BRETON RACIAL PASSIVE CHANGE

Xinthisis

Currently there is very little incentive to use breton over highelf or darkelf in a magic build. To stick to something more traditional racial wise from previous TES games I propose to change.

Proposal:

Change out the 3% magicka cost reduction for a 3% max magicka return every 4 seconds when hit by a magick damage attack. *Edit*



This is supposed to be a magicka/stamina balance patch, and redguard is the best overall stam class in game for a reason. Highelf and darkelf would still have it's own place and unlike Redguard passive it's not guaranteed as when you're fighting a stamina build you won't be damaged by frost, flame, or shock damage.

What say you ESO?

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

SkylarkX

Sounds like a nerf to me

Tadhg_Longhouse

I'd rather keep the 3% cost reduction. Changing the passive to something you have to be hit to benefit from is not going to make the race more popular for DPS casters.

redspecter23

I'll keep the 3% reduction, thank you.

Artis

Give increased magic damage or something along the lines - maybe all damage (but lower % than altmer to make them equal overall) or just a magic but higher % since it's not really used and most damage done by mages is elemental.

There are a couple of elemental damage passives, but none for magic damage. Either way, the race needs a damage passive to catch up with dunmer and altmer.

LegacyDM

Ok why the caps? Secondly, why do you think there is very little incentive to play Breton? Thirdly, when they changed the magicka regen from multiplicative to additive the value of cost reduction went up. I actually like the 3% and your proposal is a nerf not a boon.

Dasovaruilos

Bretons are maybe the best class for healing because of the cost reduction.

If you make this change, it would be a offensive magicka class only.

Xinthisis

40k max magicka= 1200 every 4 seconds so as long as you're fighting a magicka build you have 600 regen.

3% cost reduc on 4 skills. As any class in pve or pve you're going to get hit at some point.

Also, cost reduction being additive is a major problem in this game in the first place. Soon enough they'll need to adjust it as cp increases. Breton is really only top tier on a breton templar atm, and even then highelf competes with some cases it being better. 3% cost reduction versus ~600 mag recovery while in combat with a magicka damage build. Racial passives that give some unique form of utility is what makes them strong. There is a reason redguard is the best race overall for stamina builds versus something like a kahjiit or a woodelf.

Bring some diversity. 3% cost reduction with 4 skills with good animation cancelling with an average base cost of 3500 equates to 105 saved per skill. So average of 420 magicka. With builds that exist getting 40k+ max magicka. Having it base its sustain off its max magicka like redguard would open up many different build opportunities outside of just running a sub par heal plar that gets overshadowed by an argonian blockplar.

This game gets a lot of flack for "not being a Elder Scrolls game" and the most success zos has had is because they have made it more like a traditional TES game. Racial passives are a big deal for some newer players, and this post is to get the conversation started.

All caps is "provocative, it gets the people going".

Kutsuu

Problem is that you're focusing 100% on PvP here. Breton is the go-to healer race and many are using it for that purpose. This would amount to a nerf in PVE in almost all cases.

Xinthisis

Kutsuu wrote: »

Problem is that you're focusing 100% on PvP here. Breton is the go-to healer race and many are using it for that purpose. This would amount to a nerf in PVE in almost all cases.

Go to? are you sure about that? Isn't argonian the "go to" atm with healing done and healing received? I don't pve much, but I can just look at the passives and see that Argonian is best, as it should be.

susmitds

Xinthisis wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Problem is that you're focusing 100% on PvP here. Breton is the go-to healer race and many are using it for that purpose. This would amount to a nerf in PVE in almost all cases.

Go to? are you sure about that? Isn't argonian the "go to" atm with healing done and healing received? I don't pve much, but I can just look at the passives and see that Argonian is best, as it should be.

Argonian is no way a good healing race IMO. 5% extra healing done is useless as even races with no magicka/healing passive overheals by a lot. My Imperial magplar gets BoLs more than twice the average health of most players. At that point, what matters is sustain and extra damage done. When your heals already tick harder than tree average players HP, it is useless adding more healing done.

Derra

Breton 3% cost reduction is already better than highelf 9% regen.

You want to buff that? Wat?

TrueGreenSmoker

My magicka NB is a Breton but ever since T1 came out I wish he was a High Elf or Dark Elf.. guess I just keep him lol.. (Not buying tokens for race change not spending money on ESO anymore)

Kutsuu

susmitds wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Problem is that you're focusing 100% on PvP here. Breton is the go-to healer race and many are using it for that purpose. This would amount to a nerf in PVE in almost all cases.

Go to? are you sure about that? Isn't argonian the "go to" atm with healing done and healing received? I don't pve much, but I can just look at the passives and see that Argonian is best, as it should be.

Argonian is no way a good healing race IMO. 5% extra healing done is useless as even races with no magicka/healing passive overheals by a lot. My Imperial magplar gets BoLs more than twice the average health of most players. At that point, what matters is sustain and extra damage done. When your heals already tick harder than tree average players HP, it is useless adding more healing done.

It's more of a PVP healing/tanking race, since healing done and received does matter with battle spirit and healing debuffs. I've seen some people using that race for trolltank DKs and magplars.

LegacyDM

Xinthisis wrote: »

40k max magicka= 1200 every 4 seconds so as long as you're fighting a magicka build you have 600 regen.

That's the problem right there. As long as your fighting a magicka build. I hate the idea of being handicapped and having a useless racial passive when I'm not fighting a magicka build. so what happens when I run into the ever powerful Stam class metas? Not everyone plays a gank build where you pick your target.

Xexpo

If we are going to change anything about Bretons... lets change the op spell resistance

Xinthisis

Xexpo wrote: »

If we are going to change anything about Bretons... lets change the op spell resistance

The resistance passives on races are useless in general. They used to scale much higher back in the pre cp days, and actually had a purpose. I wouldn't be opposed to all racial resistance passives outside of nord's base resist being buffed. They're lackluster at best, since there is nothing in game that increases resistances by a percentage. It's all hard numbers.

The game needs more of a TES touch, that's why they added in those other interesting passives. Like pickpocketing for kahjiit, or increased ap gain for imperials. It's something that kinda ties together the lineage of the name sake. It also wouldn't allow for people to abuse so much cost reduction. ESO used to be about making sacrifices, now its all about getting as much of everything that you possibly can.

LegacyDM wrote: »

Not everyone plays a gank build where you pick your target.

Not everyone wants to run in a 24 man with 3 fps pushing one button.

Derra

The spell resistance on breton is pretty good if you´re asking me ._.
I take that over altmer dmg for pvp no second thought.

Xinthisis

@Derra Good for you

Bryanonymous

No. Leave the #BretonMasterRace alone!

Joy_Division

I agree Breton isn't very good, but what you are proposing only makes them slightly better in specific situations. What am I supposed to do if I am fighting a stamina NB?

Minalan

Joy_Division wrote: »

I agree Breton isn't very good, but what you are proposing only makes them slightly better in specific situations. What am I supposed to do if I am fighting a stamina NB?

Die in less than two seconds.

SkylarkX

In defense of the current Breton passives, the max magicka is obviously good, the cost reduction generates the equivalent of 200-250 equivalent regen on high cost spammables if you're casting at least once per second (ie. breath of life, healing ward, destructive touch, eclipse, ambush, encase and so on), and the spell resistance equates to about 6% damage reduction against spell damage abilities. These are all good passives!

As far as I can see magicka return on specific damage types would only reliably benefit tanks in a pvp scenario.. You could run syrabanes grip to achieve the same thing, or desert rose to gain even more. As it stands, you can pull already pull around 5.3k magicka regen/return (which works through block/mistform) just by running desert rose and rune focus together in a high damage environment.

Xinthisis

Minalan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I agree Breton isn't very good, but what you are proposing only makes them slightly better in specific situations. What am I supposed to do if I am fighting a stamina NB?

Die in less than two seconds.

.3 seconds*

Well, I know when its a resounding no. I do want to keep a discussion going on talking about racial passive and how other players see certain passives compared to traditional titles.

Xinthisis

SkylarkX wrote: »

In defense of the current Breton passives, the max magicka is obviously good, the cost reduction generates the equivalent of 200-250 equivalent regen on high cost spammables if you're casting at least once per second (ie. breath of life, healing ward, destructive touch, eclipse, ambush, encase and so on), and the spell resistance equates to about 6% damage reduction against spell damage abilities. These are all good passives!

As far as I can see magicka return on specific damage types would only reliably benefit tanks in a pvp scenario.. You could run syrabanes grip to achieve the same thing, or desert rose to gain even more. As it stands, you can pull already pull around 5.3k magicka regen/return (which works through block/mistform) just by running desert rose and rune focus together in a high damage environment.

In a perfect world, things like that wouldn't exists yet here we are.

Siliziumdioxid

I'm actually on the wrong computer to answer the question whether breton or altmer is better for a pve dps character in sustained dps. Maybe tomorrow i do it in all mathematical circumstantiality because i already calculated it sometime ago. But before that i go to bed.
(If you can generate around 400 Magicka per second from elsewhere than regen Breton is probably better than Altmer - Exact values tomorrow) (considering 5 light, 100 magician rest arcanist. minimal base regenand being a templar.)

LegacyDM

Xinthisis wrote: »

Xexpo wrote: »

If we are going to change anything about Bretons... lets change the op spell resistance

The resistance passives on races are useless in general. They used to scale much higher back in the pre cp days, and actually had a purpose. I wouldn't be opposed to all racial resistance passives outside of nord's base resist being buffed. They're lackluster at best, since there is nothing in game that increases resistances by a percentage. It's all hard numbers.

The game needs more of a TES touch, that's why they added in those other interesting passives. Like pickpocketing for kahjiit, or increased ap gain for imperials. It's something that kinda ties together the lineage of the name sake. It also wouldn't allow for people to abuse so much cost reduction. ESO used to be about making sacrifices, now its all about getting as much of everything that you possibly can.

LegacyDM wrote: »

Not everyone plays a gank build where you pick your target.

Not everyone wants to run in a 24 man with 3 fps pushing one button.

Pushing what button? Who only plays pushing one button?

Personally, when my buddies aren't on, and when I'm playing solo, I like Zerg surfing or trying to find creative ways to get 1vx. Or group pvp off to the side. Or just roam around looking for people to gank between zergs. Your recommendation is situational whereas a flat 3% applies to all situations. You need to have a compromise. The 3% is THAT compromise. You and I both know there are a lot of stam players. What should We do? Ignore them and only engage magicka targets? If I don't ignore them, I'm down a passive...what is your logic here? that I get more against magicka targets? Where is the balance in all this? dont you main a stam nb?! So, I'm at a disadvantage if I run into YOU on the battlefield.

Look, we all know your some master theory crafter but based on your other post I can't take you seriously. What is in it for you? You truly want this for the goodness of eso lore? Lol? More likly you have some OP build in mind, (you probably won't even release to the community), in hopes ZOS takes action on your recommendation. Lol.

Xinthisis

@LegacyDM You're really mad that I'm not releasing the dk build aren't you? lol

Wait until next patch with mag plars. lol

Most of the suggestions balance wise are as a result of me playing the builds that utilize those broken mechanics. Like the Unchained passive nerf I specifically mentioned in one of my forum posts. The black rose change of one max stam buff to max magicka. I'm still hoping zos makes armor abilities usable only while in 5 pieces of that armor type. CP shouldn't give max stats, as with the way things stack in this game it makes it to where its near impossible to balance. I also fully agree that attacks from stealth should not stun unless they specifically have a stun on them, and might be worth looking into removing the auto crit. Keep the increased damage, just not the auto crit. Incap should not auto stun, it should be like it once was where it only stunned when you hit a person with more of a percentage of health then you do. Wrath passive should not be a thing on heavy armor. I could go on and on talking about balance changes that DIRECTLY affect the builds I run. Why? Because I actually care about balance in this game. I don't have an agenda, my only thing is that if something makes it past 2 full patches with my feedback and reports ignored. I'm going to end up using that broken mechanic.

Really, breton with the cost reduction will be best overall for the build next patch. I started thinking about breton and realized the missed opportunity zos had to have something more lore friendly. If they leave it as is, then it's fine. We'll just abuse it since the only way things get fixed is when enough people complain about it. I'm looking forward to a permablock nerf, maybe something along the lines of all aoes going through block again. We can only hope. So please, keep up the rage, the QQ, all of it. This game needs it.

LegacyDM

Xinthisis wrote: »

@LegacyDM You're really mad that I'm not releasing the dk build aren't you? lol

No not at all. I could care less, I don't even play a DK. DKs playstyle is singular minded and boring. I'm just of the mindset of freedom of distribution. Same philosophy as Linux or encryption algorithms. Release it to the community for scrutiny and testing. One, It's the only way we can get ZOS to make changes and two, you say there is no counter? I'm sure the community can find one if you give them the chance. But I get it, you want the community to think for themselves. I think It's just arrogance when you dangle a carrot in front of people, put yourself on a pedistool, and act like, haha look at what I did, bet you can't figure it out.

Anyways, Only class I play and will ever play in this game is magnb. (Unless they release a new class like necromancer or monk). Just sounds like you have an agenda. In one post you won't release a build to better the game but in this post you want to convince ZOS to do something that (surprise surprise) benifits your stam nb. Shrug. It is what it is. If you truly are doing it for lore reasons and you honestly think it makes Bretons better than I stand down and conversation is over and I'm wrong.

Xinthisis

@LegacyDM You do realize that I played magicka nb from 1.1 to 1.6 right? That I reported siphoning attacks not procing on shields and the many things that unintentionally break cloak. I only moved to stam nb after the patch that they said on the pts that siphoning attacks would proc on shields. The fact that it still doesn't proc on shields and how weak melee magicka nb is with the constant snares forces mag nb's to pew pew. If I wanted to play a pew pew class I'd play a mag sorc. You say that dk is single minded, but you only play a mag nb. Kinda ironic, especially since you aren't doing anything special with the class. Literally a carbon copy of every other typical mag nb out there. If you want some mag nb tips, check out KenaPKK on youtube.

If you want some balance talks, check out my previous discussions.

Otherwise, the resounding statement from the forum warriors is to leave Breton alone. So be it. I'll enjoy that broken minor mag steal+alternative resource return+permablock while being able to burst people and heal.

LegacyDM

Xinthisis wrote: »

you say that dk is single minded, but you only play a mag nb. Kinda ironic, especially since you Literally a carbon copy of every other typical mag nb out there. If you want some mag nb tips, check out KenaPKK on youtube.

Really? Carbon copy? You don't know me very well. How many nb you know have theory crafted a build around using the overwhelming surge set, vamp, grothdarr, and necropetence or spinners (duel wield) How many are still duel wielding as a magicka Nb and still holding their own in a stam/eots meta? Carbon copy my ass. Guess what, the Carbon copy will get worse next patch when they buff destro 8% and force/crushing is not reflectable. We can agree that more ZOS stove pipes and limits theory crafting potential the worse the carbon copies become.

Don't need tips from FRIGHT or you. Im already familiar with FRIGHTS 61k build. Lacks sustain but ok build. FRIGHTS a good player no doubt and we've run into each other a few times. Other than I get zerged down or he does. But I can tell you I am far from carbon copy. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever been successfully Ganked by you...could be wrong though...might have been the other way around..

I said I only play magnb, didn't say I don't have a DK. Seriously, Magdk is nothing but petrify, talons, whip/lash, and skoria with maybe grothdarr, bats, or standard. It's not the fault of the players it's just ZOS has really limited the scope of the potential of magdks. As for stam DK, I like your build it is unique. Certainly not singular focus, but 99% of the population run the meta which is.