Comparing Two Skills

tennotsukai87

Does anyone else see the unfairness between the skills, Encase and Talons? Both are decent CC's, but Talons seems to do way more than any morph of Encase.

For example, Shattering Prison may do a little over 3k damage after immobilization ends while Burning Talons, for the same resource cost, does a considerate amount of damage in whole, more than 10k. Not only this, but Talons gains a synergy effect for other players to use Impale.

ZOS, please buff Encase. I know you're reducing its cost by 6%, but that is not enough. Perhaps, I'm missing something to why Encase is just as good. It's a frontal AoE compared to a radius around the player, which I think both are effective in their own ways. Still, Encase seems far weaker than Talons.

Waffennacht

It's a much longer range, but I feel ya OP

STEVIL

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

Does anyone else see the unfairness between the skills, Encase and Talons? Both are decent CC's, but Talons seems to do way more than any morph of Encase.

For example, Shattering Prison may do a little over 3k damage after immobilization ends while Burning Talons, for the same resource cost, does a considerate amount of damage in whole, more than 10k. Not only this, but Talons gains a synergy effect for other players to use Impale.

ZOS, please buff Encase. I know you're reducing its cost by 6%, but that is not enough. Perhaps, I'm missing something to why Encase is just as good. It's a frontal AoE compared to a radius around the player, which I think both are effective in their own ways. Still, Encase seems far weaker than Talons.

let me show you my middle finger.

there, see it?

its longer than my thumb.

that seems unfair.

of course, if i had another middle finger and no thumb things overall wouldn't be as good on that hand.

So, maybe the moral of the middle finger story is: Its unwise and unproductive to examine in isolation two skills from different classes or even different trees where the passives are different, the other skills available are different etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

A minivan has more cuholders than a porche but that doesn't make it unfair to the porsche owner.

For example - encase is dark magic - right?

casting a dark magic spell will by default give you:

1. minor sorcery from one DM exploit passive for 10-20s for you and your group nearby
2. if it does damage will give you healing up to like 8% health? from blood magic

Also, if any of its target get crits from the damage, you likely get healing from a second source from surge.


For sure, there are Dk passives that play a role, if not with talons then with other aspects, but this is a good example of why skill-on-skill myopic tunnel-vision is a bad balance tool.

tennotsukai87

So far, the only reasoning that makes sense is that it has long range. Honestly, that is a nice effect, though Talons does affect enemies behind and all around you. Both effects are very situational to their respective classes. Sorc is more range and DK is close. I don't believe one is better than the other in this situation. You actually have to be somewhat accurate with Encase if you want to immobilize more than one opponent, and I don't feel like the range is really that extravagant to brag about. It's not like you can immobilize someone as distant as a frost staff can with Destructive Reach.

As for the class passives, Minor Prophecy is nice. Unfortunately, the guy calling me unwise didn't do his research calling it Minor Sorcery. Blood Magic's 8% of 3.5k is garbage, definitely in pvp. DKs receive increased healing received and increased health regen (just for being slotted). Class passives should not matter in this case, but if they did, I would have to say both classes receive somewhat decent passives from their respective skill lines.

I'm not saying this skill is completely useless, but in comparison to Talons, it's a bit laughable. Talons can easily do over 12k dmg, but Encase or rather Shattering Prison does 30% of that. Seeing as how Sorc has so many skills, but so many are often not being utilized by decent players. Maybe it's time (it's been time for a while now) to reevaluate them.

Also, loved the "middle finger" analogy. Really shows how insignificantly insightful you are but thanks for the reply.

Metafae

OP says there's something wrong, asks to buff Encase

ZoS agrees something is wrong, nerfs Talons.

gg

DeadlyRecluse

If you want to root a breach with Talons, you need to be in the thick of things.

If you want to root a breach with encase, you can stay out of harms way.

Stop trying to make everything the same.

STEVIL

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

If you want to root a breach with Talons, you need to be in the thick of things.

If you want to root a breach with encase, you can stay out of harms way.

Stop trying to make everything the same.

yep.

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

So far, the only reasoning that makes sense is that it has long range. Honestly, that is a nice effect, though Talons does affect enemies behind and all around you. Both effects are very situational to their respective classes. Sorc is more range and DK is close. I don't believe one is better than the other in this situation. You actually have to be somewhat accurate with Encase if you want to immobilize more than one opponent, and I don't feel like the range is really that extravagant to brag about. It's not like you can immobilize someone as distant as a frost staff can with Destructive Reach.

As for the class passives, Minor Prophecy is nice. Unfortunately, the guy calling me unwise didn't do his research calling it Minor Sorcery. Blood Magic's 8% of 3.5k is garbage, definitely in pvp. DKs receive increased healing received and increased health regen (just for being slotted). Class passives should not matter in this case, but if they did, I would have to say both classes receive somewhat decent passives from their respective skill lines.

I'm not saying this skill is completely useless, but in comparison to Talons, it's a bit laughable. Talons can easily do over 12k dmg, but Encase or rather Shattering Prison does 30% of that. Seeing as how Sorc has so many skills, but so many are often not being utilized by decent players. Maybe it's time (it's been time for a while now) to reevaluate them.

Also, loved the "middle finger" analogy. Really shows how insignificantly insightful you are but thanks for the reply.

Sorcery/prophesy whatever - point was made.

8% of 3.5k??? Man, i typically wont leave the inn without at least 15k health or more commonly 20k where that turns into 1200 healing from dark magic for the 15k or 1600 for the 20k before any bonuses like powered, CP heal done, Cp heal rec etc. Depending on content, build, etc its not unusual for sorcerer's for instance to thrive on multiple "insignificant" by your standards heals all adding up and accuring as they fight without need for losing ticks for heals. Dark magic is in the same ballpark of healing as Surge but with only needing the damage from dark not crit to proc.

But to each his own.

Glad you liked my middle finger.

Enjoy.

Berenhir

STEVIL wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

If you want to root a breach with Talons, you need to be in the thick of things.

If you want to root a breach with encase, you can stay out of harms way.

Stop trying to make everything the same.

yep.

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

So far, the only reasoning that makes sense is that it has long range. Honestly, that is a nice effect, though Talons does affect enemies behind and all around you. Both effects are very situational to their respective classes. Sorc is more range and DK is close. I don't believe one is better than the other in this situation. You actually have to be somewhat accurate with Encase if you want to immobilize more than one opponent, and I don't feel like the range is really that extravagant to brag about. It's not like you can immobilize someone as distant as a frost staff can with Destructive Reach.

As for the class passives, Minor Prophecy is nice. Unfortunately, the guy calling me unwise didn't do his research calling it Minor Sorcery. Blood Magic's 8% of 3.5k is garbage, definitely in pvp. DKs receive increased healing received and increased health regen (just for being slotted). Class passives should not matter in this case, but if they did, I would have to say both classes receive somewhat decent passives from their respective skill lines.

I'm not saying this skill is completely useless, but in comparison to Talons, it's a bit laughable. Talons can easily do over 12k dmg, but Encase or rather Shattering Prison does 30% of that. Seeing as how Sorc has so many skills, but so many are often not being utilized by decent players. Maybe it's time (it's been time for a while now) to reevaluate them.

Also, loved the "middle finger" analogy. Really shows how insignificantly insightful you are but thanks for the reply.

Sorcery/prophesy whatever - point was made.

8% of 3.5k??? Man, i typically wont leave the inn without at least 15k health or more commonly 20k where that turns into 1200 healing from dark magic for the 15k or 1600 for the 20k before any bonuses like powered, CP heal done, Cp heal rec etc. Depending on content, build, etc its not unusual for sorcerer's for instance to thrive on multiple "insignificant" by your standards heals all adding up and accuring as they fight without need for losing ticks for heals. Dark magic is in the same ballpark of healing as Surge but with only needing the damage from dark not crit to proc.

But to each his own.

Glad you liked my middle finger.

Enjoy.

OP probably hasn't read the passive properly and thinks that it heals for 8% of damage done.

STEVIL

Berenhir wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

If you want to root a breach with Talons, you need to be in the thick of things.

If you want to root a breach with encase, you can stay out of harms way.

Stop trying to make everything the same.

yep.

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

So far, the only reasoning that makes sense is that it has long range. Honestly, that is a nice effect, though Talons does affect enemies behind and all around you. Both effects are very situational to their respective classes. Sorc is more range and DK is close. I don't believe one is better than the other in this situation. You actually have to be somewhat accurate with Encase if you want to immobilize more than one opponent, and I don't feel like the range is really that extravagant to brag about. It's not like you can immobilize someone as distant as a frost staff can with Destructive Reach.

As for the class passives, Minor Prophecy is nice. Unfortunately, the guy calling me unwise didn't do his research calling it Minor Sorcery. Blood Magic's 8% of 3.5k is garbage, definitely in pvp. DKs receive increased healing received and increased health regen (just for being slotted). Class passives should not matter in this case, but if they did, I would have to say both classes receive somewhat decent passives from their respective skill lines.

I'm not saying this skill is completely useless, but in comparison to Talons, it's a bit laughable. Talons can easily do over 12k dmg, but Encase or rather Shattering Prison does 30% of that. Seeing as how Sorc has so many skills, but so many are often not being utilized by decent players. Maybe it's time (it's been time for a while now) to reevaluate them.

Also, loved the "middle finger" analogy. Really shows how insignificantly insightful you are but thanks for the reply.

Sorcery/prophesy whatever - point was made.

8% of 3.5k??? Man, i typically wont leave the inn without at least 15k health or more commonly 20k where that turns into 1200 healing from dark magic for the 15k or 1600 for the 20k before any bonuses like powered, CP heal done, Cp heal rec etc. Depending on content, build, etc its not unusual for sorcerer's for instance to thrive on multiple "insignificant" by your standards heals all adding up and accuring as they fight without need for losing ticks for heals. Dark magic is in the same ballpark of healing as Surge but with only needing the damage from dark not crit to proc.

But to each his own.

Glad you liked my middle finger.

Enjoy.

OP probably hasn't read the passive properly and thinks that it heals for 8% of damage done.

Ahh.. that whole research thing that was brought up?

Upright_man

oh **** off sorc... like we dont have it good enough...

theres nothing wrong with that skill, i use it from a nice safe distance in my nice safe bubble shield and can fire it one direction then turn and go again if there are mobs in another direction who are too dangerously close.

whats the issue? you want it do cover 360 degrees with huge range and do more damage? O_o?

cpuScientist

Well these answers were incredibly rude.

Encase just outranges it. And pairs up nicely with the skill set of a sorc. You streak through and then encase them. If they are in a dangerous ultimate. Or to keep them in your destro ultimate. It's a ranged root. Talons does more damage or applies maim sure, but you have to be closer. I think it's 6m radius, to encases 8 I believe. And that 8 means alot. Could it get a boost maybe if ZOS feels it's underperforming, I think the damage if they break free could go up a touch sure but it's fine as is, happy it got a cost decrease though.

datgladiatah

I think the thing about it the morph, and the issue I also have with crystal blast, is that the morph of one simply isn't comparable to the morph of the other. Sure, encase is morphed. I use it in PVP and it's honestly awesome. But shattering prison has more PVE use than the one that snares after it's cast, because it makes casting encase again easier and once they can't escape you can use abilities that ACTUALLY do damage and will kill yousr target. At a PVP level I don't see any reason to go shattering prison if you can use other damage options. So from a pve perspective, talons outperforms it by a lot, and if you're using encase just to keep waves at bay, again the snaring effect will probably perform better and make rotating it easier.

I see no reason not to give it a damage buff. There simply isn't enough of a reason to morph shattering prison. Simply doing some kind of damage isn't good enough reasoning considering how it's used.