Suggestion to bypass horribad RNG and make PVE/Crafters Happy

Malamar1229

Old time SWG players- remember when your guild had to escort your crafter through the Mandalorian Tunnels in order to craft the end game Mandalorian armor? I was one of the few on my server who had it, and the jetpack...before it went EZ mode.

Got me thinking....what's the downside to having raid bosses drop an items or schematic, or a 1 time use thingie ma-jinger to allow a crafter to make a BoP item in desired trait.
So for instance, COA1 Hardmode I can use the item to craft a GD sharpened inferno staff or sell it on store for other crafters to use.

Cryptical

There are enough skill points in the game to run a fully maxed crafter that also has the abilities and passives for a build. So a crafter is not necessarily squishy.

Malamar1229

nvm

Karius_Imalthar

You'll get all the skill points you need eventually but you have to be selective as you level up. For example, for a long time I had to have only 1 point in Keen Eye for blacksmithing, woodworking, clothing, and alchemy. I didn't spend any in enchanting because the runes are already very visible. Eventually I had enough that I could put them in everything I wanted. Make sure to respec if you cure vampirism or werewolf to get the skill points back. Also, respec when you finish all the research in a craft to get back the 4 points in metallurgy, for example.

AzuraKin

Karius_Imalthar wrote: »

You'll get all the skill points you need eventually but you have to be selective as you level up. For example, for a long time I had to have only 1 point in Keen Eye for blacksmithing, woodworking, clothing, and alchemy. I didn't spend any in enchanting because the runes are already very visible. Eventually I had enough that I could put them in everything I wanted. Make sure to respec if you cure vampirism or werewolf to get the skill points back. Also, respec when you finish all the research in a craft to get back the 4 points in metallurgy, for example.

shouldnt really need any of the resource node discovery passives ever. they soo easy to see to begin with.

DMuehlhausen

AzuraKin wrote: »

Karius_Imalthar wrote: »

You'll get all the skill points you need eventually but you have to be selective as you level up. For example, for a long time I had to have only 1 point in Keen Eye for blacksmithing, woodworking, clothing, and alchemy. I didn't spend any in enchanting because the runes are already very visible. Eventually I had enough that I could put them in everything I wanted. Make sure to respec if you cure vampirism or werewolf to get the skill points back. Also, respec when you finish all the research in a craft to get back the 4 points in metallurgy, for example.

shouldnt really need any of the resource node discovery passives ever. they soo easy to see to begin with.

Not for everyone...

NewBlacksmurf

In my experiences games tend to do this as a BOE opportunity. The harm could be that offering a best in slot in endgame which can be produced via crafting would be expensive to craft and buy

I'd think of it like yellow Imperial City rune drops or maybe exp pots but this is different cause ur talking about gear

MasterSpatula

I don't think any of the responses so far have really understood @Malamar1229 's point. Maybe his specific SWG example kind of threw them off. Having earned all the gunships in SWG and having gotten them crafted by shipwrights, though, I remember that system fondly as the best MMO crafting system I've ever seen.

Either having endgame gear drop as schematics or having it able to be deconstructed into a 1-use schematic are, in my opinion, the only ways to keep the best gear being earned by playing the content while keeping the developers' promise that crafted would always be competitive.

This would make the very best gear both dropped/rewarded AND crafted. Or, at the very least, deconing into schematics could give crafters a transmogrify option.

Any character can max out any of the equipment crafts easily. I have six character that are 50 in all crafts (sans Enchanting). So the schematics could even be bind to character, if ZOS wanted to go that route.

Keeping crafters involved in engame gear is keeping a promise they made and would keep a lot of people from losing interest in the game.

NewBlacksmurf

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I don't think any of the responses so far have really understood @Malamar1229 's point. Maybe his specific SWG example kind of threw them off. Having earned all the gunships in SWG and having gotten them crafted by shipwrights, though, I remember that system fondly as the best MMO crafting system I've ever seen.

Either having endgame gear drop as schematics or having it able to be deconstructed into a 1-use schematic are, in my opinion, the only ways to keep the best gear being earned by playing the content while keeping the developers' promise that crafted would always be competitive.

This would make the very best gear both dropped/rewarded AND crafted. Or, at the very least, deconing into schematics could give crafters a transmogrify option.

Any character can max out any of the equipment crafts easily. I have six character that are 50 in all crafts (sans Enchanting). So the schematics could even be bind to character, if ZOS wanted to go that route.

Keeping crafters involved in engame gear is keeping a promise they made and would keep a lot of people from losing interest in the game.

I understand it but I don't agree that it's a good addition or "best" specifically because

1. Games that create opportunities to get gear outside of doing content remove player experiences.
2. Crafting doesn't need exclusive drops that require content participation because we can use an alt and bank share stuff. So why would you have a recipe, schematic, etc drop that requires crafting. Just drop the item....cause that's what ppl want. Not to get something that requires additional grinding especially to think it's for a crafter.

Crafters aren't locked out of content nor are they blocked from sharing anything the account obtains.

See this isn't for crafters.....it's an argument for BOE items for someone to sale for profits.


That's my perspective

billp_ESO

I agree, for crafting to be relevant, crafted items have to be the best in the game. Like in Ryzom, just have bosses drop special mats that can be used by crafters to make special items. DO NOT DROP THE ITEMS DIRECTLY.

However, I think ZoS considers the RNG system to be "content", so they'll never do it.

Malamar1229

thank you @MasterSpatula for being clearer than I was

Malamar1229

not to mention, we know items are BoP in dungeons because ZOS wants them to be replayed.
If they could somehow add crafting drops from HM bosses, that are BOE, that right there is reason enough to replay dungeons. The ones who want to earn gold will replay, and those that want their “1 and done” item don’t have to.
I have literally run COA1 over 100 times now for a sharpened inferno staff. Figure 10-20 mins per run (I clear bosses), and that is a lot of time spent doing something for ONE item that I want to use in the content I enjoy (PvP). I would have rather spent 20 mins in the dungeon getting it, and then the rest of that time in Cyrodiil.

MasterSpatula

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

[snip]

Any character can max out any of the equipment crafts easily. I have six character that are 50 in all crafts (sans Enchanting). So the schematics could even be bind to character, if ZOS wanted to go that route.

I understand it but I don't agree that it's a good addition or "best" specifically because

1. Games that create opportunities to get gear outside of doing content remove player experiences.
2. Crafting doesn't need exclusive drops that require content participation because we can use an alt and bank share stuff. So why would you have a recipe, schematic, etc drop that requires crafting. Just drop the item....cause that's what ppl want. Not to get something that requires additional grinding especially to think it's for a crafter.

Crafters aren't locked out of content nor are they blocked from sharing anything the account obtains.

See this isn't for crafters.....it's an argument for BOE items for someone to sale for profits.


That's my perspective

Your perspective seems to ignore one of my paragraphs.

I certainly understand why you might not want to have to craft the best gear instead of just getting it as loot/reward. But if you're concerned about crafters getting to make gear that's actually worth selling, "Backpack Bind"ing the schem fixes that.

As for "See this isn't for crafters.....it's an argument for BOE items for someone to sale for profits," that's both a dishonest and uncalled-for attack on the character of people you disagree with. Seriously, if you want to impugn character, at least don't do so in a way that's already been answered before you do it. Better still, just don't do it.

robertthebard

MasterSpatula wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

[snip]

Any character can max out any of the equipment crafts easily. I have six character that are 50 in all crafts (sans Enchanting). So the schematics could even be bind to character, if ZOS wanted to go that route.

I understand it but I don't agree that it's a good addition or "best" specifically because

1. Games that create opportunities to get gear outside of doing content remove player experiences.
2. Crafting doesn't need exclusive drops that require content participation because we can use an alt and bank share stuff. So why would you have a recipe, schematic, etc drop that requires crafting. Just drop the item....cause that's what ppl want. Not to get something that requires additional grinding especially to think it's for a crafter.

Crafters aren't locked out of content nor are they blocked from sharing anything the account obtains.

See this isn't for crafters.....it's an argument for BOE items for someone to sale for profits.


That's my perspective

Your perspective seems to ignore one of my paragraphs.

I certainly understand why you might not want to have to craft the best gear instead of just getting it as loot/reward. But if you're concerned about crafters getting to make gear that's actually worth selling, "Backpack Bind"ing the schem fixes that.

As for "See this isn't for crafters.....it's an argument for BOE items for someone to sale for profits," that's both a dishonest and uncalled-for attack on the character of people you disagree with. Seriously, if you want to impugn character, at least don't do so in a way that's already been answered before you do it. Better still, just don't do it.

Regarding that last paragraph, I was just about ready to agree with you, until I read this post, where the OP confirms it. It's neither dishonest, nor an actual attack, since it's true.

not to mention, we know items are BoP in dungeons because ZOS wants them to be replayed.
If they could somehow add crafting drops from HM bosses, that are BOE, that right there is reason enough to replay dungeons. The ones who want to earn gold will replay, and those that want their “1 and done” item don’t have to.

Zouni

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I don't think any of the responses so far have really understood @Malamar1229 's point. Maybe his specific SWG example kind of threw them off. Having earned all the gunships in SWG and having gotten them crafted by shipwrights, though, I remember that system fondly as the best MMO crafting system I've ever seen.

Either having endgame gear drop as schematics or having it able to be deconstructed into a 1-use schematic are, in my opinion, the only ways to keep the best gear being earned by playing the content while keeping the developers' promise that crafted would always be competitive.

This would make the very best gear both dropped/rewarded AND crafted. Or, at the very least, deconing into schematics could give crafters a transmogrify option.

Any character can max out any of the equipment crafts easily. I have six character that are 50 in all crafts (sans Enchanting). So the schematics could even be bind to character, if ZOS wanted to go that route.

Keeping crafters involved in engame gear is keeping a promise they made and would keep a lot of people from losing interest in the game.

It was hands down the best...nothing compared to that crafting system so far in any MMO i have seen yet.

NewBlacksmurf

MasterSpatula wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

[snip]

Any character can max out any of the equipment crafts easily. I have six character that are 50 in all crafts (sans Enchanting). So the schematics could even be bind to character, if ZOS wanted to go that route.

I understand it but I don't agree that it's a good addition or "best" specifically because

1. Games that create opportunities to get gear outside of doing content remove player experiences.
2. Crafting doesn't need exclusive drops that require content participation because we can use an alt and bank share stuff. So why would you have a recipe, schematic, etc drop that requires crafting. Just drop the item....cause that's what ppl want. Not to get something that requires additional grinding especially to think it's for a crafter.

Crafters aren't locked out of content nor are they blocked from sharing anything the account obtains.

See this isn't for crafters.....it's an argument for BOE items for someone to sale for profits.


That's my perspective

Your perspective seems to ignore one of my paragraphs.

I certainly understand why you might not want to have to craft the best gear instead of just getting it as loot/reward. But if you're concerned about crafters getting to make gear that's actually worth selling, "Backpack Bind"ing the schem fixes that.

As for "See this isn't for crafters.....it's an argument for BOE items for someone to sale for profits," that's both a dishonest and uncalled-for attack on the character of people you disagree with. Seriously, if you want to impugn character, at least don't do so in a way that's already been answered before you do it. Better still, just don't do it.

@MasterSpatula

Thing is, it's literally what I wrote and it's not being offensive or rude.

The only reason anyone wants BOE in dungeons or trials is to sale items. Regardless of it being a schematic, a recipe, etc that's the sole purpose and was confirmed as such.

So that's my opinion on it all and it lines up

Elephant42

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@MasterSpatula

Thing is, it's literally what I wrote and it's not being offensive or rude.

The only reason anyone wants BOE in dungeons or trials is to sale items. Regardless of it being a schematic, a recipe, etc that's the sole purpose and was confirmed as such.

So that's my opinion on it all and it lines up

Selling is absolutely NOT the only reason anyone wants BoE.

The main purpose for BoE is to be able to give to/trade with friends and guildies.

So that's my opinion on it all...

Malamar1229

NewBlackSmurf you are way off course.
a) has nothing to do with profits. I literally dont want to spend weeks farming for a staff so I can continue to PvP. I have run COA 100 times. Its ridiculous. Whether that calls for implementing pvp gear in cyrodiil so we dont have to do that is another topic for another thread.
b) if someone wants boe for profits who cares. There are roughly 10 high in demand tradeable items in this economy....adding more certainly wouldnt hurt and at this point i would have gladly paid 1mill gold for a sharpened BSW inferno staff so I could spend that 50 hours or so doing what I enjoy (pvp) versus grinding for what I enjoy.
c) crafters are not the center of the economy. Its ALMOST as pointless as crafting gear in WoW (no one uses it).

Since we have so many SWG fans here, anyone could tell you how great that player driven economy was. no bop. gear decayed over time and needed replacing. Kept crafters alive. I should know, I ran the #1 armorshop on Valcyn and had upwards of 900million credits before I rage quit due to NGE. But guess what, that came with sacrifices. It meant I spent way less time PvPing and enjoying "combat" and 90% of my time managing 50+ harvestors and restocking my store.

Making items BOE has nothing to do with greed and profits. It makes items available to different types of players and keeps the economy somewhat alive. What difference does it make if I run COA1 100 times versus someone else running it 100 times. He gets my money and rewarded for the time farming. I get the item I want and can go enjoy what I like. Some enjoy farming, some enjoy raiding, and some enjoy pvp.

Right now, this is punishment and if you understand how Homestead is changing things for magicka sorcs, you can understand why we want a sharpened inferno staff.