Dunmer DK tank: Rattlecage + Burning Spellweave?

Savos_Saren

I was looking over some of the PVP builds that people have been putting together- and I was wondering if a Rattlecage and Burning Spellweave with Valkyn (or Grothdarr) would be a good build. The main thing that I see "lacking" would be magicka recovery. I'm thinking if you run The Atronach and one or two pieces of magicka recovery enchants on your jewelry- you should be pretty set. The Constitution Passive and Battle Roar passive should help out with resources as well.

Has anyone tried this build? Any opinions?

NewBlacksmurf

I don't PvP I PvE but deep breath restores a lot of mana if u hit a lot of targets

Savos_Saren

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't PvP I PvE but deep breath restores a lot of mana if u hit a lot of targets

I think you mean Draw Essence- but I get what you're saying. That's very true! You get roughly 432 magicka for each enemy hit (not to mention very powerful heals if you have high spell damage).

usmcjdking

No.

Poor sustain, poorer ult gen (to make up for the lack of sustain) and garbage healing capabilities, three things a legitimate magicka DK tank needs.

Shalks/Rattle/Bloodspawn would serve you better.

Savos_Saren

usmcjdking wrote: »

No.

Poor sustain, poorer ult gen (to make up for the lack of sustain) and garbage healing capabilities, three things a legitimate magicka DK tank needs.

Shalks/Rattle/Bloodspawn would serve you better.

Garbage healing? Burning Embers is based off of spell damage. Methinks it would be OP with that setup.

usmcjdking

jaburns wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

No.

Poor sustain, poorer ult gen (to make up for the lack of sustain) and garbage healing capabilities, three things a legitimate magicka DK tank needs.

Shalks/Rattle/Bloodspawn would serve you better.

Garbage healing? Burning Embers is based off of spell damage. Methinks it would be OP with that setup.

Burning embers is nice, for sure. But it's not so nice when you have 2-3 destro ults and countless bleeds eating at your HP and Embers still has 5 seconds left to go.

sirston

I use this combo with engine guardian plus all enchants are arcane, Magdk build with duel wield i'm rocking 2193 unbuff spell dmg and 47.4% crit. Hitting anywhere of 3.3k to 5k whips with lava whip.

Savos_Saren

@usmcjdking

I feel ya! That's actually why I want to run Rattlecage. Usually, I slot Molten Armaments- but because of this Zerg-train Destro Ult trend- I want to start using Elusive Mist to escape the Destros.

@sirston

Below is the numbers that I'm pulling with 5 heavy Kag, 5 Burning Spellweave, and 2 Valkyn. (the jewelry is all spell damage- the mundus is atro). I'm thinking that if I swap Kag for Rattlecage- I can replace a couple of enchants with regen and still have better spell damage.

SnubbS

5x Heavy Tavas on the Body. 2x Bloodspawn if solo (Grothdar if Group/Zerg Surfing) and 5x BurningSpellweave. Sword/Shield & Jewelry. Back bar Destro ult. Welcome to Homestead.

usmcjdking

jaburns wrote: »

@usmcjdking

I feel ya! That's actually why I want to run Rattlecage. Usually, I slot Molten Armaments- but because of this Zerg-train Destro Ult trend- I want to start using Elusive Mist to escape the Destros.

@sirston

Below is the numbers that I'm pulling with 5 heavy Kag, 5 Burning Spellweave, and 2 Valkyn. (the jewelry is all spell damage- the mundus is atro). I'm thinking that if I swap Kag for Rattlecage- I can replace a couple of enchants with regen and still have better spell damage.

More power to you! I usually PVP pug tank meaning I have no group, I have no support, I just find a zerg about to run over some friendlies and cause as much hate and discontent as possible. So please take that into account as I give you this spiel.

To significantly paraphrase, misquote and probably bastardize the quotation here from @DKsUnite. Your job isn't to survive as a tank. It's to mitigate the damage everyone else around you will take by utilizing positioning, CC and presenting a nice juicy target. If you are going to just mist through an ult bomb, then you're relying entirely on the rest of your team being able to survive it which, IMO, is bad juju for PVP tank. The thing I hate the most when I'm tanking is being the LAST one to die.

If your team starts to struggle, you go more aggressive. If a threat presents itself, you interdict and let your team focus on how to win the fight. If you're team is winning, the likelihood that your damage is more valuable than your CC/debuff capabilities is probably not the case.

IMO, this build will not support the playstyle of what I view as a PVP tank. Your view could be different and equally as valid though!

usmcjdking

*dusts off mag dk tank*

Savos_Saren

@usmcjdking

I should also point out that the health of my tank is 5k lower than what it actually is in Cyrodiil. That being said- the practice of my tank is to Dragon Leap into a zerg for the initial knock-back CC, pop talons for the soft CC, and elusive mist out until their destro ultimates wear off. This usually provides enough time for my group to toss in a negate and then counter ulti-bomb them... in which I've rushed back in for a second set of talons.

I'm wanting to utilize Rattlecage as a meaner, sleeker version of Kagrenac. But, honestly, if I'm dropping the spell damage enchants on my jewelry for magicka regen... then I might as well stick with Kagrenac. Who knows. I'll try to farm some Rattlecage and let you know if it feels any different.

MaxwellC

@jaburns
I run 5 dragon, 5 burning spell weave, and 2 skoria or 2 willpower (whichever I feel like using if I don't wanna rock a proc set like my stam dk).

sirston

depends if you want more crit or power your choice I found that once you hit 40% or more its useless to have more and for dmg..its about 2.4k is a good amount anymore and your kinda overkillin it.

DKsUnite

jaburns wrote: »

@usmcjdking

I should also point out that the health of my tank is 5k lower than what it actually is in Cyrodiil. That being said- the practice of my tank is to Dragon Leap into a zerg for the initial knock-back CC, pop talons for the soft CC, and elusive mist out until their destro ultimates wear off. This usually provides enough time for my group to toss in a negate and then counter ulti-bomb them... in which I've rushed back in for a second set of talons.

I'm wanting to utilize Rattlecage as a meaner, sleeker version of Kagrenac. But, honestly, if I'm dropping the spell damage enchants on my jewelry for magicka regen... then I might as well stick with Kagrenac. Who knows. I'll try to farm some Rattlecage and let you know if it feels any different.

i think what he is trying to say is that you are building a dps and aren't building a tank. You have a damage set, combined with a damage set, combined with a dmg undaunted set. Unless you are going to be a destro ulti dps mDK, you have no reason to run that many dps sets.

Regardless, rattle + BSW has no sustain, so its a bad combo. Usually how most people build magicka characters is 1 DPS set (BSW, sun, rattle etc.), 1 recovery set (lich, warlock, desert rose, tava etc.) and then an undaunted that you like.

LiquidSchwartz

I used 5heavy kags and 5 spellweve but the damage is soooo low
5 bsw and 5 sun is incredible dmg if you can stay alive

so i stick to Kags for groups
when im playing in group for 4 or 5 ill throw on vicious death instead of bsw to help finish off enemy groups if were farming ap

KaiDynasty

Heavy armor
Rattlecage + trainee/desert rose -> dead (still avaiable but you will lose 1k on each stat).
Rattlecage + dragon -> possible (you need to see how you regen is going)
Tava/Seducer/Kagrenac + sun/spinner -> solid (sustain, health, magicka, spell damage)
I feel Ok in heavy when i am soloing so i can tank more people at the same time, problem is that if you find players that has a brain that can sustain and cast shields/block without run out of resources, you will be dead, but the fight will last longer.

Light armor
Spinner + trainee -> good but squishy as *** and probably dead after patch (dw and sword and board or 2 sword and board)
I hurt like a truck even in solo, I can't fight 3 players together because the damage i take is very high, this build is good to kill bad plaers really fast to let you the number of enemies against you Always low, if you won't kill, the fight won't last long cause you will die pretty fast.

My opinion. I personally like more the old school in heavy armor, it give the best in small groups and you really fell the difference even against good players, when you are with 2 other 2 dks you really enjoying tanking and kill everything.

Switched in light armor recently, I like to take kills fast, and with being skilled you can manage to survive using dampen magic and burning embers, currently i am not using dragon blood, mabye next patch yes (mist form, dampen, shuffle even without tava is too good, and with trainee i can handle enough to keep it up, entropy and volatile armor).
Against a sorc even in a 1 vs 1 you will suffer a lot, against every other type of class you will hurt and can stay alive.
I am curious to try it in a small Group if it will work or if i will suffer too much.

Other possible Group setups (and only for groups of 3/4):
Tava's + fasalla

Sovaso

Meh this build looks like garbage

stevepdodson_ESO888

just be aware of the upcoming changes...Trainee probably no good any more
Dragon Blood will be a good heal based off Max Magicka and Spell Dmg
Dragon Leap (not sure which morph) will be a Fire-based (so magicka)

Savos_Saren

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

I used 5heavy kags and 5 spellweve but the damage is soooo low
5 bsw and 5 sun is incredible dmg if you can stay alive

so i stick to Kags for groups
when im playing in group for 4 or 5 ill throw on vicious death instead of bsw to help finish off enemy groups if were farming ap

Thanks bud. I usually run with large groups vs large groups- so I pretty much stick with Kags & BSW.

Savos_Saren

Sovaso wrote: »

Meh this build looks like garbage

@Sovaso

I don't know if you were commenting on the member's build above your statement or on my proposed build- but I'd suggest offering more input than that... or at least some positive feedback. I can see that, just four days ago, you were asking for build advice and didn't even know where Silks of the Sun came from. It doesn't sound like you're qualified on an expert opinion for what builds might be "garbage". Just saying.

Lexxypwns

I mean, if you're tanking. 5pc Heavy seducer is much better than rattlecage. You'll need the sustain more than the damage, especially considering BSW is enough damage to kill most people.

Sovaso

jaburns wrote: »

Sovaso wrote: »

Meh this build looks like garbage

@Sovaso

I don't know if you were commenting on the member's build above your statement or on my proposed build- but I'd suggest offering more input than that... or at least some positive feedback. I can see that, just four days ago, you were asking for build advice and didn't even know where Silks of the Sun came from. It doesn't sound like you're qualified on an expert opinion for what builds might be "garbage". Just saying.

Lmao

Savos_Saren

Sovaso wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

Sovaso wrote: »

Meh this build looks like garbage

@Sovaso

I don't know if you were commenting on the member's build above your statement or on my proposed build- but I'd suggest offering more input than that... or at least some positive feedback. I can see that, just four days ago, you were asking for build advice and didn't even know where Silks of the Sun came from. It doesn't sound like you're qualified on an expert opinion for what builds might be "garbage". Just saying.

Lmao

Yeah. That's what I thought. Carry on.

NBrookus

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

just be aware of the upcoming changes...Trainee probably no good any more
Dragon Blood will be a good heal based off Max Magicka and Spell Dmg
Dragon Leap (not sure which morph) will be a Fire-based (so magicka)

Trainee is losing ~1200 max stats. It may no longer be as nice -- I've run it the past few days and have really liked it -- but it's won't be garbage.