Strategic Overlay for Alliance War Coordination

nml

Hail,

I would like to suggest an addition to the Cyrodiil map for group leaders to be able to assign waypoints clearly marked A, B, C, (or attack, defend, scout, patrol, sentry) to be able to draw circles, squares, and lines on the map that their group members can see, and to be able to "share" their location with other raids. Of course, mechanisms for agreement and opt-in would need to be present to prevent abuse.

Cyrodiil is more than just PvP, it is AvA, and as such lends itself to requiring more strategic user interface elements, even beyond that of an individual group of players. Kindly consider this suggestion with an open mind.

Thank you,

-NML
Imperator, Ars Imperatoria
North American PC/MAC, Trueflame

Crispen_Longbow

nml wrote: »

Hail,

I would like to suggest an addition to the Cyrodiil map for group leaders to be able to assign waypoints clearly marked A, B, C, (or attack, defend, scout, patrol, sentry) to be able to draw circles, squares, and lines on the map that their group members can see, and to be able to "share" their location with other raids. Of course, mechanisms for agreement and opt-in would need to be present to prevent abuse.

Cyrodiil is more than just PvP, it is AvA, and as such lends itself to requiring more strategic user interface elements, even beyond that of an individual group of players. Kindly consider this suggestion with an open mind.

Thank you,

-NML
Imperator, Ars Imperatoria
North American PC/MAC, Trueflame

If your looking to coordinate within your own group you can already do this with addons.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=357#info

I would recommend your goal to be making your groups start using TS, Vent, discord etc, you can accomplish this more efficiently and faster then putting points on a map.

susmitds

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

nml wrote: »

Hail,

I would like to suggest an addition to the Cyrodiil map for group leaders to be able to assign waypoints clearly marked A, B, C, (or attack, defend, scout, patrol, sentry) to be able to draw circles, squares, and lines on the map that their group members can see, and to be able to "share" their location with other raids. Of course, mechanisms for agreement and opt-in would need to be present to prevent abuse.

Cyrodiil is more than just PvP, it is AvA, and as such lends itself to requiring more strategic user interface elements, even beyond that of an individual group of players. Kindly consider this suggestion with an open mind.

Thank you,

-NML
Imperator, Ars Imperatoria
North American PC/MAC, Trueflame

If your looking to coordinate within your own group you can already do this with addons.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=357#info

I would recommend your goal to be making your groups start using TS, Vent, discord etc, you can accomplish this more efficiently and faster then putting points on a map.

That add-on does not update passively and way way too complicated. Also, NML mostly leads PUGs.

Crispen_Longbow

susmitds wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

nml wrote: »

Hail,

I would like to suggest an addition to the Cyrodiil map for group leaders to be able to assign waypoints clearly marked A, B, C, (or attack, defend, scout, patrol, sentry) to be able to draw circles, squares, and lines on the map that their group members can see, and to be able to "share" their location with other raids. Of course, mechanisms for agreement and opt-in would need to be present to prevent abuse.

Cyrodiil is more than just PvP, it is AvA, and as such lends itself to requiring more strategic user interface elements, even beyond that of an individual group of players. Kindly consider this suggestion with an open mind.

Thank you,

-NML
Imperator, Ars Imperatoria
North American PC/MAC, Trueflame

If your looking to coordinate within your own group you can already do this with addons.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=357#info

I would recommend your goal to be making your groups start using TS, Vent, discord etc, you can accomplish this more efficiently and faster then putting points on a map.

That add-on does not update passively and way way too complicated. Also, NML mostly leads PUGs.

Step one. Kick/Don't invite any pugs not using TS.

If you refuse to do #1 you are just walking AP for your enemy and prime 1vX footage for videos.

nml

Crispen, respectfully not everybody wants to use teamspeak - some play with family members at home who don't want to hear constant chattering with strangers over the internet. The game's strategic layer should be standalone and shouldn't require the use of the human voice.

With that said, the original post also mentioned coordination between multiple groups via location sharing or shared objectives on the map. Please imagine that the game would be better if leaders of multiple raids could better coordinate with each other via in-game tools and mechanics such as the ones suggested in the original post.

Thank you,

Crispen_Longbow

nml wrote: »

Crispen, respectfully not everybody wants to use teamspeak - some play with family members at home who don't want to hear constant chattering with strangers over the internet. The game's strategic layer should be standalone and shouldn't require the use of the human voice.

With that said, the original post also mentioned coordination between multiple groups via location sharing or shared objectives on the map. Please imagine that the game would be better if leaders of multiple raids could better coordinate with each other via in-game tools and mechanics such as the ones suggested in the original post.

Thank you,

Like I said above. As long as you refuse to use it you are just walking AP for your enemy. You will lead your group to be farmed over and over again by your enemy. All those new players will have a bad taste of what PVP is and won't come back. Putting marks on a map won't help you lead a group in combat. Sure they may help you start herding your lambs to the slaughter in different directions but that's about it.

I'm not trying to be rude to you at all. The fact is, that If you want to lead groups and do a good job at it, you need coms. I have seen many pug herders in my time and most of them catch onto the Coms issue or they burn out from always dying.

Crispen_Longbow

nml wrote: »

Crispen, respectfully not everybody wants to use teamspeak - some play with family members at home who don't want to hear constant chattering with strangers over the internet. The game's strategic layer should be standalone and shouldn't require the use of the human voice.

With that said, the original post also mentioned coordination between multiple groups via location sharing or shared objectives on the map. Please imagine that the game would be better if leaders of multiple raids could better coordinate with each other via in-game tools and mechanics such as the ones suggested in the original post.

Thank you,

I forgot to touch on the multiple raids. First and foremost "DON'T STACK RAIDS" This game turns into a *** show when you do that. So if you aren't stacking raids at a single location you don't need realtime updates. You can simply whisper the raid lead you want to coordinate with to attack different locations. You can still accomplish this in coms or whispers.

adirondack

I suggest you contact Nait (@Crown77) for advice on coordination. He is looking to share his experiences and will likely have some good ideas for you.

In my opinion, you are doing a great job of bringing together players, regardless if they are experienced or new to PvP. To be most successful, take Crispen's comments to heart as well - he isn't being rude or demeaning, simply explaining what might happen if coordination does not happen.

Best of luck and keep leading! AD is suffering from a lack of group leaders now; we need you to continue and be one of those leaders.

Ray

nml

Thank you Ray for your kind encouragement, I am already in contact with Crown and have learned much from him already.

Crispen, your "you are a walking AP farm leading lambs to the slaughter" comment is both unproductive and untrue - we do pretty well. This thread is about fleshing out the strategic interface available to raid leaders for communicating with their own group via the map, and also with other same-alliance groups via a location sharing feature. How you choose to run your team (with teamspeak, for example) isn't how I run mine, so let's stay on topic.

Anybody else for constructive feedback or improvements on the idea before it is presented to Zenimax for review?

Thank you,

Quantum_V

Why do I have a feeling that zerg leaders will assign waypoints on solo players...

Kartalin

I realize people may have RL concerns that keep them from using teamspeak or the like, but Crispen is right, an unorganized group tends to be fodder for smaller organized groups with comms. People don't have to talk in comms, in fact if you run large groups this is probably preferable, but they can still put headphones on and listen to the raid leads' calls. Things can change very quickly in cyrodiil and you can't always stop to type to give instructions or else you miss opportunities.

nml

Please stay on topic. I am not looking for a justification of using teamspeak. This thread is about enriching the strategic overlay available to raid leaders within Cyrodiil.

Thank you,

Celas_Dranacea

Leading a pvp pug without voice chat is one of the most exhausting things you can do in ESO - I used to do it more often because experiencing a well run pug group was what got me hooked on pvp, and I want to pass on that experience to others.

I totally agree with Crispen though - it's hard to be successful in your reaction time without voice comms...

That said I support anything that would make the average pug group more successful, and whatever would help leaders coordinate better.

NACtron

nml wrote: »

Thank you Ray for your kind encouragement, I am already in contact with Crown and have learned much from him already.

Crispen, your "you are a walking AP farm leading lambs to the slaughter" comment is both unproductive and untrue - we do pretty well. This thread is about fleshing out the strategic interface available to raid leaders for communicating with their own group via the map, and also with other same-alliance groups via a location sharing feature. How you choose to run your team (with teamspeak, for example) isn't how I run mine, so let's stay on topic.

Anybody else for constructive feedback or improvements on the idea before it is presented to Zenimax for review?

Thank you,

When I first started my guild I went without coms for a week. Like Crispen said you either learn it quick or get burned out. Unless you are competing in blackwater blade you need comms.

Almost all raids you will fight in Cryo uses comms. In their comms they are coordinaring ult rotation, Prox dets, movements and tactics etc. How is a group without comms going to compete with that? Regardless of size. I respect the concern about those with familes that cannot be on ts. But there plenty of guilds that don't require a mic, just that you can listen. Mine is one of them. That is not much to ask.

That being said the idea of having more in game tools for raid leads to coordinate would be great. ESO could use tools that naturally encourage faction coordination and map control play.

Manoekin

So, I can draw things on the map and send it to other leaders? I'm ok with that.

Crispen_Longbow

Manoekin wrote: »

So, I can draw things on the map and send it to other leaders? I'm ok with that.

Yes I can see it now.

Manoekin

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

So, I can draw things on the map and send it to other leaders? I'm ok with that.

Yes I can see it now.

Saramis last seen LOL.

Not that that is entirely the purpose I would use it for but it could actually be a good thing.

BooskySG

So using visual communication instead of words, okay. Are faction coordination guilds not a thing anymore? Just wondering

IxSTALKERxI

nml wrote: »

to be able to draw circles, squares, and lines on the map that their group members can see

The group leader can set a rally point with Shift+left click and remove it with Shift + right click.

Anyone in group can use Ctrl + click to put a ping on the map. - This is what I use the most, I'll spam Ctrl + Click in the shape of a line to outline where I want to run a scroll or where a group member should try to place a camp.

I like your idea's about being able to do more than that - but sometimes it's easier just to send a whisper to the other group leader.

Whilst I agree with the points the others made about voice comms - I don't know if you guys have seen NML in action. The guy types 120 words per minute in yell chat with orders everywhere he goes taking back all the resources etc and rounding up all the AD pugs and pointing them in a direction. He is one of the best pug leaders I've seen in quite some time.

Drummerx04

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

So, I can draw things on the map and send it to other leaders? I'm ok with that.

Yes I can see it now.

This is pretty priceless. I'm dying at the Saramis arrow!

I like the idea of more options on the map overlay for coordinating the group or between groups, but ultimately I'm not sure how useful it will be to be able to markup the map with a bunch of lines and arrows.

Perhaps a more straight forward option is to have a reinforcement icon. If Rayles is UA for instance and my group wants to defend but we are at Glade, I can put this new icon (which can also give a group count) on the map to indicate to the faction that my group of X is moving to defend Rayles, so we don't need to accidentally send everybody.

At the very least I would like the option to see other friendly group leader crown icons above their characters (orange or some other distinguishing color) with a number by the crown to indicate group size. This would hopefully aid in knowing who to even bother trying to coordinate with. Members of my group would not see these extra crowns.

Celas_Dranacea

I really like the idea of being able to see the location of other group leaders in your faction and their group size but I would hope there was some type of permissions so you can control who sees this - wouldn't want a spy forming a group of 2 people just to follow the movements of enemy groups.

Derra

sure do that if you in return remove out of range group member markers from the map and compass

Publius_Scipio

Strategic overlay sounds nice, but achieving that is as rare as me walking around Central Park and seeing a unicorn pulling a carriage or as rare as itsy bitsy Dignified Mouse sneaking downstairs and catching Krotha Claus eating the cookies and drinking the milk on Christmas.

You're talking about having most or all of the guilds on the same page to win the campaign and not farm random resources. You're talking about people caring about crowning and holding emperor and caring about campaign score. Most guilds care about AP and editing highlight videos. I'll even add that I don't know any ESO PvP streamer that actually genuinely cares about the campaigns themselves.

NACtron

One way to make this work well is to have it be a invite only type thing. Any crown of a group can send invites to Crowns of other groups. (This group type of course is unqiue from the regular grouping) That way spys don't exist and you only to see the infomation you wanted and agreed to see from people you choose.

This still means leaders in each faction need to be willing to work together and get to know who each other are. (Should not be a hard thing to ask in a MMO) I think it could prevent this idea from being too chaotic.

nml

Good to see there is interest around this. Whatever form it takes, I believe an enhanced strategic overlay would add a valuable dimension to the game - I hope that Zenimax will consider its implementation.

Thank you,

Anazasi

I think its a cool idea. My guess would be since we already have group ping ability or group markers on the map we can actually find a tech type who can make a addon that would accomplish this. My guess is you would have to tie it to a friends list and share ability. I doubt that zos would find the time to do this because it would be difficult to incorporate it on XBOX type platforms. Also you have to remember once you add such an ability you will get the funny drawings of rabbits and turds on maps because there will always be that one abuser in every crowd. This is definitely worth exploring and certainly worth the effort to create or design something of this caliber.

Even if it was just text type raid leader messaging on a small map with raid numbers or symbols. It could be as easy as leaders joining and it simply shows the raid leaders map position in real time.

edit

now you all have me thinking.
the mini maps all ready has the ability to show your group and raid on it. team formation addon allows you to color specific players. why cant someone just make an addon that allows you to use your friends list to mark a real time position on the map of friends(other raid leaders) who are not in your group? It would take some time each night to set up but we all already coordinate in tells anyway. How cool would it be if we could just see where each raid was what they are doing would be obvious by their location.

something like this would take very little time to create and it would be outside of ZOS purview; we know they would mess it up right. Also fixes the issue of for those not wanting to use voice. It allows for player choice and desecration on participation. It removes all possible grief potential. It provides exactly the type of information a raid leader needs.

Celas_Dranacea

One thing I wanted to add is that it is critical for a faction to have leaders willing to lead groups coordinated through text chat, to organize those players who cannot/are not willing to use voice chat so TY NML