Bug mounts to fight the rise of Thranduilism

LMar

Yes, the title is made in jest.

However, the upcoming elk mount will see a lot of people buying it and wandering Tamriel in Elk mounts. And I bet a lot of these people will be Altmer and Bosmer. In Elder Scrolls reality though, Elves, or Mer, are more likely to have huge bug/insect mounts. You can actually find bug farms in Valenwood in the game too and you also have the wonderful bug fauna of Morrowind as well such as Nix Hounds, Silt Striders etc. Thankfully we have some insect pets already.

The Dres are known in lore to use insect mounts as well. And here is Vivec enjoying his birthday on a giant insect mount (he probably made it bigger since he is a god. Picture came from the art book that came with the Morrowind collector's edition

inflaburwb17_ESO

In your image... is the rider facing the right way ? Or is the head of the beast fixed at the right end?

EvilCroc

Dunmeri culture is quite different in comparison with other mer. I think ZOS will make some new insect-like mounts in Vvardenfell expansion. I would love to see Dres Wasp floating mount. Or huge nix-hound.

Anyway, if you'll read new elk mount description, you'll see that it's from Skyrim and not associated with any mer race. Any elves on elk is not canon and lorebreaking. If you want elves with deer - go play Dragon Age or watch Hobbit movie once again.

DPShiro

Would love to see some! More diversity is definitely needed

Also I will be really happy if I ever get my Velidreth mount, who keeps saying "I'm sooo hungryyy" "OmNomNom" etc when I ride around.

LMar

Hard to know with some insects. Esp in that pic. Due to the orientation of its feet I would say the head is facing to the left edge of the pic, and what you see as a head on the right is actually just a big pile of body and pincers like scorpions which have them at the end of their "tail".

Yes Dunmer have quite a bit of variety of insect husbandry but Altmer and Bosmer also have those. But I just meant that a lot of people are going to be affected by Lord of the Rings and pick Elks for their elves. Hence the introduction of insect mounts to help balance that out

Abeille

Dunmeri culture is very unique and I find it unlikely that anything that they do is also done by Altmer or Bosmer, necessarily. Especially Altmer. Bosmer... Well, sure, I can see them riding those big bugs. But their farms can be merely for food, too. So I would say that the only Mer we know that rides bugs is the Dunmer, and extrapolating this to other Mer races wouldn't necessarily be lore-friendly.

I don't think Bosmer riding an Elk is something that doesn't make sense, I imagine that they would ride anything that is big enough to carry them (so, almost everything :P). I am almost sure I read about them riding boars somewhere in the past, but don't quote me on that. It comes down to Elks not being a creature that is adapted to the warm lands of the Bosmer and Altmer, in my opinion.

LMar wrote: »

Yes Dunmer have quite a bit of variety of insect husbandry but Altmer and Bosmer also have those.

I don't think I ever saw any indication of that. But of course, it is possible that I just didn't notice it.
Once, we brainstormed in a thread about lore-friendly mounts, and we suggested flightless Gryphons for the Altmer. For no good reasons other than "they like Eagles and Gryphons look cool", I have to admit. Gryphons are a thing that exists in TES Lore, by the way.

LMar

Abeille wrote: »

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LMar wrote: »

Yes Dunmer have quite a bit of variety of insect husbandry but Altmer and Bosmer also have those.

I don't think I ever saw any indication of that. But of course, it is possible that I just didn't notice it.

There is the farm with beetles that you can find in Grahtwood. There's even a quest associated with it.
There's also big numbers of huge wasps in AD territory which the Dres have used (or will use) as mounts, but yeah, we don't have info as to whether the Bosmer rode wasps too.

Abeille

LMar wrote: »

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Abeille wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

Yes Dunmer have quite a bit of variety of insect husbandry but Altmer and Bosmer also have those.

I don't think I ever saw any indication of that. But of course, it is possible that I just didn't notice it.

There is the farm with beetles that you can find in Grahtwood. There's even a quest associated with it.
There's also big numbers of huge wasps in AD territory which the Dres have used (or will use) as mounts, but yeah, we don't have info as to whether the Bosmer rode wasps too.

None of this is any indication that they would be used as mounts by them. Bosmeri culinary makes extensive use of insects because of the Green Pact, and the wasps used by the Dres are much bigger than any of the wasps in AD territory. And again, Dunmeri culture is too different, too alien, too unique to be bundled up with other Mer. Almost any culture in Tamriel is more similar to Altmeri culture than the Dunmeri culture is.

I am not against the addition of bug mounts. But I won't be happy if ZOS doesn't specify that the Dunmer are the ones to ride it and just put that "It is an elven mount" on its description. I don't want them bundling up Mer cultures, they are not the same.

jroc699_burr

could you imagine a flying bug mount

LMar

There's also a mention in the The Improved Emperor's Guide to Tamriel which is An illustrated guidebook included with the ESO physical Imperial Edition of "Alchemy is employed to stiffen specific insect resins that are sculpted in a similar manner to the ways the Altmer use glass." That doesn't necessarily mean they breed specific insects to do that but it is a possibility.

And sure Abeille, I am not advocating the mixing of Mer cultures just for mounts. If you look at the language I used it is full of qualifications. On the contrary. I am just saying that insect mounts make more sense for Mer than Elk. In fact horse mounts are quite more appropriate for Altmer instead.

Hallothiel

Oh you spoil all my fun. Was going to make a white blond altmer who can duel wield like a demon, prancing around on the elk....to go with a dark haired 2h nord riding a round looking miserable on a white wolf.....

But shan't now.........

LMar

Hallothiel wrote: »

Oh you spoil all my fun. Was going to make a white blond altmer who can duel wield like a demon, prancing around on the elk....to go with a dark haired 2h nord riding a round looking miserable on a white wolf.....

But shan't now.........

I thought it would have been an Orc on a white wolf?

Hallothiel

'Yer knerw nuthin, LMar'

Yes, I know. Bad accent, and of course I realise Jon Snow doesn't actually <ride> his white wolf but hey.....

Abeille

Hallothiel wrote: »

'Yer knerw nuthin, LMar'

Yes, I know. Bad accent, and of course I realise Jon Snow doesn't actually <ride> his white wolf but hey.....

Let me nitpick for a second because that's all I do in these forums: Ghost has red eyes and is completely mute. The Ice Wolf has blue eyes and howls.

Done, carry on.

MasterSpatula

That looks like a regular sized Silt Strider with a really huge Vivec in the image to me. I wonder if juvenile Silt Striders would be the right size to make a good mount.

(As an aside, I'm really hoping when Vvaardenfell is released, ZOS corrects one of Bethesda's major oversights and shows us Silt Striders in the wild.)

Prof_Bawbag

EvilCroc wrote: »

Dunmeri culture is quite different in comparison with other mer. I think ZOS will make some new insect-like mounts in Vvardenfell expansion. I would love to see Dres Wasp floating mount. Or huge nix-hound.

Anyway, if you'll read new elk mount description, you'll see that it's from Skyrim and not associated with any mer race. Any elves on elk is not canon and lorebreaking. If you want elves with deer - go play Dragon Age or watch Hobbit movie once again.

You lot really are precious when it comes to your lore. We get it, absolutely no one or nothing can deviate from the "lore". What most of you tend to ignore is the whole point of setting the game during the Interregnum is that the period has always been shrouded in mystery. So who knows if people with pointy ears or missing toes rode giant elks or even 3 legged gophers.

Hallothiel

@Abeille

Always appreciate a decent bit of nitpicking but sadly it's the closest I can get.....can't even get a decent northern accent. (As a Brit I have to say that the mockney accents of many of the Bosmer do nothing to endear them to me. Quite like the posh Altmer though.)

Though, OP, Thranduil actually rides an ancient Irish Elk / Megalocerus..... (slightly different antlers) - see can nitpick too!

Abeille

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

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EvilCroc wrote: »

Dunmeri culture is quite different in comparison with other mer. I think ZOS will make some new insect-like mounts in Vvardenfell expansion. I would love to see Dres Wasp floating mount. Or huge nix-hound.

Anyway, if you'll read new elk mount description, you'll see that it's from Skyrim and not associated with any mer race. Any elves on elk is not canon and lorebreaking. If you want elves with deer - go play Dragon Age or watch Hobbit movie once again.

You lot really are precious when it comes to your lore. We get it, absolutely no one or nothing can deviate from the "lore". What most of you tend to ignore is the whole point of setting the game during the Interregnum is that the period has always been shrouded in mystery. So who knows if people with pointy ears or missing toes rode giant elks or even 3 legged gophers.

Although I do not agree with the person you quoted when they said that elves riding Elks would be lorebreaking (what exactly stops them from riding elks, or any other animal, regardless of who started taming and riding it?), without the lore this game would be just another MMO in the market.

While this time period is, as you said, "shrouded in mystery", there are some things that we know are not possible. A person of a race riding a mount that another race rides isn't one of these things (if there is any doubt because of my other posts here, no, I am not opposed to Altmer and Bosmer riding bugs, I'm opposed to saying "if Dunmer do it, other Mer do it too").

Lore is more flexible than many fans seem to think, though.

Hallothiel wrote: »

@Abeille

Always appreciate a decent bit of nitpicking but sadly it's the closest I can get.....can't even get a decent northern accent. (As a Brit I have to say that the mockney accents of many of the Bosmer do nothing to endear them to me. Quite like the posh Altmer though.)

Though, OP, Thranduil actually rides an ancient Irish Elk / Megalocerus..... (slightly different antlers) - see can nitpick too!

Good call!

dem0n1k

Assassin bug mounts would be cool if they could do the 'shadow step'

Korah_Eaglecry

LMar wrote: »

Yes, the title is made in jest.

However, the upcoming elk mount will see a lot of people buying it and wandering Tamriel in Elk mounts. And I bet a lot of these people will be Altmer and Bosmer. In Elder Scrolls reality though, Elves, or Mer, are more likely to have huge bug/insect mounts. You can actually find bug farms in Valenwood in the game too and you also have the wonderful bug fauna of Morrowind as well such as Nix Hounds, Silt Striders etc. Thankfully we have some insect pets already.

The Dres are known in lore to use insect mounts as well. And here is Vivec enjoying his birthday on a giant insect mount (he probably made it bigger since he is a god. Picture came from the art book that came with the Morrowind collector's edition

Dunmer =/= Altmer and Bosmer.

Korah_Eaglecry

EvilCroc wrote: »

Dunmeri culture is quite different in comparison with other mer. I think ZOS will make some new insect-like mounts in Vvardenfell expansion. I would love to see Dres Wasp floating mount. Or huge nix-hound.

Anyway, if you'll read new elk mount description, you'll see that it's from Skyrim and not associated with any mer race. Any elves on elk is not canon and lorebreaking. If you want elves with deer - go play Dragon Age or watch Hobbit movie once again.

Just for that. Ima make sure my Bosmer is riding round on that thing. Ill even post a snapshot. Just for you.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I would like to submit the information that back in Redguard, the Steed constellation was depicted as a giant beetle:

Spoiler

And for Shivering Isles wasn't there art for Order mounts that were giant bugs too? So @Lawrence_Schick doesn't have to work very hard to fit them in, they're already there.

I'm largely ignoring Silt Striders, because while we know they're used for transportation I think they're a little too big to be a single person mount.

LMar

Hallothiel wrote: »

'Yer knerw nuthin, LMar'

Yes, I know. Bad accent, and of course I realise Jon Snow doesn't actually <ride> his white wolf but hey.....

Hah, I thought you were referring to that big Orc, Azog the Defiler in the Hobbit movie not Jon Snow! He rides a whitish wolf doesn't he?

MasterSpatula wrote: »

That looks like a regular sized Silt Strider with a really huge Vivec in the image to me. I wonder if juvenile Silt Striders would be the right size to make a good mount.

(As an aside, I'm really hoping when Vvaardenfell is released, ZOS corrects one of Bethesda's major oversights and shows us Silt Striders in the wild.)

Silt striders don't quite look like that drawing and have more legs. It more closely resembles a gigantic nix hound

Also, just so we are clear, nobody is saying Altmer act like Bosmer or Dunmer. The whole point is that Mer are a lot more exotic in TES games than general fantasy and as such picking Elks, being the Tolkien stereotype, does them injustice. Bug mounts fit more to their alien backgrounds

Abeille

LMar wrote: »

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Hallothiel wrote: »

'Yer knerw nuthin, LMar'

Yes, I know. Bad accent, and of course I realise Jon Snow doesn't actually <ride> his white wolf but hey.....

Hah, I thought you were referring to that big Orc, Azog the Defiler in the Hobbit movie not Jon Snow! He rides a whitish wolf doesn't he?

show previous quotes

MasterSpatula wrote: »

That looks like a regular sized Silt Strider with a really huge Vivec in the image to me. I wonder if juvenile Silt Striders would be the right size to make a good mount.

(As an aside, I'm really hoping when Vvaardenfell is released, ZOS corrects one of Bethesda's major oversights and shows us Silt Striders in the wild.)

Silt striders don't quite look like that drawing and have more legs. It more closely resembles a gigantic nix hound

Also, just so we are clear, nobody is saying Altmer act like Bosmer or Dunmer. The whole point is that Mer are a lot more exotic in TES games than general fantasy and as such picking Elks, being the Tolkien stereotype, does them injustice. Bug mounts fit more to their alien backgrounds

How do you feel about Gryphons?
We talked about it on that thread I linked earlier, and many good ideas came up. Mostly by @Gidorick (why did you leave us? ç-ç).
I know that the Pocket Guide to the Empire can hardly be trusted and is largely considered propaganda these days, but they mention Hippogriffs in Valenwood too.
(all flightless, of course, like we said on that thread I linked)

ArchMikem

EvilCroc wrote: »

Dunmeri culture is quite different in comparison with other mer. I think ZOS will make some new insect-like mounts in Vvardenfell expansion. I would love to see Dres Wasp floating mount. Or huge nix-hound.

Yet the Devs said anything flying is out of the question.

LMar

Abeille wrote: »

How do you feel about Gryphons?

The only item that shows that Gryphons exist is a feather from back in Daggerfall no? Given that it is the only clue, it could really be anything (unreliable narrator and all that) and named as such by unscrupulous alchemists to sell more. It could be a common harpy feather for all we know XD But if implemented well it could have potential. However, it hearkens back to the early start of the TES games when its lore wasn''t fully formed and a lot of common fantasy themes were still intertwined with it. But as has been said, the lore is there to make the game more alive and not to stifle it. So as long as it properly fits inside the setting it should be fine. I mean, even Elks are fine to a degree but as the flavour text says, it fits a lot more with the Reachmen and perhaps Skyrim.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I'm going to stand by the penguin-gryphon concept; I even wrote some...I guess you could call it fanfiction:

Spoiler

Though the Altmer of Summerset will claim hundreds of years of gryphon husbandry, the species was originally introduced to Tamriel from Atmora. Being a herdbeast that could be fed on fish and that was capable of fending off minor threats on their own (unlike cows), they were favored during sea voyages and in coastal settlements where growing conditions were poor.

Gryphons came into the hands of mer during the sack of Saarthal, when a Snow Elf warrior whose name has been lost took a liking to the creatures and claimed a number of them as war booty. He in turn sent breeding stock to his wife-to-be, an Altmer girl of modest bloodline who lived in Summerset. This proved fortunate for the species: raising the creatures quickly became a fad, so while the original northern stocks were slaughtered nearly into extinction during the war between the Nords and the Snow Elves, their numbers in Summerset grew exponentially, and continued to grow for the next hundred years until the White Mite Mange decimated the population and Aldmeri farmers turned to less susceptible creatures.

It should be noted, however, that though its popularity has waned gryphon farming still occurs in some of the more isolated coastal settlements to this day. Their pelts command decent prices for its water resistance and unique texture, their meat is edible if somewhat greasy, and their blubber is used for oil in much the same way as that of whales. They are useful as guardbeasts, being keen of eye and relatively fearless, and if well-fed or raised solely on fish can be trusted to guard larger livestock of other species such as cattle. Feral beasts are less discriminatory, and have been known to attack lone travelers (although this is rare).

Abeille

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I'm going to stand by the penguin-gryphon concept; I even wrote some...I guess you could call it fanfiction:

Spoiler

Though the Altmer of Summerset will claim hundreds of years of gryphon husbandry, the species was originally introduced to Tamriel from Atmora. Being a herdbeast that could be fed on fish and that was capable of fending off minor threats on their own (unlike cows), they were favored during sea voyages and in coastal settlements where growing conditions were poor.

Gryphons came into the hands of mer during the sack of Saarthal, when a Snow Elf warrior whose name has been lost took a liking to the creatures and claimed a number of them as war booty. He in turn sent breeding stock to his wife-to-be, an Altmer girl of modest bloodline who lived in Summerset. This proved fortunate for the species: raising the creatures quickly became a fad, so while the original northern stocks were slaughtered nearly into extinction during the war between the Nords and the Snow Elves, their numbers in Summerset grew exponentially, and continued to grow for the next hundred years until the White Mite Mange decimated the population and Aldmeri farmers turned to less susceptible creatures.

It should be noted, however, that though its popularity has waned gryphon farming still occurs in some of the more isolated coastal settlements to this day. Their pelts command decent prices for its water resistance and unique texture, their meat is edible if somewhat greasy, and their blubber is used for oil in much the same way as that of whales. They are useful as guardbeasts, being keen of eye and relatively fearless, and if well-fed or raised solely on fish can be trusted to guard larger livestock of other species such as cattle. Feral beasts are less discriminatory, and have been known to attack lone travelers (although this is rare).

I like this concept, but call me old-fashioned or Dominion loyalist, but I still prefer the regular eagle ones.

Lovely fanfiction, by the way.

LMar wrote: »

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Abeille wrote: »

How do you feel about Gryphons?

The only item that shows that Gryphons exist is a feather from back in Daggerfall no? Given that it is the only clue, it could really be anything (unreliable narrator and all that) and named as such by unscrupulous alchemists to sell more. It could be a common harpy feather for all we know XD But if implemented well it could have potential. However, it hearkens back to the early start of the TES games when its lore wasn''t fully formed and a lot of common fantasy themes were still intertwined with it. But as has been said, the lore is there to make the game more alive and not to stifle it. So as long as it properly fits inside the setting it should be fine. I mean, even Elks are fine to a degree but as the flavour text says, it fits a lot more with the Reachmen and perhaps Skyrim.

While that is true, ESO contains a lot of pre-Morrowind lore, so it wouldn't be a surprise if they decided to add a creature that was merely hinted at in the past.
They could give it the Dire Wolf treatment: Add them as wild creatures, add some books on them and then add them as mounts.
If they do not actually exist in the lore as real creatures, at least the concept of Gryphons exist, so they would be a myth. But even if they have "myth" status in other games, they don't have to be just a myth in this one. They could be creatures from the island of Summerset or from one of the smaller islands of the archipelago, an island that we don't have access to yet. Since the Summerset Isles are super closed to outsiders, especially the main island where the capital Alinor is, it wouldn't be so unlikely that some creatures that other races see as a myth actually were alive there all along (and would end up extinct later down the timeline).