[REQUEST] 2H/DualWield Stamina Nightblade Build

MightyMomo

Greetings adventurers!

Recently one of my DD friends learned that he really enjoys playing with 2 handed weapons. As the healer of the group I considered it a good idea, since he used to be ranged and it it didn't really suit our team composition.

Now I ask of you:

Do you have any ideas for a 2H/DualWield Stamina build? All skills, gear and werewolf/vampire skills are on the table.
The Tank theorycrafted with Dreugh King Slayer and Nightmother's gaze with 2h as burst bar and damage bar while DualWield was more of a DoT bar. But we don't really agree on the whole heavy armor set-up with healthy accessories, and since you can get Major Brutality from potions and other buffs, I consider Dreugh King Slayer redundant as a DD.

This link is the first ideas for the build, with gear and skills.
First Build

Everything from entirely fresh builds to minor feedback is appreciated.

We really want everyone in the group to be happy with their setup and enjoy the playstyle. But since our DD running the build doesn't seem to mind much as long as he has a 2h, I thought I'd ask you guys for ideas.

Things that might be of interest:
Tank = Sorc -> No idea about his gear, but he does a good job
Healer = Templar Healer -> SPC/Valkyn Skoria/WillPower
1st DD = Magicka Sorc -> TBS/Kragh/Agility

We mainly run dungeons and plan to move to Arenas soon before adventuring into Trials.

Thanks in advance!

MightyMomo

Just a heads up. We know that 2h is not optimal weapon for PvE when it comes to DPS. But I still think it's better to play with a weapon you like more than going for the optimal dualwield/bow build.

Kutsuu

Being a nightblade, he is lucky that 2h isn't going to be absolutely horrible compared to DW like it would be for other classes thanks to Surprise attack and power extraction. You will still be down on DPS in comparison to DW, but it won't be nearly as severe as other classes.

Now i'm assuming 2h is an absolute must - so here's what I will recommend while you keep in mind that DW/bow is stronger. First, 2h/bow instead of 2h/DW. You need a bow for PVE DPS, there's really no getting around that. My bow does around 5-7k DPS from dots that you only need to recast every 10 seconds. The biggest of these dots is AOE damage (endless hail).

So what I'd recommend is that he go 2x Velidreth or 2x Kra'gh for the monster set. 5x Night Mother's Gaze if you don't already have a NMG user in your group. Otherwise 5x Hunding's would be ok to start with. 3x Agility jewelry (3x Vicious Ophidian would be better). Optimal weapons would be Maelstrom 2h and Maelstrom bow, but gold sharpened weapons can be subbed for the time being. You could also have him go a 5/5/1 type setup, with a Kra'gh 1 piece and 5 NMG + 5 Leviathan (or 5 Vicious Ophidian) for example.

When he wants to avoid using potions and needs an AOE attack, front bar could be like this:
Surprise Attack, Power Extraction (swap for Rally when AOE isn't needed), Killer's Blade, Expert Hunter (either morph), Relentless Focus, Dawnbreaker

Back Bar:
Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Rearming Trap, Caltrops (maybe Acid Spray if no caltrops, but Caltrops has amazing synergy with Night Mother's Gaze), Siphoning Attacks, Incapacitating Strike.

Essentially the single target rotation would amount to always keeping Poison Injection, Endless Hail, and Rearming trap on the target 100% uptime, keeping Brutality up from Power Exctraction, buff Siphoning Attacks ONLY if stamina is getting low and sustain is needed, and spamming surprise attack above 25%, Killer's Blade below 25%. Keep dots up while in execute phase unless mob is going to die in less than 10s. One thing I like to do with execute phase is around 30-35% life (depending on how fast mob is dying) swap to bow bar and get your dots refreshed, then use Incap Strike, swap back to main bar to spam killer's blade. He should be weaving light attacks *ALWAYS* with every ability, and learning to block cancel Rearming Trap and Endless Hail are solid DPS increases.

I'd imagine you could see ~20k DPS out of this setup without too much fuss.

MightyMomo

It's exactly something like this I was looking for! I dont think he would mind bow as DoT instead of DW since it won't make much difference when just applying DoTs either way.

I'll pass it on to him and see what he think tomorrow. Thanks


Other ideas or tweaks are of course still welcome!

MightyMomo

Kutsuu wrote: »

When he wants to avoid using potions and needs an AOE attack, front bar could be like this:
Surprise Attack, Power Extraction (swap for Rally when AOE isn't needed), Killer's Blade, Expert Hunter (either morph), Relentless Focus, Dawnbreaker

Wouldn't Executioner (2h execute) be better in every way compared to Killer's Blade?

Kutsuu

MightyMomo wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

When he wants to avoid using potions and needs an AOE attack, front bar could be like this:
Surprise Attack, Power Extraction (swap for Rally when AOE isn't needed), Killer's Blade, Expert Hunter (either morph), Relentless Focus, Dawnbreaker

Wouldn't Executioner (2h execute) be better in every way compared to Killer's Blade?

Executioner only becomes stronger than Surprise Attack around 32% life, and doesn't become stronger than Killer's blade until ~5% life. At 25% life, Killer's blade has a significant advantage over executioner because it does all of the 300% extra damage immediately at 25% life. Executioner scales linearly from 50%-0% up to 350% damage. Reverse Slice might be fun for the AOE damage. I mean either execute will work, it's not like we're going full on optimal build here.

MightyMomo

Kutsuu wrote: »

Executioner only becomes stronger than Surprise Attack around 32% life, and doesn't become stronger than Killer's blade until ~5% life. At 25% life, Killer's blade has a significant advantage over executioner because it does all of the 300% extra damage immediately at 25% life. Executioner scales linearly from 50%-0% up to 350% damage. Reverse Slice might be fun for the AOE damage. I mean either execute will work, it's not like we're going full on optimal build here.

Ooh, I see I see.

I'd just imagine that Reverse Slice would be really nice as AoE and dungeons with multiple bosses. But if it scales like that I can see why Killer's Blade is probably the better choice.

What about Critical Charge? If we end up getting him a Maelstrom 2h, won't most of the effect go to waste?

And I'm guessing that Thief would be the mundus stone to pick with this build right?

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for all the help!

Kutsuu

MightyMomo wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Executioner only becomes stronger than Surprise Attack around 32% life, and doesn't become stronger than Killer's blade until ~5% life. At 25% life, Killer's blade has a significant advantage over executioner because it does all of the 300% extra damage immediately at 25% life. Executioner scales linearly from 50%-0% up to 350% damage. Reverse Slice might be fun for the AOE damage. I mean either execute will work, it's not like we're going full on optimal build here.

Ooh, I see I see.

I'd just imagine that Reverse Slice would be really nice as AoE and dungeons with multiple bosses. But if it scales like that I can see why Killer's Blade is probably the better choice.

What about Critical Charge? If we end up getting him a Maelstrom 2h, won't most of the effect go to waste?

And I'm guessing that Thief would be the mundus stone to pick with this build right?

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for all the help!

Yes thief for sure. The main use of the Maelstrom 2h would be the extra weapon damage - crit charge prob isn't worth a bar slot in PVE unless he just wants to move from group to group faster. However a 348 WD enchant on a non-maelstrom 2h may have enough uptime to be better overall. Really you might get the best performance out of that 5/5/1 setup I suggested - I haven't put serious PVE time into testing 2h builds honestly! This is guesswork based on DW stuff but DW gets an extra slot. But just thinking on this, going 5x NMG, 5x Leviathan, 1x Kra'gh, with a WD enchant on the 2h (NMG 2h for sanity's sake, that way you can use Leviathan jewelry and 2x armor pieces which will be easy to farm), I think it could outperform the proc DPS from 2x Kra'gh or 2x Velidreth using the agility setup.

MightyMomo

Kutsuu wrote: »

Yes thief for sure. The main use of the Maelstrom 2h would be the extra weapon damage - crit charge prob isn't worth a bar slot in PVE unless he just wants to move from group to group faster. However a 348 WD enchant on a non-maelstrom 2h may have enough uptime to be better overall. Really you might get the best performance out of that 5/5/1 setup I suggested - I haven't put serious PVE time into testing 2h builds honestly! This is guesswork based on DW stuff but DW gets an extra slot. But just thinking on this, going 5x NMG, 5x Leviathan, 1x Kra'gh, with a WD enchant on the 2h (NMG 2h for sanity's sake, that way you can use Leviathan jewelry and 2x armor pieces which will be easy to farm), I think it could outperform the proc DPS from 2x Kra'gh or 2x Velidreth using the agility setup.

Hm, alright I'll make sure to pass this on to him.

The more I think about it, I should convince him to go DW, since the only real difference seems to be Rally and Dawnbreaker. But if he prefers 2h and he's fine with this build it's a good beginning.

Why did you pick Incapacitating Strike over Soul Harvest? Does it work on bosses?

Kutsuu

MightyMomo wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Yes thief for sure. The main use of the Maelstrom 2h would be the extra weapon damage - crit charge prob isn't worth a bar slot in PVE unless he just wants to move from group to group faster. However a 348 WD enchant on a non-maelstrom 2h may have enough uptime to be better overall. Really you might get the best performance out of that 5/5/1 setup I suggested - I haven't put serious PVE time into testing 2h builds honestly! This is guesswork based on DW stuff but DW gets an extra slot. But just thinking on this, going 5x NMG, 5x Leviathan, 1x Kra'gh, with a WD enchant on the 2h (NMG 2h for sanity's sake, that way you can use Leviathan jewelry and 2x armor pieces which will be easy to farm), I think it could outperform the proc DPS from 2x Kra'gh or 2x Velidreth using the agility setup.

Hm, alright I'll make sure to pass this on to him.

The more I think about it, I should convince him to go DW, since the only real difference seems to be Rally and Dawnbreaker. But if he prefers 2h and he's fine with this build it's a good beginning.

Why did you pick Incapacitating Strike over Soul Harvest? Does it work on bosses?

Incap strike scales with physical damage and physical penetration - it does a lot more damage for a stamina build and it's extremely good in PVP. Personally I don't like to swap morphs because I PVE and PVP a lot. Soul Harvest can be really good to get ultimate up fast, but it's best suited to front bar with a Meteor or dawnbreaker back bar.

Also I front bar dawnbreaker most of the time even in DW spec. Look at Jeckll's recommendations for Dungeon PVE - I use something like that most of the time.

If you can get your friend to consider DW/bow, have a look at this amazing thread where all the math is done for you and there are a dozen setups to choose from.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-pve-dps-guide-for-dark-brotherhood/

MightyMomo

Ooh I see, but I don't think I can convince him to go DW just yet.

But he does a few problems with getting one-shotted. Especially in dungeons like Wayrest Sewers 1 on veteran hm at the final boss because of that pesky teleporting backtab.

Would it be a 7 piece medium, or a 5/1/1 set up?

And how much health should he go for? Around 18k with food buff like most other builds?

Kutsuu

MightyMomo wrote: »

Ooh I see, but I don't think I can convince him to go DW just yet.

But he does a few problems with getting one-shotted. Especially in dungeons like Wayrest Sewers 1 on veteran hm at the final boss because of that pesky teleporting backtab.

Would it be a 7 piece medium, or a 5/1/1 set up?

And how much health should he go for? Around 18k with food buff like most other builds?

7 medium is usually best in PVE, extra crit is always valuable. As far as health, that sorta depends on CP. A high CP player who is quick on their feet can get away with 16-17k. A low CP player I'd want around 18k.

That wayrest I boss, biggest thing there is being topped off on health immediately after he does his whirlwind attack. The teleport backstab attack should only do around 11k damage, so you shouldn't die unless already low on health. I regularly tank that fight on my stamsorc with 18k health, it's a little rough b/c the power attack hits me for 16k through block, but it works if you get a burst heal right after or dodge it.

MightyMomo

Kutsuu wrote: »

7 medium is usually best in PVE, extra crit is always valuable. As far as health, that sorta depends on CP. A high CP player who is quick on their feet can get away with 16-17k. A low CP player I'd want around 18k.

That wayrest I boss, biggest thing there is being topped off on health immediately after he does his whirlwind attack. The teleport backstab attack should only do around 11k damage, so you shouldn't die unless already low on health. I regularly tank that fight on my stamsorc with 18k health, it's a little rough b/c the power attack hits me for 16k through block, but it works if you get a burst heal right after or dodge it.

Okay I think I am almost out of questions.

What glyph would you recommend on bow if sword gets WD, until we start doing Maelstrom Arena?
And would it be the usual 3x Infused and 4x Divine?
I'm guessing rings/neck should be prefernce, depending on how well he handles his stamina. If he can't handle it at all it should probably be something like 1x dmg, 1x recovery and 1x reduction right?

Thank you for all your help so far!

Kutsuu

MightyMomo wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

7 medium is usually best in PVE, extra crit is always valuable. As far as health, that sorta depends on CP. A high CP player who is quick on their feet can get away with 16-17k. A low CP player I'd want around 18k.

That wayrest I boss, biggest thing there is being topped off on health immediately after he does his whirlwind attack. The teleport backstab attack should only do around 11k damage, so you shouldn't die unless already low on health. I regularly tank that fight on my stamsorc with 18k health, it's a little rough b/c the power attack hits me for 16k through block, but it works if you get a burst heal right after or dodge it.

Okay I think I am almost out of questions.

What glyph would you recommend on bow if sword gets WD, until we start doing Maelstrom Arena?
And would it be the usual 3x Infused and 4x Divine?
I'm guessing rings/neck should be prefernce, depending on how well he handles his stamina. If he can't handle it at all it should probably be something like 1x dmg, 1x recovery and 1x reduction right?

Thank you for all your help so far!

No problem at all it's fun to theorycraft stuff.

I'd probably just throw a poison enchant on the bow.

Also I think 3x infused and 4x divines is a bit outdated - go full divines if possible. Even training trait would be fine if he is not CP capped (7 pieces of purple training is a 70% boost to XP! More than having a permanent ambrosia or crown scroll), just make sure weapons are still sharpened.

Start with 3x damage glyphs on Jewelry. Siphoning Attacks is incredibly powerful sustain. If he is light attack weaving and using siphoning attacks when needed, sustain won't be an issue. If it becomes necessary, one cost reduction glyph is good.

MightyMomo

Alright I think that answers all my questions for now! You've been a great help.

I'll leave it open and quote something you wrote to summon you in case I have more questions