Making zone drop gear craftable.

carljokl

I wonder if there is much point in duplicating the same set crafting stations in each alliance since One Tamriel allows any player of any level visit any alliance zone.

This could be an opportunity to swap some of them over to craft the new zone specific sets for that zone.

It seems the plethora of dropped sets in One Tamriel is kind of devaluing crafting. It takes a lot of effort and sometimes cost to learn the traits an motifs. One Tamriel introduced only new dropped sets. It would be good to get more use out of the learned skills and motifs if some of these were also craftable.

I understand the Dungeon ones not being craftable but zone ones would be ok surely?

azfardajiwang

No

carljokl

azfardajiwang wrote: »

No

No further justification as to why you oppose the idea. I have learned from past experience that the usual position of players is opposing change.

Prior to One Tamriel, other alliance zones could only be accessed when a player reached level 50 or completed the main story line. Duplicating the same crafting stations across all three zones made sense for that reason. Now it is a bit redundant.

The New Life Festival had players jumping around all over Tamriel in order to complete quests. I guess there will be the hardcore alliance loyalists who don't like to venture outside of their alliance zone.

Katahdin

I would be fine with allowing us to change the style of a dropped set to any style we have learned. This would give crafting back some of its relevance.

I'm on the fence about being able to craft dropped sets. I think the rarity of weapons in certain traits is intended. Being able to craft would negate that.

carljokl

Katahdin wrote: »

I would be fine with allowing us to change the style of a dropped set to any style we have learned. This would give crafting back some of its relevance.

I'm on the fence about being able to craft dropped sets. I think the rarity of weapons in certain traits is intended. Being able to craft would negate that.

For that reason I propose just the zone dropped sets and not the dungeon sets. Dropped vs Craftable doesn't have to be a mutually exclusive thing. It just seems like there have been a ton of new dropped sets added but nothing new on the craftable side. There are already so many sets now that I have a difficult time keeping up with them all. For that reason I don't really want yet more sets added just to even the crafted vs dropped range a bit.

carljokl

That said I doubt Zenomax is going to implement something just because I suggested in on the forums.

Nestor

Not sure if I want to see Crafting of dropped sets as this just really asking for a way easily obtain set items with Preferred Traits. In other words all effort getting the preferred dropped set.items is eliminated. Contrary to what some think removing effort to gain something does not make for a better game.

Instead I would.like to see both an improvement to existing crafted.sets and more new crafted sets added to the game..

nCats

Nestor wrote: »

Not sure if I want to see Crafting of dropped sets as this just really asking for a way easily obtain set items with Preferred Traits. In other words all effort getting the preferred dropped set.items is eliminated. Contrary to what some think removing effort to gain something does not make for a better game.

Instead I would.like to see both an improvement to existing crafted.sets and more new crafted sets added to the game..

The Update 13 PTS seems to promise a lot of facilitation in obtaining overland sets (alliance point bags), so the first motivation may become much less of a thing in future. Even now, the purple jewellery for the expensive sets like Spinner's goes for 30k a piece or less.

Also note that crafting overland would mean making it in different armour weights, which could potentially change quite a few things.

One thing for sure, is that we need `` an improvement to existing crafted.sets and more new crafted sets added to the game..'' I am actually not too pessimistic about that --- some of the DLC craft-sets are really good (Alchemist). My conjecture is that they have changed their attitude to new set-making in general, so whenever we get a new territory, chances for a good craft-set are just as good as for a good overland-set.

carljokl

Dropped vs Crafted doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

There isn't really skill involved in collecting things from random drops. It is just pure luck and chance. It is suggested it would make the game less satisfying. Grinding over and over until you get what you want can be tedious to some. It is all good and well complaining that it removes the challenge if players can get gear with the traits they want. That is the reason players spent long periods of time researching traits.

If you took the challenge of grinding for the right trait to the extreme then would the game be more satisfying if nothing could be crafted? You can get dropped get with the right trait eventually by grinding but you cannot control the motif that way. The motifs of dropped items is fixed as far as I am aware.

STEVIL

@carljokl

While i agree that the 1T drop sets changes significantly impacted the gains v investment of equip crafting in a big negative way and i also want that fixed i dont think drop set crafting is the answer.

First, i think BOTH drop sets and crafted sets have a place. i think they both need to play a major role in the game and even in the end game. if i had my way they would be relatively equal and the "top tier" BIS builds would almost all be "a mix of crafted and drops." and using just one type exclusively would lead to noticeable deficiencies.

Second, drop sets serve a very very useful place with their random trait grind acquisition - they encourage playing content esp repeatedly. but we should not be at a place where just grinding can produce fully capable top end functional sets IMo and we are there now.

Third, Crafting requires an investment in skill points. That has to be respected and has to be rewarded and IMo "quicker" isn't enough.

So, what i would like to see is (among other things) crafted equipment get a functionally UNIQUE end-product.

Right now (outside of vendors) you can ONLY GET THRU DROP/REWARD SETS the following:
2pc monster sets
3pc jewelry/wpn sets
1-2pc maelstrom/master weapon sets
Any jewelry at all even non-sets

Right now you can get (outside of vendors) from BOTH crafting and drop sets:
5pcs sets of a variety of flavors, some good some not so hot.

The only feature unique to crafteds is the look, you can control your look only with crafted sets (ignoring costumes, disguises and polymorphs.) but that is cosmetics not function.

Yes, you can get the "traits i want quicker" with crafted but given time you can get the traits you want thru grinding.

So one of the major things i propose is to give crafted equip a 4pc set option.
Easiest starter would be to allow at crafting the crafter to drop one of the 2-3-4 pc bonuses off a crafted set.
Do that and never add a 4pc drop and you have a unique function for crafted equip.
opens a lot of possibilities.

So thats the direction my mind goes when i look at the current picture of crafted v drops and the big picture - give them both functional full game all game unique capabilities and then there will always be a place for both - not just the time saver one and the grind one.

carljokl

I should just re-iterate that I am not advocating making all drop sets craftable. The dungeon reward sets like the monster set make sense as being a reward. I am not making the hard line that making zone sets craftable is the only way to rebalance things. I picked the zone sets because with dungeons, there tends to be a level of skill or need for cooperation / grouping to get the rewards. For a zone set, with all zones scaled with 1 Tamriel there isn't any particular skill required to survive a zone (except maybe Craglorn). Zone drop sets really do just seem like the reward of grinding. That said I don't actually use any of the zone sets myself. The only drop pieces I use are all from dungeons. The zone set would have to be really good before I would want to spend time grinding for the right pieces. I would rather just craft something.

carljokl

Dungeons have a whole package of rewards: Skillpoints for first completion, significant XP, Soulgems for each boss, potential for undaunted keys etc.

Zones have Skillpoints for completing the main alliance quest. There is the sense of progression the first time through. Going back and replaying them usually involves delves and dolmens. The addition of the Fighters and Mages Guild dailies added some benefit to potentially re-visiting already completed delves and dolmens.

Grinding dungeons for gear has been a thing for quite a while. Grinding zones is a more recent phenomenon.

Still, in the end it probably isn't going to change for the foreseeable future. All the momentum is around housing now.

Techkey1

Me personally I kind of agree with a lot of what you said and some of what STEVIL said you both make good points. But to stick to what you were saying, I believe that they (Zenimax) should make crafting more enjoyable again. Not necessarily by being able to craft zone sets (and I know you don't mean all of them), but more so by using the current crafting hubs/stations to add more unique sets to them. And by adding tiers for people who truly like crafting. All of this would mean that one would have to definitely grind (of course) to get the needed material and also grind to get to that leveled tier of crafting to make said sets.

Imagine that you go to a crafting station and now there are two more (3 total) different crafting sets you can make, and tier one you can make if you have learned 5 traits, tier two you can make if you have 9 traits, and tier three you can make if you have learned 13 traits. Now of course all of these will scale accordingly however the higher the tier the more complex, advance, and the more materials you would need to complete the set and the more powerful that set will be.

Now add to that more traits we as players can learn, say 4 more (just as an example) bringing the total to 13, now you have to not only get to the traits but you have to learn them which takes 20 to 30 days of research for each piece. Now some of these traits you should have to grind dungeons to get and some you should have to get as a random dolmen drop, some from special dailies, and last but not least the others from vets for the more elite stuff.

Now the last part to this would be to allow mixed materials to create other materials for crafting making it that much more rewarding, think old school RPG's or minecraft (just not as complex) lol. More like using some bone dust + rubedite + steel to make 5 or 10 Coralites lol (I'm just saying what came to my mind lol but you get the gist). And you might need 50 Coralites to make boots.

I think Zenimax/Bethesda would really benefit from such a system because it would help everyone and keep people busy. It would help the crafters feel great again and needed, it would help trade and pricing, it would help to satisfy the grinders, and it would also prolong the longevity of crafting in general. Learning all those sets would take a long time but it would satisfy and reward the hard work of the people/players that go though the journey of becoming ultimate in their crafting.

Keep in mind that what I just mention would work and benefit all the types of crafting in the game, enchanting, provisioning, potions, crafting sets, and hopefully later jewel crafting with the added jewel of earrings and weapon jewels which would be a set of five by it self

Whether or not something like this/that happens or not is anyone's guess, it would be cool though if they noticed this tread lol thanks for posting so that I had something to look at that interested me, later.

Narvuntien

I would like to be able to just change the style of them at least.

I have to wear all this argonian gear on my Dumner because i wanted to use Mothers sorrow gear.

Bahk

Yeah, I think changing the style of the dropped sets would be amazing. As for crafting them, I don't agree with, I don't really have a justification for that other than the fact they provide a sort of rarity from being dropped. What needs to happen in my opinion is more love provided for the crafted sets. Most of them are now obsolete minus the certain handful.

Narvuntien

I think spriggans and spinners should be craftable.. because they are "boring" but functional.
That should be the realm of crafted sets.
Then dropped sets should be those with interesting effects.

carljokl

I had previously thought about making more than one set craftable at the same station by adding extra tabs on the crafting UI. It could have worked. Now that it has been announced that furniture crafting for housing is going to add extra tabs to crafting stations I think it would add too many tabs. There are special crafting locations with lots of space that could support homing more than one crafting station within the same site though.

I just think how many new dropped sets were introduced in One Tamriel but not one single new craftable set.

Leandor

The BoE zone sets are a huge part for the ingame economy. Having them be craftable is a bad idea.

I'd rather have them remove prosperous and training from all drop sets, making those exclusive to crafting and acquiring them for research as a part of a crafting quest that you can start at any time for any piece you want to research.

That would significantly reduce the frustration with set farming, would encourage players to start crafting during levelling phase (where those traits are actually usefull) and not have as big of an impact on ingame economy.

bryanhaas

carljokl wrote: »

I wonder if there is much point in duplicating the same set crafting stations in each alliance since One Tamriel allows any player of any level visit any alliance zone.

This could be an opportunity to swap some of them over to craft the new zone specific sets for that zone.

It seems the plethora of dropped sets in One Tamriel is kind of devaluing crafting. It takes a lot of effort and sometimes cost to learn the traits an motifs. One Tamriel introduced only new dropped sets. It would be good to get more use out of the learned skills and motifs if some of these were also craftable.

I understand the Dungeon ones not being craftable but zone ones would be ok surely?

If you did that you would devalue the sets, most crafters don charge much for crafted sets. I do not consider it for less than 10k per piece however, unless it is a friend.

STEVIL

Leandor wrote: »

The BoE zone sets are a huge part for the ingame economy. Having them be craftable is a bad idea.

I'd rather have them remove prosperous and training from all drop sets, making those exclusive to crafting and acquiring them for research as a part of a crafting quest that you can start at any time for any piece you want to research.

That would significantly reduce the frustration with set farming, would encourage players to start crafting during levelling phase (where those traits are actually usefull) and not have as big of an impact on ingame economy.

IMO removing the "most sucky" traits from drop sets and letting them stay in crafted sets is another big boost to drop sets and another smack to crafted sets and thats a wrong direction.

i would be more inclined to say that *IF* one were to go with the idea of "some traits crafted only" and "some traits drop only" and "some traits both" kind of deal than crafted should get the BiS traits - like sharp/precise/nirn or divines/infused/impen.

Right now the crafted benefits are convenience (quickly get the traits and pieces you want from their limited supply of useful sets) and cosmetic (set the appearance) and a move to weaken that nominal pair of strengths by speeding up the drop trait race is not a direction i would support.

rxhymn

I Think every level you should just be given gear instead of working for it, would please most of the community

carljokl

I recently heard that the Twice Born Star set might be getting nerfed. If this is true that is hardly going to help the dropped set vs crafted.

I love the attitude though:

Spend a year researching 9 traits.
Includes lots of time / cost either finding or buying Nirncrux or completing upper Craglorn quest line.
Optional time / cost collecting motifs.

Result:

Crafting sets is considered the "easy" option for the lazy players.

Dropped sets drop mostly based on random chance. Keep doing the same thing over and over.
One player may get what they want straight away while another has to farm for ages. Total random luck supplemented by the fact that if you keep trying long enough probability dictates that you should get what you want...eventually. No real consistency in how much effort it takes to get gear between players. Skill and proficiency can affect the speed at which farming can be completed but does not impact the reward per se. Some control i.e. normal, veteran and hard mode dungeon differences.

Result:

This is considered 'real work' and properly earning gear. This is what 'real' hardcore players want.

carljokl

This is without considering the time it takes to gather the raw materials, trait stones (albeit these can be bought in some cases) and most particularly the improvement materials. Dropped pieces in dungeons will already be the right level and ready improved to epic for veteran dungeons of superior for normal. All that is left is to improve them to legendary for the best ones.

Still, you get the idea by now.