? NO... well keep in mind that characters don't just revolve around skill points and CP.

If you mean "pay" in gold. Yes, of course. I'll even make the characters earn their own gold for the expansions.

Skyshards and lorebooks are part of the fun of making a new character for me. I feel sad when I go by skyshards I already got.

There is no need to upgrade crafting beyond the level where they get the Tier 3 hireling, since I already have a Master Crafter for everything. That character will not disappear if I make an alt.

So you may not be willing to do those things or find them tedious. Other's mileage may vary.

STEVIL

I, for one, hope there is sufficient content and development opportunities including new guild quests to develop their lines - so that i will WANT to run a new character up thru the Morrowind by level by content play.

i would hate to think this is a case where - who cares, just grind different looking cats and gos to get "new" skills with "new animations" that do the same thing other skills did.

i dont expect class change - let me develop one set of abilities and skills then swap it all out like say level as dps then swap to tank cuz leveling dps is faster than leveling tank - and i pray it is made "unnecessary" or "undesirable" by stunning content.

idk

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

andreasranasen wrote: »

Yes they won't add class change. This is almost like an entirely new game with it's own tutorial in the beginning of starting this new extension of ESO. So they want you to get to know your class instead of jumping right into it all spec'd out.

It'd be simple to kit out a fresh warden with gold level 15 armor for giggles if I wanted to smash through content like a meme.

andreasranasen wrote: »

BlackSparrow wrote: »

I'll agree that class change wold be on my wishlist, too.

As a roleplayer, character concept is very important to me, and one of my characters is very much a "ranger / protector of the wilderness" sort of character. If Warden had been available at the time, she would have been that.

That said, I do see the danger of making class change openly available. We'd get a lot of "flavor-of-the-week" builds that way.

Yes, that's my concern as well! "flavor-of-the-week"

Who cares?
It's easy to have 8 characters, two of each class in stamina/magicka...
Flavor of the week/month/day happens no matter what.
Class change would milk money off someone who would play like that but not level multiple characters...
AND helps someone like me, who would quite like a frost/nature mage and would have made one if it were available from the start.

@KochDerDamonen

Character change is not good for the game. While Zos could make some good cash selling it for 5 to 10k crown a pop, I doubt they want to cater to the ultra lazy in this manner understanding it could have some negative unforeseen affects.

Tommy_The_Gun

aisriyth_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't a joke to go 1-50 and if CP's weren't account wide then yes, class change would be alright.

That said, it is very easy to do 1-50 (3-5 hours) cps are account wide, so i don't think we need class changes. That being said, i would like to see achievements account wide.

Getting level 50 is easy. But...

What about skill points from quest ? Skyshards ? All achievements that you have ? Skill lines grinding ? Getting Werewolf & Vamp skill line again and grinding those ? Grinding crafting skill and learning all the motives again ? What about titles you have unlocked ? And if you PvP then also.. grinding alliance points to get titles & skill points ?

What about these ? Those are thing that are NOT account wide. And it takes time to get them. A LOT of time.

Lets now just assume that warden was a class available form the game launch (back in the day when subscription was required). Even if it was really bad and underperforming class - I would probably pick this class for my main character (play style and RPG reasons).

Now... Those who start the game NOW (their adventure with eso begins with morrowind DLC) can pick this class. Already there are topics about nerfing warden or at lest making it's skills at lest balanced...
Because now it sounds like ZOS is handicapping old veteran players who play from the start and is giving OP class for new players who can make their main character with this class...

(sure you can make a second character with this class... but will you have patience to gather all skill points, unlocking undaunted skill line, alliance war skill line... *sight* )


But anyway... I am happy that new content will finally appear...

ArgonianAustin

Class change would be awesome and the bad part about no class change wouldn't be about having to level 1-50 that's easy as hell the terrible part is having to get undaunted, mages guild, titles, skill points, and most of all, alliance rank.

Drdeath20

The people who would chase the FOTM builds have zero problem grinding from 0-50 and finishing off vet dungeons in a week.

Zos is simply neglecting the casuals. Who have more money than time.

bowmanz607

No thabks. Too close to pay to win. You are just buying a whole class.

Plus, think about it. Zos will lose money that way. If you can just change you class and race all willy nilly they lose money for character slots, Mount upgrades, exp scrolls etc.

You want it earn it. Besides, 1-50 is nothing. Even casually grinding you can do it in 2 days max. But can also do it in like 5 hours.

AlnilamE

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

aisriyth_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't a joke to go 1-50 and if CP's weren't account wide then yes, class change would be alright.

That said, it is very easy to do 1-50 (3-5 hours) cps are account wide, so i don't think we need class changes. That being said, i would like to see achievements account wide.

Getting level 50 is easy. But...

What about skill points from quest ? Skyshards ? All achievements that you have ? Skill lines grinding ? Getting Werewolf & Vamp skill line again and grinding those ? Grinding crafting skill and learning all the motives again ? What about titles you have unlocked ? And if you PvP then also.. grinding alliance points to get titles & skill points ?

What about these ? Those are thing that are NOT account wide. And it takes time to get them. A LOT of time.

Why do you speak like your old character will die when you make a warden? Why can't they remain as they are?

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I wouldn't be surprised if just doing everything in the new zone would basically level your new warden. At least come close enough to make it fun. Throw an experience scroll on and I'd bet money you'd be set. That's my plan on how to experience the new zone!