Is AP boosting allowed or is it against the terms of service? Can boosters get in trouble?

speeez

This is the second time I have been beat for my emporer push due to players boosting AP.
(If you aren't familiar, AP boosting is when a player either pays players of another faction or has their friends of another faction purposely die to them in cyrodiil to gain alliance points at a very fast rate).
I have reported the players both of the times yet zenimax hasn't respond to me, which leads me to believe it is allowed in the game.

I read the terms of service and have found that it might fall under these categories:

"You agree not to use any Service to:
- Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;
- Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but are not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [i.e., all text in capitals] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [i.e., posting repetitive text], commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements, posting advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities;"

The first time I was beat by an AP booster, the booster admitted it to me in game via whispers, and I have screenshots, yet zenimax has still not responded.
I've also found threads in regards to this topic that date back to 2014 (reference), yet no solution.

So here I am lead to believe that players will not get punished and/or it is allowed in the game?
Thanks for anyone's input on if they think players will not get in trouble for AP boosting and if they think it is allowed.

Ackwalan

you won't get an answer. ZOS won't discuss something like this.

Rohamad_Ali

They already said its ok . A long time ago . They called it a clever use of game mechanics . I don't agree with it but ZOS does not care about cross faction exploitation . You call someone a bad name , that's different . Expect immediate action .

speeez

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

They already said its ok . A long time ago . They called it a clever use of game mechanics . I don't agree with it but ZOS does not care about cross faction exploitation . You call someone a bad name , that's different . Expect immediate action .

awesome okay thank you for your response. now i know and very much appreciate it

Vaoh

Surprising answer. Ty for the insight. I feel even less inclined to PvP now than before -_- @Rohamad_Ali

Rohamad_Ali

speeez wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

They already said its ok . A long time ago . They called it a clever use of game mechanics . I don't agree with it but ZOS does not care about cross faction exploitation . You call someone a bad name , that's different . Expect immediate action .

awesome okay thank you for your response. now i know and very much appreciate it

You are welcome Speez , try not to get too frustrated . I have watched many players work hard to get they're hard work shot down .

IxSTALKERxI

What server?

timidobserver

It's probably against the rules, but you'd have to be doing it in a really stupid, obvious way to get in trouble for it.

zuto40

Hmm a post from speeez, is this a joke thread? or a serious thread? brb getting a coin to decide

kadar

AP Boosting is severely toxic to the game. It is for this reason many players will never even attempt to get Emp.

To ZOS: Everyone knows how to do this at this point. Anyone who has tried, or thought about trying to push for Emp is familiar with boosting, so staying silent and hoping no one will find out will not help. If anything, your silence allows certain players to not only exploit mechanics to get Emp-- but actually grief other players by preventing them from taking 1st place (assuming a player is trying to get Emp through legitimate means, it is impossible to out pace a player casually boosting AP off their friends). A certain known booster on a certain campaign came out in zone saying that he didn't care to get Emp and only wanted to hold first place so that other players couldn't get it.

You have to start taking action against these players. We have proof. It's extremely demoralizing to be beat out by players who are cheating in this way. This is another instance of your weak policy on cheating/exploits allowing the game to fester and grow toxic.

Lord_Hev

The_Outsider wrote: »

AP Boosting is severely toxic to the game. It is for this reason many players will never even attempt to get Emp.

To ZOS: Everyone knows how to do this at this point. Anyone who has tried, or thought about trying to push for Emp is familiar with boosting, so staying silent and hoping no one will find out will not help. If anything, your silence allows certain players to not only exploit mechanics to get Emp-- but actually grief other players by preventing them from taking 1st place (assuming a player is trying to get Emp through legitimate means, it is impossible to out pace a player casually boosting AP off their friends). A certain known booster on a certain campaign came out in zone saying that he didn't care to get Emp and only wanted to hold first place so that other players couldn't get it.

You have to start taking action against these players. We have proof. It's extremely demoralizing to be beat out by players who are cheating in this way. This is another instance of your weak policy on cheating/exploits allowing the game to fester and grow toxic.

Interesting. I also heard this certain player was doing it to stop two other players whom have been caught -also- boosting AP. So the player in question actually out-boosted them. That's just another form of competitive pvp and campaign politics. Perhaps the losers should be careful who's side they choose in the great big game of conquering the Ruby Throne?

IxSTALKERxI

I've never come across or had to compete with someone who is boosting before. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I think there is only a very small amount of individuals who do it, so I don't see why Zos doesn't just punish them for it and use them to set an example.

KisoValley

Lol

Jaybe_Mawfaka

literally it's against the rules but nobody gives a *** because it affects only pvp - deal with it

sirston

TBH when I played; me and a couple of buddies would take a resource that we knew a larger number of enemies were at and just poked at them until they came.

being a MagDK and having 2 sorcs and nightblade was a good combo from farming AP. just let them try to run through the front of the resource and talon spam until everyone was stuck and have caltrops for stealthers and drop destro ults till no tomorrow. 20k AP every 20mins for a good day.

Publius_Scipio

Someone or some people are actively trying to subvert speez and his beard. I will personally investigate this matter and swiftly bring those found to be responsible to justice.

kadar

Lord_Hev wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

AP Boosting is severely toxic to the game. It is for this reason many players will never even attempt to get Emp.

To ZOS: Everyone knows how to do this at this point. Anyone who has tried, or thought about trying to push for Emp is familiar with boosting, so staying silent and hoping no one will find out will not help. If anything, your silence allows certain players to not only exploit mechanics to get Emp-- but actually grief other players by preventing them from taking 1st place (assuming a player is trying to get Emp through legitimate means, it is impossible to out pace a player casually boosting AP off their friends). A certain known booster on a certain campaign came out in zone saying that he didn't care to get Emp and only wanted to hold first place so that other players couldn't get it.

You have to start taking action against these players. We have proof. It's extremely demoralizing to be beat out by players who are cheating in this way. This is another instance of your weak policy on cheating/exploits allowing the game to fester and grow toxic.

Interesting. I also heard this certain player was doing it to stop two other players whom have been caught -also- boosting AP. So the player in question actually out-boosted them. That's just another form of competitive pvp and campaign politics. Perhaps the losers should be careful who's side they choose in the great big game of conquering the Ruby Throne?

Regardless of why said player was griefing the others pushing for Emp, boosting only further degrades Cyrodiil into a cesspool of cheating and exploits. Surely we can see that. Said player may have kept other boosters from getting Emp (as if that's a noble goal, lol), but he also kept every other player PVP-ing legitimately from even bothering to try.

We all know that boosting is not how Emperors were meant to be crowned. By continuing to do so, we're eroding what little structure Cyrodiil has left (cause I doubt ZOS will ever step in), and perpetuating the belief (that, yes, ZOS allows to exist) that exploiting is okay.

I love PVP in this game (and I'm sure you do too), and hate seeing the race for Emperor turned into a game of cheat or lose. AP boosting is detrimental, regardless of intentions.

Arthg

ZOS's policy consists in turning a blind eye on the crime (exploits, cheats, rule-bending), and cracking down on the whistle-blowers.

Publius_Scipio

Well if this is the case, let us all band together and boost Speez and his beard to emp. Of course I can't help out because I have one character.

mvffins

ZOS should find something else besides AP to determine Emperor, or add large goal for players to shoot for in PvP. When people noticed that you will later be able to get AP from getting quests almost everyone looked at it as a way to farm Emperorship, not another way to obtain AP to spend on items.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

This and plenty of other exploits have been a problem in PvP for ages.

I hope ZOS knows we can feel their indifference and neglect. It feels bad man.

You can break any rule you want in PvP, just don't get angry and call someone a naughty word.

Also don't gap close up terrain during that one month where they cared about it. Other than that, exploit everything early and often.

The only thing that matters anymore seems to be the crown store.

Soul_Demon

speeez wrote: »

This is the second time I have been beat for my emporer push due to players boosting AP.
(If you aren't familiar, AP boosting is when a player either pays players of another faction or has their friends of another faction purposely die to them in cyrodiil to gain alliance points at a very fast rate).
I have reported the players both of the times yet zenimax hasn't respond to me, which leads me to believe it is allowed in the game.

I read the terms of service and have found that it might fall under these categories:

"You agree not to use any Service to:
- Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;
- Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but are not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [i.e., all text in capitals] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [i.e., posting repetitive text], commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements, posting advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities;"

The first time I was beat by an AP booster, the booster admitted it to me in game via whispers, and I have screenshots, yet zenimax has still not responded.
I've also found threads in regards to this topic that date back to 2014 (reference), yet no solution.

So here I am lead to believe that players will not get punished and/or it is allowed in the game?
Thanks for anyone's input on if they think players will not get in trouble for AP boosting and if they think it is allowed.

For me its obviously against the TOS and the portions you put up touch on it pretty well. But the part of the TOS to me it seems to violate more than any other is

"You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services."

Use of the services would include achievements in game that were gained through other than designed ways- boosting for Emp.

The Emp spot in Cyro appears to me to be designed for people who play the PvP in game and support the overall war effort. AP is gained through fighting and taking keeps, defense of keeps, including all resources and cities on the map that provide strategic importance to the alliance. Doing this players spend AP to buy siege, repair and bolster defense and are actively engaged in the environment providing a healthy game for others to compete and enjoy themselves in. Overall the impact is in support of the players and the game ensuring PvP remains robust and competitive with rewards for doing so. Not unlike Trials or Dungeons, just a different aspect of the game.

Boosters gain a huge and unfair "advantage over other players in the use of the services" by purposely gaining in game achievements in a way that is not only against the TOS, but against the spirit of PvP and how it was designed. In my eyes the game was clearly meant to be played actively in order to gain that achievement.

Right now, boosters simply join a trade guild with 400 members, making sure they are multi-faction and immediately coordinate the guild to 'help' them gain the achievement. None of them ever have to be actively engaged in the PvP of the game at any time other than for this one achievement.

Log into your DC char- ask guild to bring in all their AD and EP chars, name the campaign. Proceed to the nearest resource your DC char can get to that is DC owned- ask the (for argument sake say only 80 players showed up from 400 to 'help') players in your trading guild to then go to said resource and stand under the oil you are pouring from the tower you own- of course you are on backside of tower to prevent it from flipping and to ensure you receive the massive AP tick. Rinse- repeat until you lead the alliance in AP (maybe 30 mins) Since only you and the 'helpers' know where this will happen and when- the advantage gained is obvious and extraordinary over other players.

Wait for someone who can and knows how to turn map for emperorship- bam- you got it. Good job. If someone passes you, takes 15 mins to outpace them by repeating action and then leave. Don't need to play PvP or even be online, don't need to work for it beyond the advantage joining the multi faction trading guild.

This to me does not support the game or players.....as a matter of fact it seems to me that this is going directly against what was designed into the game to improve and make for a healthy and active PvP environment for the long haul keeping players active and more importantly the subscriptions active in game. I think the more the game is played in the way it is apparent that it was designed to be played, the more money that flows and the healthier the community is as a whole. Players happy, staff paid well for their efforts, shareholders making money, longevity of community looked after....win, win, win.

We are currently playing the alternate version of this where players in the game do the above. Unless Zeni wants to comment publicly with an 'official' statement on boosting for in game achievements and if they endorse this activity or decry it as violation of TOS.

kadar

I'd love to get an official statement on AP boosting specifically from ZOS. Any chance for that @ZOS_GinaBruno ? I don't really know the correct party to tag...

Personally I won't do it. I'll discourage my friends and guild mates from doing it. I'll report anyone I can get proof of doing it (not that I think anything will happen). Sadly I've heard of guilds and groups of players promising to boost a person into the emperor position for gold or for favors or just to show they can. It's only going to get worse...

gibous

Speeez, if you can't get it honorably due to the boosters, I'm pretty sure you could beat them at their own game. You run a funny-as-hell stream and I'm sure the viewers would hop on and boost that beard like @Publius_Scipio said.

ThePonzzz

Farming frenemies are always happening pretty often. But because of how the combat tracking will show up after a few kills, they are mostly done in delves (so you won't see them pop up on the map). A few months ago, I can confirm I saw this going on in both Bloodmayne Cave and Newt Cave. It was 2 AD players farming DC players. One DC person would rez everyone while 3 or 4 DC players would just put up a small fight and die. I only stumbled upon it when I was looking to refresh my Blessings of War and just so happen to be in the area. Saw it first in Bloodmayne, second time was when the campaign reset in Newt. Both times though, the person in question didn't make Emp. But they likely made the top 2% for gold gear. To me, that seems like an exploit.

Danksta

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

This and plenty of other exploits have been a problem in PvP for ages.

I hope ZOS knows we can feel their indifference and neglect. It feels bad man.

You can break any rule you want in PvP, just don't get angry and call someone a naughty word.

Also don't gap close up terrain during that one month where they cared about it. Other than that, exploit everything early and often.

The only thing that matters anymore seems to be the crown store.

Funny thing is when the whole gap closing into keeps thing was going on there was a outcry that people were getting permabans without warning. Their response was something along the lines of: If it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

How does boosting for emp feel right?

Chuga_Rei

I was wondering why I was asked about this in game, now it all makes sense. God I suck at this video games politics thing.

NBrookus

I sympathize with the OP. But is a single person AP boosting any worse than a certain guild swapping emp every day for 2 weeks on Haderus? Or that fact that repairing walls is a better source of AP gains than playing the map?

The reality is getting emp is more about politics and knowing how to maximize AP gains than it is being good for your faction. To a certain extent I'm okay with this -- Emperor is a political position; playing game politics to get it is realistic.

But if you are looking for a game that rewards integrity and skillful PvP, that ship has sailed.

Meilinka

Aww Speeez

I hope you can get Emp.

Unfortunately it seems pretty common...There's a bloody stupid amount of politics for something like this in a game. I'd say other things but I don't want a time out. You're welcome to PM me any time in game though if you want to have a chin wag.

speeez

I can happily say I've gotten emp on haderus since I've created this thread, but it still doesn't change my stance on this issue. It completely RUINS the whole idea and purpose behind achieving emperor. You people have said it best in the responses above and I couldn't agree more with each and every one of you. I understand that its difficult to find a solution to AP boosting but it's also lame AF that its still a thing in the game.

Meilinka

@Speeez I'm happy to hear that you've gotten Emp! Congratulations! Be sure to put that throne in your house!

I'm sure you saw the screenshots Sypher posted, the ones I took, of the DC that were very clearly boosting someone's AP in TF. I'm sure that happens at other resources/flagged areas in other campaigns as well. It's a damn shame.