Is a Stamina+Magicka hybrid build able to be made viable?

Albino_Dunmer

I'm basically asking if there is any way to make a build that could be viable for end game content that has attributes and abilities split between Stamina and Magicka.

This is more of a challenge to see if such a build is possible, more than me looking to run a build like this that is viable for all content.

I'd assume it'd require some highly specific gear set ups to even be viable, let alone optimal.

dday3six

As a Tank certainly. As a DPS or Healer, no.

usmcjdking

Albino_Dunmer wrote: »

I'm basically asking if there is any way to make a build that could be viable for end game content that has attributes and abilities split between Stamina and Magicka.

This is more of a challenge to see if such a build is possible, more than me looking to run a build like this that is viable for all content.

I'd assume it'd require some highly specific gear set ups to even be viable, let alone optimal.

Here's my hybrid sorc's build:

5 Medium Pelinals
3 Agility (all arcane)
2 Stormfist
DW Sharp Maelstrom/Maelstrom Sharp Lightning Staff

I'm not some hardcore cheeseball, but the best parse I have pulled is 33k on Ra'Kotu in VHRC - highest other DPS was 41-42k IIRC which puts you at about the 75% mark for DPS efficiency.

The answer to your question is YES, it can be done and made viable! You have to remember there are 4 separate parameters for a build:

Non-functional: The build is simply too weak and cannot support the gameplay that I envisioned for it.

Functional: The build works and meets the markers for baseline success, but does not go beyond such.

Viable: There are clear gaps and weaknesses within the build, but those can be remedied to a degree by careful selection of skills and support items.

Competitive: The build has no real weakness and is capable of hanging with the best of them.

As it currently stands, well built hybrids fall between functional and viable but they have clear gaps you just can't escape
.
CRIT - inability to stack both weapon and spell crit means you lose a *** ton of efficiency with crit overall compared to dedicated stat builds. This is the BIGGEST discrepancy and what makes hybrids fall off considerably with the crit meta.

LOW MAX STATS - Even with 5/1/1 and dark elf, the best split resources you'll see is 27k. However, that doesn't necessarily mean you should build towards 27k on each stat - you will need to do many, many DPS tests to find out where the majority of your damage is coming from and split your resources accordingly.

SLOT HUNGRY - having to dedicate two bars to separate attribute lines is brutal.

CHAMPION POINTS - CP is what murders hybrids more than anything in ESO. We have 1 star that is good for us, thaum. Everything else is a huge split between the two and hoping for the best.

Curragraigue

dday3six wrote: »

As a Tank certainly. As a DPS or Healer, no.

This^

If you search for hybrid DPS builds you will find a few posts where people have tried but yet to see one that is viable for anything more than fun rather than end game.

Some PvP builds can work being slightly more hybrid than a end game PvE but that is about the only other viable ones I can think of. Really tank is the best bet for viable hybrid.

bantad87

Hundings + Pelinal. Probably as close as you'll get. Probably won't be able to deal out the damage of a stamina or magical user though.

Xvorg

Albino_Dunmer wrote: »

I'm basically asking if there is any way to make a build that could be viable for end game content that has attributes and abilities split between Stamina and Magicka.

This is more of a challenge to see if such a build is possible, more than me looking to run a build like this that is viable for all content.

I'd assume it'd require some highly specific gear set ups to even be viable, let alone optimal.

I have a decent hybrid, but I don't dare to use it endgame content. It's basicaly a Msorc with a bow, 5 medium, 2 light (kena's shoulder)
5 Red Mountain + 5 elegance

Bar

Poison inject
endless fury
surge
velocious
crystal frags

The rotation is quite simple: Surge -> Full heavy -> poison inject -> LA -> endless fury-> LA ->Velocious. Frags any time it procs.

For defense, dodge rolling

The_Duke

I have a pelinals sorc and DK build. Pvp only. Very strong once you get the hang of it. I hit reward level 3 the first night I tried out my DK so that's 100 000k AP on a new build. Wouldnt dare try it in pve. Then again I dont pve unless I have to.

Kutsuu

You'll never build something that is min/max competitive with the top builds in PVE. However, you can build something that can sufficiently complete most PVE content and moreso is good in PVP.

Take a templar for example:

5 piece Pelinal's armor (heavy or medium), 1x Velidreth, 1x Kena (or 2x Velidreth), 3x Agility, 1x Maelstrom 2h, back bar probably a destro for EoTS. Tri food, prismatic glyphs on big pieces, stam glyphs on small pieces, attribute points in stam. You should reach ~3500-4k SD/WD and ~35k stam, ~17k magicka. Your Radiant Destruction and Honor the Dead will be very effective, but you'll play more like a stam DPS for the most part with jabs, crit rush, wrecking blow. IMO a pure stam or pure magicka build will be stronger, but you can have a lot of fun and do well with this build.

Albino_Dunmer

Ahh, some great answers. I guess the next question is what could be done to make them more competitive without harming the pure builds.

Maybe give up a set spot by having a 5 piece that makes magic and physical weapon damage scale off the highest stat value between the two? You wouldn't be split between magicka or stamina. You'd dump it all into one. But you'd have a lot less of one resource so it'd be used sparingly but effectively. Giving up a set spot would hurt a build. But the variety might open up some interesting build options.

However, I'd like to hear more of your suggestions. The goal isn't imbalance, but more a flavor build that can compete in end game. How would we get hybrid builds there?

Kutsuu

Albino_Dunmer wrote: »

Ahh, some great answers. I guess the next question is what could be done to make them more competitive without harming the pure builds.

Maybe give up a set spot by having a 5 piece that makes magic and physical weapon damage scale off the highest stat value between the two? You wouldn't be split between magicka or stamina. You'd dump it all into one. But you'd have a lot less of one resource so it'd be used sparingly but effectively. Giving up a set spot would hurt a build. But the variety might open up some interesting build options.

However, I'd like to hear more of your suggestions. The goal isn't imbalance, but more a flavor build that can compete in end game. How would we get hybrid builds there?

I don't think it's possible to have them be completely min/max competitive with pure builds, because that would be sort of unfair to the builds that are honed to a single purpose and don't have the versatility that a hybrid can.

Did you look at Pelinal's?

Softcaps would be the biggest thing to bring hybrids back. It will never happen.

Albino_Dunmer

Nope. I thought I looked up most of the sets but I was wrong. I only started playing a month and a half ago so admittedly, my knowledge is pretty limited and I like to make weird builds work. Didn't realize Pelinal set was like that.

As far as being as good as Pure mag or Stam? I agree, it shouldn't be quite as optimal. But then again, losing a set bonus just for more variety is a pretty big loss stat wise. Especially when focused builds can still take advantage of buffs from magic or stamina based abilities while having a set that is more geared towards their build. No matter what, you are losing a fair chunk of DPS by losing something like TBS, Viper, Hundings Rage, NMG, Leviathan, Spriggan, Spinners, etc etc.

The_Duke

On my dk hybrid Im at 3500 WD 30 000 stam and 20 000 mag. Still grinding fighters guild to get flawless DB to boost it further. Its possible to hit good numbers but you will always be limited with the current CP cap.

usmcjdking

Albino_Dunmer wrote: »

Ahh, some great answers. I guess the next question is what could be done to make them more competitive without harming the pure builds.

Maybe give up a set spot by having a 5 piece that makes magic and physical weapon damage scale off the highest stat value between the two? You wouldn't be split between magicka or stamina. You'd dump it all into one. But you'd have a lot less of one resource so it'd be used sparingly but effectively. Giving up a set spot would hurt a build. But the variety might open up some interesting build options.

However, I'd like to hear more of your suggestions. The goal isn't imbalance, but more a flavor build that can compete in end game. How would we get hybrid builds there?

Removal of CP cap and near maximum CP would be required for Hybrids to be competitive as they benefit significantly more from additional CP than straight builds do. Even with maximum CP, I'm doubt that it would eclipse a straight build.

There are simply a lot of limitations that hybrids will never be able to overcome.

Kutsuu

usmcjdking wrote: »

Albino_Dunmer wrote: »

Ahh, some great answers. I guess the next question is what could be done to make them more competitive without harming the pure builds.

Maybe give up a set spot by having a 5 piece that makes magic and physical weapon damage scale off the highest stat value between the two? You wouldn't be split between magicka or stamina. You'd dump it all into one. But you'd have a lot less of one resource so it'd be used sparingly but effectively. Giving up a set spot would hurt a build. But the variety might open up some interesting build options.

However, I'd like to hear more of your suggestions. The goal isn't imbalance, but more a flavor build that can compete in end game. How would we get hybrid builds there?

Removal of CP cap and near maximum CP would be required for Hybrids to be competitive as they benefit significantly more from additional CP than straight builds do. Even with maximum CP, I'm doubt that it would eclipse a straight build.

There are simply a lot of limitations that hybrids will never be able to overcome.

Azura's Star is the answer, really. There are lots of viable hybrid options once you take no CPs into mind. But again, only in PVP.

EldritchPenguin

Kutsuu wrote: »

You'll never build something that is min/max competitive with the top builds in PVE. However, you can build something that can sufficiently complete most PVE content and moreso is good in PVP.

Take a templar for example:

5 piece Pelinal's armor (heavy or medium), 1x Velidreth, 1x Kena (or 2x Velidreth), 3x Agility, 1x Maelstrom 2h, back bar probably a destro for EoTS. Tri food, prismatic glyphs on big pieces, stam glyphs on small pieces, attribute points in stam. You should reach ~3500-4k SD/WD and ~35k stam, ~17k magicka. Your Radiant Destruction and Honor the Dead will be very effective, but you'll play more like a stam DPS for the most part with jabs, crit rush, wrecking blow. IMO a pure stam or pure magicka build will be stronger, but you can have a lot of fun and do well with this build.

The benefit of this in PvP is that it's wildly unexpected. Nobody would expect Wrecking Blow to lead into Radiant Oppression. You could probably get gank victims to wet themselves if you could pull it off.