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Zenimax, when are you going to deal with in-game gold sellers?

Rittings
Rittings
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I have reported many... and I can happily give you the name of the "ring-leader" - but you don't want to hear it. You do nothing. You let your terms of service be stamped on all over... C'mon now... we all know you have some control over ip addresses etc... start dropping the ban-hammer on these cheats that are exploiting your game.
  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    And still the same PSN has plagued chat for the last few days - and we all know who the alt account belongs to... but yet ZoS sit back and plan their next DLC/Crown Store ripoff... Do you even care about your customers?? I doubt it... Get off your bums and start to act - or else you're going to let this game become so corrupt your customers will just lose their loyalty.
  • lordrichter
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    Does it violate the PSN ToS? You can also report to them. The line between ZOS and Sony responsibility seems blurred, at times.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 311, so far!

  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    Does it violate the PSN ToS? You can also report to them. The line between ZOS and Sony responsibility seems blurred, at times.

    It does, and I have... Not only that, if they are American and not filing this income on their tax forms, they are committing a federal offense... one which, I'm sure Zenimax will be responsible for if they fail to take action also.
  • outsideworld76
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    Who cares? The question should be what are they going to do about the lag.
  • Eleusian
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    Who cares about gold sellers. Zos should give them their own channel so they stop clogging zone chat.
    PS4 NA
  • will_rob87
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    Why does it annoy you?
  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    will_rob87 wrote: »
    Why does it annoy you?

    It ruins the economy for one... secondly, they are avoiding federal income tax and I'm having to cover their backsides in REAL LIFE... the question really should be... WHY DOESN'T IT BOTHER YOU???

    It's a federal crime!!
  • will_rob87
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    Who's economy does it ruin? The eso economy or the real economy, and how? If anything, it is taking money from those with more money than sense, and giving it to people who needs it. Surely that balances the economy a little bit.
    Also, how do you know they are not declaring it as income? Do paper boys declare their income? Prehaps you could go after them next?

    And...i never said it didn't annoy me, I'm just wondering why it annoys you so much
    Edited by will_rob87 on January 8, 2017 12:48AM
  • DUTCH_REAPER
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    You can buy gold from people? I'm on pc and never saw this happen or heard of it. Ignorance on me I reckon
    EP
    Vae-Victis Jr Officer

    The real enemy is lag



  • will_rob87
    will_rob87
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    According to the OP it happens, though I've never seen it on EU PS4 so I'm trying to understand the problem. I don't really know the TOS so I don't know how naughty it is, but it hasn't effected me directly so I'm not overly bothered by it
  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    will_rob87 wrote: »
    According to the OP it happens, though I've never seen it on EU PS4 so I'm trying to understand the problem. I don't really know the TOS so I don't know how naughty it is, but it hasn't effected me directly so I'm not overly bothered by it

    If you've never seen it, then why on earth are you commenting? You may not have seen it on the EU server because it isn't as busy there. But on the NA server we are blighted by their constant demand to visit two very prolific websites that sell MMO gold.

    This breaks ZoS Terms of Service, and it breaks Sony's own Terms of Service.

    How does it ruin the economy etc? I'll tell you how...

    They (the gold farmers) have about 10 playstations set up and running at the same time. Rubberbanded controllers farming for leather scraps. They gather those scraps (and subsequently Dreugh Wax) 10x faster than any other online. They also never sleep... so you could feasibly argue they can gather Dreugh Wax 30-50x more than your 8 hour per day gamer (which is hardcore).

    So... the player that spends 8 hours per day farming for those gold mats to try and sell, is basically being blown away by the duchebags cheating. It might take me an hour or more to get that dreugh wax and so I figure an hour of my time is worth at least 10-20k... but thanks to cheating farmers, they've cheapened my labour to a quarter of what I could expect because they are flooding the market with their ill-gotten gains.

    This is why bot-farming (which is what it is) is against Zenimax's terms too.

    Clear enough for you?
  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    Not only that... they cheapen the value of gold in-game by selling it for real money. Meaning, this game is no longer F2P and is suddenly P2P - despite the game blueprint laid out by Zenimax. Which means, the richer you are in real life - the easier the game became for you. Which really goes against gamer ethos, doesn't it?

    All I want, is a level playing field. If I put the effort in, I want the reward. I don't want to see some rich kid come flying in and gloating in my face about having everything the game has to offer without minimal effort. Its a major turnoff for ANY gamer.
  • DUTCH_REAPER
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    how does rubber banding a controller farm? Genuinely curious. As I said I have been ignorant to this so if I see something like this happening I can be aware.

    Cheers
    EP
    Vae-Victis Jr Officer

    The real enemy is lag



  • Ashtaris
    Ashtaris
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    During the early days of ESO, the in-game gold sellers and their bots were a plague throughout the game. They ruined it enough that it caused ZOS to implement strict anti-bot measures that now contributes to some of the lag and other issues we see in the game, especially in Cyrodiil. The only thing gold sellers deserve is a permaban.
    Edited by Ashtaris on January 8, 2017 4:55AM
  • FriedEggSandwich
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    It doesn't necessarily ruin the economy, although it can contribute. Not having enough gold sinks will have more of an effect on the economy. NPCs "print" money (gold), money changes hands between players when items are bought from players, and then money is deleted when you spend it on something from the game, like a mount, house or armour repairs. Players stockpiling money will have the biggest effect on the market because people will then pay what they can afford, so to combat this the game needs more ways to delete money (gold sinks). I doubt players buy gold with real money just to stockpile that gold, it will either get deleted or change hands between players, but eventually it will be deleted.

    Player housing is the biggest gold sink we've seen in game by a long stretch, so hopefully it will be therapeutic for the economy.

    In game gold sellers are a console exclusive, we used to have them on pc at launch but something happened to make them disappear. I suggest you ignore them and carry on with your day. A friend of mine was recently banned from the forums for naming and shaming a bot, so be careful how loud you shout and don't be tempted to do that.

    Regarding the tax avoidance issue; you have no way of knowing what country they're operating from, so don't worry about it, you have drug dealers on your street irl.
    Edited by FriedEggSandwich on January 8, 2017 5:07AM
    PC | EU
  • will_rob87
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    Rubber banding is not botting though. Its just playing the game in a very mundane and boring way. If this is cheating, then I could say that it is cheating when somebody spends 12 hours a day running a dungeon 4 gear when I only have an hour a day to play. Rubber banding might be unethical, but its not cheating. I agree that the spamming of voice chat is a problem though. Why don't you turn off the on screen messaging? Not ideal, but a work around until a better solution is found

    Theres no need to get snappy with me. Im not justifying/supporting this activity, Im just commenting because I haven't seen it happen and I'm genuinely curious as to why it bothers you so much. Is being curious also against the TOS?
  • Pandorii
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    how does rubber banding a controller farm? Genuinely curious. As I said I have been ignorant to this so if I see something like this happening I can be aware.

    Cheers

    From what I understand, if you have 12 people in a group, only one needs to kill the enemy for loot to drop for them all. So imagine getting 12 leathers instead of 1 by running 11 other accounts at the same time with rubber bands on the loot button.

    Alternatively, this also allows for 24/7 grinding by having different members of the group take turns while the others sleep or w/e.
    Edited by Pandorii on January 8, 2017 5:29AM
    PS4 NA Gamertag: MsPandorii
  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    will_rob87 wrote: »
    Rubber banding is not botting though. Its just playing the game in a very mundane and boring way. If this is cheating, then I could say that it is cheating when somebody spends 12 hours a day running a dungeon 4 gear when I only have an hour a day to play. Rubber banding might be unethical, but its not cheating. I agree that the spamming of voice chat is a problem though. Why don't you turn off the on screen messaging? Not ideal, but a work around until a better solution is found

    Theres no need to get snappy with me. Im not justifying/supporting this activity, Im just commenting because I haven't seen it happen and I'm genuinely curious as to why it bothers you so much. Is being curious also against the TOS?

    Rubberbanding IS botting... the definition of a robot is an automaton ... when you have your controller AUTOMATICALLY attacking something, it's the very definition of a robot... thus... it IS botting.
  • RoyalPink06
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    I've noticed them a lot more recently and it makes me so mad. Whenever I see them i report them all and also submit video. When I check back, usually they are gone. Its a fruitless effort though...I'm sure for every bot reported and banned, 10 more pop up somewhere else. Still, if I see them but ignore them, I become part of the problem.

    I heard a rumor that they are actually Chinese. Someone told me that they used Google translate to talk to one once. Another guy told me that they are Chinese child slaves. Not sure how much truth there is to the last one.

    At any rate, they are a problem and it seems to be getting worse. ZOS really needs to get on that.
    NA PS4
  • susmitds
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    I heard a rumor that they are actually Chinese. Someone told me that they used Google translate to talk to one once. Another guy told me that they are Chinese child slaves. Not sure how much truth there is to the last one.

    LOL
  • will_rob87
    will_rob87
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    Rittings wrote: »
    will_rob87 wrote: »
    Rubber banding is not botting though. Its just playing the game in a very mundane and boring way. If this is cheating, then I could say that it is cheating when somebody spends 12 hours a day running a dungeon 4 gear when I only have an hour a day to play. Rubber banding might be unethical, but its not cheating. I agree that the spamming of voice chat is a problem though. Why don't you turn off the on screen messaging? Not ideal, but a work around until a better solution is found

    Theres no need to get snappy with me. Im not justifying/supporting this activity, Im just commenting because I haven't seen it happen and I'm genuinely curious as to why it bothers you so much. Is being curious also against the TOS?

    Rubberbanding IS botting... the definition of a robot is an automaton ... when you have your controller AUTOMATICALLY attacking something, it's the very definition of a robot... thus... it IS botting.

    Agree to disagree.

    How though, would you prove that they have rubber banded the controller? Its equally possible that they are just holding the controller while they watch another channel on their tv.

    This is slightly off topic though because your original complaint is about them selling gold and we haven't really got to the bottom of why it annoys you. Now i don't know the TOS very well so could you tell where it is stated in them that gold selling is bad. From a moral and ethical stand point, I agree that it is bad, but is it actually banned?
  • Pandorii
    Pandorii
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    will_rob87 wrote: »
    Rittings wrote: »
    will_rob87 wrote: »
    Rubber banding is not botting though. Its just playing the game in a very mundane and boring way. If this is cheating, then I could say that it is cheating when somebody spends 12 hours a day running a dungeon 4 gear when I only have an hour a day to play. Rubber banding might be unethical, but its not cheating. I agree that the spamming of voice chat is a problem though. Why don't you turn off the on screen messaging? Not ideal, but a work around until a better solution is found

    Theres no need to get snappy with me. Im not justifying/supporting this activity, Im just commenting because I haven't seen it happen and I'm genuinely curious as to why it bothers you so much. Is being curious also against the TOS?

    Rubberbanding IS botting... the definition of a robot is an automaton ... when you have your controller AUTOMATICALLY attacking something, it's the very definition of a robot... thus... it IS botting.

    Agree to disagree.

    How though, would you prove that they have rubber banded the controller? Its equally possible that they are just holding the controller while they watch another channel on their tv.

    This is slightly off topic though because your original complaint is about them selling gold and we haven't really got to the bottom of why it annoys you. Now i don't know the TOS very well so could you tell where it is stated in them that gold selling is bad. From a moral and ethical stand point, I agree that it is bad, but is it actually banned?

    Gold selling is a bannable offense and against the ToS. I knew somebody who did it when I first started playing long ago. He was just a regular player who realized that he could turn a profit from his proficiency in farming. He would recruit new players, level them up quickly, and invite them into his farming team. It wasn't an organization. He was just an average joe. Well, he had a fight with one of his teammates, who ended up reported him, and his account was banned (all 700 CP back when that was a lot) for gold selling. Eventually, he started a new account, I believe. Don't know if he is around today though.

    The gold sellers on PS4 NA seem like an organization to me.
    PS4 NA Gamertag: MsPandorii
  • will_rob87
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    What is the wording in the TOS that make it a banable offense? Just wondering why Zenimax aren't taking action if its a banable offense. Laziness perhaps?
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    It will never stop
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
    No matter how well you played,when the game is over,the king and pawn go back in the same box.
    Be careful what you ask for from zo$, you always get punished.
    Call me toxic,your the one being slowly poisoned by greed.
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
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    .
    Edited by lordrichter on January 9, 2017 12:37AM
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 311, so far!

  • Rittings
    Rittings
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    will_rob87 wrote: »
    Rittings wrote: »
    will_rob87 wrote: »
    Rubber banding is not botting though. Its just playing the game in a very mundane and boring way. If this is cheating, then I could say that it is cheating when somebody spends 12 hours a day running a dungeon 4 gear when I only have an hour a day to play. Rubber banding might be unethical, but its not cheating. I agree that the spamming of voice chat is a problem though. Why don't you turn off the on screen messaging? Not ideal, but a work around until a better solution is found

    Theres no need to get snappy with me. Im not justifying/supporting this activity, Im just commenting because I haven't seen it happen and I'm genuinely curious as to why it bothers you so much. Is being curious also against the TOS?

    Rubberbanding IS botting... the definition of a robot is an automaton ... when you have your controller AUTOMATICALLY attacking something, it's the very definition of a robot... thus... it IS botting.

    Agree to disagree.

    How though, would you prove that they have rubber banded the controller? Its equally possible that they are just holding the controller while they watch another channel on their tv.

    This is slightly off topic though because your original complaint is about them selling gold and we haven't really got to the bottom of why it annoys you. Now i don't know the TOS very well so could you tell where it is stated in them that gold selling is bad. From a moral and ethical stand point, I agree that it is bad, but is it actually banned?

    The bot farming is connected to the gold sellers... they are the funding behind the illegalities...

    I'd say the moment a player has been online holding R2 down for 48 hours non-stop would most certainly indicate a rubberbanded controller... unless you think they aren't sleeping? I think we BOTH know what is going on, you're just playing devil's advocate for some self-gratifying reason.
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