Magicka DKs - PvP [Light or Heavy?]

psychotic13

I'm an experienced sorc/magblade more than anything and I've levelled a magicka DK but am not sure if I should go light or heavy.

I prefer light for the recovery etc. but I'm not sure if a DK can pull it off? im not 100% decided on anything yet, hence the thread looking for some ideas

scorpiodog

psychotic13 wrote: »

I'm an experienced sorc/magblade more than anything and I've levelled a magicka DK but am not sure if I should go light or heavy.

I prefer light for the recovery etc. but I'm not sure if a DK can pull it off? im not 100% decided on anything yet, hence the thread looking for some ideas

I have a character in the same boat. What I'm thinking is that if I go more support and behind the lines of a group as a kind of Healer / Buffer I'd go more light. But unless you get more shields that just the one from light armor skill line you'll be toast. The problem is if you use your gear to give you more shields it will decrease your damage.

So basically I see three choices for light armor MagDK:

1 - Hope your group protects you
2 - Use armor sets that proc shields and / or put shield glyphs on weapons (thus lowering your Damage).
3 - Spam the Heck out of Annulment / Harness Magicka and hope nobody on the other side can count to 6 better than you can.

In other words I'll probably go heavy if I take him to Pvp ...

psychotic13

scorpiodog wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

I'm an experienced sorc/magblade more than anything and I've levelled a magicka DK but am not sure if I should go light or heavy.

I prefer light for the recovery etc. but I'm not sure if a DK can pull it off? im not 100% decided on anything yet, hence the thread looking for some ideas

I have a character in the same boat. What I'm thinking is that if I go more support and behind the lines of a group as a kind of Healer / Buffer I'd go more light. But unless you get more shields that just the one from light armor skill line you'll be toast. The problem is if you use your gear to give you more shields it will decrease your damage.

So basically I see three choices for light armor MagDK:

1 - Hope your group protects you
2 - Use armor sets that proc shields and / or put shield glyphs on weapons (thus lowering your Damage).
3 - Spam the Heck out of Annulment / Harness Magicka and hope nobody on the other side can count to 6 better than you can.

In other words I'll probably go heavy if I take him to Pvp ...

I thought annulment wouldn't be enough, the magblade can survive with it and healing Ward but they have better passives for magicka, and people use sets like Necropotence to get the most out of it, that's not really an option for DKs so I figured I'd ask opinions.

If I decide to go heavy, what's a good set to complement a MagDK? I plan on using BSW as I already have the set, most likely with skoria/grothdarr and then the heavy set (or light if I decided to do that)

I'm still not 100% sure between destro and DW either, so any experienced DKs feel free to drop some advice I'm used to shield stacking lol

Vynn

In PvP survival for a dk is predicated on taking hits without escape. Lacking repetitious rolls, eternal blocking (unless you build for tanking...yawn), effective class shields, or escape abilities (sans mist), taking a hit is important. Go with heavy. Battleroar will help your resources (but not solve issues with them fully, obviously). Slight resource return from being "in the sh*t" in heavy armor helps as well.

psychotic13

Vynn wrote: »

In PvP survival for a dk is predicated on taking hits without escape. Lacking repetitious rolls, eternal blocking (unless you build for tanking...yawn), effective class shields, or escape abilities (sans mist), taking a hit is important. Go with heavy. Battleroar will help your resources (but not solve issues with them fully, obviously). Slight resource return from being "in the sh*t" in heavy armor helps as well.

Any heavy sets you recommend, I'm thinking blackrose may be decent with the magicka change, other heavy sets that crossed my mind were elfbane and rattlecage

Out of curiosity how do you run your ability bars? And do you like DW/SnB/Destro?

Vynn

Im using rattlcage currently, along with grothdarr and BSW. Mainly so i can get the spell dmg buff without the loss of an ability slot. Black rose is decent as well from what i hear, but i haven't tested it.
Dw (again, rattle buff as well as sharpened)
Embers, talons, lash, deep breath, last slot varies between chains (ugh...), engulfing or prox det. Bats as ult.
I switch off between resto and destro pending group makeup. Stonefist (i know other dks scream fossilize here but i prefer a stun that doesnt break at my first DoT tick, wtv, preference), elusive mist, volatile armor, db or healing ward (again pending grp makeup), then alternate prox/chains. Ult varies. Eots, dawnB (quick cheap dmg, but meh for magicka), or meteor, which I'm not a fan of lately. Next patch it will be feroleap for burst fire dmg. But likely swapped to the other bar.

psychotic13

Any other set ups people?

yodased

Kags s+b and resto

Front bar whip, embers, mist, fossilize, draw essence meteor

Back bar healing ward, volitile armor, igneous weapons, wings, mage light magma armor

Tank them draw resources down, dot fossilize meteor.

Rez everyone its a free magic pot.

The_Lex

psychotic13 wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

In PvP survival for a dk is predicated on taking hits without escape. Lacking repetitious rolls, eternal blocking (unless you build for tanking...yawn), effective class shields, or escape abilities (sans mist), taking a hit is important. Go with heavy. Battleroar will help your resources (but not solve issues with them fully, obviously). Slight resource return from being "in the sh*t" in heavy armor helps as well.

Any heavy sets you recommend, I'm thinking blackrose may be decent with the magicka change, other heavy sets that crossed my mind were elfbane and rattlecage

Out of curiosity how do you run your ability bars? And do you like DW/SnB/Destro?

Rattlecage is a great set. I pair it with another set that provides more resources.

Narvuntien

What is Elf bane like for a MagDK?
Went to look at the available heavy armors...

I looking at the hybrid tanking sets as an option since you want stamina for blocking.
Trainee or Twice born star heavy. I am a Dumner dragonmage afterall

If I want to play PVP with this character I understand the need for heavier armor but then I might have mana issues.
I am actually still confused about what weapons to use since I can basically do everything I would want to do with staffs with DK class skills.
But I am using destruction staff because I had mana issues when I tried out dual wield.

EldritchPenguin

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am actually still confused about what weapons to use since I can basically do everything I would want to do with staffs with DK class skills.
But I am using destruction staff because I had mana issues when I tried out dual wield.

Most people run sword and board on the front bar, and either Destro (for EOTS), Resto (for Healing Ward), or S+B (for extra tackiness) on the back bar. On the back bar, it's mostly personal preference, but S+B is practically mandatory IMO.

psychotic13

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am actually still confused about what weapons to use since I can basically do everything I would want to do with staffs with DK class skills.
But I am using destruction staff because I had mana issues when I tried out dual wield.

Most people run sword and board on the front bar, and either Destro (for EOTS), Resto (for Healing Ward), or S+B (for extra tackiness) on the back bar. On the back bar, it's mostly personal preference, but S+B is practically mandatory IMO.

Why do so many DKs use SnB in pvp? Do they block a lot or is it simply for the 'tankiness' because if it's for that surely I'd be better off going DW (1 sharpened 1 defending) cause I'd be getting about the same resistance as a shield, but more spell damage and access to twin blade and blunt passive?

Takes-No-Prisoner

Silks of the Sun 5x pc(jewlrey, S+B), Seducers 5x pc (heavy armor) 1pc Malubeth Heavy(want light tbh) 1pc Infernal Guardian light. So 6 heavy, 1 light.

He sits on 30.8k health, Race is Argonian w/ attributes being 64 Magic.


S+B in PvP since it has synergy with DKs blocking passives, Shield gives a little more magicka/Impen. The S+B skill line also provides us with blocking reduction so we can block hard hitting attacks and it won't be as expensive on our stamina. I like running Restro on back for Molten Armaments buffs and HA Restro hurts my enemy/ helps me regain magic.

I would like to run Light Armor in PvP, but due to the proc nature of PvP atm, I would prefer to sit on more then 30k health, run Major Ward/Resolve and sit around 2.8k crit resist since I can't run away as well as Sorc/NB.

yodased wrote: »

Kags s+b and resto

Front bar whip, embers, mist, fossilize, draw essence meteor

Back bar healing ward, volitile armor, igneous weapons, wings, mage light magma armor

Tank them draw resources down, dot fossilize meteor.

Rez everyone its a free magic pot.

yea @ what yodased said about Fossilize. It's an amazing root and I've really rekt'ed people that don't see the telegraph on it and aren't sure how to deal with it.

I have been scinecing slapping them with Burning Embers, Fossilize, Whip, then Ferocious Leap will probably be a death sentence once Ferocious Leap turns into Flame damage.

As a knock back ability, I honestly prefer Ferocious Leap over Meteor because it comes out very unexpectedly. Meteor has to much start up and is worthless if it gets blocked. If I am right next to my enemy, they will NOT have enough time to block Leap if I punch it right in front of their face.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

On my mDK I carry a wide variety of gear depending on what I am doing from super tanking to super glassy:

Black Rose/Desert Rose>Rattlecage/Desert Rose> Rattlecage/Lich (front bar VMA staff)>BSW/Lich (BSW Staff/Lich S+B).

The first two are double S/B and the first three are 5 heavy. Only the last combo is all light. It is frankly the one I play the least. While it is very powerful in a bomb group, you really lack survivability. I would only ever run this if you are well organized with good heals. In open world, I run the Desert Rose/Black Rose Double S+B most of the time, but lately I have been moving more towards the Rattlecage/lich Combo, mostly because I prefer a front bar staff for a little more damage.

psychotic13

Well I primarily play solo pvp / duel, I haven't really seen many magDKs in light Armor Hense the thread.

I'm even thinking of not using a monster set, and running x5 BSW x5 Trainee x3 Willpower and proc'ing spellweave from the back bar since I'll be using a few flame dots it procs reliably. This also gives a large magicka pool (hopefully will benefit the new cDB)

The other thought I had about light, if I use light I'll be using bastion for CP, as ferocious leap is going to do flame damage and gives a shield, this would boost that too. Though I know it's not something I should be relying on to survive

Waffennacht

I wanna chyme in, not from the DK perspective but from someone whom has been facing A LOT of them.

Light Armor DKs: They come in hard, if I stay within that Grothdarr red ring I have to go defensive and will die given any length of time. Whip, Grothdarr and a few of the above combos with talons/fossilize etc wraps it up. If I can maintain out side that ring, kiting with roots snares etc usually means a death sentence as they can't take as much damage.

Heavy DKs: Damage isn't nearly as pressing as the LA, losing resources and getting stuck in a hard CC at half health followed by a combo is how this build can kill me. The one major thing I've noticed is how hard to kill these guys it can be. I feel the healing capabilities of well done mDK can be almost as annoying as a templar.

I feel if I can survive the initial burst in the beginning of a duel against a LA mDK i can win, I feel a Heavy mDK requires a more sustain type playstyle - I can't over extend.

Sitting here I can't decide which I would rather fight...

Takes-No-Prisoner

I have seen Grothdarr in pvp.

LOL yeah you don't want to be standing in that at all. Even on a Templar it can be annoying to fight against.

As far as LA MagDK with Grothdarr, I can understand that mind set. You gotta go all in and get your damage since the character won't be tanking much damage for long. But, that heavily relies on a proc. Which won't be doing crit next update. Wonder if we will see this disappear?

Armitas

Shields don't really work under heavy fire. They need to be coupled with mobility which we don't have, otherwise they won't last to the power creep and proc/trigger sets. I think most of us, including myself, are in HA, and most have BSW on, though I use kags/bloodthorn.

I am working on a LA build on the PTS but I need some more time with it. It's a LA shield/mitigation hybrid build that slides from shields to raw mitigation. It couples 6% rugged, ~25% Hardy/Elemental defender, and 5% buffer of the swift(4 pieces) which provides 36%(?) mitigation before shields along with around 26,000 raw mitigation after a bloodspawn proc. I think vampire undeath works before shields too. So rather than stacking Bastion for larger shields you stack Hardy and Elemental defender for shield mitigation, along with nord and swift. On PTS ferocious leap is going to do fire damage, but it also gives a huge shield so it's meant to take full advantage of that while sliding seamlessly between tanky shield defense, raw mitigation, and casual frost blocking. No idea how it's going to perform but so far it does seem to be tanky, which I haven't seen in a long time from LA. Hopefully I can get some duels this weekend to see if it's worthwhile or not.

It's 2 Bloodspawn, 5 LA dps set (trying Julianos atm), and 4 buffer of the swift. It seemed like the right way to go to get shields to work given our mobility conditions.

Ishammael

I think you'll find success running BSW + Tava in 5H. Dual SW/sh bars. Monster set of your choice: Groth, Bloodspawn, Valkyn, Malu.

Shuffle is just too good to not run on a melee character.

exeeter702

I tried to go 5l kags/bsw/grothdar/SnB & Resto. 3k crit resist and i simply keel over with any amount of pressure outside of a duel.

And even in 5l, sustain is needlessly difficult. Im actually at a loss and could use some help. HA sustain feels even worse, even with black rose.

Being a dumner instead if HE or breton and not being a vamp is hurting me im sure. But even then, gaining any more recovery would put me below 2k unbuffed SD.

Idk...

lucky_Sage

psychotic13 wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am actually still confused about what weapons to use since I can basically do everything I would want to do with staffs with DK class skills.
But I am using destruction staff because I had mana issues when I tried out dual wield.

Most people run sword and board on the front bar, and either Destro (for EOTS), Resto (for Healing Ward), or S+B (for extra tackiness) on the back bar. On the back bar, it's mostly personal preference, but S+B is practically mandatory IMO.

Why do so many DKs use SnB in pvp? Do they block a lot or is it simply for the 'tankiness' because if it's for that surely I'd be better off going DW (1 sharpened 1 defending) cause I'd be getting about the same resistance as a shield, but more spell damage and access to twin blade and blunt passive?

a lot of magdks purma block but its boring unless its your play style I prefer duel wield main and ill switch up s&b destroy or resto on back bar for different things.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

psychotic13 wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am actually still confused about what weapons to use since I can basically do everything I would want to do with staffs with DK class skills.
But I am using destruction staff because I had mana issues when I tried out dual wield.

Most people run sword and board on the front bar, and either Destro (for EOTS), Resto (for Healing Ward), or S+B (for extra tackiness) on the back bar. On the back bar, it's mostly personal preference, but S+B is practically mandatory IMO.

Why do so many DKs use SnB in pvp? Do they block a lot or is it simply for the 'tankiness' because if it's for that surely I'd be better off going DW (1 sharpened 1 defending) cause I'd be getting about the same resistance as a shield, but more spell damage and access to twin blade and blunt passive?

It really depends on what you are doing. There are definitely plenty of builds that basically you dont drop block. If I am wearing my Black Rose/Desert Rose combo, I am pretty much permablocking in combat. This build essentially requires you to get hit to get resources, but its super tanky. On a DK you get your kills by CCs and DOTs and AOE when doing this. It's great for holding a breach or choke point.

DKs also do have a pretty decent class spammable in whip, so unlike some other classes, we arent required to look to weapon skills for our damage. Some DKs like DW instead of S/B for more damage, but personally I do not. I think the damage you get does not outweigh the mitigation that you lose. If I want to go more glassy, then I prefer a flame staff because it gives me range and allows me to weave my skills.

K4RMA

Heavy is meta rn so... just use 10 piece julianos medium armor

Savos_Saren

@psychotic13 - you post a lot on some of my topics... I'm not sure if you've seen this setup that I've posted recently.

This is my PVP setup for my mDK. 5pc Kagrenac (impen heavy armor and sword) 5pc Burning Spellweave (jewelry, sash, shield w/ inferno staff on back bar) and 2 Valkyn Skoria (heavy helm, medium shoulders).



These are the stats that you'll most likely see if you're a Dunmer DK.

SnB Bar: Burning Embers, Flame Lash, Volatile Armor, Burning Talons, Petrify. Ultimate: Devouring Swarm

Inferno Staff Bar: Dragon Fire Scales, Impulse, Inner Light, Igneous Weapons/Mist Form, Wall of Elements. Ultimate: Meteor

Savos_Saren

Also: If you want to push your limits with damage and max magicka- I tried a suggestion of DW and Grothgarr:



While it's a powerful setup- I ended up going back to my sword and shield build with Valkyn. But that's only because I am sentimental toward Valkyn and I like the whole sword/shield "knight" idea.

EldritchPenguin

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

I have seen Grothdarr in pvp.

LOL yeah you don't want to be standing in that at all. Even on a Templar it can be annoying to fight against.

As far as LA MagDK with Grothdarr, I can understand that mind set. You gotta go all in and get your damage since the character won't be tanking much damage for long. But, that heavily relies on a proc. Which won't be doing crit next update. Wonder if we will see this disappear?

It's probably not going anywhere. It's not like MagDKs really have any room to be stacking crit in PvP, even if they're going for a mostly offensive setup. Most of the ones I've seen run Burning Spellweave or Silks of the Sun, the former of which has phenomenal synergy with Grothdarr. And that's usually about it for offense, since MagDKs have horrible sustain and really need to devote a 5-piece set to it.

I don't think our beloved lava geyser is going anywhere in PvE or PvP.

psychotic13

jaburns wrote: »

@psychotic13 - you post a lot on some of my topics... I'm not sure if you've seen this setup that I've posted recently.

This is my PVP setup for my mDK. 5pc Kagrenac (impen heavy armor and sword) 5pc Burning Spellweave (jewelry, sash, shield w/ inferno staff on back bar) and 2 Valkyn Skoria (heavy helm, medium shoulders).



These are the stats that you'll most likely see if you're a Dunmer DK.

SnB Bar: Burning Embers, Flame Lash, Volatile Armor, Burning Talons, Petrify. Ultimate: Devouring Swarm

Inferno Staff Bar: Dragon Fire Scales, Impulse, Inner Light, Igneous Weapons/Mist Form, Wall of Elements. Ultimate: Meteor

Yeah I was the one who suggested you tried DW over SnB haha, have you tried light Armor at all? If so does it work for you? Is your regen enough to sustain you?

Why wall of elements for pvp? and what do you use to heal with that set up? Just embers?

I'm pretty good on my sorc and magblade but playing a DK is totally different it's taking some time to adjust for me

NBrookus

Narvuntien wrote: »

What is Elf bane like for a MagDK?

Given the raw number of purges running around Cyrodiil, it's currently a wasted set bonus IMO. That may change for fire destro DKs in the next patch when Elf Bane will be working with the destro ult.

If I want to play PVP with this character I understand the need for heavier armor but then I might have mana issues.
I am actually still confused about what weapons to use since I can basically do everything I would want to do with staffs with DK class skills.
But I am using destruction staff because I had mana issues when I tried out dual wield.

Most all-purpose open-world mDKs run one sustain set (Seducer, Kags, etc.) and one damage set (Sun, BSW, etc.) and monster set (Grothdarr, Skoria, Bloodspawn) 5 heavy+1+1 or 5+2. You can't get away from our sustain issues in PvP without raid buffs and support; hence the need for the sustain set. And you have no mobility and situational heals, so in comes the heavy armor.

There are other group support options, but there are good reasons light armor DKs are an endangered species in Cyro -- they usually don't last long unless they are embedded in a zerg with tons of heals, purges and AoE cap mitigation.