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The balance is a wobbling top.
Animus-ESO
✭✭✭✭✭
I feel like some aspects of this balance patch went way differently then I saw coming. There are a few things that could, and should have gone a different way.
The nerf to major evasion -
I hate evasion, passive dodge chance adds an element of RNG to the combat that I don't like. I always enjoyed the combat and pvp in ESO because it takes player skill beyond pushing 1-12 like most MMO's. But at the same time it is apart of the game and I understand that the devs aren't willing to part with something they created. The nerf to major evasion only widened the gap between heavy armor and medium armor. I honestly feel like you should only be able to use shuffle if you are wearing 5 pieces of medium armor. Not only does heavy armor give you superior resistance , but you also get an extra layer of damage mitigation with shuffle, sustainability has never been an issue with the introduction of champion points. This 5% nerf to evasion has only made medium armor almost pointless in comparison to heavy.
Proc set "nerf"-
Congrats ZOS, you managed to *** off PVE and PVP communities at the same time. That is a feat. Crit from procs did indeed hurt, But with the amount of impen most PVPer's wear it was not as big of an issue as stacking proc sets. Viper is a 100% chance proc.. That 4k free damage from just pressing left mouse button, on top of a skills damage, and potentially a monster set proc like tremor scale. That would be around 8-10K damage from one button press. That is not skillful play and only increases RNG elements into combat. ZOS! We do not like RNG in combat to that degree! Please stop trying to force it on us. I think their needs to be a global cool down on proc sets. This would be the only thing that could make stacking proc sets fruitless with out breaking all the sets at the same time.
Sorc's curse nerf-
I really hate sorcs. I Really loathe them with a passion. But I do not think they need a nerf. They were something I enjoyed killing because it was a very strange enemy to attack. With this new echo curse you completely ruined magica sorcs. I think echo curse would be cool and inventive if the echo counted as a different DOT (yes curse is coded as a DOT), That way when the echo curse is applied, the sorc can reapply curse to get two curses to detonate at the same time. This would be a reward for keeping the enemy at bay for 12 seconds and reward the class for skillful play.
Fix these few things and I think the balance patch would be pretty sweet. If I missed anything add it below, I will be happy to discuss anything.
Edited by Animus-ESO on January 5, 2017 10:00PM The nerf to major evasion -
I hate evasion, passive dodge chance adds an element of RNG to the combat that I don't like. I always enjoyed the combat and pvp in ESO because it takes player skill beyond pushing 1-12 like most MMO's. But at the same time it is apart of the game and I understand that the devs aren't willing to part with something they created. The nerf to major evasion only widened the gap between heavy armor and medium armor. I honestly feel like you should only be able to use shuffle if you are wearing 5 pieces of medium armor. Not only does heavy armor give you superior resistance , but you also get an extra layer of damage mitigation with shuffle, sustainability has never been an issue with the introduction of champion points. This 5% nerf to evasion has only made medium armor almost pointless in comparison to heavy.
Proc set "nerf"-
Congrats ZOS, you managed to *** off PVE and PVP communities at the same time. That is a feat. Crit from procs did indeed hurt, But with the amount of impen most PVPer's wear it was not as big of an issue as stacking proc sets. Viper is a 100% chance proc.. That 4k free damage from just pressing left mouse button, on top of a skills damage, and potentially a monster set proc like tremor scale. That would be around 8-10K damage from one button press. That is not skillful play and only increases RNG elements into combat. ZOS! We do not like RNG in combat to that degree! Please stop trying to force it on us. I think their needs to be a global cool down on proc sets. This would be the only thing that could make stacking proc sets fruitless with out breaking all the sets at the same time.
Sorc's curse nerf-
I really hate sorcs. I Really loathe them with a passion. But I do not think they need a nerf. They were something I enjoyed killing because it was a very strange enemy to attack. With this new echo curse you completely ruined magica sorcs. I think echo curse would be cool and inventive if the echo counted as a different DOT (yes curse is coded as a DOT), That way when the echo curse is applied, the sorc can reapply curse to get two curses to detonate at the same time. This would be a reward for keeping the enemy at bay for 12 seconds and reward the class for skillful play.
Fix these few things and I think the balance patch would be pretty sweet. If I missed anything add it below, I will be happy to discuss anything.
Dude Where's My Guar?
5
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LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭You forgot nerf to strife since that was sooo op. Strife is reflectable, dodgeable, blockable, hits like a noodle, and is broken with animation canceling. Yet they seem to think it needs s 38% cost increase. Instead they buffed force pulse and THAT is now not reflectable?! Wtf. They just killed any reason to use strife as opposed to force pulse. I think they want to stove pipe all magicka nbs into using a stave as opposed to duel wield. There is no good reason to use strife over force pulse,Edited by LegacyDM on January 6, 2017 4:29AMLegacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South2 -
riVALry9✭✭✭They have effectively ruined Curse in open world PvP. Templars will never be touched by it and any non-Templar class will easily be able to heal up or otherwise mitigate against it. At best, it will be back-barred but I think many Sorcs will just ditch it all together...Dual wield Sorcs are essentially dead. Honestly, if they felt that curse was too OP (which it most certainly was not, it was our only method of timed burst) I wish they would have just made it blockable again.
Sad Sorc is sad.0 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭You forgot nerf to strife since that was sooo op. Strife is reflectable, dodgeable, blockable, hits like a noodle, and is broken with animation canceling. Yet they seem to think it needs s 38% cost increase. Instead they buffed force pulse and THAT is now not reflectable?! Wtf. They just killed any reason to use strife as opposed to force pulse. I think they want to stove pipe all magicka nbs into using a stave as opposed to duel wield. There is no good reason to use strife over force pulse,
They also increased its damage by 8%, with fire staffs, honestly strife was only 800 magica, the lowest costing single target spam-able DPS skill in the game with a healing mechanic attached to it. This only increased its cost to around 1104, Still the cheapest costing single target dps skill in the game. I dont feel like this was particularly a nerf as much as it was bringing strife to the same level as other skills in its class. If I had it my way, most skills of similars status would cost exactly the same and do the same damage, The only thing that would make the skills different would be the secondary effects the skills have attached to them and the passives that affect it. This would simplify balancing to balancing passives instead of balancing whole skills.Dude Where's My Guar?0 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭They have effectively ruined Curse in open world PvP. Templars will never be touched by it and any non-Templar class will easily be able to heal up or otherwise mitigate against it. At best, it will be back-barred but I think many Sorcs will just ditch it all together...Dual wield Sorcs are essentially dead. Honestly, if they felt that curse was too OP (which it most certainly was not, it was our only method of timed burst) I wish they would have just made it blockable again.
Sad Sorc is sad.
Completely agree, But if they HAVE to change it to echo, I still recommend the changes I suggested.Dude Where's My Guar?0 -
riVALry9✭✭✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »They have effectively ruined Curse in open world PvP. Templars will never be touched by it and any non-Templar class will easily be able to heal up or otherwise mitigate against it. At best, it will be back-barred but I think many Sorcs will just ditch it all together...Dual wield Sorcs are essentially dead. Honestly, if they felt that curse was too OP (which it most certainly was not, it was our only method of timed burst) I wish they would have just made it blockable again.
Sad Sorc is sad.
Completely agree, But if they HAVE to change it to echo, I still recommend the changes I suggested.
I do like that idea as well. I think it would have potential to be a very useful skill both in PVE and PvP without being overpowered.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »You forgot nerf to strife since that was sooo op. Strife is reflectable, dodgeable, blockable, hits like a noodle, and is broken with animation canceling. Yet they seem to think it needs s 38% cost increase. Instead they buffed force pulse and THAT is now not reflectable?! Wtf. They just killed any reason to use strife as opposed to force pulse. I think they want to stove pipe all magicka nbs into using a stave as opposed to duel wield. There is no good reason to use strife over force pulse,
They also increased its damage by 8%, with fire staffs, honestly strife was only 800 magica, the lowest costing single target spam-able DPS skill in the game with a healing mechanic attached to it. This only increased its cost to around 1104, Still the cheapest costing single target dps skill in the game. I dont feel like this was particularly a nerf as much as it was bringing strife to the same level as other skills in its class. If I had it my way, most skills of similars status would cost exactly the same and do the same damage, The only thing that would make the skills different would be the secondary effects the skills have attached to them and the passives that affect it. This would simplify balancing to balancing passives instead of balancing whole skills.
Umm just to let you know, passive from destro staf works only with destro staff skills, tested on PTS.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »I think you meant a Wrobeling top.
Zing bang.I didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.0 -
SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »You forgot nerf to strife since that was sooo op. Strife is reflectable, dodgeable, blockable, hits like a noodle, and is broken with animation canceling. Yet they seem to think it needs s 38% cost increase. Instead they buffed force pulse and THAT is now not reflectable?! Wtf. They just killed any reason to use strife as opposed to force pulse. I think they want to stove pipe all magicka nbs into using a stave as opposed to duel wield. There is no good reason to use strife over force pulse,
They also increased its damage by 8%, with fire staffs, honestly strife was only 800 magica, the lowest costing single target spam-able DPS skill in the game with a healing mechanic attached to it. This only increased its cost to around 1104, Still the cheapest costing single target dps skill in the game. I dont feel like this was particularly a nerf as much as it was bringing strife to the same level as other skills in its class. If I had it my way, most skills of similars status would cost exactly the same and do the same damage, The only thing that would make the skills different would be the secondary effects the skills have attached to them and the passives that affect it. This would simplify balancing to balancing passives instead of balancing whole skills.
Umm just to let you know, passive from destro staf works only with destro staff skills, tested on PTS.
Are you 100% on that?i saw some testing numbers from a templar between dw, inferno and lightning on various templar skill and all produced different resultsPS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
vAA HM ☆ vHRC HM ☆ vSO HM ☆ vMOL
4th Console vMOL clear,
vMA cleared on all classes stam & magic
My TribeEU
High Sparo - Altmer - mSo DD.
Wood Sparo - Bosmer - sNB DD
Nord Sparo - Nord -sDK DD/Tank.
Bubble Girl - Imperial -sTe DD
Succubus Sue - Breton - mNB Tank.
Andrana Stormlock - Altmer - mTe Healer/ DD
Elvali Marvani - Dunmer - mDK DD.
Venemus Draconem - Redguard - sDK DD
Jayri Leki - Redguard - sSo DD.
Miss Jabsalot - Altmer - mTe PvP DD/ Tank
Mireli Hlaano - Dunmer - mNB DD.
Ms Shanks - Redguard - sNB DD/ le bank
NA
Dilemma Dame - Altmer - mDK DD
Stamsorc Kitty - Redguard - sSor DD
Aia Draconis - Imperial - sDK Tank
Decides-Who-Lives - Argonian - mTe Healer
You wont stop me - Altmer - mSo DD
Stab in the dark - Khajiit - sNB DD
Jabjabjab Beambeambeam - Dunmer - mTe DD
Spatium Auxiliarus - Imperial - hTe Tank&bank
Spectre - Altmer - mNB DD
Can't-Main-Tank -Argonian - sDK offTank0 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »You forgot nerf to strife since that was sooo op. Strife is reflectable, dodgeable, blockable, hits like a noodle, and is broken with animation canceling. Yet they seem to think it needs s 38% cost increase. Instead they buffed force pulse and THAT is now not reflectable?! Wtf. They just killed any reason to use strife as opposed to force pulse. I think they want to stove pipe all magicka nbs into using a stave as opposed to duel wield. There is no good reason to use strife over force pulse,
They also increased its damage by 8%, with fire staffs, honestly strife was only 800 magica, the lowest costing single target spam-able DPS skill in the game with a healing mechanic attached to it. This only increased its cost to around 1104, Still the cheapest costing single target dps skill in the game. I dont feel like this was particularly a nerf as much as it was bringing strife to the same level as other skills in its class. If I had it my way, most skills of similars status would cost exactly the same and do the same damage, The only thing that would make the skills different would be the secondary effects the skills have attached to them and the passives that affect it. This would simplify balancing to balancing passives instead of balancing whole skills.
Umm just to let you know, passive from destro staf works only with destro staff skills, tested on PTS.
Ancient Knowledge: This passive ability no longer decreases the cast time of your Destruction Staff Heavy Attacks by 5/10%. Instead, it grants you a bonus as long as you have one Destruction Staff ability slotted. This bonus depends on your staff type:
Flame Staves: Increases your single-target damage dealt by 4/8%.
Frost Staves: Increases the amount of damage you Block by 10/20%, and reduces the cost of Block by 15/30%.
Lightning Staves: Increases your Area of Effect damage dealt by 4/8%.Dude Where's My Guar?2 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »You forgot nerf to strife since that was sooo op. Strife is reflectable, dodgeable, blockable, hits like a noodle, and is broken with animation canceling. Yet they seem to think it needs s 38% cost increase. Instead they buffed force pulse and THAT is now not reflectable?! Wtf. They just killed any reason to use strife as opposed to force pulse. I think they want to stove pipe all magicka nbs into using a stave as opposed to duel wield. There is no good reason to use strife over force pulse,
They also increased its damage by 8%, with fire staffs, honestly strife was only 800 magica, the lowest costing single target spam-able DPS skill in the game with a healing mechanic attached to it. This only increased its cost to around 1104, Still the cheapest costing single target dps skill in the game. I dont feel like this was particularly a nerf as much as it was bringing strife to the same level as other skills in its class. If I had it my way, most skills of similars status would cost exactly the same and do the same damage, The only thing that would make the skills different would be the secondary effects the skills have attached to them and the passives that affect it. This would simplify balancing to balancing passives instead of balancing whole skills.
Like the other guy said. The 8% is for destro only. The only people really using strife are dual wield magicka melee nbs or rangeblades, sap tanks, or the rare resto weaving nb. Destro wielders would weave force pulse instead of strife and with the new buffs to destro there is no reason to use strife at all. either case, as a duel wield rangeblade your not going to be running siphoning attacks because your not really weaving light attacks. I agree with you, if your running siphoning attacks or a resto weaver than this increase doesn't really matter. But for those that like playing a battlecastera, this increase hurts us a lot. I'm a Breton nb with 87 cps in reduce magicka and 100cps in magicka regen and I still run empty on magicka fairly easily if I'm not conservative. Even with the twin blunt passive and sharpened weapons I have to run 3 Jewlry pieces with spell damage just to compete with the dps output of other classes. Even then, I'm still low end on trials, gpdungeon content, and pvp. So while destro wielders get buffs we need to sacrifice dps on our Jewlry in favor of sustain or lose a skill slot by using a 1.5 second siphon cast from the resto staff line.
I think it's easy to look from the outside and say gee 400 point increase isn't that much just deal with it. But until you've actually played the magicka nb dual wield build it really is a big deal. unless the devs have some master future plan in mind for magicka nbs I don't see any good reason for this cost increase. Yes your right the skill has a heal and in pve that's great but in pvp where everyone is dodging, blocking, reflecting, absorbing, and it hits like a noodle it's really not that great of a spell. If they want to increase the costs give us something to compensate. The spell has already been nerfed twice now.Edited by LegacyDM on January 7, 2017 2:39AMLegacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South0 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭A dot completely unaffected by thamaturge. Tested with zero and with 75. Did more damage without any in thamaturge.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.1 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »You forgot nerf to strife since that was sooo op. Strife is reflectable, dodgeable, blockable, hits like a noodle, and is broken with animation canceling. Yet they seem to think it needs s 38% cost increase. Instead they buffed force pulse and THAT is now not reflectable?! Wtf. They just killed any reason to use strife as opposed to force pulse. I think they want to stove pipe all magicka nbs into using a stave as opposed to duel wield. There is no good reason to use strife over force pulse,
They also increased its damage by 8%, with fire staffs, honestly strife was only 800 magica, the lowest costing single target spam-able DPS skill in the game with a healing mechanic attached to it. This only increased its cost to around 1104, Still the cheapest costing single target dps skill in the game. I dont feel like this was particularly a nerf as much as it was bringing strife to the same level as other skills in its class. If I had it my way, most skills of similars status would cost exactly the same and do the same damage, The only thing that would make the skills different would be the secondary effects the skills have attached to them and the passives that affect it. This would simplify balancing to balancing passives instead of balancing whole skills.
Umm just to let you know, passive from destro staf works only with destro staff skills, tested on PTS.
Ancient Knowledge: This passive ability no longer decreases the cast time of your Destruction Staff Heavy Attacks by 5/10%. Instead, it grants you a bonus as long as you have one Destruction Staff ability slotted. This bonus depends on your staff type:
Flame Staves: Increases your single-target damage dealt by 4/8%.
Frost Staves: Increases the amount of damage you Block by 10/20%, and reduces the cost of Block by 15/30%.
Lightning Staves: Increases your Area of Effect damage dealt by 4/8%.
That's nice but not all of us magicka nbs use a stave.
Regardless I haven't tested it on pts yet to see if the damage actually applies to non destro skills but if it does, I'm forced to use a stave to get the 8% increase to strife? In addition, Why would I use strife if I'm using a stave that nets me an 8% increase to force pulse AND is not reflectable AND only costs slightly more AND synergies better with elemental damage sets like iLambris, burning spell weave, succession, silks of sun, or winterborn. The logic baffles me.Edited by LegacyDM on January 7, 2017 2:52AMLegacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »I feel like some aspects of this balance patch went way differently then I saw coming. There are a few things that could, and should have gone a different way.
lol this just reminded me of 1.6.0
