Can someone please help me understand why sword and board is really overpowered?

Solidsnake993

The title speaks for itself.

Edit: I need to be more specific. Shield bash is really strong. It hits really hard and I don't understand why that deadly bash passive is so OP.

This is not a nerf thread because I'm not going to lie when I say that I like using sword and board as a damage dealer and somewhat tank in medium armor for PvP.

Last edit: I am not using proc sets by the way. I am using 5 hundings rage 3 pieces on the body and sword and board, 5 spriggon, 1 keena, and 1 validreth. I don't have a 5 1 1 because I need the recovery but I do have the 2% more resources. I have around 3000 weapon damage and 36k maximum stamina. My shield bash hits for about 4k damage and it's great for good burst combos not to mention the blocking mitigates a lot of damage. Don't nerf it please.

I just wanted to make a thread to see what you guys think about the deadly bash passive.

Alucardo

Don't know about "overpowered", but it's strong. For me, the main reason would be the ability to run 2 sets. I'll use my mDK as an example..

With the Spinner set now available, I can run Spinner to make up for the lack of spell penetration from the light armor tree and safely use heavy armor for extra mitigation, healing, damage (Wrath) and sustain (Constitution).
Using a staff I'd have to forgo a full monster set and just be left with 1pc if I wanted to run 2 5pc sets.

Emothic

Overpowered in which way? Sword and board is primarly used for the tank classes of the game. And are good for defense, however they don't provide as much offensive capabilities that a 2 handed, dual wield, or staff might provided. Sword an Board is more of a defensive/crowd control skill line. Though there are better skills for crowd control for larger groups, the S & B line is good for smaller groups or individual players.

Personally I don't think it is Overpowered, as there are other skills that can do a much better job then some of the skills in that line.

Kutsuu

It's not OP. It's used a lot in cases where you need dual weapons to run 5/5/2 and are willing to trade the ~260 weapon/spell damage from DW for better defense and much more efficient blocking.

The main complaint people have is tremorscale I suppose. The damage from it isn't crazy or anything, but the 70% snare can be very tough to deal with on Magicka builds (that aren't templars).

Solidsnake993

It's overpowered because shield bash is still broken even though they said they fixed it like 2 years ago... I just switched over from 2h bow to 2h sword and board after seeing how cheesy shield bash really is on my nightblade.

Emothic

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

It's overpowered because shield bash is still broken even though they said they fixed it like 2 years ago... I just switched over from 2h bow to 2h sword and board after seeing how cheesy shield bash really is on my nightblade.

How is sheild bash broken? I assume you are refering to the final skill in the line. It doesn't do that much damage and it only snares a person for 3 seconds. The damage is not enough to really hurt someone, and the snare is really easy to break out of, if they have the stanima, and it's not really that long either compared to other snares.

idk

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

The title speaks for itself.

Oh no, At release S&B was overpowered and and part of a great DPS build for DKs. Bash hit hard and no CD. It was quickly nerfed.

Emothic wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

It's overpowered because shield bash is still broken even though they said they fixed it like 2 years ago... I just switched over from 2h bow to 2h sword and board after seeing how cheesy shield bash really is on my nightblade.

How is sheild bash broken? I assume you are refering to the final skill in the line. It doesn't do that much damage and it only snares a person for 3 seconds. The damage is not enough to really hurt someone, and the snare is really easy to break out of, if they have the stanima, and it's not really that long either compared to other snares.

He is talking about the same bash we call can use, it just happens to use the shield for the animation when wielding it. It is not where near what it was at the release of the game which is why no one uses that old build anymore.

Emothic

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

He is talking about the same bash we call can use, it just happens to use the shield for the animation when wielding it. It is not where near what it was at the release of the game which is why no one uses that old build anymore.

I don't understand how they think that the standard bash is overpowered. My bashs on my Stam DK do maybe 600 damage on the weakest players, and cost me alot of stamina in the process. Unless you spamm the bash to prevent players from preforming certian abilities, but a good dodge roll will stop that.

bellanca6561n

And for our next hot topic: Why is the Yugo so OP?

GreenSoup2HoT

35% block cost reduction. this allows you to hold block and heal. this is what really makes sword and board so great. add in black rose with red guard and your looking at a spec that can basically perma-block and feel unkillable in some situations.

Solidsnake993

Shield bash does insane damage. They said they nerfed it but I can still hit shield bashes for like 4k. That's a lot of burst because all I have to do is heavy attack cancel surprise attack then shield bash. It does good damage so I don't know why anyone isn't taking advantage of this skill tree.

The hardest I've been hit by shield bash was like 6k but this was about 3 patches ago.

Solidsnake993

Emothic wrote: »

I don't understand how they think that the standard bash is overpowered. My bashs on my Stam DK do maybe 600 damage on the weakest players, and cost me alot of stamina in the process. Unless you spamm the bash to prevent players from preforming certian abilities, but a good dodge roll will stop that.

You probably don't have it set up properly which is why it is not doing that much damage.

Emothic

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

You probably don't have it set up properly which is why it is not doing that much damage.

By that statement there is no problem with shield bashing then. If I do around 600 damage, yet you do 4k damage while having a specific character build for it, then shield bashing on it's own is not overpowered. The only reason why it is powerful is because you have a specific armor sets, champion point, mundus stone, enchantment, ect set up for the shield bash to do that damage. Everyone else who doesn't have that set up is doing the standard "non-overpowered" bashing.

So in short, sheild bashing is not Overpowered. It's your character build that is overpowered.

covenant_merchant

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This is not a nerf thread because I'm not going to lie when I say that I like using sword and board as a damage dealer and somewhat tank in medium armor for PvP.

You're using Medium armor? God, you're a dying breed. Like a virgin, or a unicorn.
You'd have to go 5 - Heavy to fully enjoy the insane advantages which 1h/shield offers you. Namely:

_low cost abilities (1k ransack for 1.8k wrecking blow cost)
_2 slots meaning you can go 5 - 5 - 2 with sets (as said earlier in the thread)
_healing debuff - reverb bash, which 2h or dual wield skill lines sadly lack
_Minor Heroism from Low Slash (while the other morph of Cleave in 2h skill line gives you the same buff, Cleave is useless, while Heroic Slash actually snares and is a viable skill)
_mitigation passives (goes without saying)
_ability to use Tremorscale, one of the most cancerous sets ever made (imo it's worse than viper, and that's saying something)

bellanca6561n

Actually the Tremorscale issue is a good point. The 50% process chance will likely be changed.

On my PvP main I use Knight-Errant which has modest benefits for the skill line in damage and sustain. But, although I have Tremorscale - it's hard to avoid getting it as simply in the course of doing pledges and randoms you'll do Volenfell many times - I don't use it.

No, I'm not some great and noble warrior. Quite the contrary actually. I simply want to learn to become a better player. To do that you need to develop solid fundamentals.

Having some silly mound suddenly appear with an angry lizard's head emerging is....well....you know....the wrong mushrooms.

Kutsuu

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Shield bash does insane damage. They said they nerfed it but I can still hit shield bashes for like 4k. That's a lot of burst because all I have to do is heavy attack cancel surprise attack then shield bash. It does good damage so I don't know why anyone isn't taking advantage of this skill tree.

The hardest I've been hit by shield bash was like 6k but this was about 3 patches ago.

The only time you're bashing for 4k is when it interrupts a cast time ability or channel. Even in my high DPS 1h/shield builds, a normal crit with bash is around 1200-3k depending on target mitigation with 3k being the extreme case of low CP light armor. This is at a cost of around 1k stamina also, so it's very inefficient stamina to damage ratio. Still, damage is damage and doing it in a shorter time is always good in PVP. I only weave bashes when I'm in my burst phase.

I have actually bashed a low CP light armor dude who was ressing for a 7k crit a few weeks ago, but I had his armor 100% penetrated and I have to assume he had next to no points in physical damage reduction.

NordSwordnBoard

Just bjorn that way I guess...

The_Duke

I hit consistantly hit for 4k with bash on my nightblade. This is before battle spirit. LA, surprise attack then bash is alot of burst. Id say it puts out as much as 1 wrecking blow and if animation canceled I can do it in less time. The bash and surprise can proc siphoning attacks and the the LA weaving helps with resource management as a Nightblade.

Its very strong in the right hands.

Solidsnake993

kasa-obake wrote: »

You're using Medium armor? God, you're a dying breed. Like a virgin, or a unicorn.


True words of wisdom: I tried heavy armor and I didn't like it because people have a thing called armor penetration so the amount of damage that I take in medium armor I took in heavy armor. Not to mention you have that passive that gives resistance for like 4 seconds. My heals were almost the same because it's only 8% more healing received. If I go into stealth for like 2 seconds in a duel and then hit rally after it's been active for 10 seconds I get all my health back, then hit vigor and I'm fine. Last but not least I am a ganker so there is no point in my trying to buff up with heavy armor to protect myself if I am not engaging in open combat which is why I am using the spriggon set.

Solidsnake993

kasa-obake wrote: »

You're using Medium armor? God, you're a dying breed. Like a virgin, or a unicorn.

True words of wisdom: I saw no point in wearing heavy armor because I still took the same amount of damage in heavy armor as I do in medium armor because people have a thing known as armor penetration. My heals are not that much stronger because it's only 8% more healing. Besides, if I go into stealth for like 2 seconds and hit rally I get all of my health back instantly.

I am mostly a ganker though so there is no point of my buffing up in heavy armor in order to protect myself. That's why I am using the spriggon set.

Kutsuu

Meh I still use medium armor on all my stam builds. I just can't get into the heavy armor thing and I crutch on dodge rolls too much.

BuggeX

shild sword isnt op, its the combination with proc sets as Viper/veli/tremo and black rose

Johngo0036

When you say shield bash, are you referring to reverberating bash?

I dont think the s&B is OP,
however paired with some proc sets it is ridiculously op but then everything is,

Zenni nerfed damage in Cyrodiil to prevent people from being one shotted,
Then a year later they release a whole bunch of proc sets that make one shotting possible again,

Zenni skills and class balancing team this is an epic fail... WTF were you thinking

Armitas

I remember back in the beginning there were literally bash builds that did nothing but machine gun bash. Man this game has gone through a lot cycles in it's time.

Solidsnake993

Shield bash is still broken. Don't be mistaken for a second. It still does a lot of damage and it costs literally nothing to shield bash people. They said they fixed it but that is a lie. You may not see people shield bashing anymore (probably because it fell out of style) but there are still people that do it and yes it does hit really hard.

Solidsnake993

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5-rO8xHcnQ

Tell me again that it isn't broken. This was 7 months ago but it still works.

BuggeX

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5-rO8xHcnQ

Tell me again that it isn't broken. This was 7 months ago but it still works.

were exactly did you saw there a shildbash? do you mean shild assault, the gap closer?

if you mean the last second. its a combination out of 3 attacks, ransack, shildbash, and templars dmg proc

GreenSoup2HoT

Only thing wrong with s+b is that is gets increased weapon damage. My real only gripe with the weapon class.

The_Duke

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5-rO8xHcnQ

Tell me again that it isn't broken. This was 7 months ago but it still works.

I noticed that the 2 guys who were killed were vet 7 and level 28. Not exactly geared up to compete in Cyrodiil.

I have rocked 1h and S since day 1 of console release so Im biased regarding its damage output. It still doesnt compare to 2h as an all around weapon. You could fill a 2h bar with all 2h skills and do great. That cant be said about 1h and S. LA, ransack bash is great burst if animation cancelled but it takes more skill than wrecking blow spam.

Kutsuu

Like I said, bash in PVP (yes with battle spirit included) is usually a 1-3k damage hit depending on mitigation/crits/etc when using a 1h/shield. That's not crazy and the damage to stam ratio isn't so good unless you are investing CPs/jewelery enchants into cost reduction. It costs about 1k stam with 1h/shield passives. It can hit a lot higher if you interrupt a cast time or channel, but I think that's perfectly fair.

ForsakenSin

bellanca6561n wrote: »

And for our next hot topic: Why is the Yugo so OP?

AHAHAHAHAHA

OHHH THAT MADE ME LAUGHT

I wonder how many people got that joke LOL