A Simple and Elegant Solution to VMA's difficulty and loot RNG problems - Make the Loot Tradeable!

Panthorz86

I see so many posts about VMA being too hard and the loot RNG being total crap (the latter of which I have witnessed most cruelly firsthand). I haven't read all of them or even close so forgive me if this has already been suggested. To me there is an obvious straightforward answer that would solve both of these problems (also with very little coding work on your side Zen). Make the loot received from VMA (particularly the Maelstrom weapon) tradeable/sellable.

1.) This would first and foremost alleviate the issue of people not being able to complete VMA and get the best weapons in the game since they could just buy them. Now I've done VMA on seven different characters and personally don't have an issue with this but I can easily see many people struggling with finishing VMA especially if they don't play a class that makes VMA easier (sorc, magic DK/temp). I'm sure many might complain, oh I worked so hard for my Maelstrom weapon and now your just going to let people buy them - to them I would say A.) it's been long enough were VMA weapons were an exclusive club, its time to let the public in and B.) your going to be able to make a good deal of money farming and selling VMA weapons since if you have a weapon you can do the arena and therefore do it again and sell items.

2.) More importantly it would create the opportunity for the prized Sharpened weapons to be circulated for sale and not force us to grind Maelstrom for 500+ *** hours without getting a sniff of the item we want. As has been discussed ad nauseam, the RNG for sharpened weapons is really absurd, something NEEDS to be done about it. I have done Maelstrom over 500 times and have gotten one Sharp dagger and one Sharp Ice staff - that is just wrong. I could have completed a Masters Dissertation in that time, literally... While I wouldn't mind some kind of token trade in system where you could trade in a bunch of bad weapons for the one you wanted (similar to EQ2), changing the Maelstrom weapons to bind on equip would be a far simpler solution for both players and the coders you employ (no farming and having to store weapons). While some won't be selling sharpened weapons I'm sure there are plenty that have everything they want from there and would farm it to sell, or you have people just needing sharp daggers or axes or just needing an inferno staff that would sell other sharpened stuff they got.

3.) With the crazy prizes of houses coming out, this would be a nice way to make money for those end gamers and make some serious spending happen in the ESO economy.

While your at it, might as well make DSA loot (end drop Master weapons) tradeable/sellable as well, as the same logic applies to those weapons as well.

The ONLY con I can see from this is people complaining about working so hard for these and now they're available to everyone, again I say, we've had our time in the sun and its time now to let everyone else in, ESPECIALLY if it will allow for the circulation of the impossible to get sharpened weapons.

So many pro's, so little con's. Let's make this happen ESO community and Zenimax.

~Panthorz
Treehouse Mafia, Xbox1 NA

Pallio

Token system i.e. decon 25 get any item you want....

STEVIL

Panthorz86 wrote: »

I see so many posts about VMA being too hard and the loot RNG being total crap (the latter of which I have witnessed most cruelly firsthand). I haven't read all of them or even close so forgive me if this has already been suggested. To me there is an obvious straightforward answer that would solve both of these problems (also with very little coding work on your side Zen). Make the loot received from VMA (particularly the Maelstrom weapon) tradeable/sellable.

1.) This would first and foremost alleviate the issue of people not being able to complete VMA and get the best weapons in the game since they could just buy them. Now I've done VMA on seven different characters and personally don't have an issue with this but I can easily see many people struggling with finishing VMA especially if they don't play a class that makes VMA easier (sorc, magic DK/temp). I'm sure many might complain, oh I worked so hard for my Maelstrom weapon and now your just going to let people buy them - to them I would say A.) it's been long enough were VMA weapons were an exclusive club, its time to let the public in and B.) your going to be able to make a good deal of money farming and selling VMA weapons since if you have a weapon you can do the arena and therefore do it again and sell items.

2.) More importantly it would create the opportunity for the prized Sharpened weapons to be circulated for sale and not force us to grind Maelstrom for 500+ *** hours without getting a sniff of the item we want. As has been discussed ad nauseam, the RNG for sharpened weapons is really absurd, something NEEDS to be done about it. I have done Maelstrom over 500 times and have gotten one Sharp dagger and one Sharp Ice staff - that is just wrong. I could have completed a Masters Dissertation in that time, literally... While I wouldn't mind some kind of token trade in system where you could trade in a bunch of bad weapons for the one you wanted (similar to EQ2), changing the Maelstrom weapons to bind on equip would be a far simpler solution for both players and the coders you employ (no farming and having to store weapons). While some won't be selling sharpened weapons I'm sure there are plenty that have everything they want from there and would farm it to sell, or you have people just needing sharp daggers or axes or just needing an inferno staff that would sell other sharpened stuff they got.

3.) With the crazy prizes of houses coming out, this would be a nice way to make money for those end gamers and make some serious spending happen in the ESO economy.

While your at it, might as well make DSA loot (end drop Master weapons) tradeable/sellable as well, as the same logic applies to those weapons as well.

The ONLY con I can see from this is people complaining about working so hard for these and now they're available to everyone, again I say, we've had our time in the sun and its time now to let everyone else in, ESPECIALLY if it will allow for the circulation of the impossible to get sharpened weapons.

So many pro's, so little con's. Let's make this happen ESO community and Zenimax.

~Panthorz
Treehouse Mafia, Xbox1 NA

the grind repeat is there to promote replay and initial play. make them sellable and that goes away quite a bit.

fewer will run it but the ones that do will make more money.

frankly, i am NOT a fan of the "elite gear" thing myself but it is an MMo staple and after they just went with major division between BOE and BOP i doubt they will reverse that for these.

Wollust

I don't quite see why someone that can't finish vMSA would need the weapons. It's not some magical weapon that is going to make you go from bad to godlike or whatever.
But I do see the issue of people just being unlucky, which is where a token system would be more appropriate imo.

NewBlacksmurf

I think the whole idea is to only allow players to get items they can actually earn.

I disagree that making any lot from content tradeable is a good idea.

If that, then why even do content. Just let ppl farm it for you and make gold to buy it.

But then what's the point of buying it if you're not doing content?

Brrrofski

Nah, selling is a bad idea.

Token system is the answer. Which we'll never get.

Panthorz86

One more point of order..
You still have the stormproof and flawless conqueror achievement and a dye (I think) to make it worth doing and also to separate the "men from the boys" so to speak.

Panthorz86

and if were not going to get the token system (would require a decent amount of coding) why not argue for something Zen could easily do??

leepalmer95

Panthorz86 wrote: »

and if were not going to get the token system (would require a decent amount of coding) why not argue for something Zen could easily do??

Because then people without the dlc could get access to dlc gear.

VMA and it's drops are why people bought and buy orsinium.

Jimmy

I absolutely hate the token idea. Totally onboard with ZOS on despising that idea. I get it.

I think the best idea I ever heard was leaving everything exactly the way it is now, except if you achieve a flawless run in vMA, you are given a Maelstrom stone that can be used to craft any Maelstrom weapon you would like.

Some_Guy

No

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I've always thought gear-progression in most MMORPGs was backwards anyway.

To get BiS gear you need to clear the hardest content.
If you can clear the hardest content WITHOUT BiS Gear what do you need the BiS Gear for? You've just cleared the hardest content, where else are you going.

That is why a Token System of some sort should be used so that you can earn enough tokens at just below the hardest content, to get the BiS Gear you need to clear the hardest content.

All The Best

Nyteshade

Na.

I'm totally fine with there being a few things in a game that are just super hard to achieve. MMO's are too care bear these days anyway. Thanks ZOS for giving us a few long term challenges.

I think, though, maybe I would support making these somethig like GW2 legendaries, were the trait is selectable since it is a top top top tier weapon.

VinyParsley2016

Too long to read!
It's a fast pace world, but many ppl don't get it. Sad.

Taleof2Cities

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I think the whole idea is to only allow players to get items they can actually earn.

I disagree that making any lot from content tradeable is a good idea.

If that, then why even do content. Just let ppl farm it for you and make gold to buy it.

But then what's the point of buying it if you're not doing content?

^This.^

The reward for Maelstrom weapons should be earned by players achieving the content ...

pizzaow

They are making some changes in update 13:

Adjusted the distribution of Maelstrom weapons obtained from the Maelstrom Arena via the Leaderboards and drops.
* Previously, this was divided evenly by weapon category (Destruction Staff, Two Hand, etc). Now, it is based on the individual item type (Dagger, One Handed Sword, etc), and all damage weapons within the item type have an equal probability to drop.
* In addition, when a Dual Wield weapon is awarded, you will receive two Dual Wield weapons.
* We also slightly reduced the drop chance for Healing Staves, Bows, and One Hand and Shields.

It doesn't look like they changed the trait drops, but we'll see how things all pan out.

I've always liked the idea of key fragments (similar to IC dungeons). There could be a trophy room containing either a chest with better RNG, or a chest for a certain type of weapon (e.g. Fire Staff, Dual Wield, 2 Handed...). Another (potential) advantage is that it could open up the door to obtaining Malestrom weapons by grinding normal mode; you could get a small number of key fragments for normal and much higher amount for vet.

Another idea is "hard-mode" where you read a scroll before the last boss, and you simply get 2 drops (i.e. half the grind).

Soella

BIS gear should be BoP.

Tokens is the best solution to cap grind on reasonable level.

covenant_merchant

ZOS actually said they're adjusting the loot tables for every drop to be fair(as it is live, the distribution is heavily favors restoration staves and bows). So that's all we'll get for now, which is already more than I expected tbh.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Nope nope nope nope!

Sorry OP. If you want VMA gear, you need to be able to clear VMA. If you can't clear VMA, these weapons aren't going to make a bit of difference in your build anyway.

That said, the loot system currently is total garbage. I would not be opposed to them being tradable for other VMA weapons. That would keep them gates behind difficult content. I think a token system for this type of thing is the best solution, however.

You can pull 40k DPS in trials without them and they are being used less and less in PVP. The only people that really need these weapons are people pushing leaderboards in trials, and they can all clear it.

Jaronking

No the only people who should be able to trae VMA are people who has completed VMA.If you have completed VMA and have the title or make it more restrictive and only people with Flawless Conq can trade weapons with other flawless conq.

Danksta

pizzaow wrote: »

They are making some changes in update 13:

Adjusted the distribution of Maelstrom weapons obtained from the Maelstrom Arena via the Leaderboards and drops.
* Previously, this was divided evenly by weapon category (Destruction Staff, Two Hand, etc). Now, it is based on the individual item type (Dagger, One Handed Sword, etc), and all damage weapons within the item type have an equal probability to drop.
* In addition, when a Dual Wield weapon is awarded, you will receive two Dual Wield weapons.
* We also slightly reduced the drop chance for Healing Staves, Bows, and One Hand and Shields.

It doesn't look like they changed the trait drops, but we'll see how things all pan out.

I've always liked the idea of key fragments (similar to IC dungeons). There could be a trophy room containing either a chest with better RNG, or a chest for a certain type of weapon (e.g. Fire Staff, Dual Wield, 2 Handed...). Another (potential) advantage is that it could open up the door to obtaining Malestrom weapons by grinding normal mode; you could get a small number of key fragments for normal and much higher amount for vet.

Another idea is "hard-mode" where you read a scroll before the last boss, and you simply get 2 drops (i.e. half the grind).

If there was going to be a token system, tokens should not drop from nMA. The difficulty between the two are incomparable.

Artis

No let's do token system. 1 token = weapon of your choice. That way everyone will have whatever he wants after clearing vma.

leepalmer95

Artis wrote: »

No let's do token system. 1 token = weapon of your choice. That way everyone will have whatever he wants after clearing vma.

Lets make it a bit harder than that. 1 clear = 1 token

10 token = weapon of your choice in trait of your choice.

GawdSB

VMA is not too hard. Let me tell you I thought I'd never even make it pass stage 4, but now currently I'm on the final boss. All in one day. Know why? Because I got help with my build and watched some videos on tips as long as died 100+ times. It takes practice to get pass VMA but I'm telling you after that practice and many rounds of dying you'll at least be able to beat the rounds up to the final bosses in 5-15 minutes tops.

As for the loot, there does need to be corrections there, because nobody wants to keep running this to keep getting terrible drops.

Reykice

VMA is a skill check. If you can`t do it the weapons will not help you all that much even if you could buy them.

What would help you is perfecting your rotation and movement to be able to do VMA.

Artis

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

No let's do token system. 1 token = weapon of your choice. That way everyone will have whatever he wants after clearing vma.

Lets make it a bit harder than that. 1 clear = 1 token

10 token = weapon of your choice in trait of your choice.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

No let's do token system. 1 token = weapon of your choice. That way everyone will have whatever he wants after clearing vma.

Lets make it a bit harder than that. 1 clear = 1 token

10 token = weapon of your choice in trait of your choice.

Oh yeah, 10 is a reasonable number and changes everything. It won't lead to everyone having weapons within a week. IN a game where dungeons have no cooldowns and can be farmed back to back...

But why? It's harder. We can also put a vendor in cyrodiil who will sell weapons for AP and gold. Oh and also for the next vMA anniversary event, zos can just mail weapons to everyone.

I mean, it's go hard or go home, right? No matter how many tokens you have, very soon EVERYONE in end-game will have those weapons and they won't be any rare. So if that's what you want, why pretend and require 10 tokens?

DRXHarbinger

Panthorz86 wrote: »

and if were not going to get the token system (would require a decent amount of coding) why not argue for something Zen could easily do??

You think coding up a trade requirement based on titles and dyes is easier than making a currency and creating a vendor?

How about you stop grinding for infernos. ....they DO NOT WORK at the moment. Only lit staff heavy attacks are actually doing damage. Hence why they are so op and the vma inferno is just Meh. Get your daggers and gtfo and play other content.

Paneross

Token System

Malamar1229

Some points

-itd liven up the economy
-pve'ers would have a reason to grind vma (how many have stopped when they got what they needed?) Replay content not an issue. BoE would encourage more to play it.
-Would be a high money maker, sharp weapons would still be in demand long road ahead (assuming traits don't change)
-PvPers could fine tune their builds with an odd piece without having to stop what they enjoy playing (pvp) for a BiS item only obtainable in PvE.

Meld777

You're beating a dead horse here.

Either go play a game with fair end-game competition, like Black Desert, or accept the fact that you will never have your BiS weapon while competing with others who got it easily before Dark Brotherhood. The end.

Panthorz86

All these posts keep saying token system; hasn't ZoS said they would not do a token system? Or at least aren't we under the assumption they are never going to do one? I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but at least it's a solution. One with very few drawbacks and many positives.

For those under the mistaken impression that sharpened weapons are just going to start dropping from the heavens and just flood the market everywhere - VMA takes at least 30 minutes and is something you gotta do by yourself (this is a social game mind you), sharp weapons would still be rare and hard to come by and would sell for prob 5 mil + keeping it out of reach for many players still.

I did not, however, see the part in the patch notes about changing the drops in VMA, that might be enough. Then, if dagger or axe drops you will get two of them? Will they be different traits? anyone on test confirm this yet?